The REAL reason people AFK ranked matches

[Buzzbugs.1236]

Win with top stats - 11 pips

Lose with top stats - 4 pips

Lose while AFK - 3 pips

There is a 1 pip difference between playing and AFKing in a seemingly losing game. Since that is the reason most people AFK matches (because they assume it's a lost cause). There should be better rewards for participating regardless of the match outcome.

I propose we give additional pips for active participation in a losing game. The end result should look something like this;

Win with top stats - 11 pips

Lose with top stats - 7-8 pips

Lose while AFK - 3 pips

Players will still be incentivized to win, because they will still get overall more pips by winning. But can still earn pips by doing a lot of effort and losing. And AFKing should be bottom of the barrel..

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Not the first time that idea was brought up. 

I doubt that afkers would start playing again. 

But on the other hand, I could just go into a pointless 1v1, farming healing done for an extra pip. 🤔 

[Last Crab.6054]

no pips for loss unless within 100 points, afk fixed

if the matches are TRULY balanced, they should be within 100 points

Edited January 25 by Last Crab.6054

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Win with top stats - 11 pips

Lose with top stats - 4 pips

Lose while AFK - 3 pips

There is a 1 pip difference between playing and AFKing in a seemingly losing game. Since that is the reason most people AFK matches (because they assume it's a lost cause). There should be better rewards for participating regardless of the match outcome.

I propose we give additional pips for active participation in a losing game. The end result should look something like this;

Win with top stats - 11 pips

Lose with top stats - 7-8 pips

Lose while AFK - 3 pips

Players will still be incentivized to win, because they will still get overall more pips by winning. But can still earn pips by doing a lot of effort and losing. And AFKing should be bottom of the barrel..

Yea, each top stat should give 1 pip extra

[Last Crab.6054]

1 minute ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Yea, each top stat should give 1 pip extra

no extra pips for stats on the loser team

[arazoth.7290]

2 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

no extra pips for stats on the loser team

Adding 1 pip extra per top stat gives team reason to play more and differentiate between afk farms getting lot less.

But I guess you're on the bot afk farm side, since you heavy defend it....

[Buzzbugs.1236]

1 hour ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

no pips for loss unless within 100 points, afk fixed

if the matches are TRULY balanced, they should be within 100 points

Right.

I think rewards should be tied to overall participation rather than a win/loss.

Only ranking should be heavily affected by a win/loss, as that is the competitive nature of it. But I think everyone should be rewarded for their participation.

[arazoth.7290]

So if you have now a unbalanced matchmaking but with a willingly team till the end that active engages the fight. But in the end you just get max 150-500 lose, because they were overal vs your team too strong. 

This should give no extra pips for each top stats???(rhetoric question).

So they get atm now as close the same as afkers. They might be more willingly to lose/afk/rage logg out because of that next times. This just creates more of a cycle of these...

So give 1 extra pip/top stat

[Last Crab.6054]

13 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Adding 1 pip extra per top stat gives team reason to play more and differentiate between afk farms getting lot less.

But I guess you're on the bot afk farm side, since you heavy defend it....

losing no pips, how does what you claim make any sense....

you are on the bot team, HS

[Last Crab.6054]

2 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

So if you have now a unbalanced matchmaking but with a willingly team till the end that active engages the fight. But in the end you just get max 150-500 lose, because they were overal vs your team too strong. 

This should give no extra pips for each top stats???(rhetoric question).

So they get atm now as close the same as afkers. They might be more willingly to lose/afk/rage logg out because of that next times. This just creates more of a cycle of these...

So give 1 extra pip/top stat

no, if you lose, you can get nothing....

unless you are withing 100 points of the winner...then and only then should you get pips and extra pips for stats

anything else is botter paradise

[arazoth.7290]

6 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

no, if you lose, you can get nothing....

unless you are withing 100 points of the winner...then and only then should you get pips and extra pips for stats

anything else is botter paradise

Matches also between 300-400 points are also close but openent was just better. And noting about bots for that...

[arazoth.7290]

10 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

losing no pips, how does what you claim make any sense....

you are on the bot team, HS

Nah what you suggest is.

 

Btw HS??? If it is the German offensive word I think it is??? Then I am more then happy to report for that 😂. So type the full word, if it isn't offensive meant then you have noting to fear 😁😏

[Khalisto.5780]

ppl afk cuz it takes half community sending video proof via support ticket for them to actually ban known afkers

timewise it takes almost 1 year of a player ruinning everyone's else matches to get banned

[Sigmoid.7082]

1 hour ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

no, if you lose, you can get nothing....

It's not very difficult to see how a) this could make the problem worse or b) just cause less people to play. 

[maxwelgm.4315]

I don't get why people ever suggest taking away all rewards from losses. Which game truly gives you absolutely nothing for your time nowadays? Everywhere there's at least some sort of XP/currency system (e.g LoL, Overwatch) and GW2 is no different where completing matches gives you XP in unranked. Giving out pips is mere consistency because pips are related to a progression system and not to the rank itself.

It is definitely agreeable that giving out a pip for each top stat would improve things to whoever wants to play (regardless of whether or not it even fixes the afk problem in fact). Yes top stats don't particularly say much about how much you contributed to the team victory, but it's also hard to deny they have absolutely zero impact if for instance you have dealt hundreds of thousands of dmg in a match where the enemy's top healer has healed in total less than a full HP bar. The current system equally rewards afk and trying your best, ironic since the pip system is a perfect medium to amend this issue.

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

I don't care the reason... I'm not playing the game mode because of AFKers in 9 out of 10 ranked matches... 8 years ago. It appears (based on forum posts) that it's no better.

[Shagie.7612]

The people who rage quit and afk aren't gonna stop doing it just because you take away the pips for losing, lol
They're mad, they're gonna do it regardless. Heck they're probably more likely to quit early just to try and get out of that 0 reward match sooner.

With the open world legendary armor coming, I think they should just buff how many pips you get in general. Make it faster to pick up ascended shards (tickets too but those aren't really the hard part, so meh). Who cares if spvp has fast legendary armor gain at this point. Make it a nice little perk for participating in the mode, since you can get it just by afking open world events at that point.

[Luthan.5236]

Wouldn't change a lot - increasing pips for top stats. You'd need to be sure to actually manage to get some top stats. Since they can be awarded only once (unless more than one player has done the same amount) it might also encourage bad playstyles. For instance just capping and running away to recap later - to farm the "offensive" stat. (When defending usually is better unless you just go for a decap tactically as a class with fast movement.)

They hopefully add more game modes ... one day. I'd love to see a 10 vs 10 with mechanics that actually force you to split (so it won't be too zergy) while trying to play tactically. Anything that goes beyong the "just combat skills are important" is interesting to me. That is why I still prefer conquest over the death matches in mini seasons. WvW  unfortunately delivers onyl zerging and no compact matches - with the thing running for a week it does not feel like it is "your" win or loss.

Somethign 10-20 vs 10-20 and a target average match duration of 20-40 minutes (set the max to 45-60 maybe) would be fine and might even work better as hotjoin - for 20 vs 20 it would not be that important if one or two players left or join during a running match. (The custom arenas nowadays are pretty dead.) Bigger than 20 per team ... not so good I think. (There are other games where this works better and for much bigger we have the WvW here already.)

[draxynnic.3719]

This has been raised before. The problem is that it would incentivize farming a top stat rather than actually doing what is needed to maximise the chance of winning the game.

Bonus pips for a close match was a good step, perhaps take that a little further? Instead of being a flat +2 for getting over 400 but still losing, make the pips awarded for a loss 2 plus one pip per every 100 points your team earned (up to seven if it's one of those super-close games where both teams finish at or over 500). That way, there's always an incentive to try to do just a bit better even if you think just getting to 400 is out of reach.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

People afk ranked matches because there's no lasting repercussion for them not helping, like being ejected from a premade. Getting lazy or spiteful people when you force the game to pull people at random is unavoidable.

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

This has been raised before. The problem is that it would incentivize farming a top stat rather than actually doing what is needed to maximise the chance of winning the game.

Farming a top stat would be providing a critical aspect needed to win that match in most cases, though. 

How do you farm top kills? Damage? Healing? Offense? Defense?

Doing one of those things or multiple of them is providing a necessary team component by default. 

If you get queued with a druid that you know is going to succeessfully camp far all game, adapt and win the match instead of getting outnumbered and blaming them not being flexible. If your ele is healbotting, someone has to be hitting them or their teammates, so they will probably be in a ton of firefights. If your thief is decapping their kitten off, adapt and push where the thief isnt in groups.

I understand the arguments point but I still think rewarding people for bringing a piece of a successful comp is worth investigating. 

 

Edited January 25 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[draxynnic.3719]

7 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

People afk ranked matches because there's no lasting repercussion for them not helping, like being ejected from a premade. Getting lazy or spiteful people when you force the game to pull people at random is unavoidable.

Farming a top stat would be providing a critical aspect needed to win that match in most cases, though. 

How do you farm top kills? Damage? Healing? Offense? Defense?

Doing one of those things or multiple of them is providing a necessary team component by default. 

If you get queued with a druid that you know is going to succeessfully camp far all game, adapt and win the match instead of getting outnumbered and blaming them not being flexible. If your ele is healbotting, someone has to be hitting them or their teammates, so they will probably be in a ton of firefights. If your thief is decapping their kitten off, adapt and push where the thief isnt in groups.

I understand the arguments point but I still think rewarding people for bringing a piece of a successful comp is worth investigating. 

 

Not really. Someone farming damage, kills, or even healing might be fighting miles away from the capture points, allowing the enemy team to collect points uncontested. An earlier poster already explained one way offense can be farmed without actually contributing - another is to get stuck fighting an enemy bunker build you know you can't defeat and choosing not to rotate elsewhere - offense counts as long as you're on an enemy point from what I've observed, it doesn't matter if it's being fully offset by an enemy player holding the point. Defence is possibly the hardest to cheese because you only score defence points while on a point your team owns but which an enemy is contesting, but I can see the potential there. Players might even seek to sabotage other players on their team to make sure they retain a top stat.

There are also times where the best thing you can do for your team is to essentially flex between roles, fighting with the team some of the time while capping/decapping opportunistically at others while the dedicated decapper is elsewhere. Such an approach has a high likelihood of scoring well, but not being the top scorer, in most or even all categories. Does that player deserve to get nothing? Is it good for a losing game to turn into a competition for top stats among the team rather than doing everything they can to try to turn it around?

Similarly, if a player has been genuinely trying their best the whole game but just happens to be the weakest player on their team, do they deserve to get nothing?

I think my proposal is a far more effective way of encouraging players on the currently losing team to stay in the game without creating perverse incentives. If your primary incentive is to do whatever you can to help your team score more points... well, that's how you win games.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

16 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Not really. Someone farming damage, kills, or even healing might be fighting miles away from the capture points, allowing the enemy team to collect points uncontested. An earlier poster already explained one way offense can be farmed without actually contributing - another is to get stuck fighting an enemy bunker build you know you can't defeat and choosing not to rotate elsewhere - offense counts as long as you're on an enemy point from what I've observed, it doesn't matter if it's being fully offset by an enemy player holding the point. Defence is possibly the hardest to cheese because you only score defence points while on a point your team owns but which an enemy is contesting, but I can see the potential there. Players might even seek to sabotage other players on their team to make sure they retain a top stat.

There are also times where the best thing you can do for your team is to essentially flex between roles, fighting with the team some of the time while capping/decapping opportunistically at others while the dedicated decapper is elsewhere. Such an approach has a high likelihood of scoring well, but not being the top scorer, in most or even all categories. Does that player deserve to get nothing? Is it good for a losing game to turn into a competition for top stats among the team rather than doing everything they can to try to turn it around?

Similarly, if a player has been genuinely trying their best the whole game but just happens to be the weakest player on their team, do they deserve to get nothing?

I think my proposal is a far more effective way of encouraging players on the currently losing team to stay in the game without creating perverse incentives. If your primary incentive is to do whatever you can to help your team score more points... well, that's how you win games.

You continue to make a valid argument. Fair points.

[Waffles.5632]

None of this matters because the actual reason people AFK is because Anet doesn't enforce anything in pvp anymore. It has been abandoned for quite some time. To fix pvp they would need a dedicated team with a good lead dev and they would have to immediately and severely crack down on the top offenders to send a message loud and clear.

The only time I have seen something actually happen, and even then it's rare, is if someone says a slur in chat, then you can report, and the chat logs get sent over. Even then it's not a ban though, just a suspension. And nothing stopping the offender from making alt accounts, they might already even have several anyways because Anet allows it. (because they profit from it)

You can talk democracy, pips and fairness all you guys want but when the enforcers (Anet) don't do their job, criminals run amuck always. The harsh reality is pvp makes anet so little money, it is just not worth them spending resources on it anymore.

I ask only one question; When was the last time we got a new pvp map?

 

I would love for me to be wrong on this btw. If Anet announced some pvp focus and changes, alongside some new maps or new pvp content, I would most likely reinstall, but as it is now, as much as it saddens me, pvp in gw2 is a just a complete waste of time. A death spiral.

Edit: Remember, on GW2 launch, GW2 pvp was slated to be an E-Sport that Anet was hoping would rival League or Starcraft. Oh how far we have fallen.

Edited January 26 by Waffles.5632

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Just remove the 3 pips for losing

Top stat pips can stay because you need to participate to get them

Near-victory pips can stay because that means everyone tried. Majority of the time game won't end with 80% of winning team's score if one team is fighting 4v5

But the 3 pips for doing absolutely nothing need to go and the feckless indolents that knowingly waste everyone else's time right along with them. The reward for doing nothing should be nothing

[draxynnic.3719]

On 1/27/2024 at 10:35 AM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Just remove the 3 pips for losing

Top stat pips can stay because you need to participate to get them

Near-victory pips can stay because that means everyone tried. Majority of the time game won't end with 80% of winning team's score if one team is fighting 4v5

But the 3 pips for doing absolutely nothing need to go and the feckless indolents that knowingly waste everyone else's time right along with them. The reward for doing nothing should be nothing

You still hurt a lot of people who are actually trying that way. Heck, you might get people afking faster - why spend any effort when it's already apparant you're likely to get nothing however hard you try?

There probably could be some systems incorporated to detect afking, though, such as if someone stays in base for more than a reasonable period of time, or if they don't move from a location, score damage, or score capture points within a reasonable timeframe. Wouldn't be a perfect system, but if you can make it so that gaming the system is at least harder, people would be more likely to think that they might as well play properly. Hardest part would be distinguishing between legitimate cap point guarding and AFKing on point, but hey, at least the latter might slow down a decap by a few seconds, which is more than they'll achieve AFKing in base.