Speed of Sand is the worst trait in the entire game and I can prove it.

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, Leo G.4501 said:

Perhaps think more intuitively then? If you're saying that Speed of Sand "compensates", that typically means give back in recognition for a loss. The exaggeration is to highlight that no, Mirage Cloak isn't useless but rather has it's own niche of advantages. You are exchanged the advantages of normal dodge for Mirage Cloak and you're "rebated" the exchange by letting you keep the advantages of Mirage Cloak while providing you speed during Mirage Cloak.

Arguing that it's a kitten GM minor? Sure. Arguing that it's just giving you back regular dodge? That's just not how that equation works. Comparing to other GM minors? That's just petty and a waste of breath.

Then you are reading too deep into it. Other specs with unique mechanics are locked into their specs respectfully which have traits that enhance those unique spec mechanics, however, Speed of Sand does not. People often think that Mirage Cloak is a unique mechanic when it is a stationary dodge without the distance of it, the unique aspect of the class is that there is ambush where you can attack during your dodge which isn't even unique to Mirage. For example, Daredevils have 3 dodges that can damage, Vindicators are another example of this. The "invulnerability" that mirage cloak gives is the same as the "invulnerability" of a dodge. Still, I'm not sure if you are aware that a normal dodge can be increased by jump dodging which mirage can't do? Again tell me you know nothing about mirage without telling me you know nothing about mirage. This isn't an argument or debate it is a simple fact that this trait is complete garbage and Anet at it's current state of balancing knows nothing about mirage or mesmer for that matter because the original devs that worked on this class is no longer at the company.

 

[Leo G.4501]

7 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Then you are reading too deep into it. Other specs with unique mechanics are locked into their specs respectfully which have traits that enhance those unique spec mechanics, however, Speed of Sand does not. People often think that Mirage Cloak is a unique mechanic when it is a stationary dodge without the distance of it, the unique aspect of the class is that there is ambush where you can attack during your dodge which isn't even unique to Mirage. For example, Daredevils have 3 dodges that can damage, Vindicators are another example of this. The "invulnerability" that mirage cloak gives is the same as the "invulnerability" of a dodge. Still, I'm not sure if you are aware that a normal dodge can be increased by jump dodging which mirage can't do? Again tell me you know nothing about mirage without telling me you know nothing about mirage. This isn't an argument or debate it is a simple fact that this trait is complete garbage and Anet at it's current state of balancing knows nothing about mirage or mesmer for that matter because the original devs that worked on this class is no longer at the company.

 

See? This is some gaslighting kitten right here.

I know what Mirage cloak does. I know what normal dodges do and I know what Vindi and Daredevils do. You try to play this gatekeep argument and label someone as "not a Mirage player" while obfuscating stuff that Mirage cloak CAN do like dodge while channeling (so while attacking and rezzing and interacting with mechanics)...but I'M the "not a Mirage player"? Go sit down. While DD and Vindi (and Warrior and Elementalist...you forgot those...if you're going to own ppl, why not be thorough?) can deal damage at the end of a dodge roll, they don't get to pick the attack or complete the attack, they have to interrupt themselves and use the "dodge attack" so it's not the same thing and it's disingenuous to try and label them as the same.

So next time, before you try to school someone on who plays what, stop lying to the audience reading the thread. That's all I asked past my first post. I don't think I'm being unclear or misrepresenting anything here.

[phokus.8934]

@Cal Cohen.2358

Odd design choice to grant Feel My Warth superspeed so can we get superspeed back with Mirage?

[Nimon.7840]

Do you really want to discuss useless traits?

I mean, look at nourishing ashes, feed from corruption and sand savant, all in the scourge trait line.

You might argue, that you don't have to select them, but that's even worse imo.

Or basically every trait that involves deaths carapace in the death magic trait line, which can  grief other players in instanced pve, due to them giving toughness.

There are a lot of very useless traits.

[Salt Mode.3780]

2 hours ago, Leo G.4501 said:

See? This is some gaslighting kitten right here.

I know what Mirage cloak does. I know what normal dodges do and I know what Vindi and Daredevils do. You try to play this gatekeep argument and label someone as "not a Mirage player" while obfuscating stuff that Mirage cloak CAN do like dodge while channeling (so while attacking and rezzing and interacting with mechanics)...but I'M the "not a Mirage player"? Go sit down. While DD and Vindi (and Warrior and Elementalist...you forgot those...if you're going to own ppl, why not be thorough?) can deal damage at the end of a dodge roll, they don't get to pick the attack or complete the attack, they have to interrupt themselves and use the "dodge attack" so it's not the same thing and it's disingenuous to try and label them as the same.

So next time, before you try to school someone on who plays what, stop lying to the audience reading the thread. That's all I asked past my first post. I don't think I'm being unclear or misrepresenting anything here.

Quite hilarious saying that I am lying to the audience when you are creating a straw man by saying mirage cloak is so unique therefore the trait is fine as is. The whole thread was about how useless that trait is not a debate about whether or not mirage cloak is strong weak etc or how unique it is therefore that trait should be ignored. Seems to me someone is not understanding the thread at all...the reason why I listed Daredevils and Vindicators is that their traits enhance the performance of their spec mechanics which I had mentioned but again you failed to understand by listing stuff like Warrior and Elementalist, please read posts more carefully because you failed to do so the first time. Oh and also I never said anything along the lines of you not being a Mirage player, again stop looking too deep into things and I'll say it again try to read things more carefully.

 

1 hour ago, Nimon.7840 said:

Do you really want to discuss useless traits?

I mean, look at nourishing ashes, feed from corruption and sand savant, all in the scourge trait line.

You might argue, that you don't have to select them, but that's even worse imo.

Or basically every trait that involves deaths carapace in the death magic trait line, which can  grief other players in instanced pve, due to them giving toughness.

There are a lot of very useless traits.

The traits you have listed are all selectable ones, however, the one mentioned here is locked, for scourge, the "minor grandmaster" trait is Blood as Sand which in PvE reduces all damage taken by 15% and in WvW/PvP 7% when you have a shade active.  There are many useless selectable traits but again you can choose something else in the placement of it...the list goes on and on for every spec if we were to list all core/spec selectable traits, but that isn't what this thread is about.

Edited February 20 by Salt Mode.3780

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hi Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil.

Regards.

[Leo G.4501]

7 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Quite hilarious saying that I am lying to the audience when you are creating a straw man by saying mirage cloak is so unique therefore the trait is fine as is. The whole thread was about how useless that trait is not a debate about whether or not mirage cloak is strong weak etc or how unique it is therefore that trait should be ignored. Seems to me someone is not understanding the thread at all...the reason why I listed Daredevils and Vindicators is that their traits enhance the performance of their spec mechanics which I had mentioned but again you failed to understand by listing stuff like Warrior and Elementalist, please read posts more carefully because you failed to do so the first time. Oh and also I never said anything along the lines of you not being a Mirage player, again stop looking too deep into things and I'll say it again try to read things more carefully.

Misrepresentation. I didn't say Mirage cloak is so unique that Speed of Sand is fine as is. In fact, I said a more neutral statement (can't believe I have to reword this AGAIN for you) that Mirage Cloak gives its own distinct advantages over other dodges so labeling the traits as "fixing" what Mirage Cloak took (i.e. compensating it) is a misrepresentation. Furthermore, picking out traits from other professions to compare it with is the strawman.

tl;dr: If you want to say Speed of Sand is poopy and you'd like to suggest additions to it, that's fine. Trying to portray Mirage  and Mirage Cloak as in a bad position despite us knowing how stacked it is hilarious but you don't seem to be laughing.

Also, no, I don't think you understand the purpose of traits and specs. There is no distinction between Daredevil's, Vindicators, Warrior's and Elementalist's traited dodge effects beyond the literal outcomes [EDIT] of being able to attack while dodging[/EDIT]. Trying to infer some intellectual high ground in cherry picking examples won't work on me.

And sure, I'll ignore the whole accusations of not being a Mirage player. Still, I implore you to show some tact rather than stooping to indirectly insulting people by inferring what they do and don't know. At the very least, hold your assumptions for someone who *actually* doesn't know some of how the game works.

7 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

The traits you have listed are all selectable ones, however, the one mentioned here is locked, for scourge, the "minor grandmaster" trait is Blood as Sand which in PvE reduces all damage taken by 15% and in WvW/PvP 7% when you have a shade active.  There are many useless selectable traits but again you can choose something else in the placement of it...the list goes on and on for every spec if we were to list all core/spec selectable traits, but that isn't what this thread is about.

Going on a basic intuitive hunch, I believe the person you're quoting is making the argument that "you can't avoid it" or "you're locked into the trait" itself is not a foundation for an argument. All that is saying is Speed of Sand is free. That's it. You're not altering the spec because you're locked into it. Therefore, Speed of Sand should probably be treated as such: a free trait. What goes in these free traits is going to depend on how stacked the spec is, even moreso for especs.

Edited February 20 by Leo G.4501

[Obtena.7952]

Comparisons between class toolsets are not a proof of anything because the classes aren't intended to do the same thing or have their tools work the same way. That's going to be an even MORE true in the case of Mirage that has an obviously intended alternative design for it's dodge skill compared to the dodge standard of other classes. 

But par for the course for certain people in the thread to accuse others of not playing the class when they are disagreed with. 

 

Edited February 21 by Obtena.7952

[Geronmy.3298]

27 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Comparisons between class toolsets are not a proof of anything because the classes aren't intended to do the same thing or have their tools work the same way. That's going to be an even MORE true in the case of Mirage that has an obviously intended alternative design for it's dodge skill compared to the dodge standard of other classes. 

But par for the course for certain people in the thread to accuse others of not playing the class when they are disagreed with. 

 

I mean, most people accepted the downside of MC because you could dodge while inmboilized or cc'd, so you could make the case for it being superior. They took that out so right now is just worse than a regular dodge.

And you can 100% make comparisons between the specs, that's what balance is about. Figure out what every class can do and what they can't and try to find an equilibrium. This time is about a mechanic and not just numbers.

[Waffles.5632]

This is the only thread where I have felt the need to used the confused emoji because some of these responses are absolutely baffling. Not only have I shown how the average grandmaster minor is either a 10-15% damage buff, or a 25% MS speed utility, but I and others have explained how Speed of Sand doesn't actually do anything in it's current iteration. Let that sink in. We have a grandmaster minor that just restores baseline functionality.

That's it. No buff. It just puts us on the same line as everyone else. Furthermore, Mirage Cloak no longer works through CC, which was the biggest advantage it ever had, and this change was solely made for PvP/WvW to allow Mirage to have two dodges again in those game modes. Before that, Mirage was only one dodge for ~3yrs. This change was a straight nerf to functionality in PvE because Mirages got nothing to compensate and instead we were literally told by CMC that "It's not a big deal in PvE since there isn't that much CC so it's okay." This bit was said candidly during the live stream where they announced Mirage getting second dodge back.

 

 

Definitely some bad faith actors in here but it doesn't matter. Speed of Sand is the worst trait in the entire game. There is no debate. If Mirage was an elite for Ele, Speed of Sand would have already gotten reworked by now. That is the truth.

And yes you can compare traits directly across classes that occupy the same slots. That is HOW you should compare so you can see outliers of archaic design such as Speed of Sand. This game is more streamlined than it has ever been, with every class now being able to perform every single role and come the new weapons in ~3weeks, they will be able to provide every single boon as well. To all the people spamming strawman buzz word, google what projection is, because you are the people trying to strawman.

 

Lastly, and most importantly, Vindicator dodge already increases your movement speed, yet they don't need a grandmaster minor trait for it.... hmmmmm...... HMMMMMMMM................🤔

Don't believe me? You can easily test this by strafing left or right, and then dodging on Vindi. Literally, same functionality as Speed of Sand, for the same exact purpose, so Vindicators can dodge out of AOE's.

The evidence, and precedent is already here. Hopefully a dev sees this thread and makes some appropriate changes, but I have done my part.

Ciao~ 👋

 

 

Edited February 21 by Waffles.5632

[Salt Mode.3780]

6 hours ago, Leo G.4501 said:

Misrepresentation. I didn't say Mirage cloak is so unique that Speed of Sand is fine as is. In fact, I said a more neutral statement (can't believe I have to reword this AGAIN for you) that Mirage Cloak gives its own distinct advantages over other dodges so labeling the traits as "fixing" what Mirage Cloak took (i.e. compensating it) is a misrepresentation. Furthermore, picking out traits from other professions to compare it with is the strawman.

tl;dr: If you want to say Speed of Sand is poopy and you'd like to suggest additions to it, that's fine. Trying to portray Mirage  and Mirage Cloak as in a bad position despite us knowing how stacked it is hilarious but you don't seem to be laughing.

Also, no, I don't think you understand the purpose of traits and specs. There is no distinction between Daredevil's, Vindicators, Warrior's and Elementalist's traited dodge effects beyond the literal outcomes [EDIT] of being able to attack while dodging[/EDIT]. Trying to infer some intellectual high ground in cherry picking examples won't work on me.

And sure, I'll ignore the whole accusations of not being a Mirage player. Still, I implore you to show some tact rather than stooping to indirectly insulting people by inferring what they do and don't know. At the very least, hold your assumptions for someone who *actually* doesn't know some of how the game works.

Going on a basic intuitive hunch, I believe the person you're quoting is making the argument that "you can't avoid it" or "you're locked into the trait" itself is not a foundation for an argument. All that is saying is Speed of Sand is free. That's it. You're not altering the spec because you're locked into it. Therefore, Speed of Sand should probably be treated as such: a free trait. What goes in these free traits is going to depend on how stacked the spec is, even moreso for especs.

Again you don't seem to grasp the idea that both daredevil and vindicator are both specs that have unique dodges likewise a mirage except their dodges have innate speed buffed into their dodges. Both ele and warriors do not have the same in terms of how their dodges work, again this whole thing wasn't about mirage cloak it was about the trait that should've been baseline for mirage. The reason why I mention vindicator is because when mirage got their dodge nerfed to 1 they released vindicator to solidify that one dodge will be fine therefore mirage should only need 1 dodge in competitive play, this was quickly changed when they decided to give vindicator 2 dodges and much later on mirage with 2 in competitive play. It's even more damning that a trait that we can't swap out is occupying a slot that could be potentially something else its as simple as that. Dodge mechanic is baseline for all classes regardless of what unique effects that tie to it, this is evident when they decided to go with one dodge and later finding out that it didn't work the way they wanted to because the game was built upon 2 dodges. 

 

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Comparisons between class toolsets are not a proof of anything because the classes aren't intended to do the same thing or have their tools work the same way. That's going to be an even MORE true in the case of Mirage that has an obviously intended alternative design for it's dodge skill compared to the dodge standard of other classes. 

But par for the course for certain people in the thread to accuse others of not playing the class when they are disagreed with. 

 

Dodge is baseline for all classes, it is a core mechanic therefore in this case should be compared. It's hilarious that people think that this is a class issue when it is a base mechanic issue that other classes do not have issues with but 1, but whenever it comes to Mesmers it is perfectly fine the way it is. 

 

Again people can play a certain class but not understand how things work. Quite hilarious how people seem to think just because you play the class you understand fundamentally how the class works. It's like I know how to cook food therefore I am a chef...

[Obtena.7952]

14 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Dodge is baseline for all classes, it is a core mechanic therefore in this case should be compared. 

True dodge is baseline ... but how it's implemented on Mirage is unique. So no, it doesn't make sense to compare its implementation to other classes, EVEN the classes that also have uniquely implemented dodges. Why? because what other classes do have no bearing on how Mirage works. 

Should the trait be baseline for Mirage? Seems no one asked themselves why it wasn't in the first place. "Anet, why do I have to pay a trait to mimic a feature of the standard dodge implementation when it's obvious you want me to have it?" 

I'm going to bet the answer is related to how Mirage dodge is coded. Standard dodge is a movement skill. Mirage dodge might not be. So is the trait the worst? It's not good, but not because of what other classes do but because it costs a trait slot for something that is obviously intended to mimic an innate feature of the standard dodge. 

 

 

Edited February 21 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

14 hours ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

I mean, most people accepted the downside of MC because you could dodge while inmboilized or cc'd, so you could make the case for it being superior. They took that out so right now is just worse than a regular dodge.

And you can 100% make comparisons between the specs, that's what balance is about. Figure out what every class can do and what they can't and try to find an equilibrium. This time is about a mechanic and not just numbers.

No hold on. Balance is not about making comparisons between specs or believing whatever you think it might be.

If you really want to know what 'balance is about', then read some patch notes because Anet tells you what balance is about there. 

Edited February 21 by Obtena.7952

[Salt Mode.3780]

Here we go the pretend white knight that is trying to defend things that aren't there just to find some sort of argument to win but instead looking like a fool. If they can remove a dodge from mirage and reinstate it, it is base coding for all dodges. Having innate speed implemented into the dodge isn't far-fetched as unique dodges like vindiator can have baseline speed attached to it. Just stop while you are behind.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

... trying to defend things ...

That makes no sense. My point has nothing to do with defending anything.

No one asks WHY the current situation exists. They simply conclude the current situation is some mistake that needs to be fixed. Asking yourself why is a pretty significant thing to do if you want to make a suggestion that situation be fixed.

Again ... if Anet wants Mirage to mimic some sort of behaviour of the standard dodge and did they that outside the dodge mechanic with a built-in traitline for Mirage ... then it probably is not unreasonable to conclude that their is a reason they went out of their way to do that implementation. Even if the best we can do is make assumptions about why they did that, it's better than not thinking about it at all and concluding Anet has no reasons to do so. 

Furthermore, any notion that the trait should be baseline makes no sense. It's an intrinsic trait that you always have as a Mirage, so it's effectively baseline already. 

The trait is bad? Yup, but not for the reasons people are saying while the suggestions to address it ignore whatever the reasons are it is this way. 

Frankly, I think people are completely missing the reason this trait is bad. It's bad because Anet sells you a spec based on a unique dodge mechanic ... then address a deficiency with that mechanic by tacking on a trait that mimics the standard dodge functionality. Basically, the trait downgrades the playstyle of a unique dodge, which is the whole selling point with Mirage in the first place. 

Edited February 21 by Obtena.7952

[Leo G.4501]

16 hours ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

And you can 100% make comparisons between the specs, that's what balance is about. Figure out what every class can do and what they can't and try to find an equilibrium. This time is about a mechanic and not just numbers.

Reread what they said.

They said "Comparisons between class toolsets are not a proof of anything". CLASSES. I know things get confused because people keep calling classes classes instead of professions so we have these odd equivalencies, mix of terms, categories, etc. The argument being made is comparing across professions shouldn't be proof of anything then you come in saying you can compare across specs. Let that sink in.

 

16 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

This is the only thread where I have felt the need to used the confused emoji because some of these responses are absolutely baffling. Not only have I shown how the average grandmaster minor is either a 10-15% damage buff, or a 25% MS speed utility, but I and others have explained how Speed of Sand doesn't actually do anything in it's current iteration. Let that sink in. We have a grandmaster minor that just restores baseline functionality.

That's it. No buff. It just puts us on the same line as everyone else. Furthermore, Mirage Cloak no longer works through CC, which was the biggest advantage it ever had, and this change was solely made for PvP/WvW to allow Mirage to have two dodges again in those game modes. Before that, Mirage was only one dodge for ~3yrs. This change was a straight nerf to functionality in PvE because Mirages got nothing to compensate and instead we were literally told by CMC that "It's not a big deal in PvE since there isn't that much CC so it's okay." This bit was said candidly during the live stream where they announced Mirage getting second dodge back.

 

 

Definitely some bad faith actors in here but it doesn't matter. Speed of Sand is the worst trait in the entire game. There is no debate. If Mirage was an elite for Ele, Speed of Sand would have already gotten reworked by now. That is the truth.

And yes you can compare traits directly across classes that occupy the same slots. That is HOW you should compare so you can see outliers of archaic design such as Speed of Sand. This game is more streamlined than it has ever been, with every class now being able to perform every single role and come the new weapons in ~3weeks, they will be able to provide every single boon as well. To all the people spamming strawman buzz word, google what projection is, because you are the people trying to strawman.

 

Lastly, and most importantly, Vindicator dodge already increases your movement speed, yet they don't need a grandmaster minor trait for it.... hmmmmm...... HMMMMMMMM................🤔

Don't believe me? You can easily test this by strafing left or right, and then dodging on Vindi. Literally, same functionality as Speed of Sand, for the same exact purpose, so Vindicators can dodge out of AOE's.

The evidence, and precedent is already here. Hopefully a dev sees this thread and makes some appropriate changes, but I have done my part.

Ciao~ 👋

 

 

Congrats, you admit you're trying to troll people with reactions but also remove others' opinions and end the debate with "truth".  I won't even bother responding to you further because there's no point. I will continue to argue my point until they lock the thread however.

Ciao~ 👋

14 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Again you don't seem to grasp the idea that both daredevil and vindicator are both specs that have unique dodges likewise a mirage except their dodges have innate speed buffed into their dodges. Both ele and warriors do not have the same in terms of how their dodges work, again this whole thing wasn't about mirage cloak it was about the trait that should've been baseline for mirage. The reason why I mention vindicator is because when mirage got their dodge nerfed to 1 they released vindicator to solidify that one dodge will be fine therefore mirage should only need 1 dodge in competitive play, this was quickly changed when they decided to give vindicator 2 dodges and much later on mirage with 2 in competitive play. It's even more damning that a trait that we can't swap out is occupying a slot that could be potentially something else its as simple as that. Dodge mechanic is baseline for all classes regardless of what unique effects that tie to it, this is evident when they decided to go with one dodge and later finding out that it didn't work the way they wanted to because the game was built upon 2 dodges. 

 

Dodge is baseline for all classes, it is a core mechanic therefore in this case should be compared. It's hilarious that people think that this is a class issue when it is a base mechanic issue that other classes do not have issues with but 1, but whenever it comes to Mesmers it is perfectly fine the way it is. 

 

Again people can play a certain class but not understand how things work. Quite hilarious how people seem to think just because you play the class you understand fundamentally how the class works. It's like I know how to cook food therefore I am a chef...

Reminder: you brought up attacking while dodging as an example.

Quote

" the unique aspect of the class is that there is ambush where you can attack during your dodge which isn't even unique to Mirage. For example, Daredevils have 3 dodges that can damage, Vindicators are another example of this. "

So the argument being made that Mirage Cloak's ambush is not unique because other professions can attack while dodging too. So you're kind of defeating your own argument (because it would actually support your initial point that other professions too can attack while dodging but you're tossing away more examples) while also misrepresenting ambush attacks as just another attack.

But it sounds like you and several others have a problem with them altering the functionality of how Mirage Cloak worked. I'd be right there behind you that removing it's ability to work while immob (it shouldn't work while CC'ed tho, like stun and knockdown) just screwed up a lot of advantages of why you'd look for Mirage Cloak as a replacement for regular dodge. But guess what? You never made that argument before. You've just been going on about how this profession or that profession has unique dodges and how they get this and that trait. None of that matters tho (because keeping it a buck, Vindicator should have been stuck with 1 dodge but that's neither here nor there)...and mind you, this is all a tangent on a trait, not Mirage Cloak itself.

27 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Here we go the pretend white knight that is trying to defend things that aren't there just to find some sort of argument to win but instead looking like a fool. If they can remove a dodge from mirage and reinstate it, it is base coding for all dodges. Having innate speed implemented into the dodge isn't far-fetched as unique dodges like vindiator can have baseline speed attached to it. Just stop while you are behind.

I don't think you understand how this works. You're the one behind primarily because you have to convince the majority and the devs to implement your change or some change. You attract more flies with honey and all I have to do is show you're covered in vinegar. Both you and the OP seem very vindictive and angry despite what you're asking for isn't even that big a deal. If they did change the trait to SS, great. If they didn't, Mirage still has a good set of tools and tactics to work with. You paint a target on yourself acting hysterical and emotional when people simply have a different opinion from you. Try to work on that.

[cryorion.9532]

On 2/8/2024 at 5:35 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

Here we go.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Sand

Speed of Sand is a Minor Grandmaster trait that provides 66% movement speed for 3/4ths of a second when a Mirage gets Mirage Cloak. (I.E when they dodge)

Keep in mind Mirages dodge in place unlike normal dodging. This 66% movement speed buff was so they could "dodge out of aoes" which, is a fine concept but it is not a fine Minor Grandmaster trait.

 

Let us compare other Minor Grandmaster traits;

Berserker - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy

Spellbreaker - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attacker's_Insight

Bladesworn - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guns_and_Glory

Willbender - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Righteous_Sprint

Chronomancer - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Time_Marches_On

Reaper - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cold_Shoulder

Soulbeast - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twice_as_Vicious

Renegade - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brutal_Momentum

Vindicator - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empire_Divided

Deadeye - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Iron_Sight

Holosmith - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Laser's_Edge

 

Now double check willbender again, you see how it's a MINOR MASTER. Yes I did that on purpose. Here is actual Willbender Minor Grandmaster: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lethal_Tempo

 

As you can see, most Minor Grandmaster traits offer valuable utility or 10-15% damage buffs. Mirage literally gets the -base line- dodge speed as it's Minor Grandmaster. 🤧

If you look at Patch Notes for Speed of Sand link you will see Speed of Sand used to give superspeed. I propose Anet make Speed of Sand grant 2-3 secs of AOE superspeed in PvE and 1sec of personal superspeed in PvP/WvW. This will make Speed of Sand fun again because Mirages can make everyone Sonic for PvE, and can be Sonic in PvP/WvW for zoom zooms.

Thank you for your time.

 

Can you now compare minor adept and master traits and let's see how those are different? Maybe specializations/traitlines don't have equally distributed strenght or potency of minor traits. The trait is probably the weakest minor grandmaster trait in isolation (without context). Does that mean Mirage needs more?

Mirage Cloak is insanely strong as it doesn't interrupt your actions and you can still evade... especially when whole elite specialization is designed around this and encourages spamming Mirage Cloak for best performance. Why should MC do more/be stronger?

[Gaiawolf.8261]

On 2/18/2024 at 1:30 PM, Geronmy.3298 said:

Self report.

No need to argue anymore.

what does this mean? what does using the action cam have to do with reporting solutions to yourself? You mean just because it works really well for some people, it might not be a good solution for everyone else?

[Stalima.5490]

On 2/8/2024 at 4:35 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

Here we go.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Sand

Speed of Sand is a Minor Grandmaster trait that provides 66% movement speed for 3/4ths of a second when a Mirage gets Mirage Cloak. (I.E when they dodge)

Keep in mind Mirages dodge in place unlike normal dodging. This 66% movement speed buff was so they could "dodge out of aoes" which, is a fine concept but it is not a fine Minor Grandmaster trait.

 

Let us compare other Minor Grandmaster traits;

Berserker - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy

Spellbreaker - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attacker's_Insight

Bladesworn - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guns_and_Glory

Willbender - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Righteous_Sprint

Chronomancer - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Time_Marches_On

Reaper - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cold_Shoulder

Soulbeast - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twice_as_Vicious

Renegade - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brutal_Momentum

Vindicator - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empire_Divided

Deadeye - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Iron_Sight

Holosmith - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Laser's_Edge

 

Now double check willbender again, you see how it's a MINOR MASTER. Yes I did that on purpose. Here is actual Willbender Minor Grandmaster: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lethal_Tempo

 

As you can see, most Minor Grandmaster traits offer valuable utility or 10-15% damage buffs. Mirage literally gets the -base line- dodge speed as it's Minor Grandmaster. 🤧

If you look at Patch Notes for Speed of Sand link you will see Speed of Sand used to give superspeed. I propose Anet make Speed of Sand grant 2-3 secs of AOE superspeed in PvE and 1sec of personal superspeed in PvP/WvW. This will make Speed of Sand fun again because Mirages can make everyone Sonic for PvE, and can be Sonic in PvP/WvW for zoom zooms.

Thank you for your time.

 

I beg to differ

Mechanist: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mechanical_Genius

GG

[Batalix.2873]

On 2/18/2024 at 11:35 AM, Geronmy.3298 said:

People who actually play mirage say it's an issue. The trait itself is bad and should be made baseline and be replaced with something useful.

Oh duh I never considered but of course it should be baseline. Mirage always could have used just a little extra flavor and this is a perfect slot for it, something that actually synergizes with clones or shadowsteps.

[Cuks.8241]

Why would you make it baseline if it's so bad?

Joke aside. All minor traits are useless. They're just there, there is no choice. They could all be just removed and made baseline and it wouldn't affect anything.

[Batalix.2873]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Why would you make it baseline if it's so bad?

Joke aside. All minor traits are useless. They're just there, there is no choice. They could all be just removed and made baseline and it wouldn't affect anything.

Well the most minor of benefits to having them is a stronger sense of progression when leveling especs. You have six waypoints instead of three.

But I've also been of the opinion that level grinding is a relic of past MMOs that is actually holding GW2 back; there is more value to be had in simply starting new players with full espec kits and giving them more customization options on top of that. And given how most players just run an HP train in the span of 45 minutes, there really isn't any meaningful enjoyment of the various milestones in espec leveling.

[Yasai.3549]

I personally think Vindicator's Empire Divided is worse. 

If you're a heal build, you will never make proper use of that Power for keeping yourself (and others) topped up.
If you're DPS build you will have to out of your way to keep your health above the threshold to retain that Power bonus. 

Both situations require you to break your build's desired playstyle in order to micromanage this one trait. 

[Leo G.4501]

6 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Well the most minor of benefits to having them is a stronger sense of progression when leveling especs. You have six waypoints instead of three.

But I've also been of the opinion that level grinding is a relic of past MMOs that is actually holding GW2 back; there is more value to be had in simply starting new players with full espec kits and giving them more customization options on top of that. And given how most players just run an HP train in the span of 45 minutes, there really isn't any meaningful enjoyment of the various milestones in espec leveling.

I think it's a matter of perspective.

Sure, starting an espec on a new player and giving them options on top sounds like common sense to us veteran players, but to a noob who doesn't have the understanding of how specs work or even how GW2 functions on a general level because they're still learning stuff like the other weapons of their profession, unlocking the espec IS the kit and unlocking the traits is the customization options on top of that. Having a more intrinsic understanding how the traits affect their gameplay is good on a drip feed and having options to circumvent the drip feed is a player choice.

I didn't even roll a Revenant until Vindicator because it appealed to me as an espect...but I still enjoyed learning from scratch with the leveling experience to become accustom to Revenant as a whole...then Vindicator...then Herald. I still haven't played Renegade but that's mostly because I wanted to get back to playing Warrior and Ranger.

[Waffles.5632]

Bumping because this trait did not get addressed in the patch preview that was supposed to buff UNDER PERFORMING TRAITS.