Combo Field and Finishers

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

I like the combo field system gw2 wish some aspect would be reworked and expanded on.

What are your thoughts on it.

Edited April 5 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[Dadnir.5038]

The combo mechanic is a nice idea but, unfortunately, it lack both consitency and support from the traitlines.

Personally I would first streamline the base effects:

• Projectile/whirl finisher applying a condition based on the field.
• Blast finisher applying a boon based on the field.
• Leap finisher granting an aura based on the field (with auras all brought down to the level of fire aura)

Then create a variety of traits to support the base effects like elementalist does with auras.

• Life drain on projectile/whirl finisher (thematically fitting for necromancer/thief/revenant)
• Healing on blast (Engineer used to have it, but this is also thematically fitting for elementalist/ranger/guardian)
• Additional condition for projectile/whirl finisher (Fire magic could have a trait that add a burn, Air magic a trait that add confusion, Earth magic a trait that add bleed, Water magic a trait that add vulnerability/chill, Death magic a trait that add poison, Harbinger/Scourge traitline a trait that add torment, Duelist traitline a trait that add confusion... etc.)
• Additional boon/conditions on blast (More might for warrior, a blind for guardian, something based on the legend used for revenant... etc.)
• Effects on aura gain for professions that aren't elementalist (A revolutionary idea, right?)
• ... etc.

All of those are suitable for both minor trait and major traits based on the profession. Obviously it shouldn't be "easy" to stack to many such trait in a build.

Edited April 5 by Dadnir.5038

[Leo G.4501]

Would be nice if they did more to specialize playstyles to take into account combos and finishers.

Traits like Powerful Synergy was niche but unique. It's gone now.

Now we have other avenues to augment a build to change functions. Runes seem like free real estate to bolster a specific combo or combo field. Or a new relic that was basically Powerful Synergy. Or more traits that change the function of your fields and how combos interact with them.

[Fueki.4753]

Sadly, combos are a relic from the early days of the game.

Nowadays, they are overshadowed by boon vomit.

 

Edited April 5 by Fueki.4753

[Jedrik.3109]

Combos and finishers are highly used in spvp. They could be expanded on. I just worry about balance with this present dev team.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Just now, Jedrik.3109 said:

Combos and finishers are highly used in spvp. They could be expanded on. I just worry about balance with this present dev team.

Combos are also used in wvw but still heavily overshadowed by boons.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

What's a combo?

 

 

I kid....kinda. I've elaborated more in other threads but all I can say is that combos feel so absolutely impotent and situational that unless I have to do 3 combos for the Daily, I forget they even exist in the game. Even when I'm solo, and I spend a LOT of time solo, I don't bother with combos and that is the one time I can actually control it! I SHOULD want to combo, to throw down a combo field of some kind and then combo off that for some great effect. But there is none, and I don't care about them. 

I'm a very technical player. I'm not a meta-chasing, min-maxxer but I do spend a lot of time working on my builds and synergies. In my opinion nothing should ever stand along. Every weapon skill you have should be buffed by your traits and pair with your utilities. Combos SHOULD be right up my alley. But they're just not woth it. I wish I had a solution to this but there's nothing I can suggest that would be balanced. I think that combos need to have their effects turned WAY up...but then in big boss fights you have combos inadvertantly going off left and right just because of scale. So I'm not sure what to do about them.

[Leo G.4501]

3 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

What's a combo?

 

 

I kid....kinda. I've elaborated more in other threads but all I can say is that combos feel so absolutely impotent and situational that unless I have to do 3 combos for the Daily, I forget they even exist in the game. Even when I'm solo, and I spend a LOT of time solo, I don't bother with combos and that is the one time I can actually control it! I SHOULD want to combo, to throw down a combo field of some kind and then combo off that for some great effect. But there is none, and I don't care about them. 

I'm a very technical player. I'm not a meta-chasing, min-maxxer but I do spend a lot of time working on my builds and synergies. In my opinion nothing should ever stand along. Every weapon skill you have should be buffed by your traits and pair with your utilities. Combos SHOULD be right up my alley. But they're just not woth it. I wish I had a solution to this but there's nothing I can suggest that would be balanced. I think that combos need to have their effects turned WAY up...but then in big boss fights you have combos inadvertantly going off left and right just because of scale. So I'm not sure what to do about them.

Personally, my main issue with trying to build for combos is they (the devs) usually separate combos and combo fields to a degree. Some professions have more access to fields + combos than others while others have more fields but no combos and again others have more access to combos but lack fields. I don't have an issue with this directly, just that it hampers the effectiveness of combos in general.

To you and others: let's lay a hypothetical and you could add [x combo bonus] to a rune set as an add-on 4th and 6th bonus. What would that bonus have to look like to be worthwhile? Take into consideration that most of the unique aspect of runes were cordoned off to relics and combos would be purely 'extra', what would a hypothetical prospect for combo expansion via runes look like?

Just as a rando idea: Runes of Fire (adds 30% Might duration and 20% Burn duration) could 100% projectile combo finisher chance and 350 range to projectile combos if you have 25 might + additional 150 radius AoE short duration burn via fire projectile finisher around target. On the other hand, Rune of the Forgeman (toughness based + 50% burning duration) adds a 33% chance for a short fire aura (1 sec) on every combo'ed leap + having a fire aura reduces burn damage by 20% and combo leaping through a fire field cleanses/turns any burning you're suffering to 10% HP.

Edited April 6 by Leo G.4501

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I use them quite a bit on my ele.  One of the few unseen buffs that Ele gives to the team is that they put up constant fire fields, which gives random bits of burning on all of those projectile and whirl finishers.  Unfortunately... that isn't much.  Random bits of 1-second burns only helps in the smallest of degrees.  It is one of the complaints I have about the combo system, in that so many of the finishers just aren't of any noticeable value.

In WvW I do try to rotate so that I spam blast finishers in fire fields, and I'll occasionally blast water for more heals. 

[Bleikopf.2491]

Imho, Combos are powercrept.

Combos are one of the main legs for Ele to stand on, and with all the fields and finishers they have access to it's still not enough.
Catalyst, the spec that should be all about combos, has so little to gain from comboing alone that they simply tacked Auras on top of it because Auras actually have gotten substantial support over the years.

I remember, back in the old days of WvW, where you blasted Water fields on regroup and leapt through Frozen Ground for the Frost Aura..
Nowadays, Frozen Ground just gives Frost Aura by itself.

[SeTect.5918]

On 4/5/2024 at 1:23 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

The combo mechanic is a nice idea but, unfortunately, it lack both consitency and support from the traitlines.

Personally I would first streamline the base effects:

• Projectile/whirl finisher applying a condition based on the field.
• Blast finisher applying a boon based on the field.
• Leap finisher granting an aura based on the field (with auras all brought down to the level of fire aura)

Then create a variety of traits to support the base effects like elementalist does with auras.

• Life drain on projectile/whirl finisher (thematically fitting for necromancer/thief/revenant)
• Healing on blast (Engineer used to have it, but this is also thematically fitting for elementalist/ranger/guardian)
• Additional condition for projectile/whirl finisher (Fire magic could have a trait that add a burn, Air magic a trait that add confusion, Earth magic a trait that add bleed, Water magic a trait that add vulnerability/chill, Death magic a trait that add poison, Harbinger/Scourge traitline a trait that add torment, Duelist traitline a trait that add confusion... etc.)
• Additional boon/conditions on blast (More might for warrior, a blind for guardian, something based on the legend used for revenant... etc.)
• Effects on aura gain for professions that aren't elementalist (A revolutionary idea, right?)
• ... etc.

All of those are suitable for both minor trait and major traits based on the profession. Obviously it shouldn't be "easy" to stack to many such trait in a build.

Yes, yes, thanks. 

Tho the life Drain also kinda fits to ranger nowadays. Soulbeast has life siphon on poison and with untamed ranger got additional life siphon. Last patch also granted life siphon to core on cc. 

I even think one, two or more relics could be based on combos. I mean we got relic of karakosa already for blast finishers but I m also talking about enhancing the condis inflicted, auras given or other things given by combos. 

[Leo G.4501]

6 hours ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

I remember, back in the old days of WvW, where you blasted Water fields on regroup and leapt through Frozen Ground for the Frost Aura..
Nowadays, Frozen Ground just gives Frost Aura by itself.

Hah, didn't even know about that.

At the end of the day, they probably could shave back a lot of power across professions and lock more of it behind comboing but I'm sure that wouldn't be a welcomed path.

[Yasai.3549]

It feels old, clunky and unnatural to the game's natural flow, especially how Fields are plopped onto the floor and many encounters have mobile enemies. 

Before even discussing things like buffing Combos or adding Combo support, there needs to be a functionality improvement first imo. I still think Fields have a place in the game but I think by adding an additional component like a "Combo follow up" to certain skills would be great for helping players expressing their Combo finishers better without being always shackled to a Field.

Example, you cast a skill and instead of it slapping a Combo Field down, you gain a Combo Follow Up status for a few seconds that let you unleash Finishers from your position the moment you hit a skill which has a Finisher component. The major drawback is probably that your Finishers are now casting from a local position which does limit your skill expression a small bit but does allow you to be more mobile in the application. Also the fact that this is a "personal combo state" and not shared with allies. 

Edited April 8 by Yasai.3549

[Jski.6180]

All blast should have an support effect, all leaps should be an aura effect (added in an shadow aura poison aura as well as an water aura), wherels and projectiles should be condi and support ish effects (light keeps clears). Also add in an earth field blast is barrier leap is earth aura wherel/projectiles are bleeds.

Edited April 8 by Jski.6180

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I remember Pre stacking might in dungeons. Good times. 

Now I have all boons the seconds the fight starts. 

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

12 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

All blast should have an support effect, all leaps should be an aura effect (added in an shadow aura poison aura as well as an water aura), wherels and projectiles should be condi and support ish effects (light keeps clears). Also add in an earth field blast is barrier leap is earth aura wherel/projectiles are bleeds.

I agree alot to some extent. But I don't think every field should have an aura effect. Like shadow aura or water aura would remove pre-exisiting support elements to those fields, namely being able to AOE heal on a blast or AOE stealth on the blast. Maybe Water Aura to the addition of the heal would be nice interesting buff, but I would keep Smoke field blast to an AOE invis.

 

If anything, I feel like introducing new field such as AIR and EARTH into the game and give it to some of the classes that lack a diversity of auras.

Some example classes are

Warrior

Necromancer

Revenant

Thieves

Mesmers

and those that would make sense on those classes

[Jski.6180]

12 hours ago, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

I agree alot to some extent. But I don't think every field should have an aura effect. Like shadow aura or water aura would remove pre-exisiting support elements to those fields, namely being able to AOE heal on a blast or AOE stealth on the blast. Maybe Water Aura to the addition of the heal would be nice interesting buff, but I would keep Smoke field blast to an AOE invis.

 

If anything, I feel like introducing new field such as AIR and EARTH into the game and give it to some of the classes that lack a diversity of auras.

Some example classes are

Warrior

Necromancer

Revenant

Thieves

Mesmers

and those that would make sense on those classes

I think it would go a long way to letting classes have an class related aura ele should not be the only class with aura base effects even transmutation would be something cool to see on other classes. That and give ele more ability to support others better with these auras as you can feed other classes auras for there "class" aura effect hehe.

AoE stealth blasting is balance stealth leaping is not as you can chose to not to do any dmg making it impossible to realy stop ppl from pulling off stealth spam effects. That and shadow aura could be a realy cool effect for the thf class an enveloping of shadows that dose not simply hide you but also truly has an effect.

Earth field is missing for sure from the game anet gave ele poison field for there field base earth version elite spec and that was just sad. Other classes for sure should have earth fields such as an ranger maybe war.

[GoingMenthol.7281]

Earth field

Earth field should be something like Dust field, or Sand field, or Mud field:

- Leap finisher - Gain magnetic aura

- Projectile finisher - Bleeding projectiles (Abrasive bolts)

- Blast finisher - Area Barrier

(Water blast finishers heal for 1320hp + 20% healing power, so an earth field barrier could be something lower like 800 + 10%)

Skills that could possibly make a field: Dust Devil, Murky Water, Muddy Terrain, Dust Strike, Dust Storm, Sandstorm, Trail of Anguish?, Sand Swell, Manifest Sand Shade? (or make Desert Shroud turn sand shades into a field), Mud Slide, Lahar, Deploy Jade Sphere (earth)

Chaos Aura and Mesmer

Mesmer has so many ethereal fields to create a chaos aura from leaps and blasts, but most of the leap skills (4 out of 7 when not including copies of skills when playing Virtuoso) are power weapons (Swap, Phantasmal Swordsman, Mirage Thrust, Feigned Surge) that don't benefit from confusion damage, or they don't benefit from the Chaos trait lines that reward the use of chaos aura (Illusionary Membrane, Chaotic Transference). There should be a trait in Dueling that provides a benefit for power weapons gaining or sharing chaos aura (Dueling as it can benefit both Power and Condition builds

Dark Aura

Dark auras are the only aura that has no synergy with any profession. Elementalists get the four elemental auras built into their weapons, the unique ability to transmute, and multiple traits that provide benefits to auras. Guardians get one light aura trait, Mesmer gets two chaos aura traits and one weapon skill. But nothing for Dark Aura

It could go to Necromancer, Thief, or Revenant, considering they all have the theme of darkness. The profession with the most Dark fields that don't involve an elite spec is the Necromancer due to its wells, but Revenant is the only one that has access to dark fields while benefiting from the torment damage (Rift of Pain, Embrace the Darkness)

Water Aura?

On 4/5/2024 at 12:23 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

• Leap finisher granting an aura based on the field (with auras all brought down to the level of fire aura)

On 4/8/2024 at 4:28 AM, Jski.6180 said:

all leaps should be an aura effect (added in an shadow aura poison aura as well as an water aura)

How about Swirling Aura? It can provide healing similar to how Virtue of Resolve and Soothing Mist provide a source of healing, while the "when you are struck" condition could be a projectile block (like the Guild Wars 1 version) or it can provide a boon like regeneration so it heals for more in response to physical trauma

Edited April 9 by GoingMenthol.7281

[Jski.6180]

5 hours ago, GoingMenthol.7281 said:

Earth field

Earth field should be something like Dust field, or Sand field, or Mud field:

- Leap finisher - Gain magnetic aura

- Projectile finisher - Bleeding projectiles (Abrasive bolts)

- Blast finisher - Area Barrier

(Water blast finishers heal for 1320hp + 20% healing power, so an earth field barrier could be something lower like 800 + 10%)

Skills that could possibly make a field: Dust Devil, Murky Water, Muddy Terrain, Dust Strike, Dust Storm, Sandstorm, Trail of Anguish?, Sand Swell, Manifest Sand Shade? (or make Desert Shroud turn sand shades into a field), Mud Slide, Lahar, Deploy Jade Sphere (earth)

Chaos Aura and Mesmer

Mesmer has so many ethereal fields to create a chaos aura from leaps and blasts, but most of the leap skills (4 out of 7 when not including copies of skills when playing Virtuoso) are power weapons (Swap, Phantasmal Swordsman, Mirage Thrust, Feigned Surge) that don't benefit from confusion damage, or they don't benefit from the Chaos trait lines that reward the use of chaos aura (Illusionary Membrane, Chaotic Transference). There should be a trait in Dueling that provides a benefit for power weapons gaining or sharing chaos aura (Dueling as it can benefit both Power and Condition builds

Dark Aura

Dark auras are the only aura that has no synergy with any profession. Elementalists get the four elemental auras built into their weapons, the unique ability to transmute, and multiple traits that provide benefits to auras. Guardians get one light aura trait, Mesmer gets two chaos aura traits and one weapon skill. But nothing for Dark Aura

It could go to Necromancer, Thief, or Revenant, considering they all have the theme of darkness. The profession with the most Dark fields that don't involve an elite spec is the Necromancer due to its wells, but Revenant is the only one that has access to dark fields while benefiting from the torment damage (Rift of Pain, Embrace the Darkness)

Water Aura?

How about Swirling Aura? It can provide healing similar to how Virtue of Resolve and Soothing Mist provide a source of healing, while the "when you are struck" condition could be a projectile block (like the Guild Wars 1 version) or it can provide a boon like regeneration so it heals for more in response to physical trauma

I have no ideal what the effects should be i just think auras should be something that classes should have there own aura typing with the ability to use that type of aura for transmutation. Making pure aura support a real thing for the ele class.

[starlinvf.1358]

On 4/6/2024 at 1:05 AM, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

What's a combo?

 

 

I kid....kinda. I've elaborated more in other threads but all I can say is that combos feel so absolutely impotent and situational that unless I have to do 3 combos for the Daily, I forget they even exist in the game. Even when I'm solo, and I spend a LOT of time solo, I don't bother with combos and that is the one time I can actually control it! I SHOULD want to combo, to throw down a combo field of some kind and then combo off that for some great effect. But there is none, and I don't care about them. 

I'm a very technical player. I'm not a meta-chasing, min-maxxer but I do spend a lot of time working on my builds and synergies. In my opinion nothing should ever stand along. Every weapon skill you have should be buffed by your traits and pair with your utilities. Combos SHOULD be right up my alley. But they're just not woth it. I wish I had a solution to this but there's nothing I can suggest that would be balanced. I think that combos need to have their effects turned WAY up...but then in big boss fights you have combos inadvertantly going off left and right just because of scale. So I'm not sure what to do about them.

A big problem is the current boon focused meta still existed in beta; it just relied more on combos, because classes were designed with combos as a boon source.  Might was and still is too valuable with how DPS is king. So every dungeon party wanted an ele for might blast and dps. Thief or Mes for group stealth to skip, War banners for stat stacking and extra might, and Rangers if you wanted to troll with pet aggro.  

Because modern boon meta is all about max boon upkeep, the power scaling on top of the power creep makes combos weaker then auto spamming or even single skill uses in newer especs.  

combo are good for active playstyles…. which is why they killed it. In its place is more passive boon gen or boon gen built into offensive skills. 

Edited April 9 by starlinvf.1358

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

9 hours ago, GoingMenthol.7281 said:

Skills that could possibly make a field

I'd Argue that Earthshaker and Stomp could make Earth fields from warrior.

I'd honestly introduce Wind Field or Air field

Blasting it with provide SuperSpeed to everyone

OR

Provides Quickness to everyone around you

 

Leaping through it would provide a Knockdown effect, Similar to how leaping through a lightning Field causes a Daze (because the Wind Blew you hard enough it knocks you down to the ground)

or

possibly create a Wind Aura that leaves a Trail of Tailwind , people who run through the tailwind gain increasing the effect of Swiftness by 33% (does not stack with Speed relic) while enemies who try to run through it gain Cripple & Slow Condition (we call this Headwind).  Getting hit by the Aura applie the conditions previously stated, and While under the effects of the Aura you can get that increase speed despite not being in the tailwind.

2nd idea is related to Physics and aerodynamics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headwind_and_tailwind

 

[Bleikopf.2491]

10 hours ago, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

I'd Argue that Earthshaker and Stomp could make Earth fields from warrior.

I'd honestly introduce Wind Field or Air field

Blasting it with provide SuperSpeed to everyone

OR

Provides Quickness to everyone around you

 

Leaping through it would provide a Knockdown effect, Similar to how leaping through a lightning Field causes a Daze (because the Wind Blew you hard enough it knocks you down to the ground)

or

possibly create a Wind Aura that leaves a Trail of Tailwind , people who run through the tailwind gain increasing the effect of Swiftness by 33% (does not stack with Speed relic) while enemies who try to run through it gain Cripple & Slow Condition (we call this Headwind).  Getting hit by the Aura applie the conditions previously stated, and While under the effects of the Aura you can get that increase speed despite not being in the tailwind.

2nd idea is related to Physics and aerodynamics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headwind_and_tailwind

 

Honestly, to me that just sounds like powercrept Lightning Field. Instead of adding new combos, I'd prefer buffing current ones to the point where they're viable strategies to pursue again. If that means Lightning Field now gives Superspeed on Blast.. so be it. 

[Jski.6180]

On 4/10/2024 at 2:23 AM, Bleikopf.2491 said:

Honestly, to me that just sounds like powercrept Lightning Field. Instead of adding new combos, I'd prefer buffing current ones to the point where they're viable strategies to pursue again. If that means Lightning Field now gives Superspeed on Blast.. so be it. 

An earth field and bleed effects are missing from the combo effects if we are going to go new combos the game is missing an earth field. If any thing we could cut back on the field types like making water/ice field the same combo effect healing blast leap forst aura projiecal/wherel chill. Now making an lighting filed give super speed is an chose on blast swiftness realy dose not cut it these days or just make it an fury blast too.

[Echostorm.9143]

I feel that for the overwhelming majority of players combo fields are something they don't understand at all and any use of them is a happy accident.  With that in mind perhaps a refactoring might be something to talk about.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, Echostorm.9143 said:

I feel that for the overwhelming majority of players combo fields are something they don't understand at all and any use of them is a happy accident.  With that in mind perhaps a refactoring might be something to talk about.

That's almost exclusively the reason why the first thing you do in End of Dragons (after you land in Cantha) is do a tutorial. And what's in that tutorial? Movement, Defiance, and Combos, three key parts of the game that SO many players do not understand.