[Suggestions]QoL (Quality of Life) Ideas [Merged]

[Obtena.7952]

15 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

Why is it suddenly about harassment?

Isn't it equally terrible to purposefully waste the time of 4 to 9 other persons because that specific player can't be honest about their build and skill level?

because it's not about helping people ... if people want help with their build, the gear check function we need ISN'T the one where someone else gets to check the person needing help without their permission. 

If not wasting time is a concern for someone building a team, they have ways to do that without gearchecking (and anyone that thinks someone's time running a raid isn't wasted by ONLY checking gear ... is just fooling themselves). Again, I would argue that if someone wants to do fast raid runs, gear is the WORST indicator to assess for including someone in that team. 

You can argue with me all you like but these points have been covered numerous times and still no gearcheck function ingame so ... how hard does the hint need to drop for you guys?

Edited January 25, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[cyberzombie.7348]

Isn't that why Arcdps and the training ground a thing? They both give a numerical telemetry for how a build actually performs. So wouldn't just looking at gear give less data? 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yes it is ... and it's NEVER needed a gearcheck to do that in the past ... so it's NOT a reason to add it now. 

Don't confuse 'co-operation' with "you play how I tell you or you get kicked".

You really, really don't get it do you?

You, quite literally, cannot, and should not, in good faith, join a group that's set up and asking for someone to fill  the quickness role with none of the gear for quickness.  That is the opposite of cooperation and, yes, someone like that deserves to be kicked from the group before  they become a problem during the fight and waste everyone else's time.

This is akin to fake tanking in ESO where someone in a DPS role queues as tank in the dungeon finder for a 'faster daily'.
 

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

because it's not about helping people ... we don't need gearchecks for that either. 

Fractal, Raid, and Strike training groups already talk about gear.  They are generally through guild only and those people already have the builds set up and are expected to have those.  There's no need for gearcheck there because everyone present is expected to be following the current meta anyways.  Adding any kind of gear check that allows people to see the attributes on their gear would make it possible for these groups to extend out of guild because they could tell someone where they're building wrong in their build and sort out  any gear problems before they arise mid fight.

[Obtena.7952]

15 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

You really, really don't get it do you?

No I think I get it pretty good because this isn't a debate about who's opinion is right or wrong. It's about how the game works and why. You can throw all the reasons you want at me for why we need a gear check. I'm simply going to point to the reality of the game that a gearcheck doesn't exist probably for good reason that people like you simply want to ignore. The reasons you give to get it ... there are already ways to do those things without the gear check feature. 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

11 minutes ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

Isn't that why Arcdps and the training ground a thing? They both give a numerical telemetry for how a build actually performs. So wouldn't just looking at gear give less data? 

Checking gear can find potential problems with damage, sustain, boon uptime, and tanking before ArcDPS has to even be used.

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

No I think I get it pretty good because this isn't a debate about who's opinion is right or wrong. It's about how the game works. 

👌

Edited January 25, 2023 by Andifulated.3482

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

55 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No I think I get it pretty good because this isn't a debate about who's opinion is right or wrong. It's about how the game works and why. You can throw all the reasons you want at me for why we need a gear check. I'm simply going to point to the reality of the game that a gearcheck doesn't exist probably for good reason that people like you simply want to ignore. The reasons you give to get it ... there are already ways to do those things without the gear check feature. 

 

Well first, nice edit. 😜  Secondly, I've given you plenty of reasons as to why it'd be beneficial, you've not really done anything to answer those outside of "We don't need them because of how the game works" *proceeds to not elaborate further.*

[Obtena.7952]

29 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

I've given you plenty of reasons as to why it'd be beneficial, you've not really done anything to answer those outside of "We don't need them because of how the game works" *proceeds to not elaborate further.*

Yeah I know you gave plenty of reasons and I already told you, they have already been discussed at length, many times. Give all the reasons you want. I'm confident that the reasons we don't have gearchecking don't disappear because of your ability to present plenty of reasons that have heard many times already for how beneficial it would be (to who it's beneficial for though should give you a massive hint why we don't have it).

Maybe what you should be doing is thinking about the reasons it's not ingame to gain a better understanding of the game. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Rogue.8235]

19 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

If you aren't running full zerkers/vipers as a DPS you shouldn't be signing up for groups. Defensive stats do nothing in instanced PVE.

 

Didn't take long to demonstrate why a gear checker is a bad idea.  There are too many "raiders" that don't actually understand why meta builds are the meta, and continue to rely on outdated and outright incorrect information.

The arguments for a gear checker assume that everyone using it is knowledgeable.  That is far from the case.

"“A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.”

- Douglas Adams

This applies to the topic.  People here seem to think that a gear checker will be a fool-proof system to allow for easy pugging for raids.  Again, this is not the case, as demonstrated by the quoted poster above.

 

[cyberzombie.7348]

59 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

Checking gear can find potential problems with damage, sustain, boon uptime, and tanking before ArcDPS has to even be used

Fair enough, though now I'm also curious as to how it'll be different than gear pinging outside an extra u.i. window? 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

1 hour ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

You really, really don't get it do you?

You, quite literally, cannot, and should not, in good faith, join a group that's set up and asking for someone to fill  the quickness role with none of the gear for quickness.

What?

 

Harbinger requires zero boon duration for 100% Quickness uptime.

Most classes need only Firebrand runes for 100% Quickness up time (which is usually ~60% required), with maybe a few pieces of boon duration gear if any at all, depending on traits.

 

You're not going to know every possible Quickness uptime variation in the game, and that's just one boon and one small subset of builds, demonstrating the problem.

 

@ Thread:

This thread is full of many people arguing with others that they don't know the game, while showing their own lack of understanding, which is why gear checking would be a problem. I don't mean to be rude, but it astounds me how the same players keep getting ratioed yet keep replying with the same arguments.

 

Some of us have played for tens of thousands of hours on every possible class in every possible content, and have buildcrafted many builds that were thought to be garbage in the past but ended up meta once a few tweeks were made by someone with the right amount of influence.

 

The devs don't agree with you, they will never agree with you. You say the game was built upon cooperation, but it was built on altruism--there's a difference. If you came into a game like this expecting to never having to carry anyone, you simply joined the wrong game and should be playing a "real" MMO. Trying to force it to be what you want is only going to ruin it for everyone who does enjoy it for what it is.

 

Just so you know, I spend most of my time carrying people on purpose, because when I had to press F on someone to revive them at level 10 despite being a Warrior, I knew it was going to be that kind of game.

 

Please stop acting like your time in this game is a valueable resource that others are spending. You're the one playing it, you're the one investing that time. They have no responsiblity to you for you to get a return on your investment. Its nice if they do, but no one and nothing says they have, and that will never change because it goes against the very foundation of the game's design.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

27 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

Didn't take long to demonstrate why a gear checker is a bad idea.  There are too many "raiders" that don't actually understand why meta builds are the meta, and continue to rely on outdated and outright incorrect information.

The arguments for a gear checker assume that everyone using it is knowledgeable.  That is far from the case.

"“A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.”

- Douglas Adams

This applies to the topic.  People here seem to think that a gear checker will be a fool-proof system to allow for easy pugging for raids.  Again, this is not the case, as demonstrated by the quoted poster above.

 

No one thinks they're going to be fool-proof. Nothing ever is.  Even the DPS meter is misread and misinterpreted but it's still a boon for figuring out how and why specific strats breakdown in group content.

 

Also finding one example doesn't remove the benefits of it existing.

29 minutes ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

Fair enough, though now I'm also curious as to how it'll be different than gear pinging outside an extra u.i. window? 

I think this is the third or fourth time I've said this; you can't show stats on stat selectable gear by  pinging it.  Such gear shows up blank in the chat box but does have the rune showing correctly if the rune isn't legendary.

 

33 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yeah I know you gave plenty of reasons and I already told you, they have already been discussed at length, many times. Give all the reasons you want. I'm confident that the reasons we don't have gearchecking don't disappear because of your ability to present plenty of reasons that have heard many times already for how beneficial it would be (to who it's beneficial for though should give you a massive hint why we don't have it).

Maybe what you should be doing is thinking about the reasons it's not ingame to gain a better understanding of the game. 

Pardon me for not existing on this forum day in and day out.  I also already am quite aware of how this game works which is why I don't see a problem with the introduction of a gear checker at all.

The way I see it is that groups that wouldn't accept a newbie or someone with a weird build would more than likely kick someone they got from the LFG regardless of the tools used to determine who to kick.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

3 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

What?

 

Harbinger requires zero boon duration for 100% Quickness uptime.

Most classes need only Firebrand runes for 100% Quickness up time (which is usually ~60% required), with maybe a few pieces of boon duration gear if any at all, depending on traits.

 

You're not going to know every possible Quickness uptime variation in the game, and that's just one boon and one small subset of builds, demonstrating the problem.

 

@ Thread:

This thread is full of many people arguing with others that they don't know the game, while showing their own lack of understanding, which is why gear checking would be a problem. I don't mean to be rude, but it astounds me how the same players keep getting ratioed yet keep replying with the same arguments.

 

Some of us have played for tens of thousands of hours on every possible class in every possible content, and have buildcrafted many builds that were thought to be garbage in the past but ended up meta once a few tweeks were made by someone with the right amount of influence.

 

The devs don't agree with you, they will never agree with you. You say the game was built upon cooperation, but it was built on altruism--there's a difference. If you came into a game like this expecting to never having to carry anyone, you simply joined the wrong game and should be playing a "real" MMO. Trying to force it to be what you want is only going to ruin it for everyone who does enjoy it for what it is.

 

Just so you know, I spend most of my time carrying people on purpose, because when I had to press F on someone to revive them at level 10 despite being a Warrior, I knew it was going to be that kind of game.

Friend "None of the gear for quickness" includes runes.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Already possible with Gw2efficiency; anyone that wants to do that kind of thing can do that. There are already many ways to tell if players are performing so it seems kinda redundant.

An in-game feature is unlikely to be a thing; it's just not really necessary for most of this game.

  

20 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

This thread is full of many people arguing with others that they don't know the game, while showing their own lack of understanding, which is why gear checking would be a problem.

That too..... Many players are too stupid to use such a feature and misuse would create many problems. Even if opt-in is possible, some people would still judge people that opt out as guilty by default, eg. "You should have nothing to hide"

Arcdps, a tool that is far more reliable and objective than any inspect could ever be, is already heavily misused by people that don't understand how statistics work.

Edited January 25, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

The way I see it is that groups that wouldn't accept a newbie or someone with a weird build would more than likely kick someone they got from the LFG regardless of the tools used to determine who to kick.

Right, ... which goes exactly my point. If you say that the groups that have these gear requirements are likely to kick someone they got from LFG regardless of the tools available to them ... then they don't need a gear checker to create the groups they want to begin with.

Again, gear checker is not a feature that is necessary for people to create teams based on their requirements, regardless of what those requirements are. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[cyberzombie.7348]

19 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

think this is the third or fourth time I've said this; you can't show stats on stat selectable gear by  pinging it.  Such gear shows up blank in the chat box but does have the rune showing correctly if the rune isn't legendary.

That's more so an individual problem with the API. So until that gets refined first you'd still be getting blank stats. 

Exactly how that gets fixed is up to the engineers to figure out. 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

20 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Right, ... which goes exactly my point. If you say that the groups that have these gear requirements are likely to kick someone they got from LFG regardless of the tools available to them ... then they don't need a gear checker to create the groups they want to begin with. 

Again, gear checker is not a feature that is necessary for people to create teams based on their requirements, regardless of what those requirements are. 

No, wrong, because those groups are  far and few between (Don't let your bias weigh in with all the people on the forums and reddit complaining about toxic people).  Most raid LFGs, Strike LFGs, and even Fractal LFGs want experienced people with the gear equipped to fulfill the role listed.  Also DPS meters aren't necessary either, but look at how much good that brought now that the Necromancer and Ranger players won't get kicked from group for their class when the Elementalist is under performing.

 

15 minutes ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

That's more so an individual problem with the API. So until that gets refined first you'd still be getting blank stats. 

Exactly how that gets fixed is up to the engineers to figure out. 

With how much ascended gear (Trinkets, weapons, armor) has stat selection on it these days and with the amount of new prefixes that can be mixed and matched for optimization, it's kinda getting a bit obnoxious to tell someone about your build.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

No, wrong, because those groups are  far and few between

Well, you have to define what you mean by 'those groups'. Depends on how you play the game. You need to put this statement into context. 

Seems to me that whatever you mean by 'those groups', it's ignoring other parts of the game that aren't relevant to 'those groups'. Maybe if you look beyond 'those groups', you get a new perspective. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, you have to define what you mean by 'those groups'. Depends on how you play the game. You need to put this statement into context. 

Seems to me that this is indicative of your experience limiting your ability to understand the game. 

Well there are a multitude of groups that you'd find on the LFG at any given time (Generally around the times the content resets does the LFG become active)
1.) Very rarely are there groups detailing training as those tend to favor guild groups due to how disorganized and entitled some people feel they are to others time by bringing in their own makeshift builds without understanding the content.
2.) Most of the time there are groups asking for N KP (Kill Proof; N = anywhere from 5 to 20) and a specific role or roles to fill for content.  These are the groups that will give honest people a good one or two pulls if they're not causing problems.  These are the statics that are down a member and need a fill or are seeking someone who has the right mindset to join up and go.
3.) Then there's the last group listings asking for insane killproof numbers or DPS numbers.  These are the groups that will kick someone for under-performing, failing mechanics, are repeatedly out of position, or having the wrong gear (Toughness on their DPS build when they're not the tank for instance).  These are the ones that will kick someone from group that they got from the LFG for the above reasons as they have less tolerance for failure and unproven, off-meta builds.

Also are you always this way?  Insulting someone based on how they interpret the game mechanics and such?  It feels a bit weird, but you come off as a "know it all" and "I'm right, you're wrong" when you make posts.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Andifulated.3482

[Obtena.7952]

36 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

Well there are a multitude of groups that you'd find on the LFG at any given time (Generally around the times the content resets does the LFG become active)

Right so your LIMITING your discussion to your experience with LFG (because if you look beyond LFG, what you said about the the number of teams being formed is few and far between just isn't true).

Now it's clear why you think we need gearchecks. I suspected your position excluded any consideration of how teams are made outside of LFG ... and it seems I'm correct. As normal, when we drill down in these discussions, all these claims to 'benefit' the game are really just limited to the subset of players who try to form optimal teams as a PUG with strict requirements on gear and completely exclude or disregard the impact on other player who aren't.  Ask yourself where the people are that want gearcheck? Making PUG teams on LFG and relying on everyone else to make it easy for them to have exclusionary, restrictive teams. 

Again ... ask yourself why the gearcheck feature doesn't exist in GW2 ... maybe it's because it's NOT a good thing to have a feature in the game to make it easy for players to create exclusionary, restrictive teams when the game is designed around people being able to be successful playing builds they want with a wide variety of other people.  

Edited January 25, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

17 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Right so your LIMITING your discussion to your experience with LFG (because if you look beyond LFG, what you said about the the number of teams being formed is few and far between just isn't true).

Now it's clear why you think we need gearchecks. I suspected your position excluded any consideration of how teams are made outside of LFG ... and it seems I'm correct. As normal, when we drill down in these discussions, all these claims to 'benefit' the game are really just limited to the subset of players who try to form optimal teams as a PUG with strict requirements on gear and completely exclude any other player who isn't.  I mean, ask yourself why the the people that ask for a gear check are those that police the people joining their teams based on gear. Where are those people? Making PUG teams on LFG and relying on everyone else to make it easy for them to have exclusionary, restrictive teams. 

Again ... ask yourself why the gearcheck feature doesn't exist in GW2 ... maybe it's because it's NOT a good thing to have a feature in the game to make it easy for players to create exclusionary, restrictive teams when the game is designed around people being able to be successful playing builds they want with a wide variety of other people.  

I'm limiting the discussion to the LFG because this is where such a tool would be most useful to have to create groups make sure everyone's on the same page.  People who post on the LFG have the right to pick and choose who they play with.  Likewise, the LFG isn't a zero sum game.  If someone is kicked for running an untested, off-meta build, they can also take the initiative and make their own groups.

I excluded open world because, outside of a handful of meta events, build literally doesn't matter in the open world unless you're trying for something specific.  However, it'd also be somewhat useful in the open world to share gear builds with others without having to list off the 3-4 prefixes a player may be using to optimize their build around something.

I now understand you don't seem to enjoy the idea of people being able to police who is in their party.  That they should be happy with someone who's doing the bare minimum to perform their role (If that.)

[Obtena.7952]

13 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

I now understand you don't seem to enjoy the idea of people being able to police who is in their party.  That they should be happy with someone who's doing the bare minimum to perform their role (If that.)

Again, you don't seem to understand at all. I don't have a problem with policing who is in their party. People can already police who is in their party, as long as they build their teams in a manner that allows it. Again, why do people who are so particular in who they team with using the worse possible method to create their teams? Seems to me there are some people not being really honest about their motives here. That's OK ... we've figured them out a long time ago ... they just don't want to do the work to guarantee the teams that meet their requirements. 

What I have a problem with is proposing a tool that allows people to inspect players and promote an approach to playing the game that is not inline with it's philosophy. If Anet wanted people to be forced into playing optimal builds, they would have simply designed the game to impose it on the players, just like other MMOs do ... but they didn't. 

So again, you don't ask why the tool doesn't exist. You simply ignore the intent of the game and claim it would be massively beneficial and we need it. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Aeis.8519]

With how many people have anxiety about talking with others in the slightest, you'd think they'd be for anything that means they interact with players less and don't have to tell them about their build and cosmetics.

[robertthebard.8150]

5 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Ah yes the classic "I don't raid in this game, but I'm very opinionated".

The point was not to run defensive stats on a dps build, not going all the way with viper's on condi build. You could show us your incredible build for instanced content with defensive stats that outperforms the "meta" builds. Let's not rub ourselves off with this idea of "making your own" build for everything. We are not on path of exile-level of character building. 90% of your build should match the "meta" build if you want max dps output. 

And when people talk about kicking for bad gear it literally means the "hi dps" players running more toughness than the tank. It ain't WoW. The situation is different since we do not have gear treadmill over here. 

More like "very knowledgeable about how people act when they have a means of control over others".  Then there's your closing line:  "we don't have a gear treadmill over here".  We don't.  What we do have is a skill-based game that players that may or may not know anything about game mechanics want to use to control who's in their groups.  So, how will "all the right stuff" guarantee that a player gets out of AoEs?  That they use the right skills when they need to?  How do we know that they weren't carried to the gear that they can be carried to, or to the KPs?  We don't.  But, we do have a few people that are insisting that all that's required for membership is having all the right stuff.

5 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

The game is designed for people to work together. Not to leach off each other. 

If this is a major concern for you, why don't you have static groups for instanced content?  You clearly have all the right gear, so surely any static you'd want to join should love to have you, right?  Is there something we don't know?  Is there some reason you have to PuG for all your groups, and are thus concerned about other player's gear/builds?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, you don't seem to understand at all. I don't have a problem with policing who is in their party. People can already police who is in their party, as long as they build their teams in a manner that allows it. Just because LFG doesn't allow that to be done doesn't mean it should. 

What I have a problem with is a tool that allows people to inspect players. The potential for abuse and misuse is huge, especially considering being successful in this game is about knowing the encounter and how to play your build. .

I understand perfectly fine.  It's the same tired argument about potential abuse that's blown way out of proportion whenever something could potentially be used to exclude someone else from a group or content.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Just now, robertthebard.8150 said:

More like "very knowledgeable about how people act when they have a means of control over others".  Then there's your closing line:  "we don't have a gear treadmill over here".  We don't.  What we do have is a skill-based game that players that may or may not know anything about game mechanics want to use to control who's in their groups.  So, how will "all the right stuff" guarantee that a player gets out of AoEs?  That they use the right skills when they need to?  How do we know that they weren't carried to the gear that they can be carried to, or to the KPs?  We don't.  But, we do have a few people that are insisting that all that's required for membership is having all the right stuff.

Many, many players don't even know about gear.  There are countless posts both on Reddit and here about how difficult this game is and, time and time again it's either someone utilizing a raid build in solo play or, more commonly, someone using gear t hey got from level-up rewards that don't have synergy with their build at all and are severely under their character level.  Have you tried using a level 1 white rarity weapon against a level 80 mob as a level 80?  You barely do any damage.  Someone showing up with the right build and gear set up means that the chance of them knowing how to play is a lot better.