Making tactics more useful

[Erysium.4501]

Hey gamer

What do you think about making the tactics more effective and balanced?

At the moment, only certain tactics are used very often (iron guards, dragon banners). Other tactics are then often no longer worthwhile (automatic turrets, turtle banners). Sometimes I also have the impression that the tactics are very similar or are used for a similar reason. So they don't offer any real variety (fast dollies, packed dollies) and also don't really offer different strategies on how to proceed against something special. Do you have any suggestions? I would like to collect ideas here in this thread.

[Gorani.7205]

For reference: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_upgrade

The main problem is, that whether it is tactics or improvements, there hardly is an incentive to put an upgrade into a camp/tower, unless you are in a "map controlling situation". Camps outside of the NC flip far to quickly, because you will very likely lose participation for staying close to the camp to defend it (because registering "defence events" is hopelessly broken). Looking at Speedy Dollies, you need to invest round about 2g for that Improvement. An investment you hardly get back, because dollies get killed, camp flipped etc.

Why not add an additional gathering node that get improved by the amount of Improvements & Tactics slotted and that will return some of the materials you need for things like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag_of_Radiant_Energy or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag_of_Dolyak_Chow + a chance to get a chance to harvest ascended plants for feasts?

[SleepyBat.9034]

Why is there no "It's fine as it is" option?

[Erysium.4501]

1 minute ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Why is there no "It's fine as it is" option?

you are welcome to choose "yes" for the first question

[Erysium.4501]

8 minutes ago, Gorani.7205 said:

For reference: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_upgrade

The main problem is, that whether it is tactics or improvements, there hardly is an incentive to put an upgrade into a camp/tower, unless you are in a "map controlling situation". Camps outside of the NC flip far to quickly, because you will very likely lose participation for staying close to the camp to defend it (because registering "defence events" is hopelessly broken). Looking at Speedy Dollies, you need to invest round about 2g for that Improvement. An investment you hardly get back, because dollies get killed, camp flipped etc.

Why not add an additional gathering node that get improved by the amount of Improvements & Tactics slotted and that will return some of the materials you need for things like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag_of_Radiant_Energy or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag_of_Dolyak_Chow + a chance to get a chance to harvest ascended plants for feasts?

I like your idea!

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

I'd like a tactic for auto-repair. They can even make it so that the objective needs supply for it to work. I'd also enjoy auto-deploy siege tacts, to place siege sites in the right places on the walls that need to be built.

[Gorani.7205]

In addition to what I have written before:

• Auto Turrets need to guard walls as well as gates. This will stop a lot of the "cata to the wall builds" we currently see (because they are just the best, especially when you can shoot at outer & inner of keeps).
• Or as an alternative "Moat" Upgrade, which makes the perimeter around walls a "non-built-area", so you have to place catas at a range of at least 1000 from the wall. This would allow attackers on walls to offend the cata or ACs/Ballistas to shoot at it, without LoS issues.
• I am sure, there are some options with "supply", too - but that will only work when supply will actually matter again.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Tactics definetly need to be reworked but please stop with the whole asking for balance thing. Balance is the thing that makes tactics as useless as they are now.

people have forgotten what games are supposed to be about : having fun. Tactics should do interesting things and make players behave in different ways to increase the amount of novel and rememberable experiences the player can have.
 

Stop asking for balance…cause ANET will deliver on that by just nerfing whatever you thought was broken  (or worse just nerfing a bunch of stuff at random) into an oblivious, worthless pile of number slop.

[Erysium.4501]

29 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Tactics definetly need to be reworked but please stop with the whole asking for balance thing. Balance is the thing that makes tactics as useless as they are now.

people have forgotten what games are supposed to be about : having fun. Tactics should do interesting things and make players behave in different ways to increase the amount of novel and rememberable experiences the player can have.
 

Stop asking for balance…cause ANET will deliver on that by just nerfing whatever you thought was broken  (or worse just nerfing a bunch of stuff at random) into an oblivious, worthless pile of number slop.

all well and good, do you have any suggestions and ideas for varied tactics? 🙂

[Razi.6031]

What I would also really like is maybe quickslots for wvw. Maybe somewhere near the skills ui or the map ui.

Max 3 slots to keep it balanced. But you can slot in either siege or tactics. For e.g 1 slot supply removal, 1 slot ram, and 1 slot disablers. 

It's annoying to stay having to open the inventory everytime.

 

Honestly I don't know how this wasn't implemented from day 1. It puzzles me that actual game designers don't think this far ahead when designing a system.

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Razi.6031 said:

What I would also really like is maybe quickslots for wvw. Maybe somewhere near the skills ui or the map ui.

Max 3 slots to keep it balanced. But you can slot in either siege or tactics. For e.g 1 slot supply removal, 1 slot ram, and 1 slot disablers. 

It's annoying to stay having to open the inventory everytime.

 

Honestly I don't know how this wasn't implemented from day 1. It puzzles me that actual game designers don't think this far ahead when designing a system.

Would be a good change. I think a lot of players have just fallen back on shared inventory spots which is funny since Anet is missing out on WvW sales by not allowing more than we have now. 

[Gorani.7205]

3 hours ago, Razi.6031 said:

What I would also really like is maybe quickslots for wvw. Maybe somewhere near the skills ui or the map ui.

Anything that requires coding and a new UI is wishful thinking right now. Perhaps expanding on something that is already there?
I am thinking about the action key, that was introduced with raids. Functionality could also be added by a tie in to WxP Abilities.

• 1st step: "chose a functionality" at every Ouartermaster (so you can switch in/out abilities)
• 2nd "functionalities" pop up in the situation appropriate to the function
• "Avenge me!" - Once killed, you can mark the spot on the big map with your corpse, member of your party or squad would get a whisper, so they can e.g. find the killer
• "Trapper! - The first trap you have slotted in an inventory space can be activated and placed, when there is enough supply to drop it
• "Place siege!" - The first siege blueprint you have slotted in an inventory space can be activated and placed
• "Refreshed!" - Deduct 10 supply and re-fresh all the siege decay timers of manually placed siege in a 2000 radius area
• "Signal the Citadel!" - If you are in an arena that is contested by white or orange swords, you can post a message in map chat with the following text "[character name] reports [place link] under attack! (with a 30 sec. cool down, so you can't spam the chat).
• "First responder!" - Automatically chose to teleport to the last active EWP on the map or last EWP link posted in the chat.

[Gop.8713]

I'd go with 'fine as is' bc I don't trust anet to improve them if they do make changes, based on track record. So I'd rather they just left them alone . . .

"Good" tactics would be those that give defenders a meaningful opportunity to delay a large attacking force for long enough that a defending force has the opportunity to arrive and have a fight . . .

[Erysium.4501]

On 5/11/2024 at 6:11 PM, Gop.8713 said:

I'd go with 'fine as is' bc I don't trust anet to improve them if they do make changes, based on track record. So I'd rather they just left them alone . . .

"Good" tactics would be those that give defenders a meaningful opportunity to delay a large attacking force for long enough that a defending force has the opportunity to arrive and have a fight . . .

could you give me a more concrete example? do you have any ideas? i would like to collect the ideas in this post.

[Erysium.4501]

On 5/11/2024 at 7:56 AM, Razi.6031 said:

What I would also really like is maybe quickslots for wvw. Maybe somewhere near the skills ui or the map ui.

Max 3 slots to keep it balanced. But you can slot in either siege or tactics. For e.g 1 slot supply removal, 1 slot ram, and 1 slot disablers. 

It's annoying to stay having to open the inventory everytime.

 

Honestly I don't know how this wasn't implemented from day 1. It puzzles me that actual game designers don't think this far ahead when designing a system.

good ideas! i would like them!

[MedievalThings.5417]

It really doesn't matter.  Anet is going to continue to nerf anything that is used by outnumbered servers to defend.

[Gop.8713]

11 hours ago, Erysium.4501 said:

could you give me a more concrete example? do you have any ideas? i would like to collect the ideas in this post.

@MedievalThings.5417 nailed it but for example revert siege dampener change and extend duration, create walled off area around emergency wp so defenders could group when walls were down instead of spawning into aoes, make chilling fog an effect instead of a condition, as mentioned, etc. Tho that last one is more to enhance defense than enable it . . .

I'd wager if you reverted all the nerfs to wall/gate hp, auras, tactics, etc. and just left the defensive siege nerfs in place that would have done the job of loosening up the maps without making every attempt at defense pointless . . .

[Szymon.5369]

On 5/10/2024 at 6:52 PM, Erysium.4501 said:

all well and good, do you have any suggestions and ideas for varied tactics? 🙂

Replace camp supervisor with Turai Ossa from queen's gauntlet

[Erysium.4501]

Am 13.05.2024 um 09:32 Uhr sagte Szymon.5369:

Ersetze den Lageraufseher durch Turai Ossa aus dem Spießrutenlauf der Königin

Ich wäre bereit dafür 😄

[SweetPotato.7456]

Stand your ground tactic - like the invisible fountain, when you exit the fountain you will have stab

 

 

Edited May 14 by SweetPotato.7456

[Triptaminas.4789]

Tactics need same power creep as players got, not continuous nerfs but significant impact increasing, I mean buff in x3-4-5 etc. 

It must mean smtg, do the impact, blob have to be scared and prepared for them, now it's whatever, nobody cares about anything asides dragon banner and even that is irrelevant if person with it running minstrel or smtg.

Tactics must mean smtg, it must be scary, it must be impactful and not random noise nobody cares about. Same comes for high tier keep/castle guards, it doesn't pose any danger to anyone asides completely new roamers.

Everything got insane power creep in all fronts during the years while tactics, npc, sieges was nerfed down to point it's nothing but noise. If someone in team cares he should just man up and give x10 buff to every tactics and then balance down from it, it will make afk boonballs angry but contrary to their banter, they gonna play more as game becomes game again.

[Every day pon.5386]

On 5/10/2024 at 9:22 AM, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Tactics definetly need to be reworked but please stop with the whole asking for balance thing. Balance is the thing that makes tactics as useless as they are now.

people have forgotten what games are supposed to be about : having fun. Tactics should do interesting things and make players behave in different ways to increase the amount of novel and rememberable experiences the player can have.
 

Stop asking for balance…cause ANET will deliver on that by just nerfing whatever you thought was broken  (or worse just nerfing a bunch of stuff at random) into an oblivious, worthless pile of number slop.

'a-symmetric balance' is the word, er, idea :'3

[joneirikb.7506]

Regarding the idea of having own WvW slots for siege/traps etc: I'd expect the best we can get is a own category for the "toys" button, so you could select a siege/trap there. Considering it's a fairly new system, they might still have relative control enough over that system that they can make meaningful changes to it without the spaghetti monster breaking loose.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Regarding the idea of having own WvW slots for siege/traps etc: I'd expect the best we can get is a own category for the "toys" button, so you could select a siege/trap there. Considering it's a fairly new system, they might still have relative control enough over that system that they can make meaningful changes to it without the spaghetti monster breaking loose.

It was added 6 years ago. Ain’t gonna happen. 

Don’t traps sort to the WvW inventory bag, siege masters or whatever it was?

[igmolicious.5986]

Maybe it's because I've been in a a few links somewhat recently that struggled with population, but I feel like tactics don't really give much benefit at all to defenders, outside of maybe Watchtower on towers and EWP (and this still requires some level of scouting, which isn't as available in low pop teams). I would love more tactics, especially those that forced meaningful decisions, since nearly all towers/keeps run the same few tactics generally. Some ideas I had:

Steady Ground: Passive - every 5 seconds, applies 1 second of stability to allied players in objective.

Artillery Support: Active - Similar to Airships for SMC, but shorter barrage around outer and inner area of keep that does bonus damage to siege, and leaves siege that is hit disrupted).

Morale Boost: Passive - Enemies that are killed in area of objective restore some health and grant random boon to nearby allies.

Necrotic Fog: Active - While active, enemies that are downed inside the objective are immediately finished.

Sanctified Ground: Passive - Every 5 seconds, converts 1 condition to a boon on allied players in objective.

Mist Reinforcements: Active - When activated, summons a number of additional NPCs around objective that deal additional damage, and take reduced damage, but vanish after a set duration (maybe treated like other summons, so they don't grant rallies if killed).

Heavy Munitions: Passive - Increases damage of innate siege (cannons, mortars, oil), and greatly increases their damage vs. enemy siege.

Holo-Parapets: Active - While active, creates holographic barriers on top of walls that destroy enemy projectiles and obstruct enemy aoes.

Enchanted Paving: Passive - Increases movement speed of allied players inside objective by 15% and decreases movement speed of enemy players inside objective by 15%.

Edited May 17 by igmolicious.5986