The WvW Necromancer *needs* a Full Rework

[Apokriphos.7042]

The Necromancer class in Guild Wars 2 has suffered significant nerfs and changes over recent patches that have left it struggling to maintain its effectiveness in World vs. World. Once known for its powerful boon removal capabilities and unique, albeit selfish, durability, the class now significantly lags behind other professions in both offensive and defensive capabilities. This decline necessitates a comprehensive rework to restore the Necromancer's viability and ensure a balanced and diverse meta in WvW as Anet moves toward the next Expansion Release.

Recent Nerfs and Loss of Boon Removal
Over the last several patches, the Necromancer has been systematically weakened. The class’s hallmark ability to strip boons has been severely limited. The number of boons removed per trait has been reduced, and key skills have seen their boon removal capabilities significantly nerfed or entirely stripped, severely diminishing the class’s role in countering boon-heavy enemies to the point where most of those skills and traits are nearly useless against any organized group, let alone boon heavy groups which make up the majority of the current and unchanging meta.

Lack of Defensive Options
The Necromancer suffers from a severe lack of defensive utilities that are crucial in WvW. Unlike other professions, it does not possess reliable access to blocks, evasion, invulnerability, or (excepting reaper) stability, while in its class ability, shroud, which - now that the signet trait was demolished, locks out all necromancers to utility skills and effects. When attempting to use such defensive mechanisms, the class is forced to utilize inferior weapons like the sword, which comes with a lower damage coefficient, heavy projectile damage (useless in organized WvW) and large compromises overall burst strike DPS. This lack of defensive flexibility renders Necromancers vulnerable in both small-scale skirmishes and large-scale battles, making them easy targets for more resilient classes.

Minimal Group Utility and Useless Traits
Group utility is another area where Necromancers fall short. The recent change to the Scourge's support grandmaster trait, which now provides Vigor instead of more impactful boons, has made the trait virtually useless. Recent nerfs to scourge barrier, and the teleport rez trait have further added to the diminishing utility of necromancer. Additionally, Necromancers have significantly more ineffective traits and weapon skills, with the new keyboard mashing spec, Harbinger, almost completely reliant on projectiles, a damage source that is nigh-useless in any organized fight in WvW. Harbinger players are nearly impotent in most organized fights, relegated to quickness bots with a set of extremely risky melee range stuns - i.e. a new player trap. 

Necessary Rework for Competitiveness
To bring the Necromancer up to par in WvW, a comprehensive rework is necessary. This would include:

• Restoration of Boon Removal: Reinstate and enhance the class’s ability to remove boons efficiently.
• Defensive Mechanisms: Introduce skills that provide blocks, evasion, invulnerability, and stability without compromising damage output.
• Group Utility: Rework group utility traits and skills to offer meaningful support, such as converting the Vigor trait back to something more impactful, and making more shared boon skills (warhorn 5 to shared swiftness being a pertinent example).
• Skill Updates: Update outdated weapon skills to ensure they are competitive and useful in the current meta, and make sure the strike based weapon niche isnt overstocked to the absence of 1200 range DPS (staff as a utility weapon should not fill this *role*).
• Improving the Necromancer’s capabilities in both small and large-scale WvW fights is crucial. For small-scale encounters, enhancements in access to unblockable attacks (if projectiles are forced upon the necromancer), mobility and defensive options would allow Necromancers and their players to better survive and contribute. In large-scale battles, increased boon removal and more potent area-of-effect skills would restore their role as powerful disruptors and support players, ensuring that they can effectively participate.

Ultimately, the current state of the Necromancer in Guild Wars 2’s WvW is a shadow of its former self, suffering from severe persistent nerfs over a long period and a significant lack of viable traits and skills, forcing players in only a few limited builds to have a chance at validity. A significant rework is necessary to address these issues, restore the class’s competitiveness, and enhance the overall diversity and balance of WvW gameplay. Such changes would not only benefit Necromancer players but also contribute to a more dynamic and engaging WvW experience for all participants.

[Codename T.2847]

4 hours ago, Apokriphos.7042 said:

The Necromancer class in Guild Wars 2 has suffered significant nerfs and changes over recent patches that have left it struggling to maintain its effectiveness in World vs. World. Once known for its powerful boon removal capabilities and unique, albeit selfish, durability, the class now significantly lags behind other professions in both offensive and defensive capabilities. This decline necessitates a comprehensive rework to restore the Necromancer's viability and ensure a balanced and diverse meta in WvW as Anet moves toward the next Expansion Release.

Recent Nerfs and Loss of Boon Removal
Over the last several patches, the Necromancer has been systematically weakened. The class’s hallmark ability to strip boons has been severely limited. The number of boons removed per trait has been reduced, and key skills have seen their boon removal capabilities significantly nerfed or entirely stripped, severely diminishing the class’s role in countering boon-heavy enemies to the point where most of those skills and traits are nearly useless against any organized group, let alone boon heavy groups which make up the majority of the current and unchanging meta.

Lack of Defensive Options
The Necromancer suffers from a severe lack of defensive utilities that are crucial in WvW. Unlike other professions, it does not possess reliable access to blocks, evasion, invulnerability, or (excepting reaper) stability, while in its class ability, shroud, which - now that the signet trait was demolished, locks out all necromancers to utility skills and effects. When attempting to use such defensive mechanisms, the class is forced to utilize inferior weapons like the sword, which comes with a lower damage coefficient, heavy projectile damage (useless in organized WvW) and large compromises overall burst strike DPS. This lack of defensive flexibility renders Necromancers vulnerable in both small-scale skirmishes and large-scale battles, making them easy targets for more resilient classes.

Minimal Group Utility and Useless Traits
Group utility is another area where Necromancers fall short. The recent change to the Scourge's support grandmaster trait, which now provides Vigor instead of more impactful boons, has made the trait virtually useless. Recent nerfs to scourge barrier, and the teleport rez trait have further added to the diminishing utility of necromancer. Additionally, Necromancers have significantly more ineffective traits and weapon skills, with the new keyboard mashing spec, Harbinger, almost completely reliant on projectiles, a damage source that is nigh-useless in any organized fight in WvW. Harbinger players are nearly impotent in most organized fights, relegated to quickness bots with a set of extremely risky melee range stuns - i.e. a new player trap. 

Necessary Rework for Competitiveness
To bring the Necromancer up to par in WvW, a comprehensive rework is necessary. This would include:

• Restoration of Boon Removal: Reinstate and enhance the class’s ability to remove boons efficiently.
• Defensive Mechanisms: Introduce skills that provide blocks, evasion, invulnerability, and stability without compromising damage output.
• Group Utility: Rework group utility traits and skills to offer meaningful support, such as converting the Vigor trait back to something more impactful, and making more shared boon skills (warhorn 5 to shared swiftness being a pertinent example).
• Skill Updates: Update outdated weapon skills to ensure they are competitive and useful in the current meta, and make sure the strike based weapon niche isnt overstocked to the absence of 1200 range DPS (staff as a utility weapon should not fill this *role*).
• Improving the Necromancer’s capabilities in both small and large-scale WvW fights is crucial. For small-scale encounters, enhancements in access to unblockable attacks (if projectiles are forced upon the necromancer), mobility and defensive options would allow Necromancers and their players to better survive and contribute. In large-scale battles, increased boon removal and more potent area-of-effect skills would restore their role as powerful disruptors and support players, ensuring that they can effectively participate.

Ultimately, the current state of the Necromancer in Guild Wars 2’s WvW is a shadow of its former self, suffering from severe persistent nerfs over a long period and a significant lack of viable traits and skills, forcing players in only a few limited builds to have a chance at validity. A significant rework is necessary to address these issues, restore the class’s competitiveness, and enhance the overall diversity and balance of WvW gameplay. Such changes would not only benefit Necromancer players but also contribute to a more dynamic and engaging WvW experience for all participants.

Yeeees, buff strips on GS, axe and dagger / sword MH, so all the motherfzkers running cele Harbi can come off it and play power instead pls _/\_

[mirage.8046]

more boon corrupts would be nice jajajaja so zergs could face some punishment again. >_< the signet trait needs a serious rework as it is a troll pick; signet of undeath does not rip boons. signets are also hardly taken in wvw unless it's locust signet for its passive increased speed.

[KrHome.1920]

ANet did not reduce (basically remove) corrupts because they thaught there were too many. The full communicated rework includes a boon application reduction (or boon duration reduction) as well. The problem is (as is often the case) that ANet got lost along the way to the goal and we are left with a complete mess for years to come.

[sdaugherty.1984]

.

Edited May 26 by sdaugherty.1984

[sdaugherty.1984]

[The Necromancer class in Guild Wars 2 has suffered significant nerfs and changes over recent patches that have left it struggling to maintain its effectiveness in World vs. World.]

Yes C'mon Anet where's the WvW balance with the current Necro? So many other classed are almost impossible to kill with all the escape tricks and blocks. As a reaper I can't catch anyone and get caught and focused down constantly. 

With the ability to tweak and balance between modes of gameplay please give the Necro some help. If you are afraid to add damage, please give a weapon like the Staff some strips?

[SleepyBat.9034]

Don't touch my Reaper. Harbinger can get lost but stay away from Reaper.

[Frozey.8513]

I agree in the sense that Necro Warhorn's design basis seems to be all over the place. Skill 4 is decent yet short cone CC, but then on 5th skill you are only able to provide swiftness to yourself with around 66% uptime assuming no additional boon duration or Warhorn trait. At the same time however you do bring quite decent life siphoning to you and your allies unlike with the swiftness, but the downfall of it is very small siphoning range of 180, and very short duration of 7,5 seconds even with the Warhorn trait. Additinally Warhorn Major trait on Bloodmagic has to compete with Vampiric Presence, which gives you constant life siphoning on 600 range during combat, making Warhorn Major trait even harder to sell in it's current form. 

I think Warhorn should be changed either way to make you able to share the swiftness with your allies. Also increasing life siphoning duration and area of effect should be considered, as it would make it much more appealing to pick up the Warhorn trait on your build, in order to get a lot more than current 7,5 seconds of it with 180 range while still having 24 second cool down.

[XenesisII.1540]

On 5/20/2024 at 6:24 PM, KrHome.1920 said:

ANet did not reduce (basically remove) corrupts because they thaught there were too many. The full communicated rework includes a boon application reduction (or boon duration reduction) as well. The problem is (as is often the case) that ANet got lost along the way to the goal and we are left with a complete mess for years to come.

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds. So the way they will go about this is to only nerf down boon strips one per patch, over the course of 3 years, until they think that's "balanced", then proceed to nerf down boon applications? But if they nerf down boon strips to the point they think it's balanced..... why would they need to go nerf down boon applications after? because if you nerf down boon applications afterwards, they will then unbalance the boon strips....

Does anyone realize that boon applications and strips go hand in hand? nerfing just one side of the equation is going to tip it over to the other side. You don't "balance" by just nerfing one side and then the other, you do them both at the same time if the intention is to bring them both down, then you make minor adjustments.

This all sounds like the person is charge is purposely taking the slow road to milk the job duration out. They could have done all the boon strip nerfs in one patch, you know like the mass damage reduction they did, and then proceed from there, instead it's ongoing for 3 years, and what another 3 years before they finish balancing boons while they continue to release more unbalancing mechanics and boon applications through expansions? I suppose we should expect that from anet given they've taken 8 years to finally bring out world restructuring to replace links. CMC needs to read his spreadsheets a little faster.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds. So the way they will go about this is to only nerf down boon strips one per patch, over the course of 3 years, until they think that's "balanced", then proceed to nerf down boon applications? But if they nerf down boon strips to the point they think it's balanced..... why would they need to go nerf down boon applications after? because if you nerf down boon applications afterwards, they will then unbalance the boon strips....

Does anyone realize that boon applications and strips go hand in hand? nerfing just one side of the equation is going to tip it over to the other side. You don't "balance" by just nerfing one side and then the other, you do them both at the same time if the intention is to bring them both down, then you make minor adjustments.

This all sounds like the person is charge is purposely taking the slow road to milk the job duration out. They could have done all the boon strip nerfs in one patch, you know like the mass damage reduction they did, and then proceed from there, instead it's ongoing for 3 years, and what another 3 years before they finish balancing boons while they continue to release more unbalancing mechanics and boon applications through expansions? I suppose we should expect that from anet given they've taken 8 years to finally bring out world restructuring to replace links. CMC needs to read his spreadsheets a little faster.

To be fair, the devs have many ambitious "projects" that they fail to follow through. Ultimately, players either forget those projects or realise that they were just a mean to sell arguable points on a balance patch.

The reality is that the devs are confortable with the heavy boon meta (well, they aren't very confortable with quickness and alacrity in competitive modes but they are already working on removing the ability to share those in these gamemodes).

Boon removal on another hand is a thorn on their side. It's a mechanism that can be very strong in competitive modes yet is mostly "weak" in PvE. It make it difficult to properly manage the power budget of the professions/e-specs that have access to boon removal which is why it's more convenient for them to minimize their impact instead of increasing it.

Don't expect big changes to the statu quo. The devs' focus is all over the content of the next x-pac which will bring it's own impact on the balance in every gamemode.

[XECOR.2814]

For Corrupts/Boon Removal to feel good in WvW:

• Scepter#3 Feast of Corruption (Un-traited, Single Target)
  Should corrupt 3 boons.
   
• Axe#3 Unholy Feast (Initial Cast, AOE)
  Should convert(instead of boon remove) 2 boon to 5xVulnerability for each boon removed,
  
  Axe#3 Unholy Burst (Proc under 50%, AOE)
  The big power strike damage can move in here and it should also do additional 5xVulnerability.
   
• Dagger#5 Enfeebling Blood (AOE)
  Should corrupt 1 boon.
   
• Spiteful Spirit (Spite Trait line GM Trait, AOE)
  Should convert 1 boon to 5xVulnerability and bonus should be convert 2 boon to 5xVuln for each boon.
   
• Corrupt Boon (Utility, Single Target)
  Should corrupt 3 boons per charge.
   

Some other changes in WvW:

• Spectral Walk(50s CD) into 40s CD,
  Spectral Grasp(35s CD) to 30s CD, and
  Spectral Armor(30s CD) to 25s CD.
  Since Necromancer utilities skills are wasted by minions and well skills and then all signets are ruined leaving only spectral skills and then we wonder why spectral skills have so high playability rate. When these defensive utilities have these cds then anyone can even think about taking Corrupt Boon or something as third utility slot, otherwise you are always stuck in (spectral walk, wurm, spectral ring) on all  possible necromancer builds.
   
• Lich Form(150s CD) into 90s CD,
  Plaguelands(120s CD) into 90s CD
  These elites cooldowns do not serve justice to their effects and usability in WvW.
  The Lich Form minion bombing in zerg can be fixed in various ways.
   
• Life Transfer (Core Shroud#4)
  This skill needs to be at least 4s baseline bleeds, either that or it should be poison 3s instead of bleed.
  Higher power damage component too. Its a 3.5s channeled skill inside the shroud which has its resource too hence it deserves way higher power budget.
   
• Dark Path (Core Shroud#2)
  This skill needs to do Blind(3s) also give a bit more time to use the flip skill since 3s is way too short in a fight.
  I would suggest a 5s interval to use flip skill would suffice.
   
• Dhuumfire (Core Shroud#1, Auto attacks)
  These auto-attacks needs to be faster, the 1sec cast time + travel time for projectile + after cast makes this skill a bother to use even if it is auto attack, it just doesn't flow well in a fight. The underwater variant for the same skill feels much better, the cast time for that is 1/2s which flows really well and doesn't feel jarring.
  Lets be honest core necro is not doing any auto-attack padding in any gamemode, this much can be done without any concessions.

 

Elite Spec Changes:

• Augury of Death (Reaper, First Major Trait)
  Complete rework. Think of a new effect other than life siphon, its useless in every gamemode and a self nerf.
   
• Sand Savant (Scourge, GM Trait)
  Rework. Big shade is a self nerf in every aspect in every gamemode.
  It can have a niche if reworked into a completely selfish role since that is lacking on scourge in WvW.
   
• Cascading Corruption (Harbinger, GM Trait)
  Rework. The pulsing aoe around you is a abomination of a mechanic and it involves 0 gameplay.
  The power specs require more qol on their build and more interaction with blight to gain defensive abilities.
  It can work if the trait is completely reworked into something that consumes blight on shroud
  and gives bonus effects like protection, cleanse, stab, resistance, vigor, or raw healing.
  On the flip side it can give blight on shroud exit, flipping the gameplay dynamics like GM are supposed to

[Player.2475]

They spent every patch of the last 3 years making corrupts/boon removal weaker, so all these suggestions are the opposite of what Anet wants.

[Nimon.7840]

37 minutes ago, Player.2475 said:

They spent every patch of the last 3 years making corrupts/boon removal weaker, so all these suggestions are the opposite of what Anet wants.

Yes. But I think they only once lowered the boon duration of boons?

Not quite sure. Maybe they lowered boon durations for single skills. But if you are still able to upkeep 5-6 boons on yourself in a longer fight, then this nerf wasn't anywhere near, where it should have been.

Either there should be counterplay by removing the boons from your opponents, or they should naturally drop because the boon duration isn't long enough. to create times frames for counterplay. But if you keep nerfing the boon removal but don't touch the uptime of boons, that creates an imbalance.

And that's just boon wise. 

There's also the problem of dmg in wvw. There's roaming build that get/got buffed to oblivion, trying to make them viable for zergplay, where they still don't really see play. for example willbender that is somehow able to almost one shot a barriered up heal scourge, even if the scourge dodges the first hit immobilize. Or ranger that keeps getting longbow buffs. Hell even harbinger though the harbinger problem is a different one called celestial stats - which tbf is a problem on a lot of builds.

And that you definitely notice by more and more people playing cele even in zergs.

[Joxer.6024]

ok. ALL that makes sense for future junk...but, WHAT WORKS NOW!????