Guardian Spear Description

[Vinny.7260]

Quote

Unlike the kodan that settled in the Shiverpeaks, the kodan of Janthir have long separated from their reverence for Koda. Instead, they’ve turned to the nature they’re surrounded by to guide their relationship with the world—the sun and all the benefits life seizes from it included. Certain spear bears look to the sun to channel inspiration in battle, aiding their allies and illuminating a path forward. Guardians have learned from these kodan and wield their spears in a similar manner, focusing on supporting allies and debilitating enemies.

While some of these skills can be used to provide support at a safe distance, their true potential is realized on the front lines when the guardian is fighting alongside their allies. By fulfilling specific conditions, certain spear skills will cause the following spear attack to be illuminated, which makes them stronger or grants them additional effects.

While you can only empower one skill at any given time, those skills can in turn grant the illuminated status to your next skill, allowing the guardian to chain multiple illuminated skills together with precise positioning. Let’s look at how a few of these skills work.

The second skill, Helio Rush, causes the guardian to charge forward in the direction they’re aiming, dealing damage to enemies and healing allies that they pass through. Striking an enemy during the rush causes the next spear attack to be illuminated. The illuminated version of Helio Rush increases the healing and additionally grants them resolution. Thus, this skill is best used in the thick of the fray, when you’re able to go through both allies and enemies at once.

Guardian weapons aren’t complete without a symbol of some sort, and the spear is no exception. The fifth skill, Symbol of Luminance, knocks enemies back as you cast it. The symbol pulses resistance to allies who don’t have it already and weakness to enemies. Symbol of Luminance is unique in that, unlike other spear skills, it does not have a way to grant the illuminated effect—but for good reason! While standing within the symbol, any spear attacks you perform are automatically illuminated, regardless of whether you are currently in the correct state. With the illuminated version of this skill, this property applies even if you leave the symbol and lasts for as long as the symbol does, including the additional duration granted by Writ of Persistence, an existing guardian trait.

 

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/spearheading-a-new-weapon-guardian-ranger-and-necromancer/

 

Sounds like it could be fun. Sounds like a mix of Elementalist's Flame Axe and Leyline's from a specific other MMORPG Ranged DPS. Sounds exciting.

 

Any speculation? Concerns?

[Falseprophet.1502]

I don't think Guardian needs this kind of weapon. It really needed a good power-focused mid-ranged weapon.

If this weapon doesn't scale well with power and if the symbol doesn't do damage in PvP/WvW due to it's CC, it's dead on arrival for any power-focused build. I guess we'll have to wait to see how the illuminated mechanic works but I am not excited for this one bit as it seems to be a weapon that will help bring up support* Firebrand in comp modes because they can't figure out how to balance the spec. 

Edited June 6 by Falseprophet.1502
*support to clarify, there is no way this is going to work on cdps builds lol

[draxynnic.3719]

First thought: Oh, Dwayna, they think people like the elementalist pistol bullet mechanic so now they're saddling Guardian with it.

To be fair, though, it's probably not going to be as terrible on guardian. You only have one Illuminated buff to track rather than four, you've got more skills on your bar at once that can use it rather than just being 2 and 3, and it's not adding more complexity to a profession which is already considered to be highly complex. So it might work out okay. They do still seem to be insistent on adding gimmicks to weapons, though.

Doesn't feel like it's a weapon that's intended to help firebrand since it there doesn't seem to be any mention of condition damage in there, although maybe it can compete with existing options for a power-based healbrand?

[zicaB.1794]

I love the weapon and the animations. Unlike the soto this exp is giving me new elite vibes.  but sometimes i do not understend balance decisions. 

"The fifth skill, Symbol of Luminance, knocks enemies back as you cast it"

So, its already hard to hit mobile targets with symbols and now, we will knock then back? Pls, make it a knockdown, stum or a pull.

edit: watching the video i didn't see a knockback when casting the symbol skill, seens I missunderstand something. 

Edited June 6 by zicaB.1794

[Gaiawolf.8261]

As I posted in another thread:

Quote

Guardian skills look really cool, and the descriptions sounds neat, but they also raise questions. A symbol that knocks enemies back and requires you to stand in it? Does that mean the spear skills have enough range to reach the knocked back foes while you are still in the symbol? Do you lose out on symbol pulse damage if you push enemies out of it? I'm seeing backward synergies here, like with the melee pistol symbol all over again.

I do really like the theme and sun imagery. I'll have to see the conditions for illuminations to judge, but so far not so bad. Helios needs to hit an enemy, and the symbol needs you to stand in it. Okay, cool. But those other concerns for the symbol have me worried. Symbol of Ignition concerns rising...

Edit: The last skill in the video looks amazing. That's what a divine spear should look like!

Edited June 6 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Supernova Starr.2069]

It's discripted with heal effects on 2 and a symbol that gives resistence, so I'm assuming it's a mele focused support weapon, that being said, I wrote elsewhere, and I think it's focused on a support willbender build.

[Trejgon.9367]

1 hour ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

symbol needs you to stand in it.

Standard version of symbol requires you to stand within it, to enable illuminated version of other skills, but illuminated symbol (conditions unknown) does not - it allows to auto-illuminate other skills as long as it is out there. At least based on blog description.

The blog also seems to imply, that each skill will have some condition to meet to get's it's illuminated version regardless of the combos like the Helios hitting enemy or the symbol. Like those combos are alternative to primary "positioning" requirement?

But yeah this weapon lives and dies on how convoluted the illuminated conditions will end up being (and how strong the illuminated bump will be I guess)

[Gaiawolf.8261]

19 minutes ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

Standard version of symbol requires you to stand within it, to enable illuminated version of other skills, but illuminated symbol (conditions unknown) does not - it allows to auto-illuminate other skills as long as it is out there. At least based on blog description.

The blog also seems to imply, that each skill will have some condition to meet to get's it's illuminated version regardless of the combos like the Helios hitting enemy or the symbol. Like those combos are alternative to primary "positioning" requirement?

But yeah this weapon lives and dies on how convoluted the illuminated conditions will end up being (and how strong the illuminated bump will be I guess)

True story. So far they aren't so bad. 2 out of 4, since I'm assuming the autoattack won't grant the status effect. I hope it has an illuminated version tho. Would be really cool if the whole auto-chain changes if you start it while illuminated.

Edit: The post said the symbol cannot grant the status effect, but implied it can be illuminated from the previous skill, which is what allows you to leave the symbol and still get the effect for as long as the symbol lasts.

Edited June 6 by Gaiawolf.8261

[draxynnic.3719]

Yeah, I found that a bit weird. "It can't grant illuminated... here's a bunch of ways in which it grants illuminated!"

I think what's going on is that... basically, it's elepistol bullet, except there's only one rather than four types. Skills 2, 3, and 4 will generate the "bullet" if you don't already have one, and if you do have one, they'll expend it for a stronger effect. The symbol can only ever expend the "bullet", not generate one - however, if you're standing in the symbol or the symbol was illuminated, all of your other attacks will behave as if they were expending the "bullet".

So it kind of makes sense - the symbol doesn't generate the "bullet" effect, but instead bypasses it by letting you get the normal benefit without interacting with the "bullet" mechanic.

[Kuya.6495]

My minor pet peeve is that for some reason it bothers me that the skill is called Helio Rush instead of Helios Rush 🤷

 

Other than that, love the animations/skill effects and the mechanic looks promising. I'm hoping this enables a bruiser spvp guardian build and/or enhanced support in wvw/spvp (helio rush already sounds good for peeling for yourself in spvp).

[Gaiawolf.8261]

48 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Yeah, I found that a bit weird. "It can't grant illuminated... here's a bunch of ways in which it grants illuminated!"

I think what's going on is that... basically, it's elepistol bullet, except there's only one rather than four types. Skills 2, 3, and 4 will generate the "bullet" if you don't already have one, and if you do have one, they'll expend it for a stronger effect. The symbol can only ever expend the "bullet", not generate one - however, if you're standing in the symbol or the symbol was illuminated, all of your other attacks will behave as if they were expending the "bullet".

So it kind of makes sense - the symbol doesn't generate the "bullet" effect, but instead bypasses it by letting you get the normal benefit without interacting with the "bullet" mechanic.

I think "Illuminated" will be a single effect you get if you trigger the specific conditions when using a #2-#4 spear skill, which spends the next time you use a spear skill (like getting and spending only one bullet as you said). 

The symbol might allow you to use the buffed version of the other skills under its own set of conditions (while in the symbol if the #5 symbol skill was used when you don't have the Illuminated effect on you, and for as long as the symbol lasts if the #5 symbol skill was used when you have the illuminated effect), but it doesn't actually give you the Illuminated effect on you. So potentially, you could cast the symbol, and your next spear skill might not get the buff if you leave the symbol or it expires, because you never actually had the Illuminated effect. 

If that sounds complicated or funky, it probably is. Anet keeps adding these new gimmicks with funky rules to the new weapons. So not only do we need to track when we have the Illuminated effect or not, we have to memorize different triggers to get the effect and the different buffed skill effects. Yikes.

Edited June 7 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Panda.1967]

16 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think what's going on is that... basically, it's elepistol bullet, except there's only one rather than four types. Skills 2, 3, and 4 will generate the "bullet" if you don't already have one, and if you do have one, they'll expend it for a stronger effect.

Not quite… they stated in no uncertain words that meeting the conditions to gain illuminated while using an illuminated skill can grant the status again allowing you to chain illuminated skills back to back. So its not actually like elepistol, similar in that you get a buff that enables an enhanced skill effect, but how you get the buff is different and if you play things right you could in theory have 100% uptime of the status while elepistol can only ever have at best 50% uptime.

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, Panda.1967 said:

Not quite… they stated in no uncertain words that meeting the conditions to gain illuminated while using an illuminated skill can grant the status again allowing you to chain illuminated skills back to back. So its not actually like elepistol, similar in that you get a buff that enables an enhanced skill effect, but how you get the buff is different and if you play things right you could in theory have 100% uptime of the status while elepistol can only ever have at best 50% uptime.

That kinda feels like it's just another "except" to me... albeit a significant one. We'll see how it actually plays when the beta arrives.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Here's a question: can other Guardians benefit from your Symbol of Luminance?

[MagicBot.1570]

On 6/6/2024 at 7:01 PM, Falseprophet.1502 said:

I don't think Guardian needs this kind of weapon. It really needed a good power-focused mid-ranged weapon.

If this weapon doesn't scale well with power and if the symbol doesn't do damage in PvP/WvW due to it's CC, it's dead on arrival for any power-focused build. I guess we'll have to wait to see how the illuminated mechanic works but I am not excited for this one bit as it seems to be a weapon that will help bring up support* Firebrand in comp modes because they can't figure out how to balance the spec. 

The weapon and the animations look amazing, but I share the same sentiment. For a class that has so many tools for support already, it really wasn't a priority to make another support weapon. We have Staff, Mace, Shield, and Hammer which serve as a boon, support and control weapons, not to mention the countless traits and skills we have with integrated healing and boon application.

For a class that is also so power focused, and doesn't have extravagant mechanics outside of weapons (besides firebrand which is condi/support), it's a real shame how we have to cope with a selection of 5 power weapons, one of which being completely lackluster (offhand Sword). MH Sword and Focus are also barely viable, and realistically the only two weapons that any power build will run are Greatsword and Longbow.

If they are too cautious with the power coefficients again, then this weapon will become extremely niche and it will only be used on support Firebrand, which honestly doesn't need any more care than it already has at all. Then again, it does look like it may have potential for power damage on top of support, with that big AoE skill.

Edited June 9 by MagicBot.1570

[Falseprophet.1502]

10 hours ago, MagicBot.1570 said:

The weapon and the animations look amazing, but I share the same sentiment. For a class that has so many tools for support already, it really wasn't a priority to make another support weapon. We have Staff, Mace, Shield, and Hammer which serve as a boon, support and control weapons, not to mention the countless traits and skills we have with integrated healing and boon application.

For a class that is also so power focused, and doesn't have extravagant mechanics outside of weapons (besides firebrand which is condi/support), it's a real shame how we have to cope with a selection of 5 power weapons, one of which being completely lackluster (offhand Sword). MH Sword and Focus are also barely viable, and realistically the only two weapons that any power build will run are Greatsword and Longbow.

If they are too cautious with the power coefficients again, then this weapon will become extremely niche and it will only be used on support Firebrand, which honestly doesn't need any more care than it already has at all. Then again, it does look like it may have potential for power damage on top of support, with that big AoE skill.

I agree. You are missing one of our friends: scepter. Absolutely zero buffs or changes to scepter. You'll never run scepter in any power build. They need to rework the AA and increase the damage coefficients on symbol/aa. I don't even know what they need to do SC3.  

[Mic.1897]

To be fair the only reason I don't run Scepter on some builds is because the sound it makes genuinely gives me migraines lol :-(

[Trejgon.9367]

On 6/6/2024 at 11:37 PM, Trejgon.9367 said:

The blog also seems to imply, that each skill will have some condition to meet to get's it's illuminated version regardless of the combos like the Helios hitting enemy or the symbol. Like those combos are alternative to primary "positioning" requirement?

I have re-read the blogpost couple more times, and I come here to correct myself since I grossly misread it on original read. Each skill has a special condition that when fulfilled grants illuminated status to the next skill.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

32 minutes ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

I have re-read the blogpost couple more times, and I come here to correct myself since I grossly misread it on original read. Each skill has a special condition that when fulfilled grants illuminated status to the next skill.

Yes. I think the idea is that with position and timing, you can string some interesting chains, until the stupid, knockback kitten symbol comes along and screws it all up. Just like with pistols! 🙃

I'm pretty sure at this point Anet likes guardians and want to build cool tools for us, just to troll us with anti-intuitive symbols. Symbol hate among the devs is strong.

[Saiyan.1704]

No clue what "illumination" even means so, idk how I can get hype on a weapon that I've only see SFX for.

"spear is used best on the front lines, able to XYZ allies you pass through and XYZ enemies"

That's a pretty bold statement and it's giving me staff warrior vibes. If I'm using Spear for the "front line" then it better give me some pretty good self-sustain utilities that helps me and my allies.

[Kuya.6495]

8 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

No clue what "illumination" even means so, idk how I can get hype on a weapon that I've only see SFX for.

"spear is used best on the front lines, able to XYZ allies you pass through and XYZ enemies"

That's a pretty bold statement and it's giving me staff warrior vibes. If I'm using Spear for the "front line" then it better give me some pretty good self-sustain utilities that helps me and my allies.

I agree that it's giving staff warrior vibes and I hope that's the case since that will make duelist guard go brrrrrrr

[Arken.3725]

Spvp Perspective:

I know this is going to sound incredibly pessimistic but all new Guardian weapons so far have been subpar, I don't expect Spear to be any different.

Anyone you plays Guard in spvp knows this is a fact.  Axe on FB is never utilized, Off-hand sword on WB is terrible and even the new Pistols are underperforming.  

Based on previous evidence of this, I suspect Spear will also be pretty bad.  Sorry for the pessimism but that's just how I see it.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

23 minutes ago, Arken.3725 said:

Spvp Perspective:

I know this is going to sound incredibly pessimistic but all new Guardian weapons so far have been subpar, I don't expect Spear to be any different.

Anyone you plays Guard in spvp knows this is a fact.  Axe on FB is never utilized, Off-hand sword on WB is terrible and even the new Pistols are underperforming.  

Based on previous evidence of this, I suspect Spear will also be pretty bad.  Sorry for the pessimism but that's just how I see it.

I see spears potentially working for minstrel FBs in WVW on pushes and retreats, especially since #2 can grant resistance while charging. The symbol sounds like it might pump support to nearby allies while active.

I was hoping for more of a paragon playstyle, but it looks like they are giving that to warriors. Why do warriors and rangers get to have clear, crisp attacks with dynamic purpose again, while every other class has to deal with mini game gimmicks again? At least the gimmick for thieves looks kinda straightforward.