Janthir Wilds - skyscales zergs will kill the immersion

[StraightPath.3972]

9.06.2024 - Changed title and streamlined the content of first post to make it less clickbaity and more to the point

Janthir Wilds trailer promises us wild, untamed and dangerous land.
The norse music, the wild scenery, the new enemies and weapon to tackle it's challenges..

Cue elevator music as zergs if not blobs of skyscale mounted players will just roll over the map,
leaving scorched air and smell of dragon farts behind them..

If trailer promises a wild, rugged, untamed and challenging land, then I hope a-net will translate this into gameplay,
with mechanics or/and restrictions preventing just zerging/flying over the content.

Edited June 9 by StraightPath.3972

[Farohna.6247]

Don't buy it.  End of discussion.  Next.  

[Darkvramp.5640]

So your saying you don't like mmos or just the skyscales.

[StraightPath.3972]

9 minutes ago, Darkvramp.5640 said:

So your saying you don't like mmos or just the skyscales.

I'm saying that if we're to explore wild new regions they should feel as such not only with looks and sounds, but also by putting extra pressure on the player.
I can already see day 1 first map with 400 players, 300 of which are skyscale mounted plowing through everything, possibly even without dismounting their skyscale - just throwing fireball.

I would very much like to see cohesion between trailers, lore and gameplay.
If the trailers suggest wild, tough lands that command respect and learning their ways to survive,
I sure don't want to see a full battalion of skyscales plowing through everything 2s into the game..

[Ashantara.8731]

2 minutes ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

I'm saying that if we're to explore wild new regions they should feel as such not only with looks and sounds, but also by putting extra pressure on the player.
I can already see day 1 first map with 400 players, 300 of which are skyscale mounted plowing through everything, possibly even without dismounting their skyscale - just throwing fireball.

I would very much like to see cohesion between trailers, lore and gameplay.
If the trailers suggest wild, tough lands that command respect and learning their ways to survive,
I sure don't want to see a full battalion of skyscales plowing through everything 2s into the game..

You've got a valid point there. 👍

[Zera.9435]

12 minutes ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

I'm saying that if we're to explore wild new regions they should feel as such not only with looks and sounds, but also by putting extra pressure on the player.
I can already see day 1 first map with 400 players, 300 of which are skyscale mounted plowing through everything, possibly even without dismounting their skyscale - just throwing fireball.

I would very much like to see cohesion between trailers, lore and gameplay.
If the trailers suggest wild, tough lands that command respect and learning their ways to survive,
I sure don't want to see a full battalion of skyscales plowing through everything 2s into the game..

Yeah I think I get what you mean. I mentioned in another post that I expect that there will be areas where all mounts except warclaw are blocked from the player (similar to the block you get in jumping puzzles). From a wilderness exploration standpoint, they kind of have to do it. I wonder if one of the masteries for this new expansion will involve some kind of steep cliff traversal ability using our warclaws and spears, like maybe we throw our spear and reel ourselves in like a grappling hook? I don't know, just a thought that occurred to me just now.

Don't get me wrong, I like my skyscale, but I think you bring up a valid point that it will reduce our sense of exploration for the new areas, and what's worse is that I can't foresee any viable 'fix' for this possible issue without adding another sort of hindrance on the player because 'reasons'. Sure, I COULD simply not use my skyscale, but let's be real here. I'm not going to not use a mount that I worked hard to get and enjoy using.

[Zebulous.2934]

So.  If I wait a week, or two, the skyscale riders will have mostly blitzed through the content.  The only folks left will be ground bound, like myself.  

Sounds like a plan 

[Darkvramp.5640]

1 hour ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

I'm saying that if we're to explore wild new regions they should feel as such not only with looks and sounds, but also by putting extra pressure on the player.
I can already see day 1 first map with 400 players, 300 of which are skyscale mounted plowing through everything, possibly even without dismounting their skyscale - just throwing fireball.

I would very much like to see cohesion between trailers, lore and gameplay.
If the trailers suggest wild, tough lands that command respect and learning their ways to survive,
I sure don't want to see a full battalion of skyscales plowing through everything 2s into the game..

You want the new area to abandon all pretense it just setup in the last expansion, that skyscales has all these new abilities and conveniences, but unfortunately that won't happen. I agree that over use of mounts is bleeding some of the fun out of the game, but they just need to make the mounts themselves more fun.

Is there a place for mount restrictions, yes, but whole zones? No

let people play how they want.

[Darkvramp.5640]

38 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

So.  If I wait a week, or two, the skyscale riders will have mostly blitzed through the content.  The only folks left will be ground bound, like myself.  

Sounds like a plan 

No they still will be there and will come along and help you without asking. Because that's the gw2 community.

[Gehenna.3625]

6 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

So I'm gonna be that guy and say it.
Janthir Wilds looks epic (sides maybe some 2012 Kessex Hills waterfall assets), but therein lies the whole problem:
It's extremly unfit for GW2.

The very name - Janthir WILDS tells the story.
Norse music, wilderness, strong nature themes, ancient structures, traditional homestead...

WITH 3 PLAYERS ON THE GROUND AND 77 ON SKYSCALES DROPPING DROPPINGS ALL OVER THE PLACE!

The very gameplay of current day GW2 kills off the very theme of your xpac!
If you want it to be wild, dangerous, primal, you need to curb down the MMO aspect.

Less max players on map, some restrictions on mounts that trivialize everything , ranging from getting a vista
to getting a date with that hot redhair, which you know you'll regret later..

I like being on the map and doing events with a group of players, but not whole kitten blobs of them.
And that will sink the immersion down to Mariana Trench levels 😕

So you think that Anet hasn't thought about the skyscale issue? Well, time will tell but they might have mobs like, for example, titans that could shoot skyscales out of the sky.

[motoii.1835]

I love mounts but mounts also completely killed the exploration aspect of the game, I choose to not use mounts sometimes solely because I miss struggling to get a Poi or a vista or just getting a little lost in the area. I lowkey miss pre-PoF Gw2 because of this, every map feels so incredibly tiny now because of them. 

[Inssengrimm.7924]

4 minutes ago, motoii.1835 said:

I love mounts but mounts also completely killed the exploration aspect of the game, I choose to not use mounts sometimes solely because I miss struggling to get a Poi or a vista or just getting a little lost in the area. I lowkey miss pre-PoF Gw2 because of this, every map feels so incredibly tiny now because of them. 

I think is kinda part of why SotO maps where in general the worse designed open world maps.
We have come from industry praised open world maps with intricate and fun exploration to maps that just bother people or are completely ignored in their design.

And all makes it so is easier to just not care anymore when designing maps.

Aesthetics aside, this is a gorgeous game, but map design has certainly tanked. 

[motoii.1835]

Just now, Inssengrimm.7924 said:

I think is kinda part of why SotO maps where in general the worse designed open world maps.
We have come from industry praised open world maps with intricate and fun exploration to maps that just bother people or are completely ignored in their design.

And all makes it so is easier to just not care anymore when designing maps.

Aesthetics aside, this is a gorgeous game, but map design has certainly tanked. 

Agreed completely. I realized the other day because of the Dragon Bash event that the core Tyria maps really remain superior in terms of how they feel. It really feels like Tyria is a big breathing organism that you get to experience and walk through. All the newer maps look fancier but lack depth and purpose and don't really feel like they have any soul.

[kiroho.4738]

10 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

Janthir Wilds looks epic (sides maybe some 2012 Kessex Hills waterfall assets), but therein lies the whole problem:

How do you know? We barely have seen anything yet.

 

10 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

It's extremly unfit for GW2.

How do you know? We barely have seen anything yet.

 

10 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

The very name - Janthir WILDS tells the story.

It tells nothing. 😉 

 

10 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

WITH 3 PLAYERS ON THE GROUND AND 77 ON SKYSCALES DROPPING DROPPINGS ALL OVER THE PLACE!

Skyscale has nothing to do with the nex expansion.
Warclaw will be the featured mount.

 

10 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

The very gameplay of current day GW2 kills off the very theme of your xpac!

Nope.

 

10 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

If you want it to be wild, dangerous, primal, you need to curb down the MMO aspect.

Nope.

 

10 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

Less max players on map, some restrictions on mounts that trivialize everything , ranging from getting a vista
to getting a date with that hot redhair, which you know you'll regret later..

Less features, less variety, more restrictions. That will kill an expansion. lol. 😐

 

10 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

I like being on the map and doing events with a group of players, but not whole kitten blobs of them.

Than an MMO is the wrong genre for you.
What you are looking for are coop multiplayer games.

 

 

Edited June 9 by kiroho.4738

[Randulf.7614]

There is a genuine discussion to be had of the effects of mounts - skyscale especially - on map design, exploration and the potential feeling of world shrinkage. I can totally understand that.

It is not right to suggest this expac is going to suck with so little knowledge of the details or having not played it. There may be counter mechanics. There may be verticality. We simply do not know how it will effect things. And people can always choose not to use them when exploring. Easier said than done, but certainly a solution outside of metas, where exploration isn't a focus.

Maybe lets wait and see and give it a chance first before the "you suck" chants begin. I mean honestly, what would Kurt Angle think...

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Perhaps, the Warclaw's new double-jump will replace the Skyscale in this map.  🤷‍♂️

[Darkvramp.5640]

1 hour ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Perhaps, the Warclaw's new double-jump will replace the Skyscale in this map.  🤷‍♂️

all that does is basically make it a jackal. so there is high doubts on the top shelf that anything will change, other than more mount centered metas, which people generally don't like.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

10 hours ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

So I'm gonna be that guy and say it.
Janthir Wilds looks epic (sides maybe some 2012 Kessex Hills waterfall assets), but therein lies the whole problem:
It's extremly unfit for GW2.

The very name - Janthir WILDS tells the story.
Norse music, wilderness, strong nature themes, ancient structures, traditional homestead...

WITH 3 PLAYERS ON THE GROUND AND 77 ON SKYSCALES DROPPING DROPPINGS ALL OVER THE PLACE!

The very gameplay of current day GW2 kills off the very theme of your xpac!
If you want it to be wild, dangerous, primal, you need to curb down the MMO aspect.

Less max players on map, some restrictions on mounts that trivialize everything , ranging from getting a vista
to getting a date with that hot redhair, which you know you'll regret later..

I like being on the map and doing events with a group of players, but not whole kitten blobs of them.
And that will sink the immersion down to Mariana Trench levels 😕

Not sure where this is coming from, honestly. 1) There hasn't been much of a norn-focused expansion yet. Even IBS had to share heavily with charrs. 2) The focus on warclaws and especially the new goat skins seem to indicate climbing skills will be added into new exploration mechanics for the map, and flying mounts will be less useful. 3) Most importantly, MMOs by their very nature favor more massive player interactions and socialization, not less. I think you are in the wrong game genre, TBH. Try D4 or another multiplayer online game that's not an MMO instead, maybe? I hear Helldivers is fun. *shrug*

[Zebulous.2934]

53 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

 Try D4 or another multiplayer online game that's not an MMO instead, maybe? I hear Helldivers is fun. *shrug*

Helldivers is only available if you have a PlayStation Network account, even the steam version.  Sony got greedy and restricted access after Helldivers became popular.  There is a list of ineligible countries like 176 who lost access to the game on steam because of the PSN requirement. 
At least we know Anet isn't going to do such a thing.

[Zebulous.2934]

We have enemies who are immune to the burning condition, and enemies who are immune to bleeding.  Lol, they could make enemies that are immune to skyscale fireballs.

[Knighthonor.4061]

The sky can be it's own maps. That could be cool. Like One Piece sky kingdom. 

[StraightPath.3972]

@Knighthonor.4061 That is a great idea - as long as the sky isn't use to trivialize ground content.

I changed the title of topic to be less clickbaity and edited the content of first post to make it more clear and to the point.

[Gehenna.3625]

23 minutes ago, StraightPath.3972 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 That is a great idea - as long as the sky isn't use to trivialize ground content.

I changed the title of topic to be less clickbaity and edited the content of first post to make it more clear and to the point.

The thing is that you do raise a valid point, which is reflected in the new title. But you do make a lot of assumptions and then base your conclusions on those assumptions. I think that the biggest assumption is that this has completely escaped Anet's attention. Now, assumptions aren't always wrong but to base conclusions on assumptions is a very shaky foundation. And to present those conclusion as facts is problematic.

As a sidenote: use q or queue. Que is pronounced very differently - but that's just a personal gripe.

[Manpag.6421]

We still have no details about what the geography of the new maps will be like. We have maps in the game where skyscale doesn't give you much/any advantage, like Echovald. If Janthir is full of cliffs that warclaw smoothly and effortlessly climbs much faster than skyscale, people will use it, especially if there are also events/mechanics that need you to be mounted on warclaw. I think it's also easy to forget that skyscale is very reliant on map design to be effective. It either has to touch down regularly, or have updrafts/orbs/ley lines around to reset its flight meter, which were plentiful in SotO but I suspect there will be few to none in JW.

Speaking of orbs, if that mechanic continues (collecting valuable map currencies from latent magic), they'll probably be on the ground, like ley energy in Gyala Delves, again making land mounts more efficient to collect them.

In terms of population, though, they aren't going to set different population limits just to make the maps feel more "wild". If they were going to do that, they'd have done it in Nayos, which was meant to be a very small incursion with a select few Astral Ward they had spare. I do hope they tone down the NPC numbers, though. If there are fewer NPCs than SotO with less overworld dialogue, it'll automatically feel more isolated and wild.

[Teknomancer.4895]

31 minutes ago, Manpag.6421 said:

I do hope they tone down the NPC numbers, though. If there are fewer NPCs than SotO with less overworld dialogue, it'll automatically feel more isolated and wild.

Amen. If it's "wild" that implies sparsely populated, at best. And if there's a new social hub in the works it should be relatively compact and spartan, assuming the new homestead isn't going to serve that purpose somehow. If we end up in some shiny new Mursaatburg or whatever, with every single service available and packed with dozens of mostly redundant NPCs, how "wild" is that really? Something along the lines of Pride Point (Southsun), Pagga's Post (Orr) or Ember Bay (RoF) feels like the right kind of scale for an outpost in the "wilds."