Janthir Wilds - skyscales zergs will kill the immersion

[Echostorm.9143]

On 6/8/2024 at 12:30 PM, StraightPath.3972 said:

9.06.2024 - Changed title and streamlined the content of first post to make it less clickbaity and more to the point

Janthir Wilds trailer promises us wild, untamed and dangerous land.
The norse music, the wild scenery, the new enemies and weapon to tackle it's challenges..

Cue elevator music as zergs if not blobs of skyscale mounted players will just roll over the map,
leaving scorched air and smell of dragon farts behind them..

If trailer promises a wild, rugged, untamed and challenging land, then I hope a-net will translate this into gameplay,
with mechanics or/and restrictions preventing just zerging/flying over the content.

I think you might be happier playing a single player game if immersion is that important to you.  I can recommend Witcher 3 or Fable 3

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

Anet heard you loud and clear. Here, have these gazillion floating turrets ready to blast the Skyscales out of the sky. Oh, and did I mention they have to pop a notification every 5 seconds about how they have a "demonic shell"? 

[StraightPath.3972]

10 minutes ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Anet heard you loud and clear. Here, have these gazillion floating turrets ready to blast the Skyscales out of the sky. Oh, and did I mention they have to pop a notification every 5 seconds about how they have a "demonic shell"? 

Sorry I can't quite hear you, there's a Demonic Shell popup over this part of the screen you  see.
Gotta do some turret killing and popup closing first.

[willow.8209]

maybe an unpopular take but i avoid new content for the first few weeks or so, until it's less zerg-ey

and the initial bug fixes have been done

Edited Wednesday at 06:51 PM by willow.8209

[DeathPanel.8362]

On 6/13/2024 at 4:00 AM, Zok.4956 said:

It is not a question of fair or unfair. Players simply have different opinions about what would be good for the game and what they like in the game. Every opinion is legitimate.

Every game mechanic restricts players in some way.  Otherwise we would all play in "god mode" and it would be totally boring and there would be no progression.

I also think that in order to make Warclaw more relevant, other mounts have to be restricted in some way. The trick is to do it in a way that players have fun and don't see it as a step backwards. That's why I'm excited to see if and how Anet will manage this balancing act. 

 

BTW:  Each no-fly/no-mount zone in JPs represents a restriction on players' actions. Because otherwise the content would be trivialized even more.

It doesn't mean all opinions should be given equal weight, especially when different opinions contradict each other.

It's a terrible idea to restrict all other mounts just for the sake of artificially making Warclaws more relevant.  That doesn't result in more fun gameplay, that's simply making everything else worse to make what used to be suboptimal seem more viable.

[Gibson.4036]

On 6/8/2024 at 12:30 PM, StraightPath.3972 said:

9.06.2024 - Changed title and streamlined the content of first post to make it less clickbaity and more to the point

Janthir Wilds trailer promises us wild, untamed and dangerous land.
The norse music, the wild scenery, the new enemies and weapon to tackle it's challenges..

Cue elevator music as zergs if not blobs of skyscale mounted players will just roll over the map,
leaving scorched air and smell of dragon farts behind them..

If trailer promises a wild, rugged, untamed and challenging land, then I hope a-net will translate this into gameplay,
with mechanics or/and restrictions preventing just zerging/flying over the content.

Just wait a year. Then everyone will have moved on to the next expansion and you can enjoy your Wilds

[DeathPanel.8362]

On 6/13/2024 at 4:00 AM, Zok.4956 said:

BTW:  Each no-fly/no-mount zone in JPs represents a restriction on players' actions. Because otherwise the content would be trivialized even more.

I already addressed this in the post you responded to.  The restriction on mounts is a compromise to maintain the integrity of the JP.   There's no good reason to restrict it in the general open world in Janthir just to artificially make Warclaw more relevant.  It makes no sense and just simply feels bad from a gameplay perspective.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

On 6/9/2024 at 6:30 AM, Zebulous.2934 said:

We have enemies who are immune to the burning condition, and enemies who are immune to bleeding.  Lol, they could make enemies that are immune to skyscale fireballs.

Or enemies that specifically reflect Fireballs.
Ad some risk to the skyscale fireball meta 😄 

[Zok.4956]

9 hours ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

It doesn't mean all opinions should be given equal weight, especially when different opinions contradict each other.

It's a terrible idea to restrict all other mounts just for the sake of artificially making Warclaws more relevant.  That doesn't result in more fun gameplay, that's simply making everything else worse to make what used to be suboptimal seem more viable.

I already addressed this in the post you responded to. : I already wrote:  "The trick is to do it in a way that players have fun and don't see it as a step backwards."

If an idea is implemented well, if the result in the game works well, the idea was apparently good. We will only see what ideas Anet had and how they will be implemented after JW is released.

 

9 hours ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

I already addressed this in the post you responded to.  The restriction on mounts is a compromise to maintain the integrity of the JP.   There's no good reason to restrict it in the general open world in Janthir just to artificially make Warclaw more relevant.  It makes no sense and just simply feels bad from a gameplay perspective.

Since you haven't been able to play JW yet, you can't know how the compromises that Anet made regarding Warclaw boost and possible mount restrictions in JW feel. 

But it's a fact: The Warclaw is so bad in the open world compared to all other existing mounts that it either gets much better abilities than all other mounts, abilities that all other mounts don't have, or the other mounts have to be made worse (depending on the situation). Because Anet emphasized the Warclaw as a particularly highlighted mount in JW.

Just because I'm saying this doesn't mean that I think it's great or that I want to defend Anet. I can only judge how well (or badly) it was implemented after JW has been released.

 

[Veka.8710]

Honestly...they should just figure out a way to make all the other mounts more appealing to use, maybe somehow buff their engage skills (but don't break it like how folks use to 1 shot low level maps with raptor spam). It's a hard task but it you would definitely see people on it more. Maybe give the springer a skill to cannon itself to a location you select? Idk...lol, something, cause it's depressing to see that the other mounts outside of raptors being barely used by the mass. I don't think most ppl use springers outside of the cc.

Hopefully Janthir just have some areas where it's so dense and packed with trees that sky scales are a pain to fly in...or something like the brand storm area that only affect the skyscale but then again that would ruin the fun for a lot of folks. Alternatively just have snipers mob like they do in some maps that hits really hard so that it encourages you to use your dodge well like some folks said.

[DeathPanel.8362]

5 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

I already addressed this in the post you responded to. : I already wrote:  "The trick is to do it in a way that players have fun and don't see it as a step backwards."

If an idea is implemented well, if the result in the game works well, the idea was apparently good. We will only see what ideas Anet had and how they will be implemented after JW is released.

Except you haven't actually explained how that can even conceivably be done. 

[DeathPanel.8362]

5 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Since you haven't been able to play JW yet, you can't know how the compromises that Anet made regarding Warclaw boost and possible mount restrictions in JW feel. 

Any compromise that restricts other mounts is a compromise that I will not support.  

[Zok.4956]

2 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

Except you haven't actually explained how that can even conceivably be done. 

Why should I? The Warclaw changes for JW have already been implemented and nothing you or I say, support, or don't support will change that. So I'll just wait and see how Anet did it.

[Noidea Incognito.9607]

The only things that  counts as total immersion modes are Personal story and 5/10 man Instances. The whole openworld zerg thing is pretty much a social convention type of activity. 

GW1 didnt break immersion cause it was just you and a friend/heroes. Aside from that, Only Single player games would be tailored more towards real personal Immersion. 

Gw2 is way more interactive social like with its open-ended pve maps; therefore, a swarm of players can now enjoy killing treasure mushrooms together as they remove its blood from each others blade. Call it  "bonding moments" with  unknown adventurers that potentially could become your new best buddies/friends  , new nemesis/rivals or.... lovers. *rawrr!*

The skyscales(any mount really) are an extension of your Hero's arsenal. ofcourse fireballs will start flying around in this upcoming Xpac. Wont be the last time.

Restrictions on mount use mostly applies to the stuff that needs to be played without cheese; like jumping puzzles.

Just lower the population density and what not to hide immersion breakers and pretend all that awesome damage is being done by you alone.  o7

 

[DeathPanel.8362]

2 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Why should I? The Warclaw changes for JW have already been implemented and nothing you or I say, support, or don't support will change that. So I'll just wait and see how Anet did it.

I don't oppose the Warclaw changes.  I like that Warclaws are getting more abilities.  I oppose your proposal that OTHER MOUNTS be restricted to make Warclaw appear more viable.  That's asinine. 

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

I oppose your proposal that OTHER MOUNTS be restricted to make Warclaw appear more viable.  That's asinine. 

Don't read anything into my posts that I didn't write. There was no proposal. And then you won't come to the wrong conclusions or feel like you have to fight against things that weren't even said.

Edited Thursday at 05:35 PM by Zok.4956

[DeathPanel.8362]

  1 hour ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

I oppose your proposal that OTHER MOUNTS be restricted to make Warclaw appear more viable.  That's asinine. 

20 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Don't read anything into my posts that I didn't write. There was no proposal. And then you won't come to the wrong conclusions or feel like you have to fight against things that weren't even said.

 

On 6/13/2024 at 4:00 AM, Zok.4956 said:

I also think that in order to make Warclaw more relevant, other mounts have to be restricted in some way. The trick is to do it in a way that players have fun and don't see it as a step backwards. That's why I'm excited to see if and how Anet will manage this balancing act. 

Unless someone hijacked your keyboard and wrote it these were your words.  

[Thormano.7806]

After reading all the marktng hype of SOTO I bought it. I have been sooo disapointed. Maybe this expansion will be better but they seem to be building it around spear welding and homesteads. I didn't like the skiffs and fishing from EOD and I suspect this expansion will turn out the same as the other recent ones. I'm going to wait before I buy this time.

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

I oppose your proposal that OTHER MOUNTS be restricted to make Warclaw appear more viable.  That's asinine. 

Unless someone hijacked your keyboard and wrote it these were your words.  

Sure, I wrote "I also think that in order to make Warclaw more relevant, other mounts have to be restricted in some way. The trick is to do it in a way that players have fun and don't see it as a step backwards. That's why I'm excited to see if and how Anet will manage this balancing act. ".

That above is my opinion, but not a proposal.

And you shouldn't take things out of context, but I'll try to explain it to you in a little more detail with an example:

A quote from Anets press release:  "New and improved Warclaw: Bursting from the World-vs-World game mode, the Warclaw will join player mount stables as a new option for exploring the mountains and river valleys of Janthir, using its unique double-jump ability to navigate tough Terrain"

If the Warclaw is to be something special with its new abilities in JW, and not just an unimportant niche, it should have some advantages over the other mounts.

Why should players in JW use the Warclaw's double-jump instead of jumping with Raptor or Jackal or flying with Griffon or Skyscale? 

But because you can't make the Warclaw infinitely better (jump as far as a Raptor, jump as high as a Springer, fly/hover like a Skyscale,...) because then it would replace all other mounts, there would have to be something else. There would have to be some map / gameplay advantages (of the Warclaw) and in some way restrictions (of the other mounts). 

Just like the Springer's jump distance is restricted (so that the Raptor has an advantage) and the Raptor's jump height is restricted (so that the Springer has an advantage).
 

[DeathPanel.8362]

1 minute ago, Zok.4956 said:

Sure, I wrote "I also think that in order to make Warclaw more relevant, other mounts have to be restricted in some way. The trick is to do it in a way that players have fun and don't see it as a step backwards. That's why I'm excited to see if and how Anet will manage this balancing act. ".

That above is my opinion, but not a proposal.

That's pedantic.  However you label what you wrote, you wrote it, and that's what I responded to.  

I'll even revise my response  according to your new label:

I disagree with your opinion that OTHER MOUNTS be restricted to make Warclaw appear more viable.  That's asinine. 

 

[keyokku.5412]

new expansions tend to have mount design integrated already such as verticality and such, it will allow players on skyscales etc to still be integrated into it via exploring more of the vertical landscapes. for example Heart of Thorns or certain maps in EoD was confusing and treacherous even with flying mounts. it was hard to navigate even then. locations would often be under layers of stuff and you can't just fly to it.

idk how they'll design Janthir but with their previous experiences and context of existing mounts and expansions, I trust they won't make it easy to just fly through and steamroll content.

in fact even with my skyscale I don't think I've ever felt like it was like that on new expansion maps.

[Noidea Incognito.9607]

@DeathPanel.8362@Zok.4956

Ah... this must be one of those "bonding moments" i was talking about! o/

[DeathPanel.8362]

22 hours ago, Noidea Incognito.9607 said:

The only things that  counts as total immersion modes are Personal story and 5/10 man Instances. The whole openworld zerg thing is pretty much a social convention type of activity. 

GW1 didnt break immersion cause it was just you and a friend/heroes. Aside from that, Only Single player games would be tailored more towards real personal Immersion. 

Gw2 is way more interactive social like with its open-ended pve maps; therefore, a swarm of players can now enjoy killing treasure mushrooms together as they remove its blood from each others blade. Call it  "bonding moments" with  unknown adventurers that potentially could become your new best buddies/friends  , new nemesis/rivals or.... lovers. *rawrr!*

The skyscales(any mount really) are an extension of your Hero's arsenal. ofcourse fireballs will start flying around in this upcoming Xpac. Wont be the last time.

Restrictions on mount use mostly applies to the stuff that needs to be played without cheese; like jumping puzzles.

Just lower the population density and what not to hide immersion breakers and pretend all that awesome damage is being done by you alone.  o7

 

I agree.

Do you know what breaks immersion far more?  Getting your existing mounts nerfed or restricted in some way in the expansion zone just so that Warclaws appears more viable.

People will not like Warclaws more if they make it the Tonya Harding of mounts.

Edited yesterday at 02:08 PM by DeathPanel.8362