The Max Swim Speed Infusion Exists in the Game... But is Impossible to Obtain

[Chichimec.9364]

On 6/30/2024 at 6:23 AM, Gazrul.3086 said:

It's a useless addition to the game. I simply ignore it. Small swim speed increase doesn't matter anywhere. 

This entire event is a pointless waste of time in my opinion. 

 

23 hours ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

There aren't even enough swim infusions that exists to even make one. That_Shaman also said you'd have to farm the million yourself after buying them all.

I've opened 940 chests before this recent update and I only had enough to make four +20s. I gave up years ago when I realized I had to do what I did up to that point 1,020 times over.

Personally, I don't know why anyone is stressing out about this. Swim-speed is of such limited usefulness, I don't see much point in bothering with the infusions either. The only things I see so far that might...and I do mean might...change that is if Anet changes the mechanics of underwater speed and/or adds underwater content in WJ that makes swim-speed important. Otherwise, as I've said before, superspeed does as well as, or far better, than those infusions. I will check out the Sunken Treasure event today to see if there are any indications of meaningful swim-speed changes and I'll wait for WJ to drop before making a final decision of my own. For now though, the ridiculous price of the high level infusions don't bother me in the slightest.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Movement speed cap: 400  u/s
Combat movement speed: 210 u/s
Out of Combat movement speed: 294 u/s
+10 swim speed & Swiftness = 382.2 u/s | 273 u/s (OoC | IC)
Skimmer: 550 u/s under water, 850 u/s water's surface.
Skiff: 300 / 600 / 800 (Cruise Gear 1, 2, 3) / 1000 (turbo boost) u/s

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_Speed#Underwater 

I have no idea what the worth of these infusions even *are* as the usecase of the speed is so niche and the one spot I think it'd be useful you could do it cheaper for a singular relic swap and a boon that's more common than spike drops in WvW.

[Zera.9435]

Meh, skimmer is all I need.

[starlinvf.1358]

On 6/30/2024 at 7:44 PM, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

What do those have to do with anything?  They rain like crazy in Path of Fire and have very little in the way of use.

Swim speed infusions drop 2-4 at a time from chests with a collection reset and require absurd numbers.

Exactly.  but they weren’t always that way.  On POF launch they were in huge demand, despite a high acquisition rate.  Eventually everyone who was done crafting what they needed, eyes devalued into trash loot.  In the recent festival updates, food drops were trash loot, with wintersday food having a bit of value due to karma boost.  When research notes happened, food value skyrocketed. 

If you want a more basic example, transmutation charges and spirt shards are in short supply for new or farm accounts.  For older and players who don’t craft, spirit shards ate in abundance.  And people who merely dabble in pvp and wvw have a bunch of transmutation charges in their wallets  

The point is that if you look at sustained demand, people will either give up on it, or chip away at swim infusions over time.  You don’t NEED 30% swim speed.  You can barely justify the investment for 25% swim speed. It was never important before, so why is it being treated as meta required now? 

[Chichimec.9364]

6 hours ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

 

Personally, I don't know why anyone is stressing out about this. Swim-speed is of such limited usefulness, I don't see much point in bothering with the infusions either. The only things I see so far that might...and I do mean might...change that is if Anet changes the mechanics of underwater speed and/or adds underwater content in WJ that makes swim-speed important. Otherwise, as I've said before, superspeed does as well as, or far better, than those infusions. I will check out the Sunken Treasure event today to see if there are any indications of meaningful swim-speed changes and I'll wait for WJ to drop before making a final decision of my own. For now though, the ridiculous price of the high level infusions don't bother me in the slightest.

Well, the Sunken Treasure event seems pretty "meh" so far. Other than giving a free key and 150 AA for opening 10 chests, it doesn't seem to add anything new or interesting. I am disappointed as I had thought it might give some kind of underwater events and maybe even a way to get more than 2-3 infusions at a time. And there is no indication of any kind of improved utility for these hilariously, outrageously expensive infusions.

EDIT: This post is very wrong. Check the next post to see the correct info.

Edited July 2 by Chichimec.9364

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

Well, the Sunken Treasure event seems pretty "meh" so far. Other than giving a free key and 150 AA for opening 10 chests, it doesn't seem to add anything new or interesting. I am disappointed as I had thought it might give some kind of underwater events and maybe even a way to get more than 2-3 infusions at a time. And there is no indication of any kind of improved utility for these hilariously, outrageously expensive infusions.

It gives more keys -for opening each of the chests for the first time- and you need to open 30 for 150 aa. +infused exotic aqbreather, exotic spear and 1 account swim infusion. I think it's well within expectations, not sure what else there was to do with "open chests!" event.

Edited July 2 by Sobx.1758

[Chichimec.9364]

17 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It gives more keys -for opening each of the chests for the first time- and you need to open 30 for 150 aa. +infused exotic aqbreather, exotic spear and 1 account swim infusion. I think it's well within expectations, not sure what else there was to do with "open chests!" event.

Ah, much thank for the correction. Am now looking for where you got that info.

EDIT: Found it!   My bad for not looking more carefully before shooting my mouth off.  😂

 

Edited July 2 by Chichimec.9364

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I kinda wish they would have updated the contents of the chests.  Add a uncommon chance at getting a +15, a rare chance to get a +20 and super rare chance to get a +25. Right now anything past +15 is just burning money just to burn it. anything past a +20 is a fools errant. As someone who likes account update, still buy the no RoI + gold find upgrades from the WV, I like this system in general, but unfortunately the dev that designed this system seems not be very good at math, because the numbers are just way too high. Out of boredom I might make a +25, eventually in 10 years.

 

[Heibi.4251]

This reminds me of the old yak slapper title. 1,000,000 yaks. Just like that achievement it will take years to get this completed. Do they ever look at the numbers for these things?

[Infusion.7149]

It is possible they will end up as cheap as agony infusions in the new expansion if almost all the content is in the water.

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 6/29/2024 at 7:29 AM, Zebulous.2934 said:

I assume that the expansion will provide a source of swimspeed infusions.  It is an archipelago after all.  We got swimsuits, the spear is now amphibious.  Water will be present.  

We just have to wait and see how Anet will make the infusions available.  I am sure that the new method, or methods for obtaining swimspeed infusions will be heavily criticized.

A source of 1 million swim speed infusions?  I have to agree with the others here.  This is really just a dumb thing to have.  I get that nobody really cares about swim speed, but why even have it if you're going to do it like this?

[Danikat.8537]

7 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It is possible they will end up as cheap as agony infusions in the new expansion if almost all the content is in the water.

There's no indications that all, or even most, the new expansion takes place underwater. As far as I remember everything we've seen is on land, the only time they've shown us something underwater it was the character swimming with a spear before emerging onto land in the land spear reveal.

Also new underwater content would actually make swim speed infusions more expensive, because it would increase demand but wouldn't increase the supply. You don't get them just by playing underwater, only from a few specific chests (and achievements for opening those chests). You can't play Fractals without getting agony infusions, whereas it would be easy to spend a lot of time underwater and never get a swim speed infusion.

Although they are similar in that according to the Wiki no one has ever made an agony infusion bigger than +24 and the biggest one currently on the TP is +18, selling for 3,555g (and they've been in the game much longer than swim speed infusions). Apparently it would take a total of 536,870,911 thermocatalytic reagent and 536,870,912 +1 agony infusions to make 1 +30 agony infusion, at a current cost of 10,576,356g 94s and 85c. (That's more gold, or items, than a player can hold, but you do it in stages, the final recipe is just 2 +29 infusions and 1 reagent.) Importantly though you only need a maxmimum of 150 agony resistance in Fractals and can get more than that with +9 infusions, with the added benefit that those can have additional stats, so the bigger ones are pretty pointless.

Anet said when Fractals was introduced that it was supposed to be a self-contained system for people who want a constant progression system. Ascended equipment eventually crept out to become something available and used everywhere (although still not required for most things) but agony resistance is still just for Fractals. The similarity is making me more convinced the swim speed infusions were designed to be a very long-term, practically infinite, goal for people who want to always have something to work towards while being something most players can safely ignore.

[Luthan.5236]

Imo it should be as accessible as the most expensive legendaries are. Maybe twice the amount (worth in gold). Not tooo extreme though. At max I can see it be like 1-2 super expensive infusions. (that hit the 10k on TP ... max 20k).

It also should not be too cheap to still get people to play the content. The new system probably wanted to give people a bette reason trying to reach it (when they need the unlock only once and all chars just get the cheap normal thing that auto-boosts to the highest unlock). Which ... can make the prices go higher actually. (When more people want to do it.)

Two-sided thing: It will be interesting for (new) players to farm for infisions of they sell well. (Until prices drop.) On the other hand they can't just drop endlessly like with a totally useless  item. Making it harder to max. The idea probably was that ... once the first people maxed ... less will buy it. (Prices dropping again to a stable value where still people farm and others buy.)

I could see myself working to get at least the 25 one. The 20 upgrade easy ... yeah. But not the 30 atm. Would be a lengthy process I guess. Slooooowly working on it. They should have considered another upgrade path there maybe? (And still including the small steps 26, 27, 28, 29 there - for the way to 30. Maybe combining it with some fancy achievements/collections to unlock - instead of only having to spend money? :D)

[Shadowmoon.7986]

A +25 requires 32.7k swim infusions to craft, which is similar to the cost of a chak egg Sac. I have a +22 from before this update, and 1k infusions in the bank this is from years of hording and doing the sunken chests. And I am still alittle under 27k infusions short. So anyone thinking +25 is doable for the average player, it is not.

[Zok.4956]

2 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

A +25 requires 32.7k swim infusions to craft, which is similar to the cost of a chak egg Sac. I have a +22 from before this update, and 1k infusions in the bank this is from years of hording and doing the sunken chests. And I am still alittle under 27k infusions short. So anyone thinking +25 is doable for the average player, it is not.

The swimming infusions with the event are obviously not about "average players" getting an account-wide +25.

The target group is likely to be rich players with lots of alts who otherwise don't know what to do with their gold and who don't mind that the very small advantage in the game through a slightly higher swimming speed has to be bought with a lot of gold.

And another target group are players who collect and sell the +10 infusions because they have an easy source of gold.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

16 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

The swimming infusions with the event are obviously not about "average players" getting an account-wide +25.

The target group is likely to be rich players with lots of alts who otherwise don't know what to do with their gold and who don't mind that the very small advantage in the game through a slightly higher swimming speed has to be bought with a lot of gold.

And another target group are players who collect and sell the +10 infusions because they have an easy source of gold.

Well looking at OTC, there appears very little activity with swimming infusions,  I honestly doubt rich players are buying these upgrades because frankly they are rich because they tend not to buy these foolish items.  So the question come who are dumb enough to buy these infusions at the volume to keep the supply down and price high, and I would say it is the average player who are foolishly buying 450g worth of materials for a +20 upgrade, not knowing of the 400 unit per second speed cap, which is lower than skimmers speed cap. 

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

On 7/2/2024 at 4:32 AM, Chichimec.9364 said:

 

Personally, I don't know why anyone is stressing out about this. Swim-speed is of such limited usefulness, I don't see much point in bothering with the infusions either. The only things I see so far that might...and I do mean might...change that is if Anet changes the mechanics of underwater speed and/or adds underwater content in WJ that makes swim-speed important. Otherwise, as I've said before, superspeed does as well as, or far better, than those infusions. I will check out the Sunken Treasure event today to see if there are any indications of meaningful swim-speed changes and I'll wait for WJ to drop before making a final decision of my own. For now though, the ridiculous price of the high level infusions don't bother me in the slightest.

People are stressing about it because how long until they implement this sort of math to literally anything else in the game?

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

On 7/1/2024 at 9:40 PM, fable spirt.8465 said:

So your saying your rich now. Convert to the new Account +15 and upgrade with 1 +20 and sell the other 3 on TP or trading company for roughly 900g profit.

I did sell them and made a pretty penny. Still not rich enough to be rich now.

[Chichimec.9364]

On 7/2/2024 at 6:32 AM, Chichimec.9364 said:

 

Personally, I don't know why anyone is stressing out about this. Swim-speed is of such limited usefulness, I don't see much point in bothering with the infusions either...

 

9 hours ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

People are stressing about it because how long until they implement this sort of math to literally anything else in the game?

Ah, that is an excellent point. I sure hope this is not a precedent for a new kind of  bowdlerized legendary.

[Sobx.1758]

14 hours ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

People are stressing about it because how long until they implement this sort of math to literally anything else in the game?

But those same infusions with the same numbers were in the game for years now. There's more keys to consistently acquire every week. The total number of needed infusions remains the same for one character, but the number of infusions needed for higher value infusions is lower now if you're using it on more than 1 character and... now people are stressing about it? I have to say that I don't get it. I guess those people were not aware those infusions were already in the game this whole time?

Edited July 4 by Sobx.1758

[Chichimec.9364]

35 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But those same infusions with the same numbers were in the game for years now. There's more keys to consistently acquire every week. The total number of needed infusions remains the same for one character, but the number of infusions needed for higher value infusions is lower now if you're using it on more than 1 character and... now people are stressing about it? I have to say that I don't get it. I guess those people were not aware those infusions were already in the game this whole time?

Yes, the swim-speed infusions and their math have been there for years. The account swim-speed infusions are brand new though. And even though the number of infusions needed for higher value buffs on more than one character is a lot lower, once you get to +25 and +30 buffs, the cost is far, far greater than any existing legendary. Of course one doesn't have to buy account bound infusions or go after the higher level buffs. The concern though is if this is a precedent for a new way of gearing? I sure hope not.

[Sobx.1758]

46 minutes ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

Yes, the swim-speed infusions and their math have been there for years. The account swim-speed infusions are brand new though. And even though the number of infusions needed for higher value buffs on more than one character is a lot lower, once you get to +25 and +30 buffs, the cost is far, far greater than any existing legendary. Of course one doesn't have to buy account bound infusions or go after the higher level buffs. The concern though is if this is a precedent for a new way of gearing? I sure hope not.

I know the account bonus swim infusion design is new, but all it means is that they reduced number of needed swim infusions for more than one character (and that number lowers at +20 already, not just 25/30). I doubt it's "a precedent for a new way of gearing" since the number didn't get bigger, it stayed the same and got lower in case of using them on more than one character. The point is that if someone's worried about that "precedent", they should have been worried for years. I still don't get why now it's blown up when at worst case the number remained the same.

And for clarity: I'm not trying to defend that number, what I'm saying is that number isn't new. This is not the precedent -or at least not a new one. It also helps this is about swim infusions which basically almost nobody (and as far as I'm aware, rightfully) ever cared about.

[Chichimec.9364]

38 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I know the account bonus swim infusion design is new, but all it means is that they reduced number of needed swim infusions for more than one character (and that number lowers at +20 already, not just 25/30). I doubt it's "a precedent for a new way of gearing" since the number didn't get bigger, it stayed the same and got lower in case of using them on more than one character. The point is that if someone's worried about that "precedent", they should have been worried for years. I still don't get why now it's blown up when at worst case the number remained the same.

And for clarity: I'm not trying to defend that number, what I'm saying is that number isn't new. This is not the precedent -or at least not a new one. It also helps this is about swim infusions which basically almost nobody (and as far as I'm aware, rightfully) ever cared about.

Well, this is a case where I very much hope you are right and I am wrong. There are three reasons why I am concerned about a precedent. The first is because the account bonus design is a new gearing system. Instead of a legendary item which any of your appropriate alts can equip, you need to buy a separate item for each alt and then upgrade the account bonus. The second reason I'm concerned is that this comes after the introduction of the legendary relic, which was already a change from the previous one and done legendaries. The third reason I'm concerned is the timing of the Sunken Treasure event. Why is Anet focusing attention on the long-neglected  swim-speed infusions so close to the drop of the new expansion? Is there something so far unannounced in the Wilds of Janthir that will make the new gearing system relevant there? All three of these things make me wonder if Anet is thinking about more changes to the gearing system. Since I already have a full set of legendaries except for Aurora and Vision, the thought of changes to that system makes me wince.

[Sobx.1758]

18 minutes ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

The first is because the account bonus design is a new gearing system. Instead of a legendary item which any of your appropriate alts can equip, you need to buy a separate item for each alt and then upgrade the account bonus.

Once again: yes, it is a new design, but what that new design does is soften the already existing requirements. I'm not sure if we're talking past each other or maybe I simply don't understand the point that's being made with this mention and -as far as I'm aware- I already addressed in a similar way I'm doing right now.
It's not a new design that somehow comes up with additional requirements or the one that's increasing the number. It does the opposite. At this point I'm requisting a direct confirmation that what I just wrote is understandable. 😄 

18 minutes ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

The second reason I'm concerned is that this comes after the introduction of the legendary relic, which was already a change from the previous one and done legendaries. The third reason I'm concerned is the timing of the Sunken Treasure event. Why is Anet focusing attention on the long-neglected  swim-speed infusions so close to the drop of the new expansion? Is there something so far unannounced in the Wilds of Janthir that will make the new gearing system relevant there? All three of these things make me wonder if Anet is thinking about more changes to the gearing system. Since I already have a full set of legendaries except for Aurora and Vision, the thought of changes to that system makes me wince.

I don't think the swim infusion change is a precent to legendaries. The relic change/introduction was -and I can understand the reaction that one.

Edited July 4 by Sobx.1758

[Chichimec.9364]

14 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Once again: yes, it is a new design, but what that new design does is soften the already existing requirements. I'm not sure if we're talking past each other or maybe I simply don't understand the point that's being made with this mention and -as far as I'm aware- I already addressed in a similar way I'm doing right now.
It's not a new design that somehow comes up with additional requirements or the one that's increasing the number. It does the opposite. At this point I'm requisting a direct confirmation that what I just wrote is understandable. 😄 

I don't think the swim infusion change is a precent to legendaries. The relic change/introduction was -and I can understand the reaction that one.

Hehe, we do seem to be missing each other's points don't we? Yes, it is understandable that it is not a new system that adds new requirements or that increases the existing ones. Yes, this new system does do the opposite, softening the already existing requirements. The question in my mind is if, like the relics, Anet is once again experimenting with the gearing system, possibly indicating more changes along these lines in the future. I really, really do hope you are right, Sobx, that there is no precedent being set here, but only time will tell.