Almost one-shotting...

[Flatley.1620]

Hello.

I've recently been getting back into the game and playing quite a lot after a long hiatus of not really doing much at all. And I'm talking years 😄

During a few Silverwastes (is it right to call it a meta? I've never really been sure of such things) events, I've seen some players really taking down the enemies in double quick time - sometimes one-shotting them, sometimes doing extreme damage to multiple enemies.

My own characters have never been capable of such feats so I was wondering what it takes to one to such dizzying heights of damage given.

My main four characters (Mechanist, Untamed, Reaper and, very recently, Vindicator) are fully in ascended gear (which took an absolute age to do and completely bankrupted me) following various guidelines about what builds etc. are most suitable for open-world PvE.

Is this why my mains, capable as they are, not up to the same calibre as those I've seen as the other players have geared/built their chars for raids, fractals etc?

Thanks.

PS

I've never been involved in a guild and run around solo.

[AliamRationem.5172]

For Untamed, try this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POABwelnllyOYqsNmLOUL5x7SE+JA-DSRYBxnJcQZlRtpaFVlt3GCSY83ywzAQFA-e 

Edit: Sorry, forgot this clip didn't have a build link.  Added at the top of the post.

Edited July 15 by AliamRationem.5172

[Randulf.7614]

Gear tier - or armour tier specifically - isn't the defining factor since exotic is pretty much going to give the same results in open world. The more important things are

- The traits you pick

- The weapon that works best for you

- The stat combos that pull all that together

I'm not keen on the idea of advocating following build guides. Going with one isn't going to instantly make anyone better unless you understand all it's fundamentals and practice constantly with it. A lot of the players are doing high damage simply because they are used to smashing through with confidence with experience and builds they are used to and they are used to it in areas with enemies that have much higher HP and difficulties. A lot will use glass cannon builds to annihilate things, but are so used to them, they can cut through without worrying about taking damage anymore in these earlier areas

Don't get too hung up on build guides. Experiment and adapt to your style and practice. And play a variety of content to continue learning

[Tinker.6924]

There's also a difference between condition damage builds and power (strike) damage builds. 

Read up on the differences between Strike (power) damage and Condition damage here. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

If you run a condition damage build, you will RARELY 1-shot anything even relatively weak monsters because your damage takes time to accumulate, whereas you can 1-shot a lot of weak stuff with power builds and most of what you encounter in the open world will be weak stuff.  Weak things will still go down quickly with conditions, just not as quickly as power-builds.  However, if a fight has a lot of movement, either you running to avoid mechanics or the target jumping everywhere, condition damage will usually be faster to kill than power damage, because your attacks keep killing even when you are not hitting whereas power builds need to keep hitting to keep killing and every moment they can't attack because of movement is a moment they do no damage.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

22 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Gear tier - or armour tier specifically - isn't the defining factor since exotic is pretty much going to give the same results in open world. The more important things are

- The traits you pick

- The weapon that works best for you

- The stat combos that pull all that together

I'm not keen on the idea of advocating following build guides. Going with one isn't going to instantly make anyone better unless you understand all it's fundamentals and practice constantly with it. A lot of the players are doing high damage simply because they are used to smashing through with confidence with experience and builds they are used to and they are used to it in areas with enemies that have much higher HP and difficulties. A lot will use glass cannon builds to annihilate things, but are so used to them, they can cut through without worrying about taking damage anymore in these earlier areas

Don't get too hung up on build guides. Experiment and adapt to your style and practice. And play a variety of content to continue learning

While that's all true, the OP is specifically inquiring as to how players are one-shotting trash mobs in open world.  That is entirely down to build design.  The OP has been following open world build guides, many of which recommend condition builds that are incapable of doing this and prioritize sustain over damage.  Using a power build like the one in the linked video will give them what they're looking for.  While it's beyond the scope of the OP's request and, as you say, will require some practice to achieve best results, this build is also quite strong on sustain and is more than capable of soloing most open world champions.

[Passerbye.6291]

I doubt anyone is building vindi for condi but then again people slap celestial on anything these days and think it is a "build". "Guides" with clickbait titles don't help either.
All in all, even for open world, there is very little reason to go tanky anymore, especially considering Relic of Zakiros exists and turns any power build with decent self fury uptime into a self sustain beast at the cost of 5-7% damage.

[AliamRationem.5172]

8 minutes ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

I doubt anyone is building vindi for condi but then again people slap celestial on anything these days and think it is a "build". "Guides" with clickbait titles don't help either.
All in all, even for open world, there is very little reason to go tanky anymore, especially considering Relic of Zakiros exists and turns any power build with decent self fury uptime into a self sustain beast at the cost of 5-7% damage.

Lord Hizen's builds are still quite popular and I think his condi vindicator is still one of the highest sustain builds out there.  I agree Relic of Zakiros has been a game changer for power builds in solo play, adding a lot of sustain to builds that previously didn't have enough.  But the nature of it requires a fast, aggressive play style that produces better results for more experienced players who are comfortable with their builds and the combat system in general.  It's the same reason experienced players look at Litany of Wrath and see a short-cooldown pseudo-invuln + full heal while a less experienced player might view it as that weak heal that gets them killed all the time.  It's not as foolproof as spamming dodge on a build with tons of extra health and armor while passively healing faster than enemies can damage you.  To a lot of players that's worth more than the extra damage of a power DPS build.  That and power builds with poor boon access don't even deal any better damage than condi builds.

[Passerbye.6291]

3 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Lord Hizen's builds are still quite popular and I think his condi vindicator is still one of the highest sustain builds out there.  I agree Relic of Zakiros has been a game changer for power builds in solo play, adding a lot of sustain to builds that previously didn't have enough.  But the nature of it requires a fast, aggressive play style that produces better results for more experienced players who are comfortable with their builds and the combat system in general.  It's the same reason experienced players look at Litany of Wrath and see a short-cooldown pseudo-invuln + full heal while a less experienced player might view it as that weak heal that gets them killed all the time.  It's not as foolproof as spamming dodge on a build with tons of extra health and armor while passively healing faster than enemies can damage you.  To a lot of players that's worth more than the extra damage of a power DPS build.  That and power builds with poor boon access don't even deal any better damage than condi builds.

I've seen people die on staff mirage, so anything is possible I guess.

[AliamRationem.5172]

20 minutes ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

I've seen people die on staff mirage, so anything is possible I guess.

I mean, I'm pretty sure I could die of old age soloing a champion on staff mirage.  It's a thing!

[taara.3217]

7 hours ago, Flatley.1620 said:

I've seen some players really taking down the enemies in double quick time - sometimes one-shotting them, sometimes doing extreme damage to multiple enemies.

it says nothing neither about build's strength no player's skillfulness) 

if your goal is to really improve your personally skills - try champs/bounty solo content, because knowing relevant game's mechanics and your ability to use it is the same of importance as good build - it's a long way for sure, but no any magic bullet

you can use any prof - any you like more (condi builds are more prefferable option for beginners)

when you'll make the choice - just ask here "Hey, looking for real solo PVE build for Vindicator (eg)" (btw, to get real strong Vindi solo build you can ping Buran.3796)

PS btw, you can even try to really improve you skills during your levelling from the ground up, because some of the champs are soloable at about 30-40 lvl...

Edited July 15 by taara.3217

[Cyninja.2954]

Things to consider on top of what others have said:

1. difference of strike versus condition damage. Condition damage will bypass any toughness enemies might have. Some of those mordrem in the Silverwastes have higher than usual toughness values. Enemies have varying amounts of toughness in all content from open world to raids

2. damage in this game has multiplicative growth, meaning if you stack multiple damage increasing effects your resulting output will be a lot higher

3. following up on 2: boons. If able to pre-stack 25 might and fury, resulting damage will be significantly higher on apha, with quickness follow-up skills will be faster

4. ascended gear while maxed on stats makes a HUGE difference on which stats are selected. Most common open world builds are designed with some stat distribution in mind which might not be focused on maximum damage. Being full celestial while in general a decent choice for easy open world jack-of-all builds will obviously produced less burst than full berserker or a full power set

5. finally: build. Which weapons are used, which traits are selected down to which utility skills are run will make a huge difference on what performance one can expect (tying in with what I said earlier about modifiers being multiplicative)

TL;DR:

In general being able to 1-shot enemies, especially in core Tyria which has become VERY dated content, is just a matter of maximizing damage output. To do so it's important to understand HOW damage is being calculated in this game to begin with.

Edited July 16 by Cyninja.2954

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

-Me Warrior.
-Me learn to be Bladesworn.
-Me use Dragon Slash on Legendary Bounty.
-Deal 10 million damage and complete bounty instantly.
-Me happy, life is good!!

[Buran.3796]

My two cents:

* For power builds, Ranger is now very tanky while able to deal massive burst damage; Bladesworn is similar, but both the damage and the heals or the damage and cc is focused sin single powerful attacks which, if they miss, both your dps and sustain goes down the toilet. Reaper has also extremely strong power dps while having plenty of sustain.

* Outside that, I'm not that sure that going glass canon power  works well while playing alone. A full damage Deadeye deletes veterans in a couple of seconds, but is mostly single target and can die with a couple of mistakes, whereas a condi Deadeye has much better sustain and stronger AoE damage. Mark FN has great videos soloing bounties as power DH at record speed, but how many times you have to die until you learn the perfect way to play againt a given hard foe?  I don't see  too many videos of power Warriors, Engineers, Mesmers or Eles soloing bounties or large coral events. I'm not saying "it can't be done", I'm saying that for most people the safe and slower way will be easier.

   Also, I don't see the problem with tanky builds (speacially at solo): they are absolutely the meta at WvW at the moment; celestial is massive because the offensive stats give damage enough while the deffensive ones provide room for mistakes. And the more time you're alive, the more you learn...

[bq pd.2148]

12 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

* For power builds, Ranger is now very tanky while able to deal massive burst damage; Bladesworn is similar, but both the damage and the heals or the damage and cc is focused sin single powerful attacks which, if they miss, both your dps and sustain goes down the toilet. Reaper has also extremely strong power dps while having plenty of sustain.

* Outside that, I'm not that sure that going glass canon power  works well while playing alone. A full damage Deadeye deletes veterans in a couple of seconds, but is mostly single target and can die with a couple of mistakes, whereas a condi Deadeye has much better sustain and stronger AoE damage.

as OP was specifically about Silverwastes, nothing there has much sustain.
deadeye on full power but a build with BQoBK and collateral damage instead of the instance builds will do decently there but not as good as say..a reaper.

 when i farm some shovels for guildhall and get bored of reaper there, i first switch to power mirage.
with GS one can delete larger groups of enemies from afar almost instantly with an ambush and as that is predictable one would use a stamina sigil for instant endurance refill to gain unlimited power beams, while being untouchable.

[Flatley.1620]

This is all really helpful. Thank you, all!

[Cuks.8241]

Press the correct buttons in right order and fast.

Yeah a good build and understanding is important. But this is a fast paced game, execution is key.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Specifically for most power builds, Berserker gear is the best damage output, while Celestial gear is an all around stat spread that most professions can use well, with a few exceptions. Going for something in between, with a damage focus and some sustain, check out Marauder and Dragon gear. Both will give you a lot of extra health with only a minor decrease in damage.

The trade-off is that they are much more expensive than Berserker gear, but the general rule of thumb is to start off with the sustain gear and replace pieces with berserkers as you get more comfortable with the build.

For builds, each profession has optimal trait lines, utilities, and weapons for power damage. Metabattle, Hardstuck, and Snowcrows all have OW builds on their websites you can use as templates to get started.

[AliamRationem.5172]

48 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Specifically for most power builds, Berserker gear is the best damage output, while Celestial gear is an all around stat spread that most professions can use well, with a few exceptions. Going for something in between, with a damage focus and some sustain, check out Marauder and Dragon gear. Both will give you a lot of extra health with only a minor decrease in damage.

The trade-off is that they are much more expensive than Berserker gear, but the general rule of thumb is to start off with the sustain gear and replace pieces with berserkers as you get more comfortable with the build.

For builds, each profession has optimal trait lines, utilities, and weapons for power damage. Metabattle, Hardstuck, and Snowcrows all have OW builds on their websites you can use as templates to get started.

To offer a different perspective.  Vitality as sustain is a weak option.  If you look at vitality as extending your time until down state, it works against itself by reducing your damage output.  You last a bit longer, but you also take longer to finish fights.  Dragon can be useful in cases where you are crit capped and would like to trade some precision for ferocity, but otherwise I would recommend finding higher impact sustain from skills, traits, relics, etc.  For example, the Relic of Zakiros works better the more damage you deal, so you get maximum return for using berserker gear with it.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

To offer a different perspective.  Vitality as sustain is a weak option.  If you look at vitality as extending your time until down state, it works against itself by reducing your damage output.  You last a bit longer, but you also take longer to finish fights.  Dragon can be useful in cases where you are crit capped and would like to trade some precision for ferocity, but otherwise I would recommend finding higher impact sustain from skills, traits, relics, etc.  For example, the Relic of Zakiros works better the more damage you deal, so you get maximum return for using berserker gear with it.

Depends on the type of damage you are taking. Toughness is better for strike damage, and vitality is better for condition damage. Sure most damage is strike, but gear with power and toughness are not great. Vitality still offers far more sustain than the minor gain from Zakiros on zerker gear, especially if you are having trouble staying alive or want a more comfortable experience.

Edit: Oh, sorry, I forgot to address a major, and good, point you brought up. I don't look at vitality as extending my time until downed/defeat. I look at it as as an extra buffer to weather the enemy burst, and then replensish that buffer before the next burst. Like player damage, most protracted encounters where sustain is a factor, enemy damage is rarely a constant drain on your health.

Edited July 22 by Gaiawolf.8261

[AliamRationem.5172]

56 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Depends on the type of damage you are taking. Toughness is better for strike damage, and vitality is better for condition damage. Sure most damage is strike, but gear with power and toughness are not great. Vitality still offers far more sustain than the minor gain from Zakiros on zerker gear, especially if you are having trouble staying alive or want a more comfortable experience.

Edit: Oh, sorry, I forgot to address a major, and good, point you brought up. I don't look at vitality as extending my time until downed/defeat. I look at it as as an extra buffer to weather the enemy burst, and then replensish that buffer before the next burst. Like player damage, most protracted encounters where sustain is a factor, enemy damage is rarely a constant drain on your health.

I can see filling in a few slots with dragon to min/max your crit cap.  But giving up over 200 power and over 300 ferocity for 6.3k health is never going to be worth it in PvE. There are always going to be more efficient tradeoffs you can make to source sustain.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

17 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I can see filling in a few slots with dragon to min/max your crit cap.  But giving up over 200 power and over 300 ferocity for 6.3k health is never going to be worth it in PvE. There are always going to be more efficient tradeoffs you can make to source sustain.

More efficient? Most probably, if/when you reach the skill level to capitalize on it.  More comfy? Not likely. Sustain sets generally offer slightly less efficient, safer playstyles for those that prefer it. Or slot as training wheels as needed to work your way up to zerkers, like I said originally. At least in PvE.