CELE Harbinger

[Galmac.4680]

I cannot see that cele harbs are invincible. I play one because I didn‘t want to be killed instantly as before. With almost no defense, no blocks, no invuln, no stability and no extra life from shroud you just have your health pool. And I am still killed often enough by stun warriors, even reaper necros, or longbow rangers with too much immob, or by perma stealth thiefs or some broken engis. If you know the necro spec you know their weak spots. That‘s it. End of discussion.

 

[Zyreva.1078]

40 minutes ago, Galmac.4680 said:

I cannot see that cele harbs are invincible.

Nothing is invincible when played by bad players.

40 minutes ago, Galmac.4680 said:

I play one because I didn‘t want to be killed instantly as before.

So you just admitted, that you play one, because you want to get carried by an op build ...

40 minutes ago, Galmac.4680 said:

If you know the necro spec you know their weak spots.

Well yes, but in case of cele harb that weak spot is usually the player. And what if that weak spot is suddenly not there?

5 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Power burst with a bit of mobility shuts cele harb down quite easily.

I never felt threatened by any power build in 1vs1 when playing cele harb (Edit: actually not entirely true, i did get bursted down by a power mirage once, but that was just me not paying attention at all and i did win every other fighs vs that player) and i wouldn't say i'm particulary good at playing it and i also find them much harder to kill on power compared to a cele vs cele matchup. Willbender for example - which is the epitome of "power burst with mobility" i found very easy to deal with.

Power builds do not have enough dmg to punch through perma prot, weakness, decent health and 3k+ armor while still maintaining enough sustain/defense to not die to simple auto attacks. The only power build that i can see having a chance is a perfectly played DE. And that probably wins vs everything. Most DEs are still easy picking for cele harb tho.

Edited July 18 by Zyreva.1078

[H K.4057]

5 hours ago, meerfunkuhtron.9725 said:

With the addition of swords (and with Anet adding in another teleport for necro with the spear so we have more to look forward to), I've been finding it very hard to get away from them. It's not like they're just going to stand there and not chase after you within those 7 seconds.

Necros were built with the highest health pools in the game, with a second health bar, and with the opportunity to add more toughness to themselves (with the option of power scaling with that toughness) because necros didn't have much for mobility. That was one thing they were missing that kept them in line with the rest and now that Anet said kitten it to their own designs, it's the reason why they've become such a problem.

The combination of sword 3, Spectral Walk, and Flesh Wurm gives necros the bare minimum mobility for solo roaming, but it doesn't mean they have the same level of mobility as WBs, Thieves, or Holos. Finding it hard to disengage from a necro of any spec or build is more of an indication that you don't have enough mobility.

While I don't disagree that cele builds are not good for the game because they promote pattern of play that are not interesting and not fun, and I also don't disagree that cele harbinger in particular uses cele stats very well, I don't think cele harb is particularly problematic for solo roaming when there are much more degenerate builds. In fact, the list of degenerate solo roaming builds is so long that any complaints about a specific spec and or build is invariably some variation of "This thing just killed me, and I don't like it."

[oatsnjuices.1698]

You think that is bad, there is a trend of celestial healbot revenants. Roaming is kinda dead due to this type of build. Truly, I wish they had to chose, either heal or damage. Two of us beat on one for about 10 minutes the other day, until another showed up and there is no winning. It is just 100% health 100% of the time. 

Edited July 18 by oatsnjuices.1698

[coro.3176]

Cele harb is one of the few builds that I know I literally cannot beat when piloted by a good player, even if I do everything right. I still try most of the time though, because it's possible to beat average players, even though it's like fighting a dark souls boss.

That said, it feels merely overtuned, and not "broken" in the sense that it's not exploiting anything (eg. perma-dodge, or insane mobility), so it still dies to focus.

[Cuks.8241]

I play cele harb (mostly blood magic variant) a lot. I would say Im good at it at least for my standards.

And yeah it is completely over powered. The only thing that can get me is if I get caught in open field without any obstacles to LOS by a good Deadeye that can kite and keep constant pressure. If I can break los, I most likely win.

I havent yet met these mythological power builds that could lock and burst through my 28k heavily armored hp and some barrier on top.

[KrHome.1920]

33 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I play cele harb (mostly blood magic variant) a lot. I would say Im good at it at least for my standards.

And yeah it is completely over powered. The only thing that can get me is if I get caught in open field without any obstacles to LOS by a good Deadeye that can kite and keep constant pressure. If I can break los, I most likely win.

I havent yet met these mythological power builds that could lock and burst through my 28k heavily armored hp and some barrier on top.

If I can do this and the environment looks like that, then no one except deadeye can beat me.

I could say the same and I don't play cele harbinger.

[CafPow.1542]

22 hours ago, meerfunkuhtron.9725 said:

with a second health bar

Harbinger doesn’t.

22 hours ago, meerfunkuhtron.9725 said:

With the addition of swords (and with Anet adding in another teleport for necro with the spear

At the moment power harb is pretty garbage but it adds some mobility, granted.

22 hours ago, meerfunkuhtron.9725 said:

[felincyriac.5981]

anything with burst power/condi (power or condi mesmer etc) has a good chance of beating it, pretty much all thief builds can win as well, they can reset and come back in if they are loosing, cata is a better cele abuser.

Obvious things like kiting when they pop their elite, using projectile hate, cc when their 3s of stab is out etc.  Even a core necro can beat the average harb with these tactics.

 

Ofc 99% of randoms you'll encounter in wvw will facetank everything and then complain certain builds are invincible.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

29 minutes ago, felincyriac.5981 said:

anything with burst power/condi (power or condi mesmer etc) 

Condi perhaps, power not a chance.

Power mesmer has 2 Condi cleanses if using sigil, and has lower mobility than harb.

[Nefras.7314]

15 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Harbinger doesn’t.

At the moment power harb is pretty garbage but it adds some mobility, granted.

In Roaming and 1v1 Power harb is really good atm. Overall it has better matchups than reaper even. 

[Santo.2419]

On 7/19/2024 at 11:49 PM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Condi perhaps, power not a chance.

Power mesmer has 2 Condi cleanses if using sigil, and has lower mobility than harb.

Yeah, full power FA weaver and I had some cele harb just jumping away humming a song as I unload on him free cast, he wasn't worried at all.

EDIT* I should add that it's prob more the combination of cele stat gear than the class itself to a point

Edited July 21 by Santo.2419

[H K.4057]

19 hours ago, Nefras.7314 said:

In Roaming and 1v1 Power harb is really good atm. Overall it has better matchups than reaper even. 

Most people aren't going to know that because they approach every fight exactly the same. They just face tank all of the damage and mash all of their buttons and hope for the best. The only kiting they do is hold down s. In that context, power harb might as well not exist because power reaper will delete people who just sit in their damage.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

I've 1v3 as harbringer and almost won. But I'd take different route when addressing its ungodly fighting ability. I'd actually like a build like that for each class.

As a warrior main, I'd like original Spellbreaker back, with everything it used to have. Full Counter that can do damage, boon rip as it used to be.

I mean, we're so late in the game, anet. Let loose a little and give everyone at least one ridiculous build that bring out the QQ.

[Valik Shin.9027]

it doesn't matter. if your not 20 deep you just end up diing to gank squads assholes

[oatsnjuices.1698]

The worst change to this game is the tanks. 20 minute fights 2 people die because of slow damage braindead playstyle. I mean, what happened to the get good or die style that used to be in place? Now its just aura eles, tank guardians, blur mesmers, tank rangers, tank revenants, tank warriors, tank necro etc etc. All pretty much unkillable in 1v1, and in small scale if against each other will stalemate. Everyone talks about the too much damage, then damage is nerfed. What is not nerfed is the mechanic that is the problem, it is the weapon set. Therefore, only slow drawn out and boring play is left. I guess I should just think of it is none of it matters.

Edited July 22 by oatsnjuices.1698

[Jobber.6348]

People who defend Cele Harbinger are being very disingeneous or don't know Necro enough. I didn't expect this sort of behavior from fellow Necros. (I play Condi Reaper)

Let me tell you just how much Cele Harbinger, at least the meta build, gets for free just for BREATHING:

300 Power 300 Condi 600 Toughness from Death Magic. They pretty much upkeep this 100% uptime using Corruptor's Fervor because of the nature of Condi builds and Tainted Bolt spam with PERMA QUICKNESS from Deathly Haste. Oh did I forget that Corruptor's Fervor also gives them pulsing Protection? Silly me. 

That's not counting instant 25 Might from Elite that they pop just as they begin their counter attack. (I say counter attack but it's more like enter Shroud and press 5)

And what's more, they have increased Critical chance for free from Curses via +180 Precision in Shroud AND 2% additional Crit Chance per condition on the target which nearly crit caps them with Fury even on a Cele build. And as a nice little ribbon on top, they gain Condition Damage based on Precision AND these two traits in Curses which are so darn cool and kitten? They're MINOR TRAITS. THEY GIVE NOTHING UP TO JUST HAVE IT

So you're talking about a 100% crit chance with 197% Crit Damage and potentially 3k Power and 1.8k Condition Damage walking tank with around 2.2k Toughness just pelting you with critical tainted bolts that has chance to Bleed (33%) and applies Torment and has nice healthy pool of 20k HP after reaching 25 Blight, which mind you, also increases their Strike or Condition damage based on the Major Adept Harbinger trait they decide to torment people with that day.

Just dogpile them duh. Yes valid tactic and works against most builds. But Cele Harbinger now uses Swords as a defensive set so they have 4 leaps in a row plus Shadow walk revert and Flesh Wurm teleport.

I'm not a balance genius who can say what to slap down with a competitive split but I just think people who defend Cele Harbinger aren't being genuine. You have so much, stop acting like you don't.

 

Edited July 22 by Jobber.6348

[senftube.6081]

6 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

People who defend Cele Harbinger are being very disingeneous or don't know Necro enough. I didn't expect this sort of behavior from fellow Necros. (I play Condi Reaper)

Let me tell you just how much Cele Harbinger, at least the meta build, gets for free just for BREATHING:

300 Power 300 Condi 600 Toughness from Death Magic. They pretty much upkeep this 100% uptime using Corruptor's Fervor because of the nature of Condi builds and Tainted Bolt spam with PERMA QUICKNESS from Deathly Haste. Oh did I forget that Corruptor's Fervor also gives them pulsing Protection? Silly me. 

That's not counting instant 25 Might from Elite that they pop just as they begin their counter attack. (I say counter attack but it's more like enter Shroud and press 5)

And what's more, they have increased Critical chance for free from Curses via +180 Precision in Shroud AND 2% additional Crit Chance per condition on the target which nearly crit caps them with Fury even on a Cele build. And as a nice little ribbon on top, they gain Condition Damage based on Precision AND these two traits in Curses which are so darn cool and kitten? They're MINOR TRAITS. THEY GIVE NOTHING UP TO JUST HAVE IT

So you're talking about a 100% crit chance with 197% Crit Damage and potentially 3k Power and 1.8k Condition Damage walking tank with around 2.2k Toughness just pelting you with critical tainted bolts that has chance to Bleed (33%) and applies Torment and has nice healthy pool of 20k HP after reaching 25 Blight, which mind you, also increases their Strike or Condition damage based on the Major Adept Harbinger trait they decide to torment people with that day.

Just dogpile them duh. Yes valid tactic and works against most builds. But Cele Harbinger now uses Swords as a defensive set so they have 4 leaps in a row plus Shadow walk revert and Flesh Wurm teleport.

I'm not a balance genius who can say what to slap down with a competitive split but I just think people who defend Cele Harbinger aren't being genuine. You have so much, stop acting like you don't.

 

+1

The first i see here with IQ.