The Current Boon Ball Meta and Balancing Suggestions

[ChrisWhitey.9076]

1 minute ago, Sheff.4851 said:

some boons, for example Super Speed, should only affect the player activating the boon, not the entire squad of 5

Depending on what boons are impacted this is could come across as just delete support. Hopefully it is just super speed where groups if they needed to could use relic of speed.

[Sheff.4851]

1 minute ago, ChrisWhitey.9076 said:

Depending on what boons are impacted this is could come across as just delete support. Hopefully it is just super speed where groups if they needed to could use relic of speed.

Hi Chris. You have quoted the wrong player. @Mindwhip.8057 said that, not me. 🙂

[ChrisWhitey.9076]

doh must be friday

Edited July 26 by ChrisWhitey.9076

[LordHT.8297]

The only way to end the boonball meta is to bring the damage back. There was a time in wvw where it didn't matter how big your group was, or how many boons or healers you had, if you stepped in the wrong place you would explode. At that time, coordination, discipline and movement made the difference in combat. Do you know the phrase "God created men and Colt made them equal"? Large groups will always have enough damage to 1 shot smaller groups no matter how nerfed the damage is in the game, but small groups will not be able to melt larger enemies if their skills does garbage damage. Think. There was a reason why skills were so boosted in the past and ending it was a bad decision that still causes negative effects today

[kash.9213]

8 minutes ago, LordHT.8297 said:

The only way to end the boonball meta is to bring the damage back. There was a time in wvw where it didn't matter how big your group was, or how many boons or healers you had, if you stepped in the wrong place you would explode. At that time, coordination, discipline and movement made the difference in combat. Do you know the phrase "God created men and Colt made them equal"? Large groups will always have enough damage to 1 shot smaller groups no matter how nerfed the damage is in the game, but small groups will not be able to melt larger enemies if their skills does garbage damage. Think. There was a reason why skills were so boosted in the past and ending it was a bad decision that still causes negative effects today

That adjusted damage gets dumped on everyone else around those blobs though. 

I feel like the damage is mostly there, just the windows to ferry it through favors the blob and their boon uptime or overlap. The sequence of events during a siege also favors the blob since the clock will work against the other side if there's a control point to take or defend.

Not disagreeing with adjusting some damage, but it would have to be a surgical balance patch and the option to revert has to be understood and on the table from the start. 

[Mike.3196]

21 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said:

You should come to one of my squads sometime, and see how you measure up against the 5-7 high level players! Maybe we'll get linked soon. 🙂

Im confused you mean measurement like arc DPS? And padding DPS or fighting the 5-7 player 1vs1?

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

15 minutes ago, Mike.3196 said:

Im confused you mean measurement like arc DPS? And padding DPS or fighting the 5-7 player 1vs1?

An invitation to squad, to see how you do on meters, but also probably observing your gameplay, since its a small group you can kind of just look at how one plays, and notice people's individual impact at that scale.

Sheff is a cool guy, and a good player I've ran with before, I'd take the invitation.

Edited July 26 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Sheff.4851]

Correct. There's some elements of ArcDPS padding, but you can also look at a player's spike DPS within Arc, as well as downs contribution, which is very difficult to pad. It's not as good as something like reviewing footage, but you can tell a lot about a player's quality by just skimming their logs after a few fights in a squad.

As far as 5-7 player 1v1s, the guild that I play with basically only does 20 man content and up. We aim for running around 25-30, and comp to beat anything our size or larger.

[Evenge.4067]

On 7/21/2024 at 4:03 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Boonball is literally the developers VISION for WvW. It's not going anywhere.

This seems true since Anet tags are always running with boonballs. Don't think they even know WvW outside of that.

[Mike.3196]

1 hour ago, Sheff.4851 said:

Correct. There's some elements of ArcDPS padding, but you can also look at a player's spike DPS within Arc, as well as downs contribution, which is very difficult to pad. It's not as good as something like reviewing footage, but you can tell a lot about a player's quality by just skimming their logs after a few fights in a squad.

As far as 5-7 player 1v1s, the guild that I play with basically only does 20 man content and up. We aim for running around 25-30, and comp to beat anything our size or larger.

Your saying being able to do that is difficult? I'm confused if we play same game. When has boonballing been hard in current meta of  4 supports 1 DPS what in that comp is hard.??? I'm lost

[Sheff.4851]

3 minutes ago, Mike.3196 said:

Your saying being able to do that is difficult? I'm confused if we play same game. When has boonballing been hard in current meta of  4 supports 1 DPS what in that comp is hard.??? I'm lost

When you're fighting other groups that are as good as you are. Like I said, you should come by sometime. We're on Lutgardis Conservatory for the next month.

[Mike.3196]

4 minutes ago, Sheff.4851 said:

When you're fighting other groups that are as good as you are. Like I said, you should come by sometime. We're on Lutgardis Conservatory for the next month.

Being good in current meta isnt  difficult when you 4 supports  idk , at that point who wins is always the more experienced players. If I have to explain you why current meta isnt difficult then this convo is going nowhere. Meta is this

Who's running more numbers then 

Who's running 4 supports

Okay 

Who sits in bomb  they sit in bomb let's use our 4 rezes.

Rinse and repeate.

[Sheff.4851]

5 minutes ago, Mike.3196 said:

Being good in current meta isnt  difficult when you 4 supports  idk , at that point who wins is always the more experienced players. If I have to explain you why current meta isnt difficult then this convo is going nowhere. Meta is this

Who's running more numbers then 

Who's running 4 supports

Okay 

Who sits in bomb  they sit in bomb let's use our 4 rezes.

Rinse and repeate.

I can tell you're a very skilled group player. If you change your mind, the offer is there.

[Kozumi.5816]

1 hour ago, Sheff.4851 said:

When you're fighting other groups that are as good as you are. Like I said, you should come by sometime. We're on Lutgardis Conservatory for the next month.

There is zero mechanical skill involved in fighting boon ball vs boon ball.

It is the worst PvP I've ever seen in 30 years of gaming.

  

7 hours ago, Mindwhip.8057 said:

Commander's should be reduced to a max team of 25-30 players. This will force other Commander's to coordinate and not just follow the one pin. Some boons shouldn't effect the quantity of players they do currently and some boons, for example Super Speed, should only affect the player activating the boon, not the entire squad of 5.

Superspeed shouldn't even exist.

Counters to counters = game developers gave up.

I agree with the rest(and superspeed thing, it being self only would still be better!).

Edited July 27 by Kozumi.5816

[Aeolus.3615]

5 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

(snip)

I agree with the rest(and superspeed thing, it being self only would still be better!).

And quickness should not be a boon, this would make players stop stacking quickness, and quickness can carry and by alot.

if Anet restricted certain content to specific skills balance would be much better anyway, but this is a game changed to a game  that attracts  players that search ways to be super carried if they follow certain specs and builds.

 

Gw2 in terms of balance its known to be a bad game for some reason.

Edited July 27 by Aeolus.3615

[Cuks.8241]

11 hours ago, Mike.3196 said:

Being good in current meta isnt  difficult when you 4 supports  idk , at that point who wins is always the more experienced players. If I have to explain you why current meta isnt difficult then this convo is going nowhere. Meta is this

Who's running more numbers then 

Who's running 4 supports

Okay 

Who sits in bomb  they sit in bomb let's use our 4 rezes.

Rinse and repeate.

Well you can show it to him how easy it is. 

Also I have a feeling you dont understand what support means. Support is not the same as healer or resser. Each support have different function and not all of them are defensive.

[Mike.3196]

4 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Well you can show it to him how easy it is. 

Also I have a feeling you dont understand what support means. Support is not the same as healer or resser. Each support have different function and not all of them are defensive.

I think me saying running 4 support 1 DPS went right over your head there a reason why people run 4 support it isn't because functions it's because there no counter play to it so they have to  to keep up with boons

[Joonmo.7523]

I've read all of your discussions about BOON Ball.

You seem to think the problem is due to Celestial gear, but I don't think so.

Since a few years ago, ArenaNet has been nerfing the BOON removal skills.

The biggest problem with BOON Ball is that there is no counter.
The only thing that can beat BOON Ball now is a stronger BOON Ball.

Boon Ball was strong before, but not as much as it is now.
Because the BOON skills did their job properly.

Currently, BOON removal skills are too limited in number and ineffective compared to BOON skills.

Spellbreaker's elite skill "Winds of Disenchantment" was a counter to BOON.
But now, after 10 nerfs in 7 years, it is ineffective compared to the slots consumed and the cooldown.

(10s duration, 0.5s pulse, 10 targets, 100% boon duration reduction -> 4s duration, 1s pulse, 5 targets, 33% boon duration reduction)

Spellbreaker's "Break Enchantments" changed from 4 to 1 boon removal.

Masmer's null field was halved.

In addition, many boon removal skills and traits were nerfed.

The reason why boon balls are so strong now is because boon removal skills have been nerfed over the past 7 years, so there is no counter.

Edited July 28 by Joonmo.7523

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Joonmo.7523 said:

I've read all of your discussions about BOON Ball.

You seem to think the problem is due to Celestial gear, but I don't think so.

Since a few years ago, ArenaNet has been nerfing the BOON removal skills.

The biggest problem with BOON Ball is that there is no counter.
The only thing that can beat BOON Ball now is a stronger BOON Ball.

Boon Ball was strong before, but not as much as it is now.
Because the BOON skills did their job properly.

Currently, BOON removal skills are too limited in number and ineffective compared to BOON skills.

Spellbreaker's elite skill "Winds of Disenchantment" was a counter to BOON.
But now, after 10 nerfs in 7 years, it is ineffective compared to the slots consumed and the cooldown.

(10s duration, 0.5s pulse, 10 targets, 100% boon duration reduction -> 4s duration, 1s pulse, 5 targets, 33% boon duration reduction)

Spellbreaker's "Break Enchantments" changed from 4 to 1 boon removal.

Masmer's null field was halved.

In addition, many boon removal skills and traits were nerfed.

The reason why boon balls are so strong now is because boon removal skills have been nerfed over the past 7 years, so there is no counter.

🥂

[Aeolus.3615]

@Joonmo.7523  a fix to all that, more boons are the solution.

On a serious note, what can balance the gameplay is the opposite  of what Anet wants.

Meanwhile try to tell a dev that  quickness, alacrity both need to work like superspeed  and minstrells  need to loose its perfect defense+support stats, supporters need to be squishier low armour or low vitality on those stats more towards strong support.

Since it hurts blobs mostly they rather give more spam than actually balance the boon/buffs of the game meanwhile kept borking of balance and design of the specs.... its nuts.

 

 

Edited July 28 by Aeolus.3615

[coro.3176]

On 7/26/2024 at 3:27 PM, kash.9213 said:

I feel like the damage is mostly there, just the windows to ferry it through favors the blob and their boon uptime or overlap. The sequence of events during a siege also favors the blob since the clock will work against the other side if there's a control point to take or defend.

I don't feel like the damage is there. Fought a boon blob today - they probably had 25. I landed a fat Prime Light Beam while they were on a capture circle and they just sat in it and I had mostly yellow numbers. Sitting in an elite skill damage aoe, yawning while it doesn't even tickle your group is kind of disrespecting the game mechanics IMO.

At that point, I was like, "welp, nothing I do is going to change the outcome of this unless one of our large groups gets on to come fight them", so I logged off.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 minute ago, coro.3176 said:

I don't feel like the damage is there. Fought a boon blob today - they probably had 25. I landed a fat Prime Light Beam while they were on a capture circle and they just sat in it and I had mostly yellow numbers. Sitting in an elite skill damage aoe, yawning while it doesn't even tickle your group is kind of disrespecting the game mechanics IMO.

At that point, I was like, "welp, nothing I do is going to change the outcome of this unless one of our large groups gets on to come fight them", so I logged off.

You forgot to bring two scourges and a rev x5 with you.

[Kozumi.5816]

3 hours ago, coro.3176 said:

I don't feel like the damage is there. Fought a boon blob today - they probably had 25. I landed a fat Prime Light Beam while they were on a capture circle and they just sat in it and I had mostly yellow numbers. Sitting in an elite skill damage aoe, yawning while it doesn't even tickle your group is kind of disrespecting the game mechanics IMO.

At that point, I was like, "welp, nothing I do is going to change the outcome of this unless one of our large groups gets on to come fight them", so I logged off.

Each person you're hitting can be healed by 20 others.

So you hit 5, but each of those 5 can be healed by 20 other people.

Target caps are hilarious, and make fighting bigger numbers feel futile to the point of logging off(like you did).

It's just extremely bad PvP, and exactly like you said, people should not be able to just afk inside of your huge burst and not care at all...no other PvP game works like that.

[Sheff.4851]

6 hours ago, coro.3176 said:

I don't feel like the damage is there. Fought a boon blob today - they probably had 25. I landed a fat Prime Light Beam while they were on a capture circle and they just sat in it and I had mostly yellow numbers. Sitting in an elite skill damage aoe, yawning while it doesn't even tickle your group is kind of disrespecting the game mechanics IMO.

At that point, I was like, "welp, nothing I do is going to change the outcome of this unless one of our large groups gets on to come fight them", so I logged off.

What is the alternative?

[Kozumi.5816]

36 minutes ago, Sheff.4851 said:

What is the alternative?

How about doing what literally every other SUCCESSFUL pvp game people actually LIKE does?