What is your opinion on the nerf to Alacrity and Quickness support in WvW?

[Kulvar.1239]

I noticed a trend in patches that reduces or remove Alacrity and Quickness support availability in WvW.

So I want to check the wiki to compare WvW and PvE support capability.

• Druid's trait Grace of the Land, gives Might instead of Alacrity.
• Tempest's trait Lucid Singularity, gives Might instead of Alacrity.
• Scourge's trait Desert Empowerment, gives Vigor instead of Alacrity.
• Specter's trait Shadestep, gives Protection instead of Alacrity.
• Bladesworn's trait Daring Dragon, duration of Alacrity reduced by 70%.
• Chronomancer's trait Stretched Time, duration of Alacrity reduced by 67%.
• Chronomancer's trait Flow of Time, duration of Alacrity reduced by 25%.
• Renegage's ability Orders from Above, duration of Alacrity reduced by 63%.
• Untamed's trait Let Loose, do not give Quickness without any replacement.
• Herald's trait Elevated Compassion, gives Vigor instead of Quickness.
• Berserker's trait Heat the Soul, gives Might instead of Quickness.
• Scrapper's trait Kinetic Accelerators, gives Fury and Might instead of Quickness.
• Catalyst's trait Spectacular Sphere, gives Swiftness instead of Quickness.
• Firebrand's ability Potent Haste, duration of Quickness reduced by 60%.
• Firebrand's trait Liberator's Vow, duration of Quickness reduced by 50%.
• Firebrand's trait Stalwart Speed, duration of Quickness reduced by 50%.
• Chronomancer's trait Seize the Moment, duration of Quickness reduced by 67% per phantasm and 25% per clone.

Willbender, Mechanist, and Harbinger escaped a nerf so far.
Willbender is an outlier though with the weird traits combinations needed to share Alacrity and the preference for Firebrand as support.

What's your opinion on that?
Do you think it's ArenaNet response to boon balls?

Edited August 22 by Kulvar.1239
Explicit what I compared | Remove "Be Quick or Be Killed"

[urd.8306]

If this is their response, they are completely on the wrong track.

Solutions vs boon balls:

- AoE target cap up to 15-20 and dealing more damage when more targets are hit (AoE skills and Siege)
- cap the boon duration to a point below the cooldown of the skill OR
- buff Corrupts and Boon Strips so they match the actual Boon generating skills

This would do two things. The need to split or/and move your boon ball when standing in AoE not just stacking as counterplay and give groups the option to dedicate their gameplay to a boon corrupt group or a boon strip group.

 

 

 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

Not even 99% nerfs is going to be good enough.

[bq pd.2148]

1 hour ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

ISo I want to check the wiki to compare WvW and PvE support capability.

• Deadeye's trait Be Quick or Be Killed, duration of Quickness reduced by 38%.

this is not a quickness support trait, its all personal quickness.

the quickness support trait Fire for Effect makes it so that the stolen skill from deadeyes mark and One in the Chamber is always Steal Time. the quickness duration on this is lower than in PvE, but not due to a nerf, it is lower because it did not get buffed when it was buffed in PvE.

i don't think reducing access to alacrity/quickness does anything to the current state of the ball, the main problem IMO was and still is the reduction of damage from their attempt to increase TTK in 2020 patch. not sure if that was to draw out GvG fights or because CmC got his hands on more balance stuff and just gave us too much of PvP balance without care that we actually do have defensive stats that will make a lack of damage problematic.

[urd.8306]

The most fun part of this is that all the other game modes are on a different path. The new expansion is full of red circles with boon corrupt that just kill you. In WvW you can stand in 8-15 overlapping red circles with your boon ball without any of the support classes breaking a sweat.

[Kulvar.1239]

19 minutes ago, bq pd.2148 said:

this is not a quickness support trait, its all personal quickness.

the quickness support trait Fire for Effect makes it so that the stolen skill from deadeyes mark and One in the Chamber is always Steal Time. the quickness duration on this is lower than in PvE, but not due to a nerf, it is lower because it did not get buffed when it was buffed in PvE.

My bad, I don't know Thief much.

20 minutes ago, bq pd.2148 said:

i don't think reducing access to alacrity/quickness does anything to the current state of the ball, the main problem IMO was and still is the reduction of damage from their attempt to increase TTK in 2020 patch. not sure if that was to draw out GvG fights or because CmC got his hands on more balance stuff and just gave us too much of PvP balance without care that we actually do have defensive stats that will make a lack of damage problematic.

It's fine to increase the TTK, but it should go along with various balance so you end up being able to kill them eventually

57 minutes ago, urd.8306 said:

If this is their response, they are completely on the wrong track.

Solutions vs boon balls:

- AoE target cap up to 15-20 and dealing more damage when more targets are hit (AoE skills and Siege)
- cap the boon duration to a point below the cooldown of the skill OR
- buff Corrupts and Boon Strips so they match the actual Boon generating skills

This would do two things. The need to split or/and move your boon ball when standing in AoE not just stacking as counterplay and give groups the option to dedicate their gameplay to a boon corrupt group or a boon strip group.

The solution to boon ball is Arrow Cart. Arrow Cart is severely underpowered right now but it is supposed to be the anti-boon ball siege weapon.
Toxic Unveiling Shot should no longer apply Poison, but a special condition that cannot be cleansed that decrease incoming healing (something like -20% for 10s).
Fire Suffering Arrows and Fire Merciless Arrows should remove 1 boon.

[MedievalThings.5417]

8 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

My bad, I don't know Thief much.

It's fine to increase the TTK, but it should go along with various balance so you end up being able to kill them eventually

The solution to boon ball is Arrow Cart. Arrow Cart is severely underpowered right now but it is supposed to be the anti-boon ball siege weapon.
Toxic Unveiling Shot should no longer apply Poison, but a special condition that cannot be cleansed that decrease incoming healing (something like -20% for 10s).
Fire Suffering Arrows and Fire Merciless Arrows should remove 1 boon.

Anet nerfed arrow carts for this exact reason.  It's why stacking tons of arrow carts doesn't do anything to boonballs/anyone with support.  You can only be hit by 2 arrow carts per interval, which is why they are useless vs anything but pugs.

[Kulvar.1239]

38 minutes ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

Anet nerfed arrow carts for this exact reason.  It's why stacking tons of arrow carts doesn't do anything to boonballs/anyone with support.  You can only be hit by 2 arrow carts per interval, which is why they are useless vs anything but pugs.

They should be effective though. It should wreck boon balls.
And the counter to them already exists. It is trebuchet to destroy them or shield generator to protect against them.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, urd.8306 said:

The most fun part of this is that all the other game modes are on a different path. The new expansion is full of red circles with boon corrupt that just kill you. In WvW you can stand in 8-15 overlapping red circles with your boon ball without any of the support classes breaking a sweat.

Waiting for this upgrade to lords. 🤭

[TheGrimm.5624]

59 minutes ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

Anet nerfed arrow carts for this exact reason.  It's why stacking tons of arrow carts doesn't do anything to boonballs/anyone with support.  You can only be hit by 2 arrow carts per interval, which is why they are useless vs anything but pugs.

Might not be a bad idea to move this to 5 to match both siege placement rules and normal weapon attacks. Also either adding a new skill to the AC that does a boon stripe or add a boon strip to an existing shot. An additional skill might make the most sense. We could use more things to spend point on anyway.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

The solution to boon ball is Arrow Cart. Arrow Cart is severely underpowered right now but it is supposed to be the anti-boon ball siege weapon.
Toxic Unveiling Shot should no longer apply Poison, but a special condition that cannot be cleansed that decrease incoming healing (something like -20% for 10s).
Fire Suffering Arrows and Fire Merciless Arrows should remove 1 boon.

You would think, arrow carts are "the anti-personnel" siege of the game, but they are the worse at it, I'd use cannons over it just for the boon strip.

Arrow cart 1 should have boon strips like cannons.

But the secret discord will not like that.

So good luck with that.

[Oldyoung.6109]

As a Rev main i'm happy with other classes getting parity but i don't see harbinger on the list.

[Nietzsche.5870]

42 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Waiting for this upgrade to lords. 🤭

It would be amazing if they made towers/keep lords more unique bosses w/ their own mechanics and amp up the intensity (or maybe intensity scales w/ how high lord gets scaled). Tower lords less and easier to deal w/ but being able to feel the big jump to a keep lord in difficulty and engagement.

[Kulvar.1239]

41 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

You would think, arrow carts are "the anti-personnel" siege of the game, but they are the worse at it, I'd use cannons over it just for the boon strip.

Arrow cart 1 should have boon strips like cannons.

But the secret discord will not like that.

So good luck with that.

I mean, they should. I lament they aren't.

54 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Waiting for this upgrade to lords. 🤭

New siege: portal to summon a colossal titanspawn to act as lord bodyguard would be effective 😄

[TexZero.7910]

Bladesworn still has alac (missing from list), also from WvW so fair i guess.

But realistically i think it's tackling the problem the wrong way. Boons and Boon application are a problem. Ideally i'd like to see more necro spear boon denial added to other classes that naturally boon rip. Spell Breaker should be priority in this regard, then mesmer, necro and thief.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

13 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

 

• Firebrand's ability Potent Haste, duration of Quickness reduced by 60%.
• Firebrand's trait Liberator's Vow, duration of Quickness reduced by 50%.
• Firebrand's trait Stalwart Speed, duration of Quickness reduced by 50%.

Lies, don't you know Anet favors Guardian and never nerfs their golden child Firebrand!???
Clearly these nerfs NEVER took place!
/s

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

snip

Hey where did you land? I got sent to Moogooloo, where next...spin the bottle lol. Weeeeee!!! Where is Luranni.....? Too many Warhammer peeps dropping out.

Edited August 23 by TheGrimm.5624

[Kulvar.1239]

11 hours ago, TexZero.7910 said:

Bladesworn still has alac (missing from list), also from WvW so fair i guess.

But realistically i think it's tackling the problem the wrong way. Boons and Boon application are a problem. Ideally i'd like to see more necro spear boon denial added to other classes that naturally boon rip. Spell Breaker should be priority in this regard, then mesmer, necro and thief.

It's there. 5th bullet is "Bladesworn's trait Daring Dragon, duration of Alacrity reduced by 70%."

Revenant has Mallyx but it's rarely used as Jalis road and Ventari bubble are way stronger.
Spellbreaker has the elite bubble, Mesmer also has a bubble.
But the amount of boons boonball can dish is outpacing every possible boon denial.

I think Arrow Cart should be the focus to counter the boonball though.
Simply giving everyone enough boon denial to counter boonball would create other issues, like in roaming.
While Arrow Cart up would have more synergies and counterplay (trebuchet or shield generator), more availability at a cost in supply, and easier balancing too.

 

[XenesisII.1540]

9 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Hey where did you land? I got sent to Moogooloo, where next...spin the bottle lol. Weeeeee!!! Where is Luranni.....? Too many Warhammer peeps dropping out.

Abaddon's Prison.

Fitting really, since I'm a rebel to the system.

🤭☕

[Justine.6351]

On 8/22/2024 at 11:13 AM, bq pd.2148 said:

this is not a quickness support trait, its all personal quickness.

the quickness support trait Fire for Effect makes it so that the stolen skill from deadeyes mark and One in the Chamber is always Steal Time. the quickness duration on this is lower than in PvE, but not due to a nerf, it is lower because it did not get buffed when it was buffed in PvE.

i don't think reducing access to alacrity/quickness does anything to the current state of the ball, the main problem IMO was and still is the reduction of damage from their attempt to increase TTK in 2020 patch. not sure if that was to draw out GvG fights or because CmC got his hands on more balance stuff and just gave us too much of PvP balance without care that we actually do have defensive stats that will make a lack of damage problematic.

4 years later and it is still an open wound. It's either getting oneshot or facetanking stuff you shouldn't be.

[ArchonWing.9480]

15 hours ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Lies, don't you know Anet favors Guardian and never nerfs their golden child Firebrand!???
Clearly these nerfs NEVER took place!
/s

Yes Firebrand has been nerfed many times but the thing is that guardian itself is a stable class that can withstand all these nerfs and get picked for meta anyways. A lot of the time people weren't even running the quickness traits because that was not its main role in WvW; it just happened to have a nice perk that was too easy to add on, much like resistance or reflects. Firebrand doesn't give the most of these e, but the fact that it has easy access to it at all just means all the more reason to have it.

It is much like the numerous healing nerfs to Firebrand too. Bascially nobody really cares because it really shouldn't have been a healer in the first place.

But you know,  it's not our fault that our class is functional and other people's aren't.

The only truly unacceptable nerf to Firebrand is the ones to mantra, which just makes it more annoying to play. But ANet only did that because they hate mesmers and just slapped FB as collateral damage I guess.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

48 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yes Firebrand has been nerfed many times but the thing is that guardian itself is a stable class that can withstand all these nerfs and get picked for meta anyways. A lot of the time people weren't even running the quickness traits because that was not its main role in WvW; it just happened to have a nice perk that was too easy to add on, much like resistance or reflects. Firebrand doesn't give the most of these e, but the fact that it has easy access to it at all just means all the more reason to have it.

It is much like the numerous healing nerfs to Firebrand too. Bascially nobody really cares because it really shouldn't have been a healer in the first place.

But you know,  it's not our fault that our class is functional and other people's aren't.

The only truly unacceptable nerf to Firebrand is the ones to mantra, which just makes it more annoying to play. But ANet only did that because they hate mesmers and just slapped FB as collateral damage I guess.

Idk if you saw the Mantra whine thread in the Mesmer section, its hilarious 🙂

[ChrisWhitey.9076]

Anet performed balance to get support on every class in pve but WvW only a few get it. If you want my opinion removed quick and alac from every support class or give it back to the old classes.

[kash.9213]

My Specter lost its Alacrity early on, like Anet was seeing if the idea would work out. I only had Alacrity for a minute but I'm not mad though. At least I'm not expected to drop it on our siege users anymore. 

I kind of wish that when they want to toy around with an idea, that they make changes on all or none. I'm still not sure if that's the direction they're ultimately moving towards because while changes get made to some, it still feels undecisive. And I'm still not sure what happened to the range limit they seemed to be interested a year or two ago, but I might be imagining that one or getting some things mixed up. 

[XenesisII.1540]

2 hours ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Idk if you saw the Mantra whine thread in the Mesmer section, its hilarious 🙂

Mantras suck. 🤷‍♂️☕