Thief 1500 Rifle range, and Ranger "1500" LB range (Video Evidence Now Included)

[trianglecubed.3750]

In terms of mechanics in the actual game, the thing a sniper thief shoots appears to be more of a sort of energy bolt than an actual physical "lobbed" projectile like what ranger bows shoot.

This seems to mean that the sniper's shot completely stops and disappears after 1500 range, however since the ranger shoots physical projectiles in a manner to in-game mortar shots they have a "weight" and don't just disappear after the effective maximum , they keep going beyond their range for a noticeable amount of time or until they hit something solid. You can see this by using some camera tricks to "dead aim" or manually aim the arcing projectiles to hit things that are "out of range."

When it comes to physical lobbed projectiles as opposed to things like energy blasts which the sniper shots appear to be, the physical projectiles generally exist until they hit something such as terrain or an enemy, though they do have a hard distance it isn't nearly what is listed. What's listed seems to be the maximum range that things such as auto attack and other attacks can be nearly guaranteed to hit their target.

Yet due to the way they function the projectiles themselves seem to have been given a bit more "life" to cause damage beyond that to compensate for things such as travel time and thus allow the projectiles to consistently do damage as opposed to get stuck on terrain or fail because something suddenly went juuust out of range due to the slower speed of the projectile.

With the rifle's projectile, however, it travels significantly faster and directly to the target, meaning that if you fire at something in range it generally won't have a chance to get out of range without being hit.

All of this is, of course, assuming line of sight, which, given the arc of the bow weapons doesn't always mean it'll hit, it could still hit a ceiling or other terrain if the positions aren't quite optimal.

[AikijinX.6258]

@"trianglecubed.3750" said:In terms of mechanics in the actual game, the thing a sniper thief shoots appears to be more of a sort of energy bolt than an actual physical "lobbed" projectile like what ranger bows shoot.

This seems to mean that the sniper's shot completely stops and disappears after 1500 range, however since the ranger shoots physical projectiles in a manner to in-game mortar shots they have a "weight" and don't just disappear after the effective maximum , they keep going beyond their range for a noticeable amount of time or until they hit something solid. You can see this by using some camera tricks to "dead aim" or manually aim the arcing projectiles to hit things that are "out of range."

When it comes to physical lobbed projectiles as opposed to things like energy blasts which the sniper shots appear to be, the physical projectiles generally exist until they hit something such as terrain or an enemy, though they do have a hard distance it isn't nearly what is listed. What's listed seems to be the maximum range that things such as auto attack and other attacks can be nearly guaranteed to hit their target.

Yet due to the way they function the projectiles themselves seem to have been given a bit more "life" to cause damage beyond that to compensate for things such as travel time and thus allow the projectiles to consistently do damage as opposed to get stuck on terrain or fail because something suddenly went juuust out of range due to the slower speed of the projectile.

With the rifle's projectile, however, it travels significantly faster and directly to the target, meaning that if you fire at something in range it generally won't have a chance to get out of range without being hit.

All of this is, of course, assuming line of sight, which, given the arc of the bow weapons doesn't always mean it'll hit, it could still hit a ceiling or other terrain if the positions aren't quite optimal.

What I don't want to see happen is Anet give Thieves the (S/D Jump+ Infiltrator Step Skill 2 Treatment) Where they "Fixed" this skill nearly 3-4 years afterwards. This range issue has been a problem for years. But now since Thieves have rifle's and we (Thank God for whoever you look up.. or down to) have a RANGE INDICATOR (the circle around our kneel indicating "1500" range, thieves now have the ability to argue and hold Anet accountable for this. Because it needs to be FIXED.

• And since we're on the topic of fixing. Fix the Kneel and Death Judgement bug where you precast Death Judgement then use Shadowstep, but your DJ doesn't reach your target due to again, this "1500" range buffer, because as you said above ^ "This seems to mean that the sniper's shot completely stops and disappears after 1500 range".
• EDIT: Precast anything with rifle in general with use of shadowstep, and you can literally beat your bullet, and see where your bullet cuts off. This is best noticeable with double tap, or triple tap.

[Turk.5460]

@"trianglecubed.3750" said:With the rifle's projectile, however, it travels significantly faster and directly to the target, meaning that if you fire at something in range it generally won't have a chance to get out of range without being hit.

This is completely incorrect, where are you getting your information? You seem to be mixing up Rifle with Longbow. The projectile velocity of Longbow arrows are much faster than DE Rifle when the DE is standing. When kneeling, the velocities seem to be similar, with the Longbow still seemingly higher... There is also an incredibly high chance that your target will get out of range without being hit, if the rifle is initially fired right within the range threshold - both standing and kneeling. Have you played Rifle DE?

However, what you said is true to Longbow, and stated such previously by a Dev if I recall. That's the whole "range buffer" that this thread is founded on. Something that Rifle does not have.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@"trianglecubed.3750" said:In terms of mechanics in the actual game, the thing a sniper thief shoots appears to be more of a sort of energy bolt than an actual physical "lobbed" projectile like what ranger bows shoot.

This seems to mean that the sniper's shot completely stops and disappears after 1500 range, however since the ranger shoots physical projectiles in a manner to in-game mortar shots they have a "weight" and don't just disappear after the effective maximum , they keep going beyond their range for a noticeable amount of time or until they hit something solid. You can see this by using some camera tricks to "dead aim" or manually aim the arcing projectiles to hit things that are "out of range."

When it comes to physical lobbed projectiles as opposed to things like energy blasts which the sniper shots appear to be, the physical projectiles generally exist until they hit something such as terrain or an enemy, though they do have a hard distance it isn't nearly what is listed. What's listed seems to be the maximum range that things such as auto attack and other attacks can be nearly guaranteed to hit their target.

Yet due to the way they function the projectiles themselves seem to have been given a bit more "life" to cause damage beyond that to compensate for things such as travel time and thus allow the projectiles to consistently do damage as opposed to get stuck on terrain or fail because something suddenly went juuust out of range due to the slower speed of the projectile.

With the rifle's projectile, however, it travels significantly faster and directly to the target, meaning that if you fire at something in range it generally won't have a chance to get out of range without being hit.

All of this is, of course, assuming line of sight, which, given the arc of the bow weapons doesn't always mean it'll hit, it could still hit a ceiling or other terrain if the positions aren't quite optimal.

You seem to not understand an Anet Dev on the old forums stated all- and they said ALL attacks have a 15% Range Buffer to allow for tracking this is not the case with has denoted by Thieves Rifle since they have a clear indicator that shows it stopping exactly at the indicator, and if what you try to claim with the “speed”/ Arc then why does Mesmer GS AA hit for much farther than 1200 Range? Oh right the Buffer that was stated by Devs.

[Kuulpb.5412]

The reason being is the physics, Arrows are fired in an arc, so they are always going to end up firing farther than a bullet, but as a result they are usually a small bit slower than a bullet. it's the same with things like Warrior's Killshot (1500 range) and Warrior longbow (1200 range) Both hit about the same distance.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Kuulpb.5412 said:The reason being is the physics, Arrows are fired in an arc, so they are always going to end up firing farther than a bullet, but as a result they are usually a small bit slower than a bullet. it's the same with things like Warrior's Killshot (1500 range) and Warrior longbow (1200 range) Both hit about the same distance.

Again look at Mesmer GS AA shoots further than 1200 (guess what no Arc its a Beam attack) and Devs stated ALL Attacks amhave a 15% Range Buffer. This is true except for Thief Rifle, quit trying to say but it’s physics when this have been proven wrong by Dev statements and other ingame attacks.

[trianglecubed.3750]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@"Kuulpb.5412" said:The reason being is the physics, Arrows are fired in an arc, so they are always going to end up firing farther than a bullet, but as a result they are usually a small bit slower than a bullet. it's the same with things like Warrior's Killshot (1500 range) and Warrior longbow (1200 range) Both hit about the same distance.

Again look at Mesmer GS AA shoots further than 1200 (guess what no Arc its a Beam attack) and Devs stated ALL Attacks amhave a 15% Range Buffer. This is true except for Thief Rifle, quit trying to say but it’s physics when this have been proven wrong by Dev statements and other ingame attacks.

Regardless of what was stated, I am using only my experience from the last 5+ years of playing and I can say, with no doubt, that certain projectiles simply don't function the same as other projectiles. The "projectile" of the thief's rifle doesn't function the same as the projectile of a ranger's bow and this leads to the discrepancy. The rifle ends where it says whereas the slower lobbed projectile does not. That's how these things have always worked, that's how it seems to work on the engine this game runs, and that is that.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@trianglecubed.3750 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@"Kuulpb.5412" said:The reason being is the physics, Arrows are fired in an arc, so they are always going to end up firing farther than a bullet, but as a result they are usually a small bit slower than a bullet. it's the same with things like Warrior's Killshot (1500 range) and Warrior longbow (1200 range) Both hit about the same distance.

Again look at Mesmer GS AA shoots further than 1200 (guess what no Arc its a Beam attack) and Devs stated ALL Attacks amhave a 15% Range Buffer. This is true except for Thief Rifle, quit trying to say but it’s physics when this have been proven wrong by Dev statements and other ingame attacks.

Regardless of what was stated, I am using only my experience from the last 5+ years of playing and I can say, with no doubt, that certain projectiles simply don't function the same as other projectiles. The "projectile" of the thief's rifle doesn't function the same as the projectile of a ranger's bow and this leads to the discrepancy. The rifle ends where it says whereas the slower lobbed projectile does not. That's how these things have always worked, that's how it seems to work on the engine this game runs, and that is that.

Again if that is how it works explain Other Rifle skills having the buffer and Mesmer AA, bet you can’t.

Again you are reaching, when Devs(you know the people that actually know how the game function) have said all skills (let’s say it again I feel it might have been typed to fast the first couple times) ALL skills have a 15% Range Buffer that is nonexistent on Thief Rifle Kneeling.

[Bast.7253]

It is really frustrating playing wvw and having a ranger pelt me from the wall while I'm standing in inner Stonemist, knowing I can't reach. But it's the same with ele staff skills and probably necro though I haven't noticed. The way the projectile is designed.

Honestly wouldn't mind getting a bit of a range increase as Deadeye rifle unless you're really skilled or have a specific build for increased stealth isn't very viable when you have rangers sitting back farther than you shooting you with arrows. Half the time when I'm going up against a zerg I'm getting "out of range," "obstructed," or "blocked" anyway which means I just wasted a ton of resources on my biggest damaging skill. (All while rangers are still hitting you or scourges are running at you like suicide bombers spamming shade skills.)

[Kuulpb.5412]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@trianglecubed.3750 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@"Kuulpb.5412" said:The reason being is the physics, Arrows are fired in an arc, so they are always going to end up firing farther than a bullet, but as a result they are usually a small bit slower than a bullet. it's the same with things like Warrior's Killshot (1500 range) and Warrior longbow (1200 range) Both hit about the same distance.

Again look at Mesmer GS AA shoots further than 1200 (guess what no Arc its a Beam attack) and Devs stated ALL Attacks amhave a 15% Range Buffer. This is true except for Thief Rifle, quit trying to say but it’s physics when this have been proven wrong by Dev statements and other ingame attacks.

Regardless of what was stated, I am using only my experience from the last 5+ years of playing and I can say, with no doubt, that certain projectiles simply don't function the same as other projectiles. The "projectile" of the thief's rifle doesn't function the same as the projectile of a ranger's bow and this leads to the discrepancy. The rifle ends where it says whereas the slower lobbed projectile does not. That's how these things have always worked, that's how it seems to work on the engine this game runs, and that is that.

Again if that is how it works explain Other Rifle skills having the buffer and Mesmer AA, bet you can’t.

Again you are reaching, when Devs(you know the people that actually know how the game function) have said all skills (let’s say it again I feel it might have been typed to fast the first couple times) ALL skills have a 15% Range Buffer that is nonexistent on Thief Rifle Kneeling.

warrior rifle doesn't have this, engineer rifle doesn't have this.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Kuulpb.5412 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@trianglecubed.3750 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Kuulpb.5412 said:The reason being is the physics, Arrows are fired in an arc, so they are always going to end up firing farther than a bullet, but as a result they are usually a small bit slower than a bullet. it's the same with things like Warrior's Killshot (1500 range) and Warrior longbow (1200 range) Both hit about the same distance.

Again look at Mesmer GS AA shoots further than 1200 (guess what no Arc its a Beam attack) and Devs stated ALL Attacks amhave a 15% Range Buffer. This is true except for Thief Rifle, quit trying to say but it’s physics when this have been proven wrong by Dev statements and other ingame attacks.

Regardless of what was stated, I am using only my experience from the last 5+ years of playing and I can say, with no doubt, that certain projectiles simply don't function the same as other projectiles. The "projectile" of the thief's rifle doesn't function the same as the projectile of a ranger's bow and this leads to the discrepancy. The rifle ends where it says whereas the slower lobbed projectile does not. That's how these things have always worked, that's how it seems to work on the engine this game runs, and that is that.

Again if that is how it works explain Other Rifle skills having the buffer and Mesmer AA, bet you can’t.

Again you are reaching, when Devs(you know the people that actually know how the game function) have said all skills (let’s say it again I feel it might have been typed to fast the first couple times) ALL skills have a 15% Range Buffer that is nonexistent on Thief Rifle Kneeling.

warrior rifle doesn't have this, engineer rifle doesn't have this.

Yes it does it’s easy to see when using it against Thief Rifle, maybe if people tested these things they would understand, I sat in GH with a buddy and tested every ranged weapon that gave 1200-1500 Attacks to see if it was just Thief Kneeling and low and behold it was just a Thief Kneel Skills, The 1200 Range From standing has the Buffer.

[AikijinX.6258]

It would really be lovely to get some further developer insight into this matter.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@AikijinX.6258 said:It would really be lovely to get some further developer insight into this matter.

It’s what everyone’s been asking since the last thing a Dev has ever stated on the matter was in a obscure thread stating all attacks have or are supposed to have a 15% Range Buffer to help with tracking purposes (which is clearly not the case as demonstrated with a Thief Rifle) that was posted on the old forums over 2 years ago and that thread can’t be accessed any more.

[Hibiskus.8294]

Well speaking of Range is not on every weapon the same, i recordnized, when i fight jormag (without moving) with a staff mesmer (1200 range) that i dont hit the ice barrier often, most time it says "out of range", but when i swap to Greatsword (1200 range) i have no problems to hit the barrier, no message is saying to me out of range...and i have not moved a single step.....so 1200 on GS is not 1200 on Staff and 1500 on thief is not 1500 on ranger...i recordnized it with some other classes, but i forget wich one since i mostly play as thief or mesmer....

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@"Hibiskus.8294" said:Well speaking of Range is not on every weapon the same, i recordnized, when i fight jormag (without moving) with a staff mesmer (1200 range) that i dont hit the ice barrier often, most time it says "out of range", but when i swap to Greatsword (1200 range) i have no problems to hit the barrier, no message is saying to me out of range...and i have not moved a single step.....so 1200 on GS is not 1200 on Staff and 1500 on thief is not 1500 on ranger...i recordnized it with some other classes, but i forget wich one since i mostly play as thief or mesmer....

Which is the Issue that people are asking Dev clarification on since a while ago on the old forums a Dev specifically stated “All Melee and Ranged Attacks have a 15% Range Buffer to assist with Tracking” they didn’t say Some or Most they said All, so either they need to Go in and fix the discrepancies per skill so all skills include the 15% Buffer, Stamdardize all the outliers that are hitting beyond their Stated and so far intended skill range or update all the tool tips to more accurately depict and matches their actual intended Range.

Players have been asking for this clarification, just a simple acknowledgement/Response for over 3 months now without a single word from the Devs, but hey post anything about a cosmetic item or a gem store item and bam there is a response within the hour.

[Turk.5460]

@trianglecubed.3750 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@"Kuulpb.5412" said:The reason being is the physics, Arrows are fired in an arc, so they are always going to end up firing farther than a bullet, but as a result they are usually a small bit slower than a bullet. it's the same with things like Warrior's Killshot (1500 range) and Warrior longbow (1200 range) Both hit about the same distance.

Again look at Mesmer GS AA shoots further than 1200 (guess what no Arc its a Beam attack) and Devs stated ALL Attacks amhave a 15% Range Buffer. This is true except for Thief Rifle, quit trying to say but it’s physics when this have been proven wrong by Dev statements and other ingame attacks.

Regardless of what was stated, I am using only my experience from the last 5+ years of playing and I can say, with no doubt, that certain projectiles simply don't function the same as other projectiles. The "projectile" of the thief's rifle doesn't function the same as the projectile of a ranger's bow and this leads to the discrepancy. The rifle ends where it says whereas the slower lobbed projectile does not. That's how these things have always worked, that's how it seems to work on the engine this game runs, and that is that.

What is the slower lobbed projectile? The arrow from a Ranger's longbow? 5+ years of playing, you say? Ranger longbow velocities are faster than every other weapon projectile in the game aside from maybe DE's velocity while kneeling only. And even then, it still seems like Ranger LB velocity is marginally faster...

[InsaneQR.7412]

I know that arrows fly actually further in GW2 than the range indicators suggest. But targeting is only available at 1500 range.So it must be definetly a bug that deadeyes cant hit rangers at max range of LB.But its possible that rangers with action cam just shoot at targets out of max range and the arrows hit because they dont disappear.Eitherway they should take a look at this.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@"InsaneQR.7412" said:I know that arrows fly actually further in GW2 than the range indicators suggest. But targeting is only available at 1500 range.So it must be definetly a bug that deadeyes cant hit rangers at max range of LB.But its possible that rangers with action cam just shoot at targets out of max range and the arrows hit because they dont disappear.Eitherway they should take a look at this.

You can be outside the 1500 Range and still target and shoot the players, tested this in Guildhall Arena, buddy say at Edge Of Arena I started from Dead Center (GH is 3000 units diameter)and backed directly up incrementally till he couldn’t hit me, then went back to where he could, he was still able to shoot me de target and shoot some more but all of my projectiles stopped exactly at 1500 Range.

https://imgur.com/a/5pREw screenshots to emphasize the discrepancy

[AikijinX.6258]

Prime examples: (1:16), (1:44), (2:22) and much more.

Anet this is absurd. Allow a range buffer for all weapon sets equally, or change tool tip to disallow confusion.

1500 Range is 1500 Range, and giving range buffer's to some but not all 1500 range weapons, does not allow for equal opportunity and falls in line with unfair advantages and I would go as far as to say exploitation.

[Swagger.1459]

@AikijinX.6258 said:

Prime examples: (1:16), (1:44), (2:22) and much more.

Anet this is absurd. Allow a range buffer for all weapon sets equally, or change tool tip to disallow confusion.

1500 Range is 1500 Range, and giving range buffer's to some but not all 1500 range weapons, does not allow for equal opportunity and falls in line with unfair advantages and I would go as far as to say exploitation.

Your "prime examples" do not show a range, so all you are doing is assume the range.

Also, sure, lets fix this 1500 range stuff ... but I challenge you to be so passionate about the stealth tracking bug you discovered (and use) with deadeye marks, because "does not allow for equal opportunity and falls in line with unfair advantages and I would go as far as to say exploitation.". Or should I just tell you, like you told me?

@AikijinX.6258 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Interesting... have you reported this tracking bug?

Unless said otherwise by anet ill take it as is.

Edit- Maybe the range on deadeye rifle is intended due to the amount of damage it puts out? Maybe?

[Lahmia.2193]

Just as melee auto attacks have a range beyond their listed amount (130 listed has a range of 170 - tested on reaper greatsword), many ranged attacks have greater ranges beyond their listed amount.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Lahmia.2193 said:Just as melee auto attacks have a range beyond their listed amount (130 listed has a range of 170 - tested on reaper greatsword), many ranged attacks have greater ranges beyond their listed amount.

Which was explained but an Anet Dev on the old forums stating All Attacks ranged and Melee have a 15% Range Buffer, but it is quite clear that is not the case as demonstrated by the Deadeye Rifle. So either they need to fix this and all weapons lacking the 15% Buffer need it added or they equalize all the skills so their distance accurately reflects what the tooltip says

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@AikijinX.6258 said:

Prime examples: (1:16), (1:44), (2:22) and much more.

Anet this is absurd. Allow a range buffer for all weapon sets equally, or change tool tip to disallow confusion.

1500 Range is 1500 Range, and giving range buffer's to some but not all 1500 range weapons, does not allow for equal opportunity and falls in line with unfair advantages and I would go as far as to say exploitation.

Your "prime examples" do not show a range, so all you are doing is assume the range.

Also, sure, lets fix this 1500 range stuff ... but I challenge you to be so passionate about the stealth tracking bug you discovered (and use) with deadeye marks, because "does not allow for equal opportunity and falls in line with unfair advantages and I would go as far as to say exploitation.". Or should I just tell you, like you told me?

@AikijinX.6258 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Interesting... have you reported this tracking bug?

Unless said otherwise by anet ill take it as is.

Pray tell what stealth tracking with Mark? I don’t play Deadeye and have never heard of this.

[Swagger.1459]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@AikijinX.6258 said:

Prime examples: (1:16), (1:44), (2:22) and much more.

Anet this is absurd. Allow a range buffer for all weapon sets equally, or change tool tip to disallow confusion.

1500 Range is 1500 Range, and giving range buffer's to some but not all 1500 range weapons, does not allow for equal opportunity and falls in line with unfair advantages and I would go as far as to say exploitation.

Your "prime examples" do not show a range, so all you are doing is assume the range.

Also, sure, lets fix this 1500 range stuff ... but I challenge you to be so passionate about the stealth tracking bug you discovered (and use) with deadeye marks, because "does not allow for equal opportunity and falls in line with unfair advantages and I would go as far as to say exploitation.". Or should I just tell you, like you told me?

@AikijinX.6258 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Interesting... have you reported this tracking bug?

Unless said otherwise by anet ill take it as is.

Pray tell what stealth tracking with Mark? I don’t play Deadeye and have never heard of this.

Well, you could ask aikijinx or read the thread and find it... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/17875/aikijinx-1-shot-thief-daredevil-roaming-outnumbered-vol-6/p1

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@AikijinX.6258 said:

Prime examples: (1:16), (1:44), (2:22) and much more.

Anet this is absurd. Allow a range buffer for all weapon sets equally, or change tool tip to disallow confusion.

1500 Range is 1500 Range, and giving range buffer's to some but not all 1500 range weapons, does not allow for equal opportunity and falls in line with unfair advantages and I would go as far as to say exploitation.

Your "prime examples" do not show a range, so all you are doing is assume the range.

Also, sure, lets fix this 1500 range stuff ... but I challenge you to be so passionate about the stealth tracking bug you discovered (and use) with deadeye marks, because "does not allow for equal opportunity and falls in line with unfair advantages and I would go as far as to say exploitation.". Or should I just tell you, like you told me?

@AikijinX.6258 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Interesting... have you reported this tracking bug?

Unless said otherwise by anet ill take it as is.

Pray tell what stealth tracking with Mark? I don’t play Deadeye and have never heard of this.

Well, you could ask aikijinx or read the thread and find it...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/17875/aikijinx-1-shot-thief-daredevil-roaming-outnumbered-vol-6/p1

Disregard it’s in the patch notes of Nov 7th. But this thread is about Range discrepancies on Rifle skills not Deadeye F2 on Marked Targets.