Thief 1500 Rifle range, and Ranger "1500" LB range (Video Evidence Now Included)

[Imperadordf.2687]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Slower weighted projectiles gain range when throw from higher spots. It's a tradeoff from being slower.

Rifles and pistols fire must faster and are much harder to avoid.

If I’m not mistaken, this is wrong. A Ranger Longbow arrows go faster than a Deadeye Rifle projectile while standing up. Deadeyes need to kneel down, which immobilizes them, to achieve faster velocity.

What we need is not changing that. It's making the game telling better to players that arrows and thrown rocks gain range when throw from a higher spot.

This one’s wrong too. Arrows and rocks should not gain range when thrown from higher spots, they should gain velocity. That is easier and better to tell, according to your logic.

Just give the Rifle %15 Range Buffer and we’re good to go.

[Faaris.8013]

@Turk.5460 said:The reason is for it to be fair, either give that extra range to all ranged damage dealing projectiles, or none. This doesn't seem like the type of issue that requires much effort at all to fix. Especially when comparing it to the effort needed when re-hauling individual skills.

They probably don't want to increase the actual rifle range for thieves, but don't want to deal with the shitstorm from the ranger community either after nerfing fixing their longbow range either.

So Anet is doing what they do best. Not acting and not communicating.

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Slower weighted projectiles gain range when throw from higher spots. It's a tradeoff from being slower.

Rifles and pistols fire much faster and are much harder to avoid.

What we need is not changing that. It's making the game telling better to players that arrows and thrown rocks gain range when throw from a higher spot.

So if that's how it works, does a Norn at max size has more range with longbow than an Asura at smallest size?

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Slower weighted projectiles gain range when throw from higher spots. It's a tradeoff from being slower.

Rifles and pistols fire much faster and are much harder to avoid.

What we need is not changing that. It's making the game telling better to players that arrows and thrown rocks gain range when throw from a higher spot.

Go watch the videos, that’s not the case, it show cases with the Ranger on Lower elevation, Same elevation and on higher elevation and it is just overall further range with no variation dependent on elevation of the Ranger.

[Neil.3825]

And what is the pet's range to follow you and attack ? 2000 ? Plus you can't hide from him.

[Zedek.8932]

Excelsior.

@"Inoki.6048" said:[...]It's called Deadeye, so it should be deadly, not deadmeat, a sitting duck that anyone can play ping pong with. [...]

The term comes from "dead" as in definitive, and "eye" from sight/aim.It means we can shoot at an (almost) perfect aim, it does not say anything about that range. If we hit 100% of the shots from a pistol, or even a slingshot, heck even pea flicked off a spoon at the table that hits its target is being covered by that.

A real sniper requires a 2-man group often, we are just well-skilled marksmen.

@"Inoki.6048" said:Anyhow, this profession does not fit this genre and above all, is a ridicule by design.

It surely does fit and it plays very well, except for these things. It has nothing to do with the profession, not even with the design per se. It has to do with ... I gotta say that now, incompetent designers around it. Just like those handgrenades in shooters that do 25% health in the explosion's center. These things which say "Wow, a grenade, it must hurt" and then does nothing more like a firecracker to the players is not the fault of having said grenade, but about bad developers failing to understand what a grenade implies to the their users.The biggest problem with these boards and basically every discussion in it, that it seem to be always about PvP. PvE Deadeye is beautiful, and I love to read trough the "I've been one-shotted by Deadeye in PvP" threads so much.

@"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:Sounds like your obsessed with tooltips, which aren’t anet’s best hand.

Unfair advantage is your opinion and not everyone agrees with you.

The problem here lies with a tooltip being given a number (that also makes sense if you think about this professions design decisions and background) it surely feels very strong like it is supposed to be like that. Imagine you see a blueprint of your future home and when you see the actual building, you say "But you have this extra room on the blueprints" and you then the foreman says "Who cares, it's 15% error quota" and you surely would say "Oh, okay then". Yeah, of course..

It is clearly an unfair advantage and a bug when ONE professions misses something that is avaible to others. How can you be so strangely obsessed with failing to see the pink elephant in the room??

[hypehype.9047]

Its a feature until anet can work out how to fix its.

[Sojourner.4621]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@AikijinX.6258 said:I don't wanna hear about history, and physics, density, air drag, resistance, wingtips, etc.

1500 Range, IS 1500 RANGE for EVERYONE, in every scenario, otherwise give us the 1200 range that we obviously MUST have compared to Ranger LB.

Well, Ranger has 1500+elevation modifier while DE Rifle has 1500 range flat. Longbow cannot shoot 1500 uphill for instance while DE Rifle can.

EDIT: typo

That’s not right, the real reason is every attack has a 15% Range Buffer (this was clarified by Devs on the old forums) except for Thief Rifle it lack that and seems to be hard coded at the 1500 Range.

That's not true either because this actually effects rifle on every class, as well as pistols. BOWS have a 15% range buffer.

[Turk.5460]

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@AikijinX.6258 said:I don't wanna hear about history, and physics, density, air drag, resistance, wingtips, etc.

1500 Range, IS 1500 RANGE for EVERYONE, in every scenario, otherwise give us the 1200 range that we obviously MUST have compared to Ranger LB.

Well, Ranger has 1500+elevation modifier while DE Rifle has 1500 range flat. Longbow cannot shoot 1500 uphill for instance while DE Rifle can.

EDIT: typo

That’s not right, the real reason is every attack has a 15% Range Buffer (this was clarified by Devs on the old forums) except for Thief Rifle it lack that and seems to be hard coded at the 1500 Range.

That's not true either because this actually effects rifle on every class, as well as pistols. BOWS have a 15% range buffer.

I was under the impression anything that was an arced projectile benefits from the buffer. e.g. Fireball

[Sojourner.4621]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@AikijinX.6258 said:I don't wanna hear about history, and physics, density, air drag, resistance, wingtips, etc.

1500 Range, IS 1500 RANGE for EVERYONE, in every scenario, otherwise give us the 1200 range that we obviously MUST have compared to Ranger LB.

Well, Ranger has 1500+elevation modifier while DE Rifle has 1500 range flat. Longbow cannot shoot 1500 uphill for instance while DE Rifle can.

EDIT: typo

That’s not right, the real reason is every attack has a 15% Range Buffer (this was clarified by Devs on the old forums) except for Thief Rifle it lack that and seems to be hard coded at the 1500 Range.

That's not true either because this actually effects rifle on every class, as well as pistols. BOWS have a 15% range buffer.

I was under the impression anything that was an arced projectile benefits from the buffer. e.g. Fireball

That may be true... I have not tested this with other types of projectile like that. The implication that it's JUST Deadeye rifle that suffers from this is wrong, however. All rifles and pistols do, after testing this on war and engi both (Mesmer pistol is difficult to test because bounce, mesmer GS 1 behaves strangely for a non-projectile non-arcing ranged shot, Guardian scepter 1 behaves similarly to rifle/pistol), just no one really notices because Deadeye is the only class that relies heavily on max range bullet spam.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@AikijinX.6258 said:I don't wanna hear about history, and physics, density, air drag, resistance, wingtips, etc.

1500 Range, IS 1500 RANGE for EVERYONE, in every scenario, otherwise give us the 1200 range that we obviously MUST have compared to Ranger LB.

Well, Ranger has 1500+elevation modifier while DE Rifle has 1500 range flat. Longbow cannot shoot 1500 uphill for instance while DE Rifle can.

EDIT: typo

That’s not right, the real reason is every attack has a 15% Range Buffer (this was clarified by Devs on the old forums) except for Thief Rifle it lack that and seems to be hard coded at the 1500 Range.

That's not true either because this actually effects rifle on every class, as well as pistols. BOWS have a 15% range buffer.

The direct quote from the Devs is all Melee and Ranged skills have a 15% Range Buffer, and that was in response to someone asking about a non Arcing projectile skill.

It may affect other skills and it needs to be fixed across the board since having multiple skills that say the same exact range but in fact aren’t is a problem.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065Could you check into this issue? And an actual explanation behind it? Posted on this topic a few times in the Bug Sub Forums to no avail, any explanation would be welcome if it’s intended or not, and if it’s intended why have skills state they are X Range but clearly aren’t when compared to other X Range Skills.

@Karl McLain.5604

[Turk.5460]

Still no answer on this, huh?

[TwiceDead.1963]

@Turk.5460 said:Still no answer on this, huh?

Don't think it's gonna happen dude. Annoying as it is, we'll just have to deal. Maybe they can't do anything about it, as someone said earlier that arcing projectiles travel further on the merit of merely being an arcing projectile, while bullet-projectiles are hard-coded to vanish after they hit max-range.

I'm just speculating ofcourse...

[Tinnel.4369]

@Genesis.5169 said:

@"AikijinX.6258" said:I don't wanna hear any physics talk about how arrows are supposed to fly farther because of their density or wing tips or any of that.

I'm sorry to say but arrows are supposed to fly farther because they are denser and have wing tips so they are more aerodynamic here see

https://sites.google.com/site/technicalarchery/technical-discussions-1/drag-coefficients-of-bullets-arrows-and-spears

And any marksman worth their salt redopes their weapon to compensate for the differences in distance and wind. If you're arguing that you can make a shot at say 500 yds with an arrow that you can't with a bullet.....

It's not because arrows, it'ss because ANet...

[Turk.5460]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@"AikijinX.6258" said:I don't wanna hear any physics talk about how arrows are supposed to fly farther because of their density or wing tips or any of that.

I'm sorry to say but arrows are supposed to fly farther because they are denser and have wing tips so they are more aerodynamic here see

https://sites.google.com/site/technicalarchery/technical-discussions-1/drag-coefficients-of-bullets-arrows-and-spears

And any marksman worth their salt redopes their weapon to compensate for the differences in distance and wind. If you're arguing that you can make a shot at say 500 yds with an arrow that you can't with a bullet.....

It's not because arrows, it'ss because ANet...

Though you're not wrong, the point you are arguing against is moot regardless... And that dude is not the only one to bring up Aerodynamics, its baffling why they think that has any relevance to the range of a gun vs. bow - both real life or in game. According to the most basic google search:

Arrows - 250 feet per secondBullet - 2,500 feet per secondMusketballs - 1,000 feet per second

[SteepledHat.1345]

Finally, someone went to the trouble of proving what I've been saying for ages. Nerf the longbow range to be within it's limits. It's been well over that since it was adjusted.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@"AikijinX.6258" said:I don't wanna hear any physics talk about how arrows are supposed to fly farther because of their density or wing tips or any of that.

I'm sorry to say but arrows are supposed to fly farther because they are denser and have wing tips so they are more aerodynamic here see

https://sites.google.com/site/technicalarchery/technical-discussions-1/drag-coefficients-of-bullets-arrows-and-spears

And any marksman worth their salt redopes their weapon to compensate for the differences in distance and wind. If you're arguing that you can make a shot at say 500 yds with an arrow that you can't with a bullet.....

It's not because arrows, it'ss because ANet...

Though you're not wrong, the point you are arguing against is moot regardless... And that dude is not the only one to bring up Aerodynamics, its baffling why they think that has any relevance to the range of a gun vs. bow - both real life or in game. According to the most basic google search:

Arrows - 250 feet per secondBullet - 2,500 feet per secondMusketballs - 1,000 feet per second

True that, just trying to shut it down with a swiftness.

[ChartFish.1308]

idk what ya'll talking about, both ranger auto and thief auto have a 3/4 sec cast time? I mean sure, you can decrease it by Lead the Wind but until recently no ranger worth their salt took MMS over either WS or BM. Unless you were running core in which case you probably just took Remorseless anyway.Fun fact. Thief pistol auto reaches 900 range. Thief shortbow reaches 1200 range. This is just how projectiles behave, thieves aren't being excluded from having this buffer available to them

[Vornollo.5182]

I really don't understand the argument that some people are trying to make here...No, it's not just about buffing the DE Rifle.No, it's not just about nerfing the Rangers' Longbow.

It's about making everything fair across the board.Give everyone the 15% Buffer, or give it to noone.Arcing projectiles have the benefit of avoiding certain LoS issues.Straight Projectiles somewhat compensate by Jumping prior to a shot.

Noone is arguing that Arcing Projectiles and Straight projectiles shouldn't behave differently. In fact, it's good for gameplay diversity and flavour.But what is being argued, is that all "Range" should be treated equal.Either by everyone/everything getting the 15% buffer, or by noone/nothing having that 15% buffer.That's it, it's not about pointing fingers at classes or specific weapons or whatnot.It's about it simply being fair.

It's about the 'Range', not the Projectile behaviour and it's certainly not about your personal profession.This Range bug affects more professions and more weapons/skills. We just want it to be fair for everyone.

[Turk.5460]

@ChartFish.1308 said:>! >!idk what ya'll talking about, both ranger auto and thief auto have a 3/4 sec cast time? I mean sure, you can decrease it by Lead the Wind but until recently no ranger worth their salt took MMS over either WS or BM. Unless you were running core in which case you probably just took Remorseless anyway.Fun fact. Thief pistol auto reaches 900 range. Thief shortbow reaches 1200 range. This is just how projectiles behave, thieves aren't being excluded from having this buffer available to them

But does Thief Rifle reach 1875 range on flat ground like Ranger LB does?

! No, it stops exactly at 1200 standing and 1500 kneeling (a few units before 1500 actually, if the kneeling range indicator is of any truth.)

[ChartFish.1308]

@Turk.5460 said:No, it stops exactly at 1200 standing and 1500 kneeling (a few units before 1500 actually, if the kneeling range indicator is of any truth.)

So does warrior rifle, so does engineer rifle. Nothing unusual here.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@ChartFish.1308 said:

@"Turk.5460" said:No, it stops exactly at 1200 standing and 1500 kneeling (a few units before 1500 actually, if the kneeling range indicator is of any truth.)So does warrior rifle, so does engineer rifle. Nothing unusual here.

I really don't understand the argument that some people are trying to make here...No, it's not just about buffing the DE Rifle.No, it's not just about nerfing the Rangers' Longbow.

It's about making everything fair across the board.Give everyone the 15% Buffer, or give it to noone.Arcing projectiles have the benefit of avoiding certain LoS issues.Straight Projectiles somewhat compensate by Jumping prior to a shot.

Noone is arguing that Arcing Projectiles and Straight projectiles shouldn't behave differently. In fact, it's good for gameplay diversity and flavour.But what is being argued, is that all "Range" should be treated equal.Either by everyone/everything getting the 15% buffer, or by noone/nothing having that 15% buffer.That's it, it's not about pointing fingers at classes or specific weapons or whatnot.It's about it simply being fair.

It's about the 'Range', not the Projectile behaviour and it's certainly not about your personal profession.This Range bug affects more professions and more weapons/skills. We just want it to be fair for everyone.

[SoulSin.5682]

At very least update the skill information.

The fact that ranger longbow has higher range is not the problem. (yet)The fact that arrows have higher range due to physics mechanics than bullets is not the problem.

The 1500 range information from Rifles is not the same as the 1500 range information from Longbows. That's the problem.

[Obtena.7952]

@Genesis.5169 said:

@"AikijinX.6258" said:I don't wanna hear any physics talk about how arrows are supposed to fly farther because of their density or wing tips or any of that.

I'm sorry to say but arrows are supposed to fly farther because they are denser and have wing tips so they are more aerodynamic here see

https://sites.google.com/site/technicalarchery/technical-discussions-1/drag-coefficients-of-bullets-arrows-and-spears

Oh no, the "this is how it works IRL" being used to justify MMO balance again. >< Doesn't work that way.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@"AikijinX.6258" said:I don't wanna hear any physics talk about how arrows are supposed to fly farther because of their density or wing tips or any of that.

I'm sorry to say but arrows are supposed to fly farther because they are denser and have wing tips so they are more aerodynamic here see

https://sites.google.com/site/technicalarchery/technical-discussions-1/drag-coefficients-of-bullets-arrows-and-spears

Oh no, the "this is how it works IRL" being used to justify MMO balance again. >< Doesn't work that way.

Hey, if it's gonna work like it does irl, we can get 100K Range on bullets. I wouldn't say no./s