Wintersday Balance Update: Feedback Thread

[MakubeC.3026]

Please consider making Thieve's Death's Retreat change also for PvP. It is a good escape skill, but too expensive.

[Funkystuff.1563]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"Funkyshit.9126" said:i have to say that you should nerf all conditions of all classes. Elementalist especially the weaver elite uses a combination of power and condition to deal damage. nerfing that much the conditions wasn't that good idea. Ele never stucked insane ammounts of bleeding or burning like scourges or firebrands. i think you have to reconsider the nerf to conditions in some classes

Hell, some classes either didnt get touched or got buffed. Weaver has to be full zerk (or Zerk + Fresh Air) in order to deal damage, yet they still decide to nerf us!? Why!?These changes are nothing but a buff really to condi builds. Longer duration, easier to stack them.

longer duration isnt any good buff. no one will have bleeding or burning for 9 sec. they just cleanse them . the issue was that till you cleanse them you had a lot of stacks on you

[Turk.5460]

Why was Mesmer (Chrono/Mirage) confusion burst unaffected by your primary focus of this patch?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@"Funkyshit.9126" said:longer duration isnt any good buff. no one will have bleeding or burning for 9 sec. they just cleanse them . the issue was that till you cleanse them you had a lot of stacks on you

For ele it isnt due to the very low access to conditions. For others it is because they have plenty of access to constant covering conditions. So, nerf to ele. Buff to others and with the issue of constant application not being fixed, you will be hit with them constantly, so constant application of long duration conditions and at times you will simply be lucky (or unlucky...) in if you remove the damaging conditions with all the covering conditions on you.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

It was so simple, nerf over performing and over used builds, buff under performing and under used builds. Even easier since the goal was to nerf condi. And here we are, where FB healing is buffed, Condition Mirage is buffed, power and condition revenant nerfed, ele nerfed, condition engineer nerfed.

Stop. The. P2W.

[Halikus.1406]

@Turk.5460 said:Why was Mesmer (Chrono/Mirage) confusion burst unaffected by your primary focus of this patch?

You mean buffed right?

Imaginary Axes: Increased the confusion stacks applied by the player from 2 to 3. Increased the duration of confusion stacks applied by both the player and clones from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.Phantasmal Seeking Axe: Increased torment duration from 3 seconds to 4.5 seconds.

35 stacks of confusion thanks to this ^

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:It was so simple, nerf over performing and over used builds, buff under performing and under used builds. Even easier since the goal was to nerf condi. And here we are, where FB healing is buffed, Condition Mirage is buffed, power and condition revenant nerfed, ele nerfed, condition engineer nerfed.

Stop. The. P2W.

You would think its simple. The sad thing was, i said for several days that this update would end up being a BUFF to quite a few condition builds. Many said no. Well. Here we are. Knew this would happen. Though the condition AND damage nerf to ele did come as a surpirse, so they got me there :/

How they managed to nerf condi ele, buff Condi Mirage and do very little to the other condi builds i dont know. We are basically a crap version of firebrand if we go condi lol

[Ariurotl.3718]

I don't play much condi, so it doesn't affect me all that much... but since this is a thread that is about as close as confirmed to be attended by the devs, here's something I've been grumbling about for years:

PLEASE STOP GUARDIAN SHOUTS FROM AUTOTARGETING MOBS, WHO DECIDED THAT THEY SHOULD? None of them are attacks, they don't affect mobs in any way, so why has this been a thing since as long as I remember?

Back to your scheduled condition debate.

[Maugetarr.6823]

The initiative changes to Death's Retreat on Thief's rifle could have been made game wide instead of splitting it. It would be the same distance per point of initiative as shortbow 5, however it wouldn't have the same ability to aim it and use it for z-axis shadow steps, making it pretty balanced versus shortbow. I'm going to suggest putting a short blind (3 seconds) on it at the beginning of the cast too, since it doesn't have any evade frames. I know this was a balance patch out of the normal rotation so I won't throw a whole slew of change suggestions at you, but I think the above change could help nudge the rifle in the correct direction in PvP.

[zealex.9410]

@Beautilation.7915 said:i mean mirage condi application is already so bad, im glad you guys didnt nerf it :)

You are oblivious to mirage in pvp.

[Aetatis.5418]

i am not sure what happened.first: i like most changessecond: the power-dps on holosmith and power reaper on the test-golem dropped by 3k-4k dps ... and both got boosts with the recent update. i dont have numbers for other professions.i was able to pull 26.5k dps with my power reaper and although the axe got a dmg-boost (note: i didnt use unholy fervor pre-patch) my dps dropped to 23k.same on holosmith, with the build i used, i got 30k dps. now its down to 26k dps although i have 180 ferocity in addition to pre-patch.what happened here?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Beautilation.7915 said:i mean mirage condi application is already so bad, im glad you guys didnt nerf it :)

You are oblivious to mirage in pvp.

No. He IS a Mirage...

[zealex.9410]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Before you run off to wolf down another mince pie, can you clarify if this is the full extent of the changes you were focusing on or if there’s still more planned at a later date but that you felt weren’t ready for this patch?

I wish I was consuming delicious baked goods!

I answered the question you're asking in the other thread, but it may have been a bit buried so I'll quote it here as well:

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:To re-iterate and hopefully clarify something - this update is NOT an end-all resolution to power and condition builds, it is a step toward the goal of accentuating differences will lead to healthier options in several game modes. This is also a smaller scope update.

On that note should dragon hunter maybe be slightly buffed? Since classes like weaver and holosmith seem to just be flat out better than dh now.

Edit: why was axe left out of these condition changes?

[zealex.9410]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Beautilation.7915 said:i mean mirage condi application is already so bad, im glad you guys didnt nerf it :)

You are oblivious to mirage in pvp.

No. He IS a Mirage...

That makes it worse ;_;

[Lonecap.4105]

Guys you made Core Warrior no longer viable for WvW... please have Stick and Move as the WvW version, and the might stacks one in PvE. Guys nobody uses might in WvW, nobody can maintain 25 stacks like this. It's really gimped. PLEASE change this back jesus christ. THIS SUCKS!

[Sereath.1428]

For mesmers:Aside from Inspiring Distortion

Excuse me? Why the buffs?Buffs for who already had the strongest condi burst in the game 1v1... PvPWith no tells/telegraphs at all

And arguably one of the most braindead rotations in PvE

The message I keep getting from ANET is to not play PvP at all unless you play the "aids class of the season" game, huh much skill gap.

Ok then

[Turk.5460]

@Maugetarr.6823 said:The initiative changes to Death's Retreat on Thief's rifle could have been made game wide instead of splitting it. It would be the same distance per point of initiative as shortbow 5, however it wouldn't have the same ability to aim it and use it for z-axis shadow steps, making it pretty balanced versus shortbow. I'm going to suggest putting a short blind (3 seconds) on it at the beginning of the cast too, since it doesn't have any evade frames. I know this was a balance patch out of the normal rotation so I won't throw a whole slew of change suggestions at you, but I think the above change could help nudge the rifle in the correct direction in PvP.

I agree that the initiative change to Death's Retreat should have been in all modes.

Your suggestion to add a blind due to lack of evade frames is confusing. You are comparing DR to IA, IA does not offer evade frames either, nor does it have a poison, nor does it clear a condition. Adding a blind to DR would over-stack the skill.

[LeSavage.1359]

Are those condi duration changes for pvp and wvw only? If not, who the fk thought it will be great idea to make ppl kill things in pve 2 times longer with condi builds in PVE?

[Khenzy.9348]

The BIGGEST condi burst offender in the game (the main purpose of this patch no less), Condi Mirage, was untouched! You also managed to BUFF Firebrands, which are Tempests on steroids, many of them also used things like Merciful Intervention. GREAT!!!

....

Not.

[Urejt.5648]

Thief rifle was greatly buffed in pve, but why not in pvp? I guess anet looked at statistics and thought rifle is fine in pvp. But i must say i am the only rifle thief in high plat pvp and i must say rifle is very weak weapon, so pvp statiscics are very misleading for rifle. i got there purly by mechanical skills. Rifle thief is the only weapon in game very different in pvp and pve. Why is that? Anet could at least push rifle 4 changes for pvp. Help me understant lack of rifle buff. Rifle is useless in pve even after the patch, same story as sword, lack of autoatack dps.mirage is was untouched in pvp. Mirage confusion duration was not touyched. Mirage is still op in pvp. Why no nerf to mirage?

[Karl McLain.5604]

The primary design for confusion is 'burst'; it's expected to deliver a lot of stacks at once for low duration, punishing skill usage for a short while and then falling off quickly. Due to this difference in nature, we chose to leave it alone in this patch.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Can you just please come out and say that you don't actually try to balance for pvp? Or is it only considered as an afterthought? Or are you totally clueless about power levels between the classes in that game mode? Like seriously I feel like you guys should just go out and recruit some random player from the top 50 or so on the leader-board and hire him to join your balance team because you seem lost.

[zealex.9410]

@Karl McLain.5604 How come you didnt make distort share give barrier instead of aegis? Its a more interesting dynamic.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@"Karl McLain.5604" said:The primary design for confusion is 'burst'; it's expected to deliver a lot of stacks at once for low duration, punishing skill usage for a short while and then falling off quickly. Due to this difference in nature, we chose to leave it alone in this patch.

Considering this "burst" doesnt exactly have a long cool down now, considering they have MANY skills that apply confusion. This update did NOTHING to help the fight against constant and never ending application of conditions, it nerfed classes and builds that didnt even need to be nerfed! while buffing others!? Also, why the nerf to ele Direct damage AND conditions, the condition nerf is pointless as if anyone wants to play a condi burner, they go Firebrand more burning MUCH better support, basically Ele on level 100!

These changes make no sense what so ever, i do hope that the January update has more thought put into it because, this does nothing to fix the issues with Condi builds and in some cases makes the STRONGER o.o

[choovanski.5462]

@Karl McLain.5604 said:The primary design for confusion is 'burst'; it's expected to deliver a lot of stacks at once for low duration, punishing skill usage for a short while and then falling off quickly. Due to this difference in nature, we chose to leave it alone in this patch.

what do you mean 'falling off quickly'?

mirage burst (30+ confusion stacks) insta kills in PvP. it's literally the best 1v1 build in the game

at 35 confusion you will die if you do nothing. you will die if you use a cleanse skill with a cast time. you will die