October 8 Balance Update Preview

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

10 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

I was merely pointing that they didn't need to recraft them all.

Fair, yet restatting may be required which still hinders some

[Phyb.6704]

31 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

No but it causes another ecto inflation or monopoly because everyone using cele now needs to star swap to be worth a crap.

I don't use Cele but I'm all for reimbursing for an exchange item for people to restat them...or make all Cele gear stat swappable 1 more time if chosen BEFORE the patch thus making it stateless armor/trinket etc.

 

Unnecessarily screwing the players isn't fair

 

 

Yeah..... most use cele in open world builds and in many cases its exotic gear well a pure dps or support set is ascended for fractals. Be it stat swap or buying all new exotic gear its still kinda dumb. It kills a ton of builds. It should just replace ALL cele gear with stat selectable gear of the same quality... ascended / exotic and leave it at that. Once the patch hits you stat select your gear. I feel that is kinda fair for such a big change.

Remember that not all items needed to stat swap can be bought. The items for celestial itself you need to stat change TO celestial must be crafted. They bind on pickup. 

You cant buy all the incrip and insig... thats the larger issue. When you kill a whole gear set and then to fix said set to not be useless you need stuff you cant even get yet because you need a certain crafting or a certain currency to buy the recipe because its not tradeable REALLY does not make you wana play the game. 

Edited Sunday at 05:45 AM by Phyb.6704

[Titan.7853]

8 hours ago, Phyb.6704 said:

Celestial

The expertise and and concen gives about 42% bonus to times with all as celestial...
The problem is more so that full celestial gives THE SAME exp and concen as full ritualist which gives far less total stat but the SAME total for exp and concen. 
It does not need to be removed... it needed to be REDUCED to be balanced with other stat sets.
Celestial should not give the same exp and concen as ritualist.
Ritualist is 4 stats and celestial is 9. 

Why not just balance the stat totals.
Ascended helms concen and exp
Ritualist 30 / 30         Celestial 15 / 15 or even more like 12 / 12

The problem is balance and instead of adjusting the numbers.... just deleting the stat itself seems a bit LAZY

The problem has been obvious for a long time. Anet would rather delete the stats off a stat set then actually adjust them to be in line with other sets for total stat amount vs number of dif stats.

Car is backed into garage door. Owner says it was the pet dog that broke the garage door well the car is sticking through said garage door. It is really really dumb. Just balance your stat sets......... if a stat set gives all 9 stats then its exp and concen it gives should not be the same as a stat set that only gives 4/9 of the stats in the game....... It is really not that hard to figure. 

Scourge

This also seems kinda LAZY.

You could have adjusted the number that get pulled in.

You could have also given something to make not everyone take it.... 

Knowone takes unholy martyr...... why not change it to something that gives stability. Fixing a issue with scourge well making people take that over transfusion. 

Shocker that you are having to explain balance to the balance team.

I think it's even worse than laziness, because they've created a new system to give different stats to equipment in WvW.  They've hinted that Celestial is just the first to get the treatment. 

Many characters of mine have 4-8 equipment tabs.  I rely on each equipment tab being set up correctly, and working everywhere.  The LAST thing I need is a new split system where I can't swap between equipment sets, because they now behave one way in PvE and another way in WvW.  The math for crit capping, as an example, will be all screwed up.  Or taking sigils to get the right amount of concentration for boons will no longer be uniform.  That's a nightmare for me.  It ruins the stability, simplicity, and continuity of setting up your equipment and having it work everywhere.  

Just balance Celestial or outright ban that single set from WvW.  Instead, they are screwing with a stable system in a way that is going to make it more complex and generally worse.  I think that is a truly horrible solution, and the opposite of keeping it simple.

 

Edited Sunday at 01:53 PM by Titan.7853

[Thelgar.7214]

2 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

It wouldn't take you years because you can stat change gear with an exotic insignia/inscription of the desired combination, glob of ectoplasm, and anthologies at the mystic forge.

It would take years. None of the stat combinations that include concentration and expertise are attainable easily. They all require certain materials, recipes and crafting skills that weren't necessary to acquire the originals. Most trinkets, and especially those that were acquirable as celestial, can't be stat changed, nor can back pieces outside of when they're attuned and/or infused.

It would take years to do the things necessary to unlock that stuff, gather stuff to make stuff and buy stuff, and accumulate gold to buy all that stuff and level crafting skills for all that stuff.  Making 10 items across across 16 characters, that's 1600 ectos just to craft and make insignias and do the swap. Add in about a thousand cured hardened leather squares and 300 orichalcum plated dowels. It's a huge amount of money to go with a lot of time-consuming account bound things that need to be unlocked, and in some cases purchased for cash to be unlocked or available to be unlocked. 

Years.

[Svalinn.7480]

11 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Unless the combat starts from stealth/range without warning. Defensive stats let you survive the surprise burst and then counter. 

Also some players like to face tank. It's a popular playstyle in many, many games for a good reason.  Also very helpful for older players like me who don't have fast reaction times anymore. It lets more players play the game mode.

 

10 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

I want you to try playing with 1000ms-countryside-ping, along with the eyesight and the reflexes of my grandma (or anyone with some handicap).
Then come tell me it's people's fault they need to rely on celestial to avoid dying for not dodging quickly enough.

That's fine if you want to be tankier in order to survive initial bursts due to bad internet/failing eyesight. I get it, i'd be lying if I said I was still the gamer I was in my 20's. But they aren't removing the Toughness/Healing from the gear, they are removing the Concentration and Expertise. You can still run Celestial if a little extra tanking power is what you want from your gear, only difference is you will no longer be able to maintain large amounts of boons and strong condi pressure on top of the already substantial power damage (Considering the sheer amount of stats/benefits provided by the gear). This change won't be felt on the opening bursts people are afraid of, but moreso by the players who would just have insane uptime on Protection throughout the fight, so they will have to use those boons more intelligently rather that just hitting buttons on cooldown.

Trailblazer and other stat combinations also provide said tankiness but they come at a cost. The issue with Celestial in the state it's been in for the past few years is that there is no tradeoff. I personally like a little bit of additional toughness on some Power Builds in WvW so I run a little Cavalier in there to hit that 2400 armor sweet spot. Small trade off on crit chance but I gain in toughness.

And that's why this nerf is a good thing. It will hopefully promote people being more creative with their builds to fit their needs rather than just slapping Celestial on everything and calling it a day because the stat hard carries.

[Erysium.4501]

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

Hi, everyone,

Welcome to the preview for the October 8 balance update! We're only a few weeks past the release of Janthir Wilds, so this update will be a bit smaller as we continue to watch and evaluate the impact of the new spears and relics. As always, the goal of previewing these changes is to gather your feedback before the live release. We'll be following the conversation and making further adjustments as needed.

Thanks,

Cal "cmc" Cohen

Skills and Balance Lead

General

The Celestial attribute combination has been exceptionally powerful in WvW since the addition of concentration and expertise, and it's something that we've been monitoring for some time. With this update, we're introducing the tech to adjust equipment's attribute distribution and the amount of attributes it provides on a per game–mode basis. The first use of this will be to remove both concentration and expertise from equipment with Celestial attributes in WvW only, to bring it back in line with other attributes. We'll be keeping an eye on how the tech performs and whether it needs any final touches, but, assuming everything goes well, it's something that we may use going forward to tune other attribute combinations in WvW specifically.

• Celestial equipment will no longer grant concentration or expertise while in a WvW map.
• Revealed: Increased the duration in WvW to match PvP.

Elementalist

The June balance update included a few tune-ups to the elementalist's dagger skills in competitive modes with the goal of making them more viable picks. These changes didn't quite have the impact that we were hoping for, so we've made additional improvements to the dagger skills for this update. We've also bumped up the damage on a handful of spear skills in WvW and made a few smaller improvements for support-focused tempest and quickness-based catalyst builds.

• Burning Speed: Reduced the cooldown from 15 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Convergence: Increased the power coefficient from 1.2 to 1.35 in PvP and WvW.
• Updraft: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Ring of Earth: Increased the secondary-strike power coefficient from 1.1 to 1.25 in PvP and WvW.
• Churning Earth: Increased the power coefficient from 1.5 to 1.6 in PvP and WvW.
• Frozen Burst: Reduced the cooldown from 15 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Cleansing Wave: Reduced the cooldown from 25 to 20 in PvP and WvW. Increased the base healing to 2,222 in all game modes.
• Blazing Barrage: Increased the power coefficient from 0.9 to 1.05 in WvW only.
• Meteor: Increased the power coefficient from 1.2 to 1.35 in WvW only.
• Fissure: Increased the power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.15 in WvW only.
• Haboob: Increased the power coefficient from1.33 to 1.5 in WvW only.

Tempest

• "Wash the Pain Away!": This skill now removes a condition from allies on every pulse.
• Rebound: This skill now grants stability instead of fury.

Weaver

• Elemental Refreshment: This trait no longer applies barrier to allies. Increased the barrier from 523 to 1,003 in PvE only.
• Bolstered Elements: This trait now triggers Lesser Stone Resonance when you use an elite skill instead of at a health threshold. Reduced the internal cooldown from 70 seconds to 30 seconds. Increased the protection duration from 2.5 seconds to 3 seconds.
• Woven Stride: Reduced the internal cooldown from 5 seconds to 3 seconds.

Catalyst

• Invigorating Air: This skill now also grants 25 endurance when used.
• Spectacular Sphere: Increased the quickness duration from 2 seconds to 2.5 seconds in PvE only. Increased the might stacks from 5 to 8 in PvE only.
• Sphere Specialist: Increased the boon duration increase from 100% to 150% in PvE only. This trait now also allows the catalyst to gain energy while a jade sphere is deployed.

Engineer

Quickness-based scrapper is another boon-providing support build that we felt could use a bit more might generation, so we've added it to the trigger on Kinetic Accelerators. Flamethrower also gets a big upgrade with Smoke Vent becoming a stun break, which gives the kit a much-needed defensive tool.

• Blunderbuss: Increased the minimum power coefficient from 0.87 to 1.1 in PvP only.
• Energizing Slam: Increased the base barrier from 196 to 516 and the barrier scaling from 0.2 to 0.5 in PvP and WvW.
• Healing Mist: Reduced the cooldown from 28 seconds to 25 seconds.
• Utility Goggles: This skill now applies protection in addition to its previous effects.
• Regenerating Mist: Reduced the cooldown from 21 seconds to 18 seconds.
• Smoke Vent: This skill now breaks stun. Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Elixir X: Reduced the cooldown from 85 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Energy Amplifier: This trait now grants power in addition to its previous effects.

Scrapper

• Kinetic Accelerators: This trait now applies might in addition to quickness in PvE only.

Holosmith

• Crystal Configuration: Eclipse: This trait now only applies barrier on Corona Burst's first hit. Increased the barrier on hit from 991 to 2,256 in PvE and from 748 to 1,804 in PvP and WvW. The barrier on hit is reduced for each hit beyond the first.

Guardian

In this update, we've made improvements to a number of underutilized guardian skills and traits to make them more viable options, including additional healing on Symbol of Faith, an update to Honorable Staff that makes Empower also grant endurance to affected allies, and additional ammunition for "Hold the Line!"

• Symbol of Vengeance: Reduced the cooldown from 12 seconds to 8 seconds in PvP only.
• Blazing Edge: Reduced the cooldown from 18 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP only.
• Symbol of Faith: This skill now heals allies on impact. Reduced the casting time.
• Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds.
• Cleansing Flame: This skill now removes 2 conditions from the player when activated.
• "Hold the Line!": Increased the ammunition from 1 to 2.
• Signet of Judgment: This skill now applies protection in addition to its previous effects.
• Signet of Courage: This skill now breaks stun for the user and nearby allies when activated.
• Protector's Restoration: Reduced the internal cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only.
• Honorable Staff: This skill no longer grants additional concentration while wielding a staff and now causes Empower to grant endurance to allies.
• Writ of Persistence: Increased the healing from 64 to 107 in PvP and WvW.

Dragonhunter

• Hunter's Fortification: This trait no longer grants damage reduction and now heals when you block an attack in addition to removing a condition.

Willbender

• Heel Crack: Increased the ammunition from 1 to 2 in PvE only.

Mesmer

Ether Barrage is a skill that can vary significantly in effectiveness depending on which randomly chosen condition it applies with each strike. We wanted the skill to be more consistent, and going forward it will always inflict the same amount of torment and confusion every time the skill is used. We've also made some improvements to off-hand sword and axe in competitive modes and tuned up some other underperforming skills and traits.

• Axes of Symmetry: Reduced the cooldown from 12 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Lingering Thoughts: Increased the torment duration from 4 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW
• Phantasmal Swordsman: Reduced the cooldown from 20 seconds to 18 seconds in PvP and WvW. Increased the initial phantasm hit damage from 0.35 to 0.5 and the flurry damage coefficient per hit from 0.1 to 0.12 in PvP and WvW.
• Mirror: Increased the base healing from 4,299 to 5,195.
• Phantasmal Disenchanter: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.
• Mass Invisibility: Reduced the cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds in PvP only.
• Furious Interruption: Reduced the internal cooldown from 3 seconds to 1 second. Increased the quickness duration from 3 seconds to 4 seconds in PvE and from 2 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP and WvW.

Mirage

• Ether Barrage: The conditions inflicted by this skill are no longer random. This skill will apply 3 stacks of torment and 2 stacks of confusion per use. Increased the torment and confusion durations from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
• Mirage Advance: This skill now dazes enemies that it strikes.

Necromancer

Transfusion has been a longtime pain point in WvW, but it has also been an exceptionally powerful tool for scourge in all game modes. Its ability to easily revive allies who are downed while out of position is something that we've been keeping an eye on for a while, and we see it as being too powerful. We still like Transfusion's ability to help revive allies, but we're removing the teleportation component to make it less of a guarantee. We've also tuned up the damage on axe in PvE and made some improvements to the core death shroud in all game modes. Reaper and harbinger both get some defensive updates that are primarily focused on slightly improving their survivability in PvP.

• Isolate: Reduced the cooldown from 18 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP only.
• Extirpate: This skill no longer inflicts Extirpation and instead inflicts weakness.
• Rending Claws: Increased the damage coefficient per hit from 0.6 to 0.7 in PvE only.
• Ghastly Claws: Increased the power coefficient per hit from 0.5 to 0.575 in PvE only.
• Unholy Feast: Increased the power coefficient from 2.0 to 2.5 in PvE only.
• Unholy Burst: Increased the power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.5 in PvE only.
• Consume Conditions: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
• Signet of the Locust: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only.
• Plague Signet: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Dark Pursuit: This skill no longer increases the cooldown of Dark Path.
• Life Transfer: Reduced the cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds. Increased the bleeding duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
• Tainted Shackles: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
• Overflowing Thirst: Increased the life force per strike from 1% to 1.5%.
• Unholy Martyr: Increased the life force per condition removed from 3% to 7% in PvP only.
• Transfusion: This trait no longer teleports downed allies to the user. This trait no longer increases the cooldown of Garish Pillar in WvW.

Reaper

• Soul Eater: The healing from this trait can now heal the player while they are using Reaper Shroud. Healing while in shroud has reduced effectiveness in PvE.
• Blighter's Boon: Increased the base healing from 103 to 133.

Harbinger

• Blight: Reduced the health percentage decrease from 1.5% to 1% in PvP only.

Ranger

Ranger is currently in a good spot in all game modes, so this update includes a few smaller changes to underused skills and traits to make them more competitive options.

• Guard: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds. Increased the might duration from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.

Soulbeast

• Moa Stance: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.
• Maul (Feline): Increased the power coefficient per hit from 0.2 to 0.7.
• Spiritual Reprieve: This skill now cleanses 2 damaging conditions in addition to its previous effects.
• Second Skin: Increased the damage reduction from 20% to 25% in PvP only.

Untamed

• Nature's Binding: This skill now inflicts defiance damage on defiant enemies when used. Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 25 seconds in PvE only.

Revenant

We've focused on improving the viability of some underperforming revenant builds in competitive modes with damage improvements to herald and main-hand sword, defensive improvements to Legendary Renegade Stance, and an increase to the outgoing healing bonuses in the Salvation trait line for potential support builds in PvP.

• Chilling Isolation: Increased the power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.7 in PvP and WvW.
• Notoriety: Increased the might stacks from 1 to 2 in PvP and WvW.
• Resolute Evasion: Increased the resolution duration from 2 seconds to 2.5 seconds. This trait now also grants a small strike damage reduction for 2.5 seconds after dodging.
• Invoking Harmony: Increased the outgoing healing bonus from 10% to 15% in PvP only.
• Serene Rejuvenation: Increased the outgoing healing bonus from 15% to 20% in PvP only.

Herald

• Shining Aspects: Increased the healing from 533 to 640.
• Forceful Persistence: Increased the damage bonus from 13% to 15% in PvP and WvW. Increased the facet damage bonus from 3% to 4% in PvP and WvW.

Renegade

• Breakrazor's Bastion: Increased the base barrier when enhanced from 1,480 to 1,960.
• Soulcleave's Summit: Increased the healing when using a Legendary Renegade skill from 929 to 1,199. Increased the life siphon healing from 392 to 489 in PvP only.

Thief

This update includes a couple of significant quality-of-life improvements for the thief's staff and scepter weapons. First, Weakening Charge will no longer have a movement component, meaning that players are free to move during its casting time. We've also changed Shadow Sap into a ground-targeted skill to give scepter-wielding thieves a way to support their team without needing to target allies. Our goal with these changes is to improve the fluidity of the weapons and make them more enjoyable to play. We've also updated Helmet Breaker to only be usable a single time before flipping back to Debilitating Arc, giving more access to the defensive evade. This is part of a set of changes targeted at improving staff's usability in competitive modes.

• Shadow Sap: This skill is now ground targeted and will fire a projectile at the target location. When the missile lands, it will strike enemies and grant barrier, might, and protection to allies. The strike no longer inflicts weakness on enemies.
• Orchestrated Assault: Reduced the damage increase from 33% to 7% in WvW and PvP.
• Harrowing Storm: Reduced the torment duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds in WvW and PvP.
• Debilitating Arc: Reduced the initiative cost from 5 to 4 in PvP and WvW.
• Helmet Breaker: This skill can no longer be used multiple times in a row. Increased the power coefficient from 0.6 to 1.1 in PvP and WvW only. Reduced the initiative cost from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW.
• Dust Strike: Increased the power coefficient per hit from 0.2 to 0.35 in PvP and WvW.
• Weakening Charge: This skill is now named Weakening Whirl. This skill no longer moves the player.
• Cluster Bomb: Increased the power coefficient from 1.45 to 2.25 in PvE only.
• Shadow Refuge: Reduced the cooldown from 48 seconds to 40 in PvP and WvW. Reduced the stealth duration per pulse from 3 to 2.5 seconds in PvP and WvW. Increased the healing from 1,775 to 2,851.
• Even the Odds: Increased the vulnerability stacks from 5 to 10.
• Sundering Shade: Increased the vulnerability stacks from 5 to 10.
• Hidden Killer: Increased the duration from 2 seconds to 4 seconds.

Specter

• Well of Sorrow: This skill now pulses conditions in a specific order. It will pulse torment, bleeding, torment, poison, and then torment.

Warrior

Similar to the upcoming change to Kinetic Accelerators for quickness-based scrappers, Heat the Soul will now also grant might to allies to give quickness-based berserkers better might coverage. We've also made some improvements to off-hand dagger and rifle and tuned up a number of underperforming skills and traits.

• Volley: Increased the power coefficient per strike from 0.75 to 0.8 in PvE only.
• Explosive Shell: Increased the power coefficient from 1.5 to 1.6 in PvE only.
•  Rifle Butt: Reduced the cooldown from 20 seconds to 15 seconds in PvE only.
• Tremor: This skill now recharges Crushing Blow if it strikes an enemy.
• Wastrel's Ruin: This skill now always inflicts its bonuses against defiant enemies. Increased the maximum number of targets from 1 to 2.
• Bladestorm: Increased the barrier per hit from 289 to 445.
• Kick: This skill now deals bonus defiance-bar damage.
• Dolyak Signet: The passive effect of this skill now grants reduced incoming damage instead of toughness.
• Signet of Stamina: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.
• "To the Limit!": Increased the endurance gain from 50 to 100 in PvE and from 65 to 100 in PvP.
• Rampage: Reduced the cooldown from 90 seconds to 60 seconds in PvE only.
• Burst Precision: Increased the bonus ferocity from 150 to 250.
• Martial Cadence: Increased the number of conditions removed from 1 to 2 in PvE and PvP.

Berserker

• Heat the Soul: This trait now applies might to allies in addition to its previous effects.

Spellbreaker

• Sun and Moon Style: This trait now heals for a percentage of all strike damage instead of only critical hit damage.

Feedback and Considerations for the Revenant/Herald

In this patch preview, they have slightly increased the healing bonus to allies (+10% overall in PvP mode). This increase in healing should be applied in every game mode. I even see potential to further increase the healing to allies by another 5% - 10%. Over the last 4-5 years, the healing potential of the Revenant has been practically halved (due to the previous build that was based on healing power, resulting in about 30% healing to allies) and has been extremely restricted overall. For example, the elite specialization Herald could once extend its boons to 10 people instead of 5. In my opinion, this made sense because this class should be strong in boons at the cost of damage. If they (ArenaNet) see the problem in the overall healing potential of the Revenant, it might also be helpful to only strengthen the Regenerative Power (boon: regeneration). I would like to play a boon-strong Herald again (which should be its exact strength) but with a justified deficit in damage output or other costs. 

I am aware that boons in WvW are a particular issue. However, there should simply be classes that can and are allowed to distribute boons at the cost of certain traits, and there should be other classes that cannot do this well but have other strengths. In my opinion, many classes are becoming similar in that they can do a bit of everything. I would like to see “a bit” more uniqueness in the classes again.

I have been playing GW2 for 12 years and have experienced many patches. At the moment, I feel that the classes are no longer very unique to each other (primarily the Revenant) and are becoming too similar (especially when it comes to boon distribution, and yes, I know that was once the plan to make each class useful in certain modes and allow them to participate - I experienced that time as well). Whether I jump into the air (Vindicator) or not, it doesn’t make a difference anymore.

[Malus.2184]

14 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Longbow doesn't work in zerg. Projectiles don't exist and 5 needs you to stop moving and even then the damage spread kills it.

It does have a use. You have one Ranger in Berserker gear, it used to be a Soulbeast, and then you use 2 to snipe people. I used to run with a group who used that to great effect when the opponent started commander sniping.

[Cageman.6157]

One thing that would be nice to see in later patches or this one, is for "Hundred Blades" (Warrior greatsword second skill) to get mobility. Similar to how "Zealot's Defense" on guardian got mobility. Even with the dmg buff, in pvp the skill still rarely lands the final hit even with quickness and bull's rush landing, but also the skill provides no utility, and has a very length channel time even with quickness. I don't think greatsword needs anymore dmg, but it would be very nice to see this skill have either utility or mobility. "Kill Shot" could also use a similar treatment. The skill does dmg, but it also is plagued by intense channel times, just a small tweak to it, or even allowing mobility would be nice so you don't have to sit in your target's full rotation, or lower your overall dps. The gameplay of gw2 pvp has evolved to a very mobile, and fast paced gameplay. Most classes have builds that can kill in 5 skills or less, and having skills like these are a hinderance to builds, and work against trait synergy, and dmg rotations. It is for this reason that staff gets chosen over greatsword now. Staff offers same mobility, but offers cc for better synergy with traits/or class mechs, as well as a lot of utility. Even spear having 2 cc skills, and 2 evasion skills plays into warrior mechanics well. However, "Hundred Blades" and "Kill Shot" are 2 skills that are outdated, out performed, and work against the class dynamics, making a person have to build for the skill for peak performance rather than the other way around. 

[Malus.2184]

12 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Being killed by power ganker is more unfun.

At least with cele you have some time to react and can see some counterplay. 😉

"...AnD cAn SeE sOmE cOuNtErPlAy." If they're halfway decent, then the counterplay consists of prolonging your death in the hopes that someone who can help you comes along. So exciting /s

The reality is that against a Cele you're going to run out of defences while their cooldown allows them to recycle offensive tools. The time you have to inflict damage on them is vastly reduced due to the Concentration. To use a hyperbolic example, if they can apply Protection to themselves that lasts two seconds and has a four-second cooldown then with 100% Concentration they can hypothetically have 100% uptime on Protection. This makes any healing practically 33% more effective against Strike damage since the damage of that is reduced by 33%. They also get +Healing from it while also getting good defence in the form of Toughness and Vitality.

That's only THREE of the stats Cele provides.

[Malus.2184]

14 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Bro thinks getting instagibbed by power roamers is fun 💀

It's a lot more fun than getting into a drawn-out brawl against them that'll end with you dying slowly from a thousand cuts because then at least you can respawn immediately and go again. Fought 2 v 1 against a Cele Thief as they used constant Stealth and Teleports. When we had an opportunity to hit them they took too little damage to scare them off due to the defensive stats of Celestial while also having decent offensive stats. Took over ten minutes for both of us to die. It was a colossal waste of time and I can guarantee you that it was unfun.

[iDominatedU.8751]

On 9/13/2024 at 3:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

Necromancer

Transfusion has been a longtime pain point in WvW, but it has also been an exceptionally powerful tool for scourge in all game modes. Its ability to easily revive allies who are downed while out of position is something that we've been keeping an eye on for a while, and we see it as being too powerful. We still like Transfusion's ability to help revive allies, but we're removing the teleportation component to make it less of a guarantee.

• Transfusion: This trait no longer teleports downed allies to the user. This trait no longer increases the cooldown of Garish Pillar in WvW.

I would like to urge that you reconsider this option.
The outright removal of unique features or abilities that individual classes excel at, is an awful way to go about balancing how effective those classes are at certain things, especially without reasonable readjusting or a replacement being given.

I would like to suggest that instead of removing that unique capability of Necromancer's Transfusion trait, that you try some of these different options:

1. Possibly the most preferred alternative to this change is to simply have the skill F4's cooldown be increased by a percentage per person pulled, similar to how Scrapper's Function Gyro functions at the moment. (pun not intended)
2. Also similarly to how Scrapper's Function Gyro operates, you could instead reduce the amount of players pulled by Transfusion to 3 total.
3. Alternatively, give the trait an internal cooldown, specifically, the pull capability itself, to separate from increasing the cooldown of the skill F4 instead.
4. The revive potential is already not massively significant, so reducing it further wouldn't be as devastating as simply removing the pull capability entirely, this is probably a last resort really, but since the pull itself is more valuable as a unique trait to players, removing the revive percentage entirely could be an alternative as well, though probably less preferred, but it is still better than removing the entire pull mechanic.

To be clear, I am against the removal of unique trait features or abilities entirely without compensation that returns an equally unique mechanic to the class. Any combination of the above would be preferred to the outright removal of Transfusion's pull mechanic, as it's one of those things that have been with the class for so long that it has defined it across the game and its community. Removing it now would be a foul decision in my honest opinion, and I'm sure many people can agree. Please reconsider.

That being said, I am also unsure as to the reasoning for why the entire mechanic of the skill Extirpate is also being removed? Yet another case in removal of a unique feature without considering readjustments first or equal compensation (example; have it corrupt a boon instead), please consider alternatives, the current method is unreasonable.

[Malus.2184]

5 minutes ago, iDominatedU.8751 said:

I would like to urge that you reconsider this option.
The outright removal of unique features or abilities that individual classes excel at, is an awful way to go about balancing how effective those classes are at certain things, especially without reasonable readjusting or a replacement being given.

The irony here is palpable. You want a CLASS feature to be given as a TRAIT option. Get real. It's a trait only, you have a choice of taking it, it should never have been a class-defining feature since you have three OPTIONS in that line. Anything optional should never be a class-defining feature. Yes, the Boon-Copy on Shift Signet should be moved to Mechanical Genius since a class-defining feature is on an OPTIONAL thing.

[tyler.1653]

Really not a fan of the direction "balance" changes have been moving in. It's gone from small balance changes to borderline reworks on how classes are traditionally played, and the core issues are still just as present as ever. Boonballs will reign over boonstrip, and small group/ roaming/ newer wvw players will get to deal with these changes most. We need balance changes, not constant reworks to the overall combat style of the game. Need to go back to before firebrand was destroyed, it's obvious someone who played a lot of pvp thief is the balance lead right now.

[Malus.2184]

4 minutes ago, tyler.1653 said:

Boonballs will reign over boonstrip

That's because Boons are busted. Losing a Boon is a majorly crippling. If Boons meant less then losing Boons would just be a minor annoyance. As it should be.

[aymnad.9023]

Ele :  General buffs are fine but the cd reduction are scarier than any coefficient increase (maybe too much). 

Tempest : Stab on elite is great! A bit counter intuitive as you are meant to use it before a big hit but more stab is going to help support tempest in every game mode anyway. The 2 additional cleanse are nice but I am more scared of what it brings to a duelist rather than a support who already has a tons of them.

Cata : The quickness buff sounds great to keep the boons up longer. I will need to check if this is a gameplay I enjoy or not.

 

Engie : Utility goggles are going to be so overloaded and stronger than some traited utilities on other professions. I think this is going to become a case of buff after buff until a build uses it to break something. Energy amplifier giving power is strange. Maybe the goal is to open the way for a duelist build? It could be interesting to see a new variant for engie in PvP

 

Guard : Too much cd reduction on axe 2 when it can be a cc. The rest is a mixt of good changes on less used skills (like mace and the elite) and an overload of protection that guard already gives.

Dh : Mixt feelings. It is not used that much but I think there are some annoying bunker builds that already play it + there is the relic of defender.

 

Necro : I expected the spear boon negation to not last as it happened to spellbreaker before.

Transfusion : I see why it gets removed even if this was fun… I used it a lot on hybrid scourge (even a dps with blood magic) to make sure the group would be able to keep going. If you really want to remove it I think you should increase the effects of the healing / rez on scourge. Maybe like the gyro have a drawback for each rez (and not for each heal if possible), maybe make the F4 on scourge give stab or something (if the cd is increased because a 15s cd without alac is short). Unlike most people I think scourge will still be a good support / healer but it will lose a lot of appeal.

Harbringer : Please do not make it easier for harbringer to sustain when there is still the barrier spamming build around!

 

Ranger : not much. No plan for druid heal in pvp 😞

Soulbeast : Bringing some aoe support is a really good change (imo). Strange how we are slowly going back to the original slb.

 

Rev : More outgoing healing sounds good. I have seen heal vindi do some really good stuff in ranked and it was even played in Mat a few months ago. Differentiating self and outgoing healing is a good thing.

 

Thief : Buffs to scepter is cool! Axe reduction also is since this playstyle is just…not fun to fight

 

War : Tremor is a really really strong cc. Giving a reset is awesome but you probably should decrease the duration. I see a lot of buffs to push a support / hybrid war that will be really good (maybe too strong in some cases)

Edited Sunday at 09:56 AM by aymnad.9023

[Fenella.2634]

Transfusion used to pull 10 people, it has already been heavily nerfed to just 5. It's not a "guarantee" either. If the scourge gets the timing or their positioning wrong, they can easily pull the other players from one puddle of doom to another. In PvE and sPvP it's a fun trait that sometimes, under certain circumstances, makes for fun gameplay and lets you save some allies. In most cases even now, heal scourge is not the best choice to even consider bringing as a healer.

I don't know what is going on in WvW, but I doubt it's bad enough to justify deleting a GM trait with practically no replacement. The tiny amount of healing that'll be left is ridiculous.

Epidemic gameplay is gone, transfusion will be gone.... Can we keep some class-specific flavor maybe?

[Malus.2184]

51 minutes ago, Fenella.2634 said:

I don't know what is going on in WvW, but I doubt it's bad enough to justify deleting a GM trait with practically no replacement. The tiny amount of healing that'll be left is ridiculous.

It absolutely is. The difference between organised PvP and organised WvW is that people run around in one clump. There's little AoE placed randomly around the world so, Transfusion is disgustingly effective and gives a sickengly level of sustain.

The problem is that Transfusion is valuable enough to be an Elite Spec feature rather than a simple GM trait that everyone can take. The other options for something similar to this require the use of a valuable Utility Skill slot. Transfusion is a Trait keyed to a Base Class feature. Make Transfusion into a Utility Skill so it's equal to the other options. There's nothing you have to exclude to get it. It's on top of everything else.

Edited Sunday at 10:51 AM by Malus.2184

[Steven.9165]

As a support enjoyer may I offer a few suggestions... (only PVE oriented but with balance thoughts towards WvW/PVP included):

- Ele: Wonderful changes this patch! Please continue like this!

• Tempest still needs their GM Traits Lucid Singularity & Elemental Bastion merged. Please make it happen. There is no need to delay that any further.
• Cata: that was a most needed change. Maybe even make the energy regen slowly on its own while Sphere Specialist is taken to make boon uptime during phases possible (similar to Druid passive recharge of Astral force)

- Guardian: very good changes - nothing to add.

• HDF: Direction is perfect; please continue (maybe overthink how quick can be provided; it has so many sources that it is harder for newer players to learn it)
• Willbender: the heal build is still a bit starved for some boons (think protection). Maybe think about adding more to the F2/F3 skills

- Mesmer: nice changes overall.

• Chrono: pretty good - needs not much anymore (maybe a good way to upkeep boons in downtime phases)
• Mirage: please rework the spec completely. As it is right now there is no reason to play Mirage over Chrono

- Necromancer: oh boy...the transfusion issue is obvious and I understand why you need to change it, but I do not like what you are doing here. Dont misunderstand me please - it is very game breaking now (on an 8 sec cooldown!) and it should be balanced but NOT by removing it entirely because it is part of the character identity...

• Scourge: I would propose what Muk actually said in his review; add a debuff to all allies that were pulled by Transfusion so that they cannot be pulled again for like 120 seconds. That would not remove the feature but make it more controllable. Maybe tweak the duration of the debuff in the different game modes.
  IF you decide to remove it, it will pretty much kill HSC as a viable healer in PVE. Its strong barrier and rev potential is its greatest strengths but it still has many, many flaws. Its boon generation & pure healing is mediocre at best and it has no reliable stabi source. Then you need to give it a major strength back or it will really fall behind. Just leaving rez modifiers on the F4 is not enough - even if you buff it back to previous levels before it got Alac. I understand you cannot really make the cooldown of F4 longer without compromising one of his only 3 heal sources. That would hurt him too.
  Please overthink this change - change it, but dont remove it entirely. People will not like it at all - if you remove it, buff it in other places with this patch so it stays a viable option and please dont let people wait for a fix with the next balance patch ^^
• Harbinger: still no viable healer. Especially not if you remove the Transfusion flexibility.

- Ranger: nice minor changes overall.

• Druid: please make it possible so that entering Celestial Avatar is always possible - not only when Astral force is at 100%. That would give the build the flexibility back that it had previously to attaching Alac to the Celestial Avatar skills.
• Untamed: still needs a stability source pls. Maybe put in on a pet skill?

- Revenant: good changes overall.

• Herald is in a pretty good spot right now. The power qdps and especially dps variant needs more love. Would propose to increase the dmg modifiers on Forceful Persistence even more so it could at least go over 40k (below is just too useless at the moment)
• Renegade: the heal build needs a reliable regen source or it never will be viable. Please add it to f.e. Orders from Above or Heroic Command.

- Thief: good changes with a good thought but please be careful...

• Specter: its a very strong buff to make shadow sap a spammable aoe ability. BUT to change the 2 key without touching the 3 key on scepter too will make heal specter even more difficult to play...
  As the elite spec is designed it will always require you to target the enemy for Siphon and then your ally for buffing them up. You EITHER need to make the interface to target allies and enemies more easy to use OR change all allied buff effects to AOE effects.
  You correctly identified the issue with shadow sap that specter is lacking protection duration. THAT is also the reason why currently heal specters constantly spam blinding powder (they also do it for the barrier - true, but also for protection uptime). To constantly deactivate the autoattacks of your allies is pretty horrendous and the dps will never like that. I try to use the blinding powder only for emergencies to overbuff the barrier on an ally in dire need with the ambush attack. Then the stealth is only once in a while and not constant but I am constantly lacking in prot uptime.
  But if you make the scepter 2 an aoe skill without touching the others you will make the class EVEN harder to play than they are now...
  Right now heal specters use key binds to set & select personal target and select enemy target. Before the fight we shroud the ally we want as the boon deliverer (mostly the boon dps in our group). In fight we use siphon on the enemy then switch back to the shrouded (and also set as personal) target and use the 3, 2 and autoattack on him/her. Especially the 3 requires good timing because otherwise it will be cancelled which will result in a drop in regen uptime. (And of course always to into shroud for spamming the 1 & 2 keys for alac uptime). Then target enemy again for siphon and retarget ally. If you make the 2 an AOE skill alone we need to concentrate on that too. Please be mindful of that.
  If you decide to stick with allied targeting maybe remove the effectiveness decrease for allies on ally target skills entirely.
  Additionally Heal specter is the ONLY healer lacking an aegis source. Maybe put it on the 3 or 5 in shroud.
  Btw Shadow portal should be able to be entered via either entrance and not only one way. Like this its not really useable in instanced content.
• Deadeye: you may want to think about making this build also get a heal spec. With scepter its maybe possible but the other thief skills require more love.

- Warrior: nothing to add here - good changes in my opinion.

• Heal Bersi: would need a way to upkeep its boons during downtime phases.
• Heal Bladesworn: a different way to give alac would be appreciated. Right now the build forces one to stay in bladesaber for quite a while before staff can be used again.
  But its at least playable compared to Heal harbinger or deadeye 🙂

Thank you for all your good work and hopefully you can have a look at these suggestions. 
I am really grateful with your work - balance made a huge step into the right direction since you 3 are working on it ❤️ 

 

[Triptaminas.4789]

1 hour ago, Fenella.2634 said:

I don't know what is going on in WvW, but I doubt it's bad

If u only knew how bad things really are 

[Nelumbo.4123]

Please don't nerf Scourge in PvE, save your changes for WvW and/or PvP.

Loved the idea of 2 min debuff for rezzed players mentioned in some comments.

[sweetmesquite.5024]

On 9/14/2024 at 5:34 AM, Joie.6084 said:

Transfusion has been a longtime pain point in WvW, but it has also been an exceptionally powerful tool for scourge in all game modes. Its ability to easily revive allies who are downed while out of position is something that we've been keeping an eye on for a while, and we see it as being too powerful. We still like Transfusion's ability to help revive allies, but we're removing the teleportation component to make it less of a guarantee.

I've already made my thoughts known about this change, but I'd like to highlight one thing in particular: TRANSFUSION DOES NOT HAVE A GUARANTEED OUTCOME.

It is very much possible for an inexperienced or inattentive healscourge to pull downs into a worse spot. Or, you can pull someone out of bad, only to then have another mechanic dropped atop you in a previously-safe area. Using transfusion properly to get the desired outcome requires knowledge of a fight, good spatial awareness, and good timing. Don't misrepresent it as a foregone conclusion that every transfusion downpull results in pickups.

[meerfunkuhtron.9725]

On 9/13/2024 at 3:28 PM, Chazara.9075 said:

I forgot to mention this in my earlier post because it was focused around just Transfusion

Where are the spear nerfs? Its not even a secret most of the weapons are pretty busted, you had to hotfix revanant because it was doing way too much damage but y'all failed to even mention WvW and PvP where it can literally one shots players with a single skill on certain classes and need no outward buffs to effect it not even to mention a fully booned player using it. Its pretty disgusting just how OP spear is on /almost/ every class in competitive modes. (Warrior, Mesmer and Guardian especially)

YOU KNOW ITS AN ISSUE AND REFUSE TO ADDRESS IT

I highly recommend you either push this balance patch back another week or two and put nerfs to spears that actually need them (cuz why did you nerf necro spear when its not any where close to the extreme easy and broken potential of mesmer and thats just one comment) leaving the PvP and WvW gamespace so much worse off in general because you want people to actually play the weapon.

With Mesmer spear: It is a power weapon. Power Mesmers tend to have low survivability (Virtuoso *might* be an exception, but it's only about as defensive as many other classes out there with similar builds). And therein lies the reason for Mesmer power builds to have access to bursty damage. I'm not saying the thing needs to be able to one-shot someone with a press of a button (which it isn't doing either). I can literally hit things as hard with my Ranger's axe/warhorn combo, something I don't need to do anything else with but press buttons, and that's already on a formidable and easy build despite it not being geared for tankiness. And I KNOW that's not the only class or build that's like that either.

If they tune Mesmer spear's damage down with the trade-off for more utility and survivability? I'd be f'ing happy with that. If you just nerf the damage, then what are you leaving an actually glassy build that you're requiring to be up close to its opponents? That one second evade that might heal ok is not enough to justify sitting on the weapon when everyone has as much damage potential, if not more, while also being far more defensive.

Let's look at what these weapons are actually doing for the class before calling nerfs on them, because these classes are not built equal.

On 9/13/2024 at 3:28 PM, Chazara.9075 said:

Balance it and let it either be used because its /slightly/ better than other options or nerf it to be perfectly in line with others and then give it some trait interactions that actually make it worth using on SPECIFIED builds and not every build in the game (buff ranger spear just a little)

Honestly, I feel that Ranger spear feels fine overall, though I'm still getting used to it. The main issue with its stealth mechanic was helped a lot by the change to reveal that they launched it with, but again, it still feels odd to use.

But I think there's a reason they made spear the way that it is, and I'm pretty sure it's because these new weapons are essentially taking the place of elite specs. Not that I agree with it or even like it (I'd much rather have seen a full spec out of them, as they feel a bit out of place), but making them work with the whole class in general would match what I believe they intended it for. I personally would have liked it better if the weapons interacted with their respective classes in a much closer way. Instead of a completely new mechanic, we instead introduce a new effect for existing class mechanics. But perhaps that would be harder to balance, Idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[meerfunkuhtron.9725]

31 minutes ago, Steven.9165 said:

Mesmer: nice changes overall.

• Chrono: pretty good - needs not much anymore (maybe a good way to upkeep boons in downtime phases)
• Mirage: please rework the spec completely. As it is right now there is no reason to play Mirage over Chrono

I'm interested why you think this way. Is this in regards to PVE or PVP/WVW?
Personally, I've found that Mirage is performing better than Chrono is overall, both in PVE and WVW. At least within the DPS side of things (I don't do support so I never touched that side of Mesmer). I've found that I can survive easier with Mirage due to its cloak, while Chrono still only gets to use what's available to core Mesmer outside of CS, which you won't want to rely on for defense anyway due to its cooldown.
So yeah, just wondering what your thoughts are.

[Malus.2184]

51 minutes ago, Nelumbo.4123 said:

Please don't nerf Scourge in PvE, save your changes for WvW and/or PvP.

Loved the idea of 2 min debuff for rezzed players mentioned in some comments.

The result of that would be that in a 10-minute fight, you'd be able to mess up without consequences four times, which is still four times too many.

[Fashion Mage.3712]

Lol trying in vain to make Signet of Courage not kitten after they made it even more kitten than before (after they made it even more kitten by changing it from a tome to a signet).