October 8 Balance Update Preview

[multiwickingerhabich.9867]

Killing the necromancer the way you plan to is a no-go, that won't work at all if you want to annoy a class, annoy the Messmar that you love so much, annoy him until he dies, but not the necro, that's a no-go.

Edited Monday at 08:29 PM by multiwickingerhabich.9867

[Shade.8037]

51 minutes ago, Hikaru.6704 said:

It is their identity ! 

Not because others can't do it too, but because they are known for it !

Would you as a mesmer agree to the remove of something they are known for since the beggining of the game, and is because of that, part of their identity ?

So yes same for scourge, transfusion, is a decade old, we know they can do it, they aren't the only ones that can rez or can tp people (remember that now the rifle of mesmer can do it once and by the player), but the only one that can do it combine, and for years at that. Even before the heal exist on scourge, it was use as a dps transfusion. So yes it is their identity now !

You're talking to players that love their classes or even all of them. So please stop being something i won't event put a name on, because it would be rude of me, thank you.

Or yes, if you want to go that way, then tell them to update in taking back the heal, not the transfusion then. They didn't have it before and only had it for a year, so not part of their identity at all, we won't say hscrg anymore, just scrg again. That i would agree, but the transfusioon is a no no no no, it's the necro thing.

Have a nice evening either way.

Thank you. I feel like there are so many other ways to do this, nerfs, tweaks, OPTIONS. But instead we just have an iconic element of the Hscrg just removed utterly. 

Frankly i'd be fine if we just outright didn't have a heal, outside of may be regen. Just let us barrier, regen and res when that isn't enough. At least that is on brand with a necromancer. This just feels like PvE heal scourge is being sacrificed on the alter of wvw, and all the people defending the pve change seem to be doing so out of some weird glee to see 'those who don't DESERVE them' stop getting kills and, seemingly, be pushed out of PvE altogether.

Calling it now, every single person in here salivating at people having to 'git gud finally' will kick anyone who messes up on mechanics and make it all that harder for the scene to grow. So much for wing 8 bringing in new players.

[Nero.7369]

Huray cele nerf. finally.
Next step: nerf heal + tank gear like ministel
Step after: (perma) invis nerf, give it the ranger spear invis treatment, each weapon skill will reveal the castere on starting the animation.
Step after: remove all those stacking multiple damage reduction modifier evade skill while dealing damage and tons of blocks. and nerf willbender cleave with nerfing power coefficient on whirling light and crushing courage.  (Guard main here themself lol)

Maybe we can see some more healthy and less non-interactive gameplay in wvw again.
Sick of this [healers that are tanks, condi facetank, healball, spamming skill/evade/block without brain and "1shot" in less then 2 sec] bs.  Find a good stable middle line, please.

Edited Tuesday at 03:06 PM by Nero.7369

[Hikaru.6704]

12 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

Thank you. I feel like there are so many other ways to do this, nerfs, tweaks, OPTIONS. But instead we just have an iconic element of the Hscrg just removed utterly.

I do agree, there are so much other options, that it fills like a lazy way to do it. And they don't know their players at all. How on earth could they have thought we would agree to this ?

12 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

Frankly i'd be fine if we just outright didn't have a heal, outside of may be regen. Just let us barrier, regen and res when that isn't enough. At least that is on brand with a necromancer.

I like that we have heal, i'm not against it at all, i play it to help new comers to learn myself, and the barrier was there before just stronger. But choosing and talking about identity, transfusion feels more like a part of it than the heal ^^

12 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

Calling it now, every single person in here salivating at people having to 'git gud finally' will kick anyone who messes up on mechanics and make it all that harder for the scene to grow. So much for wing 8 bringing in new players.

I'm afraid of that too. 😉

Edited Monday at 09:16 PM by Hikaru.6704

[H K.4057]

2 hours ago, Camniel.7238 said:

I probably do fit into the "very bad" category in WvW but I do have something against this line. I've often been killed by Power Chronos in less than 3 seconds, through full Reaper Shroud and through 27k health within those 3 seconds. And this is not an exaggeration, there was not even enough time to actually activate more than 1 or 2 skills before I was dead, as a fully shrouded Reaper even.

Yes, I know I'm not a good player in WvW, but that was beyond ridiculous, and it happened enough times that I ended up just quitting the game mode entirely. So, I just needed to point out that the "almost never" is a bit more frequent than that. 

If burst is that ridiculous, how do thieves survive? Even non-memey thieves stacking Marauder gear have less than 20k health. We should be seeing dead thieves everywhere instead of hearing the continuous complaints about thief stealth and mobility. I posit the following:

1. The burst is, in fact, not ridiculous. A decent player can avoid these kinds of all-in bursts with well timed defensive cooldowns, or simply position in a way that the burst never comes at all.

2. Solo roaming is not and should not be for everyone. New players should be gently herded towards tags and guilds where they can learn the game mode in the relatively safety of others.

3. It's ok to die unexpectedly. I've been solo roaming since headstart, and I still sometimes get caught out by "ridiculous" burst. But, and this is a huge but, it's always because I was not paying enough attention, or because I positioned poorly, or because I did not use the correct defensive cooldown.

To go back on topic, cele gear does not magically give you more awareness or good positioning. While you are less likely to die suddenly to "ridiculous burst" from a single roamer, the complaints predictably shift to "cowards" who disengage constantly, to "gankers" who always kill you 2v1, to "zergs" that run you over because you weren't paying attention. The issue with WvW for new and inexperienced players isn't one of balance. The default play style for someone completely new to WvW is solo roaming, and yet solo roaming is the most cutthroat way to play the game. No amount of "balance" will allow a new player to thrive or even have fun while solo roaming. Instead of focusing on a hypothetical perfect balance, we should be focusing on a way to funnel new and inexperienced players towards tags and guilds so they can learn WvW at their own pace without getting burnt out.

[Captain Crapface.7528]

On 9/13/2024 at 9:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

This trait now also allows the catalyst to gain energy while a jade sphere is deployed.

Its official now, Cata has better Adrenaline mechanic than Warrior ever will.

[Titan.7853]

11 minutes ago, H K.4057 said:

If burst is that ridiculous, how do thieves survive? Even non-memey thieves stacking Marauder gear have less than 20k health. We should be seeing dead thieves everywhere instead of hearing the continuous complaints about thief stealth and mobility. I posit the following:

1. The burst is, in fact, not ridiculous. A decent player can avoid these kinds of all-in bursts with well timed defensive cooldowns, or simply position in a way that the burst never comes at all.

2. Solo roaming is not and should not be for everyone. New players should be gently herded towards tags and guilds where they can learn the game mode in the relatively safety of others.

3. It's ok to die unexpectedly. I've been solo roaming since headstart, and I still sometimes get caught out by "ridiculous" burst. But, and this is a huge but, it's always because I was not paying enough attention, or because I positioned poorly, or because I did not use the correct defensive cooldown.

To go back on topic, cele gear does not magically give you more awareness or good positioning. While you are less likely to die suddenly to "ridiculous burst" from a single roamer, the complaints predictably shift to "cowards" who disengage constantly, to "gankers" who always kill you 2v1, to "zergs" that run you over because you weren't paying attention. The issue with WvW for new and inexperienced players isn't one of balance. The default play style for someone completely new to WvW is solo roaming, and yet solo roaming is the most cutthroat way to play the game. No amount of "balance" will allow a new player to thrive or even have fun while solo roaming. Instead of focusing on a hypothetical perfect balance, we should be focusing on a way to funnel new and inexperienced players towards tags and guilds so they can learn WvW at their own pace without getting burnt out.

I propose that new players to WvW have get a special protection, like a light halo above them, that exists and everyone can see.  They cannot use their offensive skills or do damage without other players on their team around them (within a very large radius), and likewise they cannot take damage by enemy players when alone.  This would really help ease new people into the game mode.  They even appear on the map as a separate color dot.  This special protection goes away when they earn their Warclaw - or they can optionally turn it off earlier.

Remember, WvW is like ranked PvP where all skill levels from bronze to platinum play together - including the newbies.  This would give new players the time to learn the game mode, without getting brutalized and harvested.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

6 minutes ago, Titan.7853 said:

I propose that new players to WvW have get a special protection, like a light halo above them, that exists and everyone can see.  They cannot use their offensive skills or do damage without other players on their team around them (within a very large radius), and likewise they cannot take damage by enemy players when alone.  This would really help ease new people into the game mode.  They even appear on the map as a separate color dot.  This special protection goes away when they earn their Warclaw - or they can optionally turn it off earlier.

Remember, WvW is like ranked PvP where all skill levels from bronze to platinum play together - including the newbies.  This would give new players the time to learn the game mode, without getting brutalized and harvested.

No. Meaning all mesmers or thieves would have to do is stand alone and free portal people in at no risk due to this buff. Scouts would be twinks and never die...no

Just no

[Titan.7853]

9 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

No. Meaning all mesmers or thieves would have to do is stand alone and free portal people in at no risk due to this buff. Scouts would be twinks and never die...no

Just no

New player would be account wide, but you're probably right.

[Baby Cakes.1539]

 Transfusion. There goes one of the things that makes our class unique and more useful. I expect nothing less. Nothing left that any other class can't provide or do better. Thanks.

 

 

[LilBiM.3581]

10 hours ago, willow.8209 said:

disagree for two reasons:

1. Power is burst damage: you might sometimes overwhelm and defeat your opponent before ever needing sustain. 
Condi on the other hand is damage over time: no matter how much damage you can do you will always need sustain. 

2. power has two clear damage augment stats: precision and ferocity  
condi needs expertise and sometimes also precision and/or power in order to reach full potential. one clear and two additional unclear augment stats. So for many builds, trailblazer is giving up damage utility to have so much sustain.
While marauder has somewhat reduced damage stats compared with berzerker (to make room for sustain), it doesn't lose any potentially-needed damage stats altogether.

My thoughts on Celestial are in many other posts: TL'DR This particular suggested change to celestial is a terrible move that won't fix anything, but will cause significant issues for disabled players in wvw, condi players in wvw, and players that want to try out several things without needing a new gear/template for everything they try. While additionally being unnecessarily confusing and complex (which again causes issues for disabled players). 

And I disgree for the reason that POWER is infact 3 stats to burst people down. You can theoretically have low power, high precision and ferocity and perform very poor DPS. The main challenge Trailblazers is that you only require to commit to two stats to do full damage over time. In WvW you can have your healing power for sustain, precision for those builds that might need it for conditions and then you can blend it with Dire stats gear to build your toughness and health.

You can run your stacked condition build but you're not going to have a one stop shop for all the stats that you need to be effective AND become hard to kill. I don't think that it's reasonable for one gear set to offer you ~3400 armor, extra 7k hp and all the condition dmg and expertise that you need to be effective. Just like the Celestial boys will have to learn to mix things up, just as the power boys have learnt to mix things up, just as well should the condi bros learn to mix it up to survive.

It should be noted that I am not taking away opportunities to sustain but I'm sure that there is a mixture that can land you on some middle ground that isn't toxic to play against.

[Caitmonster.9036]

I feel that mesmer portals trivialize jumping puzzles. If you need mesmer training wheels to do a JP, that's a skill issue bud. Just learn to press spacebar properly.

Oh, what? There were mesmers that enjoyed portals for the simple pleasure of being helpful, porting people for daily/weekly jps? Portal runs through Chalice of Tears? Ah, well, sucks to be them I guess. Better roll a new class or something. We can't have mesmer be too unique 'cause I'm sure someone's whining about it somewhere.

/s

Edited Monday at 11:10 PM by Caitmonster.9036

[reapex.8546]

12 minutes ago, Caitmonster.9036 said:

I feel that mesmer portals trivialize jumping puzzles. If you need mesmer training wheels to do a JP, that's a skill issue bud. Just learn to press spacebar properly.

Oh, what? There were mesmers that enjoyed portals for the simple pleasure of being helpful, porting people for daily/weekly jps? Portal runs through Chalice of Tears? Ah, well, sucks to be them I guess. Better roll a new class or something. We can't have mesmer be too unique 'cause I'm sure someone's whining about it somewhere.

/s

It's amazing how much this logic can be applied to Heal Scourge:
Anet, "Heal Scourge is helping people out too much, let's nerf it."
Anet, "Mesmer Portals helping out too much by allowing people to ENTIRELY skip content ? Nerf it."

Note: These are not quotes by ArenaNet, just a parody imitation. 

The reaction from players if Anet stopped us from using portals on CM Harvest Temple and CM Temple of Febe would be swift.

Edited Monday at 11:18 PM by reapex.8546

[Jaqles.4085]

Thanks for ruining Necros to the nth degree! It's just beyond depressing. Been maining Necro since April 6th, 2015. That's been 9 years 5 months ago, and in the past year+ the class keeps getting beaten down. We're no longer Necros, we're just...Nerf fodder. 10.5k+ hours, and you've absolutely murdered everything that made GW2 Necros stand out from the rest. So, thanks I guess? T_T

[willow.8209]

@H K.4057

 So you're ok with being about to counter DOT with cleanse, but not ok with being able to counter burst dmg with toughness.

@LilBiM.3581 

You need to have more than 1 healing skill to make healing useful for sustain, which not all builds have. So yes, your suggestion would seem to be to nerf sustain in many cases. Also, same as above PLUS burst can have vitality and DOT can't. 

Noted.

Edited Tuesday at 02:04 AM by willow.8209

[Tofu.1865]

Engineer Pistol 2 Poison Dart Volley projectile finisher when?? and also bomb kit overhaul when??

[Quirin.1076]

These balance patches do not make any sense

Simply add boon strip into the game for all classes

Edited Tuesday at 12:45 AM by Quirin.1076

[coro.3176]

17 minutes ago, Tofu.1865 said:

Engineer Pistol 2 Poison Dart Volley projectile finisher when?? and also bomb kit overhaul when??

Static shot could really use a daze on its first hit too, given how many game mechanics are built around "disable", and P/P doesn't have any hard CC.

[sub.4960]

As a thief main (in-game and irl) I am so h*ckin happy about the cele nerf. I am going to pwn so many noobs in EBG now and I will it will feel exactly like I'm Naruto from the anime Naruto ! Thank you Arena com

[Harbinger Of Ducks.9183]

3 hours ago, Jaqles.4085 said:

Thanks for ruining Necros to the nth degree! It's just beyond depressing. Been maining Necro since April 6th, 2015. That's been 9 years 5 months ago, and in the past year+ the class keeps getting beaten down. We're no longer Necros, we're just...Nerf fodder. 10.5k+ hours, and you've absolutely murdered everything that made GW2 Necros stand out from the rest. So, thanks I guess? T_T

I mostly agree but.....you've gotta be fair here, its not necro as a whole thats nothing but nerf fodder its scourge. Reaper and Harb have actually been pretty routinely graced with minor buffs and its put them in much better places overall as much as I think Harb is and has always been a boring glass cannon that basically every other class can do everything better than while being more fun to play. Reaper is probably the strongest it has ever been even, certainly the strongest in the 5 years that I have been playing. This patch is still continuing that trend of gradually making reapers stronger except theres one key difference from the previous small buffs to reaper.....this time it is sacrificing build variety to do it. The axe buffs will put the axe damage far enough above main hand sword that there will no longer be any good reason to use it outside of wvw except for mobility that only harbinger should ever need bad enough to sacrifice all that damage and some ranged cleave which again outside of wvw only harbinger should ever have any need enough to pick over the increased damage of axe while the spear change proposed will make the brand new and very fun spear we literally just got a month ago an irredeemably weaker greatsword ensuring that there is no longer a good reason to use it for any spec. We get pretty minor buffs for all that build variety we had just gotten down the toilet 😐 Honestly its not even like the necro spear needs that boon block to function as a good greatsword alternative but weakness is not even close to an adequate replacement. Replace it with slow or something else more valuable instead, give most of the spear skills some small range increases (which if going that route the thief spear should certainly get too), rework it to be a condi weapon instead.....there are lots of options but randomly deleting a good and fun expansion weapon a month after release without even bothering to give an explanation is definitely not one of them 😞 

Edited Tuesday at 03:29 AM by Harbinger Of Ducks.9183

[anninke.7469]

10 hours ago, Camniel.7238 said:

It just occurred to me that ANet might be removing the Transfusion Pull effect not because they think it's OP, but instead because they might be trying to put that effect on a Relic to open that skill onto other classes.

I have no idea if this would be a good idea or not, but I think it's a possibility. Although, if that is the reason, they should have flat out told us this plan in the preview notes. Taking away a specific effect from a class that is accustomed to having that effect is never going to go well, doubly so if you're closed mouth about why and how you want to replace it.

This sounds totally scary and wrong if it were the true reason behind this "balance". I don't think another round of taking away what we have to let us earn it back again is what the game should be doing. EVER.

[Asur.9178]

Thief spear: 0...literally 0 changes. Forget about PvE for a second...nothing for PvP even.

What a joke. Insane levels of ignorance about the class and its issues and problems...even in 2024.

Also, when are we going to see this - from about 3 years ago at this point?

When will Trickery, Shadow Arts, and Acrobatics as traitlines be addressed?

Have you actually seen people using Pumping Up? How about Hard to Catch? What about Signets of Power? You guys always changing things, and then just abandoning them with false promises of "keeping close eye and adjusting".

When was the last time someone used Assassin's Reward or Don't Stop, over Upper Hand? The 2 traits are pitiful compared to the only good trait.

Why is Guarded Initiation literally a copy paste of Aggressive Agility, but infinitely worse? Is this a joke? Do you guys actually put in any effort to review this class?

The list goes on; I am so sick of the complete lack of proper attention to the Thief class - it's been over 12 years. Kleptomaniac along with Preparedness alone being shoehorn traits since 2012 and balancing the class assuming Thief will always and forever take Trickery in PvP is a joke at best and an insult at worst.

You want to limit thieves and stealth heavy builds (perfectly reasonable), yet you shoehorn the class into stealth for all its defense and damage payoffs. Take Michael's advise. Get rid of Shadow Arts and give the class more sustain outside of stealth and stop shoehorning and bundling everything up into stealth.

If you can't and aren't willing to step up and do the job, hire someone who will...someone who has a passion for the Thief class and actually understands it and its problems and bugs.

Edited Tuesday at 08:16 PM by Asur.9178
Added more links.

[Malus.2184]

11 hours ago, Hikaru.6704 said:

It is their identity ! 

Not because others can't do it too, but because they are known for it !

Would you as a mesmer agree to the remove of something they are known for since the beggining of the game, and is because of that, part of their identity ?

So yes same for scourge, transfusion, is a decade old, we know they can do it, they aren't the only ones that can rez or can tp people (remember that now the rifle of mesmer can do it once and by the player), but the only one that can do it combine, and for years at that. Even before the heal exist on scourge, it was use as a dps transfusion. So yes it is their identity now !

You're talking to players that love their classes or even all of them. So please stop being something i won't event put a name on, because it would be rude of me, thank you.

Or yes, if you want to go that way, then tell them to update in taking back the heal, not the transfusion then. They didn't have it before and only had it for a year, so not part of their identity at all, we won't say hscrg anymore, just scrg again. That i would agree, but the transfusioon is a no no no no, it's the necro thing.

Have a nice evening either way.

In a previous post, I suggested that transfusion could remain as it is and become a utility skill that enables the Life Force of the Necro to be transferred to the targets. The overwhelmingly negative ratio of that post shows what Necro mains really wants.

Your counter-argument is also the fallacy of an argument for tradition and taken absurdum ad reduction many things were changed for the better despite arguments of "it has always been this way." It should never have been the way (MANY mechanics in GW2 are like this) it was and Transfusion also only really became popular when the option to healScourge became a thing. Else it was only used in edge cases, like Boneskinner.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 9/13/2024 at 3:34 PM, Joie.6084 said:

General

The Celestial attribute combination has been exceptionally powerful in WvW since the addition of concentration and expertise, and it's something that we've been monitoring for some time. With this update, we're introducing the tech to adjust equipment's attribute distribution and the amount of attributes it provides on a per game–mode basis. The first use of this will be to remove both concentration and expertise from equipment with Celestial attributes in WvW only, to bring it back in line with other attributes. We'll be keeping an eye on how the tech performs and whether it needs any final touches, but, assuming everything goes well, it's something that we may use going forward to tune other attribute combinations in WvW specifically.

• Celestial equipment will no longer grant concentration or expertise while in a WvW map.

So quite often we see changes that may be .05 differences. So why is the philosophy in WvW to see such extremes changes versus the change in moderation? If its valid in WvW, should it also be in PvE and sPvP? Why use a hatchet in WvW? This leaves a bad PR experience.  

[senna.9563]

Please do not remove the teleport from scourge in PvE, it's the only reason to play heal scourge, without it, there is no reason to take that class anywhere ;-;