CELE IS GETTING NERFED

[Bleikopf.2491]

7 minutes ago, Kitiara.2706 said:

Oh wow, we needed to nerf this, because THIS is what broke WvW.  Yeh, ok.  Whatever anet... I hope you adjust the rest of the stats in response to losing two.

3 minutes ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

Even with expertise and conc cut off cele still give most stat points out of any gear in the game, like u still get more stats points than other gears.

How much more u want? 

The more different attributes a piece of equipment has, the wider spread its stats, the bigger the total stats. Marauder also has more total stats than Berzerker (almost 10%). Celestial always had the most total stats for being the widest spread.

I was trying to find some evidence for this but I can't seem to navigate the wiki properly with 2am brain: IIRC with the addition of Concentration and Expertise in HoT, they just sticked them to Celestial without changing any of the stats. They should have been spread thinner. Celestial was always overtuned for this. Now they just reverted that.

This has been a decade ago now? I don't remember if any changes to Celestial have been made since.

[Sonork.2916]

6 minutes ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

The necro spear 5 that prevents boons will be removed. Extirpate will no longer apply extirpate, not that it was extirpating well in a first place if u ask me. But yeah in general boons was adressed... by removing skill from the game that prevents boons from being applied..... AHAHAHAHAHAHA  😀 

U literally can't make this kitten up.

I imagine maybe it's because it's a weapon skill that makes other classes skills that apply boons no longer function while under the effect.  During chaotic fights it may be hard to know if you're effected by it, and locking out boons from skills effectively disables the skills in question?  I'm just guessing as to why this was changed.

[Triptaminas.4789]

8 minutes ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

The more different attributes a piece of equipment has, the wider spread its stats, the bigger the total stats. Marauder also has more total stats than Berzerker (almost 10%). Celestial always had the most total stats for being the widest spread.

I was trying to find some evidence for this but I can't seem to navigate the wiki properly with 2am brain: IIRC with the addition of Concentration and Expertise in HoT, they just sticked them to Celestial without changing any of the stats. They should have been spread thinner. Celestial was always overtuned for this. Now they just reverted that.

This has been a decade ago now? I don't remember if any changes to Celestial have been made since.

Yes u are right, 3 stats have less total points than 4 stats, and 4 less than cele. The difference between cele and 4 was bonkers tho, still kinda is. 

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

5 hours ago, Cameirus.8407 said:

and a great cry went up, every wvw willbender let loose a cry of horror and rage quit the game....

Not that many losers run full Cele on WB from what Ive observed, and there is a deeper seated design issue about WB.
The virtue buffs cannot be stripped, so if you arent a degen hyper mobile/stealth/invul/block build, the Guard will just generate more boons by whacking you, even under Weakness, which is why non-Harb Necros struggle so much against WB (for example), since they lost 90% of their boonstrips (from Anets balance patches) and arent inherently mobile, its a very unhealthy Rock-Paper-Scissors check.

On the other hand,
The Valor buffs have long since given PowerBenders the ability to get more sustain and consistent Fury/Reso double Crit buff with minimum Concentration, while still having cleanse/some might/tiny bits of Prot packed into the traitline.

This means Powerbender is barely fazed by Cele nerfs, and some specs that completely rely on the stat bloat + Conc got a nerf.
In fact this is a side buff to WB, and 1shot Teefs, which in turn makes ppl turn to WB to escape/engage Teefs.
And the cycle continues...

Edited September 14 by MercurialKuroSludge.8974

[willow.8209]

5 hours ago, manu.7539 said:

Finally, now at least we'll be able to focus on real issues.

i wouldn't count on it. forum complaints only register if they're targeted at something people actually like for good reasons

[willow.8209]

what in the world.. Some reasons why this particular cele nerf doesn't make sense:

That's the way you can try all the roles without having legendary gear, constantly replacing your gear, or having a ton of equipment templates

You can get other good power + conc gear, but cele was the only condi + conc gear useful for WvW

Cele is a good workaround for players with disabilities who don't have good reaction times, attention, dexterity, eyesight, etc. 

[willow.8209]

some might take this as a nerf to boonball, but it's during group play where your cele gear is less important. (I'm not claiming nobody uses it as that isn't something I'd know, just that you can get by fine without when you stick with a group.

This is actually a nerf to roaming. It's an insult to players who play off-hours or have a varied schedule. 

And it's a bonus to gankers. (since the gear of gankers doesn't matter so much they're in a group, but the gear of the target matters)

Edited September 14 by willow.8209

[Jojo.6590]

This is a great start. I would much rather they do this than butcher traits and skills to balance around celes thus killing other builds and playstyles that don't use celes. 

[Kulvar.1239]

8 hours ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

So I guess this forum is going back to hating on Minstrel next, or..?

Next will be Marauder, Trailblazer, Ritualist, Plaguedoctor, and Minstrel because "can't kill them they have too much health".

[Kulvar.1239]

1 hour ago, willow.8209 said:

what in the world.. Some reasons why this particular cele nerf doesn't make sense:

That's the way you can try all the roles without having legendary gear, constantly replacing your gear, or having a ton of equipment templates

You can get other good power + conc gear, but cele was the only condi + conc gear useful for WvW

Cele is a good workaround for players with disabilities who don't have good reaction times, attention, dexterity, eyesight, etc. 

There's ritualist for "condi + conc".

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

8 hours ago, Codename T.2847 said:

Now people will start mixing trailblazer/ritualist/marauder instead XD but i'm glad, never expected Anet to have this micdrop of a patch on a random kitten september day

Anyone thinking celestial is the reason Boon groups are broken as they are is naive. Sure, Celestial may have supplement the issue, but the reality is, Celes is only strong because Anet have been gutting Boon stripping, and oversaturating the game with boons over the years during their mission to give every single class a boon. Very little will change if boon balls are forced to change to something else. The same problem will continue to apply. Maybe a little less mixed stat to work with, but with how abundance healing is in this game now, they will get by fine, while this change screw over the small group the most.

If this is the solution everyone hoped for, no wonder this game mode is doomed lmao. Removing Concentration and expertise won't suddenly fix the issue people are having.

Edited September 14 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[Kulvar.1239]

18 hours ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

Anyone thinking celestial is the reason Boon groups are broken as they are is naive. Sure, Celestial may have supplement the issue, but the reality is, Celes is only strong because Anet have been gutting Boon stripping, and oversaturating the game with boons over the years during their mission to give every single class a boon. Very little will change if boon balls are forced to change to something else. The same problem will continue to apply. Maybe a little less mixed stat to work with, but with how abundance healing is in this game now, they will get by fine, while this change screw over the small group the most.

If this is the solution everyone hoped for, no wonder this game mode is doomed lmao.

Also, the runes giving 5%/10%/10% boon/condition duration were never changed to give 35/65/125 concentration/expertise, which would shave 10% boon/condition duration.

Leading to the situation where the superior rune of the pack gives 175 power, 125 precision, 15% boon duration,
while superior rune of the chronomancer gives 175 power, 100 precision, 10% boon duration, making that entire rune useless to exist.

I'm not worried, people will complain that they still can't kill anyone but get killed by everybody. And then they'll cry that removing celestial did not made them good players.

Edited September 14 by Kulvar.1239
typo

[Skada.1362]

2 hours ago, willow.8209 said:

 

Cele is a good workaround for players with disabilities who don't have good reaction times, attention, dexterity, eyesight, etc. 

100% agree with you on this one!

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

9 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

they'll cry that removing celestial did not made them good players

 Make no mistake. Ball group are still going to be unkillable, they're still going to roll over someone who isn't in the same ball group. Their complaints are still as valid as ever, so dismissing their complaint with "Crying" Doesn't help make the game mode better, because frankly the game mode is still as kitten as ever.

But I also understand that celes will only change the meta slightly. If people want real change, then Anet need to revert the boon stripping changes, and tone down some of boon saturation they gave classes, because those are the major player as to why this kitten is awful.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Guess my roaming days as an ele are over.  Was already having enough trouble with Thieves and Harbingers, but now that all my condi damage and boons are going to get cut 42% I don't see much of a point.  I could try and go back to Marshalls, but I suspect willbenders will just kill me then.  

[Sonork.2916]

31 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Guess my roaming days as an ele are over.  Was already having enough trouble with Thieves and Harbingers, but now that all my condi damage and boons are going to get cut 42% I don't see much of a point.  I could try and go back to Marshalls, but I suspect willbenders will just kill me then.  

Harbs are stupid strong because of cele... and thieves are just unfun to fight due to stealth and teleport spam.   If you really wanted you could get conc/exp by using... maybe... other stat sets?  instead of relying on an over-bloated catch all stat set that is so over the top with value it's made small scale fights and roaming terrible for years at this point.

Edited September 14 by Sonork.2916

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

1 minute ago, Sonork.2916 said:

Harbs are stupid strong because of cele... and thieves are just unfun to fight due to stealth and teleport spam.   If you really wanted you could get conc/exp by using... maybe... other stat sets?  instead of relying on an over-bloated catch all stat set that is so over the top with value it's made small scale fights and roaming terrible for years at this point.

What other stat set?

[Codename T.2847]

32 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Guess my roaming days as an ele are over.  Was already having enough trouble with Thieves and Harbingers, but now that all my condi damage and boons are going to get cut 42% I don't see much of a point.  I could try and go back to Marshalls, but I suspect willbenders will just kill me then.  

Come ooon, Ele is not THAT helpless on power builds. Besides, with the dagger buffs you can turn the tides in any fight with an average Joe willbender who thinks you're a free kill ^^

[Sonork.2916]

4 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

What other stat set?

You can mix and match stat sets to get different combos of stats.  So you could have mostly cele, but with like 3-5 other stat pieces to provide or lean in a specific direction for your build.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

5 minutes ago, Sonork.2916 said:

You can mix and match stat sets to get different combos of stats.  So you could have mostly cele, but with like 3-5 other stat pieces to provide or lean in a specific direction for your build.

Such as?

[willow.8209]

2 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

There's ritualist for "condi + conc".

1. it doesn't look helpful in WvW to me, where I want the toughness particularly when using condi. seems fine for fractals and open world, just not wvw. 

2. there's no precision. when I asked why precision was on so many condi gears since it seemed like a power stat to me, I was told precision is needed to make condi process sometimes (sounded like by critting your low strike skills)

[willow.8209]

2 hours ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

Anyone thinking celestial is the reason Boon groups are broken as they are is naive. Sure, Celestial may have supplement the issue, but the reality is, Celes is only strong because Anet have been gutting Boon stripping, and oversaturating the game with boons over the years during their mission to give every single class a boon. Very little will change if boon balls are forced to change to something else. The same problem will continue to apply. Maybe a little less mixed stat to work with, but with how abundance healing is in this game now, they will get by fine, while this change screw over the small group the most.

If this is the solution everyone hoped for, no wonder this game mode is doomed lmao. Removing Concentration and expertise won't suddenly fix the issue people are having.

I agree that the issue is more that there is no more counter to boons, not a specific attribute combination, and that solo and small group play will be the most hurt (not the big boon balls)

it would be better to put more stripping back in, i agree there too

i don't think people who complain on the forums about classes they don't typically play are very representative of the player base as a whole. If they really think the current bogeyman is that OP, they would be playing it instead of whatever they're using instead. 

Edited September 14 by willow.8209
brain fog

[CafPow.1542]

24 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Such as?

Plaguedoc / Traiblazer / Minstrel.

maybe even go full Marauder / Trailblazer / Minstrel with equal distribution or something.

i too am a cele-ele enjoyer i admit it but i am not sure if this is the end of the world.

 

/edit sometimes i good in pvp a bit and it works too and there is no cele. It’s doable.

Edited September 14 by CafPow.1542

[T G.7496]

Well, they just removed one of the few things keeping this forum alive.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

1 minute ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Plaguedoc / Traiblazer / Minstrel.

maybe even go full Marauder / Trailblazer / Minstrel with equal distribution or something.

i too am a cele-ele enjoyer i admit it but i am not sure if this is the end of the world.

 

/edit sometimes i good in pvp a bit and it works too and there is no cele. It’s doable.

Those condi builds don't provide any offense.  Condi ele doesn't have many conditions to stack, so all of the damage will just be cleansed away effortlessly.  I tried Marauder after the damage nerfs, and I found very quickly that it lacks the power to kill any of the tankier builds, so in effect it only works against other marauder players who aren't paying attention.  Mixing those three stats together will result in an impotent build that can't do anything at all.

Even after the nerfs, celestial is still the best option for roaming ele.  Except now that it has lost all of its boon duration and condi duration, it is now far easier to kill, escape from, chase down, out-grind, etc.  Meanwhile, Celestial Harbingers will just switch to trailblazer, because they can output every condition all at the same time.