Alacrity: Time for a Change

[Zlater.6789]

@Robert Gee.9246 how does alacrity stack against a renegade's alacrity in the new system? I'd be very disappointed to see renegades seamlessly stack more alacrity than chronomancers seeing that unlike renegade, alacrity is a very significant part of the chronomancer elite spec.

[Ashamir.9574]

@"Lexan.5930" said:yay more build diversity and more gameplay options for raids.

A chrono is literally the only class in this game that can provide a decent uptime on Alacrity. Yes, this change makes Chrono worse, but since there is still nothing to replace it with, the meta will still be 2 chronos per squad.

As somebody mentioned already: Anet could have just made Alacrity affect 10 people, which would scrap a Chrono.

Atm the status is that you absolutely need chronos, but nobody wants to play them. At times half or more of the lfg is "lf Chrono" on a squad with 9 – or even worse, 8 – people. All the main chronos I know now play dps. Reason? Dps is easier, and for some also more fun.

If anything, these changes will make the situation worse imo.

[Miki.3862]

I'm actually quite excited about this, I much prefer Alacrity being a Boon as it seems to make perfect sense in that group. I won't lie about being happy to see the boat shaken on the Alacrity meta as well for raids, I honestly feel like it kind of sucks that Alacrity is seemingly so crucial for any run to go well, beyond scraping the enrage timer.(which admittedly are all quite lenient and aren't insta-wipes when activated)

[Zoser.7245]

What make Chrono unique is the combination of alacrity + quickness + cc but with the reduction up to 25% and knowing how low dps has the chronotank if the renegade can now share enough uptime alacrity "boon" and get the quickness to the raid from another dps specialization, the chrono will be dismissed immediately.

It's too soon to made asumptions. A lot of theorycrafting and test for the next week. We'll see what happens. At the end, they have the key to change till the last moment a single trait or skill that change all. Only they know in what direction or future they want for the Chronomancer and it will also be necessary to see how the changes in the core mesmer plus the change in the confusion affect the specialization, not only in raid.

[Knox.8962]

Just some numbers for reference since there are a lot of people claiming they always have 100% alacrity uptime already.

Alacrity Uptimes (50th Percentile) - Per GW2Raidar

Wing 1

• VG - 50.77%
• Gors - 60.39%
• Sab - 68.89%

Wing 2

• Sloth - 59.36%
• Matthias - 55.42%

Wing 3

• KC - 45.44%
• Xera P1 Only - 76.52%
• Xera - 55.37%

Wing 4

• Cairn - 50.94%
• MO - 73.09%
• Samarog - 55.57%
• Deimos - 39.33%

Wing 5

• SH - 68.24%
• Dhuum (Boss Only) - 46.54%

[XMetroidfanX.3894]

@"Robert Gee.9246" said:I am guessing you are talking about uptime for a raid group and not personal quickness uptime? When we checked current raid builds we found that quickness uptime was already higher than 100%. Removing it from Tides of Time should still allow full uptime, though it may be a little more difficult to run without Time Warp now.

I would just like some clarification for where you found these builds, and what the builds are. If you're speaking in general, not all of the Chrono builds can maintain well over 100% uptime. If you would like an example of when this is not true, here is a link to my video of Duelling/Illusions/Chronomancer in the current update:

You can see in the video that I never completely lose quickness, however I wouldn't consider this particular build to be well over 100% quickness uptime. In fact, I wasn't even perfect while doing it. Watch Quantify's video of this build as well , and you'll notice that they run out of quickness for around one second while waiting for the Continuum Split to be off cooldown:

The point of this being that specifically for builds lacking the Inspiration Traitline like Dueling/Illusions, quickness uptime is not well over 100%, and what you're saying is a blanket statement that isn't true (Including for Domination/Illusions). And the reason I bring this up is because that Chronomancer is rewarded in self DPS for how well they play (at the moment), and how high DPS of a build they decide to use. To take away Tides of Time can potentially ruin these builds and restrict Chronomancer to an even more formulaic playstyle, and that isn't how the majority of the community views the class as. We typically think of a Chronomancer as an extremely flexible class, able to "carry" the CC on a boss, able to pull in mobs, tank, and bring any utility to the fight that is needed without sacrificing their quickness or alacrity. Pretty much, they are the backbone of a good team. To imply that we need to bring Time Warp is a little unnerving to a lot of us considering Chronomancer's current place and role.

In my opinion, if all of what I said is true, then the update should focus on making Chronomancer easier to play for new people, and more powerful and easy for veterans of the class and role, rather than what this update seems to bring, which is more build restriction and less flexibility for this class.

I say all of this from a purely PvE standpoint, and that I am biased towards raids.

[Zlater.6789]

@XMetroidfanX.3894 said:

@"Robert Gee.9246" said:I am guessing you are talking about uptime for a raid group and not personal quickness uptime? When we checked current raid builds we found that quickness uptime was already higher than 100%. Removing it from Tides of Time should still allow full uptime, though it may be a little more difficult to run without Time Warp now.

I would just like some clarification for where you found these builds, and what the builds are. If you're speaking in general, not all of the Chrono builds can maintain

well

over 100% uptime. If you would like an example of when this is not true, here is a link to my video of Duelling/Illusions/Chronomancer in the current update:

You can see in the video that I never completely lose quickness, however I wouldn't consider this particular build to be

well over 100%

quickness uptime. In fact, I wasn't even perfect while doing it. Watch Quantify's video of this build as well , and you'll notice that they run out of quickness for around one second while waiting for the Continuum Split to be off cooldown:

The point of this being that specifically for builds lacking the Inspiration Traitline like Dueling/Illusions, quickness uptime is not well over 100%, and what you're saying is a blanket statement that isn't true (Including for Domination/Illusions). And the reason I bring this up is because that Chronomancer is rewarded in self DPS for how well they play (at the moment), and how high DPS of a build they decide to use. To take away Tides of Time can potentially ruin these builds and restrict Chronomancer to an even more formulaic playstyle, and that isn't how the majority of the community views the class as. We typically think of a Chronomancer as an extremely flexible class, able to "carry" the CC on a boss, able to pull in mobs, tank, and bring any utility to the fight that is needed without sacrificing their quickness or alacrity. Pretty much, they are the backbone of a good team. To imply that we need to bring Time Warp is a little unnerving to a lot of us considering Chronomancer's current place and role.

In my opinion, if all of what I said is true, then the update should focus on making Chronomancer easier to play for new people, and more powerful and easy for veterans of the class and role,

rather

than what this update seems to bring, which is more build restriction and less flexibility for this class.

I say all of this from a purely PvE standpoint, and that I am biased towards raids.

You have to remember that illusions/dueling is designed for 10 man content only, that's because quickness is higher per person with 2 Chronos vs 1, and that's due to tides of time hitting the entire squad.

I agree though, I imagine that removing an extremely significant source of quickness like shield 5 is not going to make timewarp meta, that's because Moa will still be required for many bosses being that the cc on the current meta dps is extremely lacking. Removing that quickness will just make it extremely difficult for any new chronomancer to execute their rotation properly, it lifts the skill floor where it doesn't need to be lifted.

[Knox.8962]

@Coronit.9432 said:

@"Knox.8962" said:Just some numbers for reference since there are a lot of people claiming they always have 100% alacrity uptime already.

Alacrity Uptimes (50th Percentile) - Per GW2Raidar

Wing 1

• VG - 50.77%
• Gors - 60.39%
• Sab - 68.89%

Wing 2

• Sloth - 59.36%
• Matthias - 55.42%

Wing 3

• KC - 45.44%
• Xera P1 Only - 76.52%
• Xera - 55.37%

Wing 4

• Cairn - 50.94%
• MO - 73.09%
• Samarog - 55.57%
• Deimos - 39.33%

Wing 5

• SH - 68.24%
• Dhuum (Boss Only) - 46.54%

No idea how you support this stats, but anayway it sounds lik ten times better whatevery anet is smoking right now. their balance is beyond kitten, As if alacrity was any kind of a core problem. It was. AT kitten HOT RELEASE BECAUSE IT GRANTED CHRONO A 66% decrease it was decreased. WHY? becasue it was broken. Right now it is ok for pve and cd´s in pvp/wvw. If that is your BIG balance patch it wont recover from that. You are simply out of everything, because that is disgusting. I recently played Lotr war in the norse. despite it bugs I had more fun because they at least had fun at what they did. gw2 at its current state is really dpendent on its balance team. And they are completely idiotic.

GW2Raidar provides that info per boss.

You can see it here

[XMetroidfanX.3894]

@Zlater.6789 said:You have to remember that illusions/dueling is designed for 10 man content only, that's because quickness is higher per person with 2 Chronos vs 1, and that's due to tides of time hitting the entire squad.

I agree though, I imagine that removing an extremely significant source of quickness like shield 5 is not going to make timewarp meta, that's because Moa will still be required for many bosses being that the cc on the current meta dps is extremely lacking. Removing that quickness will just make it extremely difficult for any new chronomancer to execute their rotation properly, it lifts the skill floor where it doesn't need to be lifted.

This. I forgot about the bleedover quickness effect. and how you can apply to multiple subgroups. But yes, there is no reason to make the class even more inaccessible to newer people. A lot of people say - and I agree - Chrono is hard to gear already (Concentration Sigil & Leadership Runes).

[BrokenGlass.9356]

With alacrity being a boon, healing renegade can keep 100% uptime in harrier gear... which is extremely nice

second... does the bubble work on Cairn's projectiles? that would be nice to destroy them.

third and most importantlywould the issue be solved with a buff to time warp?

• what if Time Warp increased the attack speed cap while its active?
• this would allow classes like reaper and core warrior to get a major dps boost from it.
• increase attack speed cap by 50%
• +10% friendly attack speed, as an effect and not a boon, for the duration
• -10% enemy attack speed, as an effect and not a boon, for the duration

[BikeIsGone.8675]

As for the "alacrity and dps":I have done some testing on the LA aerodrome golem using the meta warrior bannerslave build.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAT8fnckC1egdfAukCElilpA7N1+artHDwAwILpEMCKgA-jxhHQBEU5H9U/hc6GAwFBQjKB94+D16JAQKgFVWB-e

All testing has been done with "realistic boons":

• 25 Might, Fury, Swiftness, Quickness and Regeneration
• Pinpoint distribution, Spotter, Banner of Strength + Discipline, Empower Allies, Sun + Frost SpiritI did 5 testruns respectively "with alacrity" and "without alacrity".

With alacrity:1 - 26.3k2 - 26.6k3 - 26.2k4 - 28.0k5 - 27.0kaverage: 26.8k

Without alacrity:1 - 25.0k2 - 24.4k3 - 24.7k4 - 25.2k5 - 25.9kaverage: 25.0k

Quite surprisingly, at least for this specific Warrior build (restricted utility slots and all), the dps boost you get from the current alacrity is only about ~7%.Thats for 33% CDR (cooldown reduction). Meaning 1% CDR is about 0,2% more dps, meaning that with the new alacrity you only get a ~5% boost.Rather minimal.If you even factor in, that the average group on a tank and spank boss (like MO) only can maintain that 7% boost for about ~70% of the time that is an average of 4.9% dmg increase throughout the entire fight. So if you have a 25% CDR buff with a 100% uptime, there is barely any change to this "rework" dmgwise.

[Xstein.2187]

I'm gonna be completely honest here. I think many in the community, including myself, are confused and frustrated. To explain why, i'll list some simple statements below.

1. The dominant role for any 'niche' in the meta is going to take over. For example, whatever class is the best at supplying alacrity and quickness while dealing damage is going to take over, no matter how potent quickness or alacrity are. There seems to be this illusion, no pun intended, going around that if two classes can supply the same or around the same amount of alacrity and quickness than there will be a 'choice'. This is simply not the case, and it will never be the case. The comp that deals the most damage while providing boons themselves will always be the only choice. If in the future a rev provides more quickness and alacrity than a chrono, even with alacrity at 25%, then rev will be chosen over chrono. It will not be a choice. If a comp that uses a mixture of revs and firebrands instead of chronos manages to out dps a comp with chronos, than revs and firebrands will be used and chrono will not be used at all. It will not be a choice. There will always be one optimal comp for a 'classical' plain Jane fight, plain and simple.

2. Making boons affect 10 people while giving classes unique boons alleviates this problem. On the other hand, making boons more 'comparable' in value while making them available to many classes does nothing. For example, if a chrono provides 33% alacrity to 10 people, then you will only need 1 chrono. However, you could also go further and create a new boon. Doesn't matter the name, so lets just name it Dr Pepper. If a rev is now able to provide a unique buff called Dr Pepper that stacks with alacrity, even if it does the exact same thing, then you would want a rev in your raid group for the dps increase. Of course, the 33% could be altered, but the main thing to understand is the 33% number really doesn't matter (that is, if the boss fight is balanced for the numbers). On the other hand, if alacrity is nerfed to 25% and given to other classes, it doesn't make a hoot of difference.

3. numbers 1 and 2 are pretty easy to understand. The gw2 community has been stating them for awhile now. Yet, when Anet is looked at by the community, it appear to us that the balance team believes number 1 (making boons comparable while making them available to more classes) is the way to go. Now, Im not saying this is what Anet balance team really believes. I am just saying, based on previous changes, to the community this appears to be the case. Therefore, it is causing much confusion and frustration in the community because they know that either Anet is foolishly trying to fix balance the wrong way (what most prob think) or that Anet is not properly communicating with us on what they are actually trying to do to fix balance in this game.

P.S. Alacrity at 33% does not mean a skill recharges 33% faster and alacrity at 25% does not mean it recharges 25% faster. With 25% alacrity, skills recharge 20% faster while with 33% alacrity, skills recharge 25% faster. That means this change is a 20% nerf to alacrity, plus a 'corruption' nerf, plus a tides of time quickness nerf. Alacrity could be at 100% before this change regardless of boon duration, so boon duration doesn't matter. So, why they are making this change? I don't know, but as explained above it sure isn't going to create more class diversity in raids if that is what they are truly looking for.

[MedievalThings.5417]

My guess this was Anet's solution to the complaint thread on mesmers.The PROBLEM is that they can chain 6-9 abilities and use all of them in .5 seconds (this is a wvw and pvp complaint). No counterplay.The SOLUTION is that they will nerf alacrity and make it a boon (at most a pve raiding issue).

Why Anet...WHY! Fix things that ARE broken...not things randomly that NO ONE has an issue with.

[Attuned To Love.6579]

funny thing is ... wherever you read either here or on Reddit ... everyone dislikes ( or at least 90% of the replies) the upcoming alacrity nerf.

It was just not needed ... doesn't help to open group play at all ... anet went the right way with grace of the land ... when they made it 10 man ...

they probably went the right way when they changed it to might even if I think it's a bit sad to eliminate a boon/effect ( should have given glyphs old gotl and ca the might stuff )

It is also ok to make alacrity a boon ... but not ok is tonerf it down just because it is a boon !It was easy accessible before ... and it will be easy now ... but it will make so many things so clunky

I am really not looking forward what else happens Tuesday because as long as the same ppl are making the balance it feels more like they are working against their playerbase not for them ....

The thing that annoys me the most is that there are so many people complaining ... and also a lot asking what the intentional idea of the balance team was for this alacrity nerf .. and they are that ignorant to not even give a reasonable answer apart from ... it's a boon now 33% is too strong... what makes no real sense...

Ty for nothin but making everything worse...

[Knox.8962]

@Xstein.2187 said:I'm gonna be completely honest here. I think many in the community, including myself, are confused and frustrated. To explain why, i'll list some simple statements below.

The comp that deals the most damage while providing boons themselves will always be the only choice. If in the future a rev provides more quickness and alacrity than a chrono, even with alacrity at 25%, then rev will be chosen over chrono. It will not be a choice. If a comp that uses a mixture of revs and firebrands instead of chronos manages to out dps a comp with chronos, than revs and firebrands will be used and chrono will not be used at all.

This is already very possible. A comp with a 2nd Group using a Quickbrand + Condi Renegade + 3 DPS is already as good or better damage than the chrono/druid + DPS setup. People still use Chrono + druid because they have 2 years of experience with it already and it is easier to form groups.

Alacrity could be at 100% before this change regardless of boon duration, so boon duration doesn't matter.

While 100% alacrity uptime was possible before (even with a lot of cushion) it was very rarely actually achieved in fights more complicated than Mursaat Overseer. Making alacrity a boon in theory allows for higher uptimes even if the effect is weaker. This should provide a more stable experience for the people receiving the boon. Additionally, this should make it significantly easier for a support Rev to keep alacrity up on a group.

[BrokenGlass.9356]

@Knox.8962 said:

@"Xstein.2187" said:I'm gonna be completely honest here. I think many in the community, including myself, are confused and frustrated. To explain why, i'll list some simple statements below.

The comp that deals the most damage while providing boons themselves will always be the only choice. If in the future a rev provides more quickness and alacrity than a chrono, even with alacrity at 25%, then rev will be chosen over chrono. It will not be a choice. If a comp that uses a mixture of revs and firebrands instead of chronos manages to out dps a comp with chronos, than revs and firebrands will be used and chrono will not be used at all.

This is already very possible. A comp with a 2nd Group using a Quickbrand + Condi Renegade + 3 DPS is already as good or better damage than the chrono/druid + DPS setup. People still use Chrono + druid because they have 2 years of experience with it already and it is easier to form groups.

Alacrity could be at 100% before this change regardless of boon duration, so boon duration doesn't matter.

While 100% alacrity uptime was possible before (even with a lot of cushion) it was very rarely actually achieved in fights more complicated than Mursaat Overseer. Making alacrity a boon in theory allows for higher uptimes even if the effect is weaker. This should provide a more stable experience for the people receiving the boon. Additionally, this should make it significantly easier for a support Rev to keep alacrity up on a group.

exactly.

and the conversion for alacrity to a boon helps rev a great deal.

see, the problem with a stagnant meta, is that as Xstein said, people get set into the way of doing it. so... in order to change the behavior of the player base, you have to "overnerf" some things, to force the "obvious best" into a new slot. the bonus in our situation, is that we know we can clear content with the old comp... so even if chrono is no longer the go-to, it dosent matter. it will be good enough, and TONS of people will have geared and ready chronos.. so, if renegade/firebrand becomes a thing, im totally into it. (and i play both rev and firebrand, so maybe im biased)

[Xstein.2187]

@BrokenGlass.9356 said:

@Knox.8962 said:

@"Xstein.2187" said:I'm gonna be completely honest here. I think many in the community, including myself, are confused and frustrated. To explain why, i'll list some simple statements below.

The comp that deals the most damage while providing boons themselves will always be the only choice. If in the future a rev provides more quickness and alacrity than a chrono, even with alacrity at 25%, then rev will be chosen over chrono. It will not be a choice. If a comp that uses a mixture of revs and firebrands instead of chronos manages to out dps a comp with chronos, than revs and firebrands will be used and chrono will not be used at all.

This is already very possible. A comp with a 2nd Group using a Quickbrand + Condi Renegade + 3 DPS is already as good or better damage than the chrono/druid + DPS setup. People still use Chrono + druid because they have 2 years of experience with it already and it is easier to form groups.

Alacrity could be at 100% before this change regardless of boon duration, so boon duration doesn't matter.

While 100% alacrity uptime was possible before (even with a lot of cushion) it was very rarely actually achieved in fights more complicated than Mursaat Overseer. Making alacrity a boon in theory allows for higher uptimes even if the effect is weaker. This should provide a more stable experience for the people receiving the boon. Additionally, this should make it significantly easier for a support Rev to keep alacrity up on a group.

exactly.

and the conversion for alacrity to a boon helps rev a great deal.

see, the problem with a stagnant meta, is that as Xstein said, people get set into the way of doing it. so... in order to change the behavior of the player base, you have to "overnerf" some things, to force the "obvious best" into a new slot. the bonus in our situation, is that we know we can clear content with the old comp... so even if chrono is no longer the go-to, it dosent matter. it will be good enough, and TONS of people will have geared and ready chronos.. so, if renegade/firebrand becomes a thing, im totally into it. (and i play both rev and firebrand, so maybe im biased)

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, it still saddens me that making 'alternative choices' will still never lead to a balance scenario where raid groups want one of each class in a raid group. I guess for me, that would be my ideal balance scenario.

[BrokenGlass.9356]

i feel that, but in that situation, it would be really hard to fill groups.

they could do it by giving every class a frost spirit that stacks. wouldnt be fun, but it would work.

my idea of idea balance... is that if you show up playing any class, so long as your build and gear makes sense for the content, folk will want you there.

[Xstein.2187]

@BrokenGlass.9356 said:i feel that, but in that situation, it would be really hard to fill groups.

they could do it by giving every class a frost spirit that stacks. wouldnt be fun, but it would work.

my idea of idea balance... is that if you show up playing any class, so long as your build and gear makes sense for the content, folk will want you there.

You can't disagree with that. I suppose that would be the ultimate balance. However, I just don't see that being possible. To me, the next best option is having the option of getting into a raid group with any class period. However, your right, it would lead to troubles if people want to pug. So, what would be the ultimate 'realistic' scenario? Thats the question

[Attuned To Love.6579]

It's not like it's not possible to clear raids efficiently with all available classes.... it's just not the most efficient way .. so the meta will always exist ... because classes will always have their ups and downs

The thing is an alacrity change doesn't help much

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

@Sarrs.4831 said:Very curious how this will go for Renegades and Heralds. I quite like the idea of a boon-duration stacking Herald which is good for sending Might, Fury and Alacrity.Let's Make Revenant A Buff Bot Again.

NO THANK YOU TO ANOTHER PATCH OVER THIS CLASS, KTHX BYE

[Yasi.9065]

@"BikeIsGone.8675" said:As for the "alacrity and dps":[...]Quite surprisingly, at least for this specific Warrior build (restricted utility slots and all), the dps boost you get from the current alacrity is only about ~7%.Thats for 33% CDR (cooldown reduction). Meaning 1% CDR is about 0,2% more dps, meaning that with the new alacrity you only get a ~5% boost.Rather minimal.If you even factor in, that the average group on a tank and spank boss (like MO) only can maintain that 7% boost for about ~70% of the time that is an average of 4.9% dmg increase throughout the entire fight. So if you have a 25% CDR buff with a 100% uptime, there is barely any change to this "rework" dmgwise.

The pitfalls of napkin math ;)

You cant really compare full rotations with and without alacrity, and then extrapolate a coefficient for alacrity dps increase out of that. Doesnt work that way for a lot builds, berserker being a prominent one... holosmith being another one. Basically every build you have to fit in burst skills into a certain time limit. To think of it... thats probably all but mirage and slb?

See, the thing is... if you can just fit in one more high dps skill into photon forge/berserk mode because of 33% alacrity, and you cant do that anymore with 25%, thats not a flat dps decrease.

---

On topic. Id like to see, in addition to this change, 5man/10man special buffs being removed (or reworked into personal buffs) and all boons made 10 man. Banners could be re-worked into something like spirits, with pulsing boons, spirits "special buffs" should be removed. Flat dps increase buffs like GoE should be removed. Firebrand aegis application frequency has to be looked at anyway.Sounds radical, but if you think about it, its the only real solution out of this balancing nightmare that boons/buffs have become. And its the only real way to end the mirrorcomp while keeping squad-dps roughly the same.

And after that, on to elementalist... reducing a certain air trade to 10%, reworking all impact aoe skills into pulsing aoe dmg fields, nice, constant, balanced dmg... off to dream some more.

[musu.9205]

@Yasi.9065 said:

@"BikeIsGone.8675" said:As for the "alacrity and dps":[...]Quite surprisingly, at least for this specific Warrior build (restricted utility slots and all), the dps boost you get from the current alacrity is only about ~7%.Thats for 33% CDR (cooldown reduction). Meaning 1% CDR is about 0,2% more dps, meaning that with the new alacrity you

only

get a ~5% boost.Rather minimal.If you even factor in, that the average group on a tank and spank boss (like MO) only can maintain that 7% boost for about ~70% of the time that is an average of 4.9% dmg increase throughout the entire fight. So if you have a 25% CDR buff with a 100% uptime, there is barely any change to this "rework" dmgwise.

The pitfalls of napkin math ;)

You cant really compare full rotations with and without alacrity, and then extrapolate a coefficient for alacrity dps increase out of that. Doesnt work that way for a lot builds, berserker being a prominent one... holosmith being another one. Basically every build you have to fit in burst skills into a certain time limit. To think of it... thats probably all but mirage and slb?

See, the thing is... if you can just fit in one more high dps skill into photon forge/berserk mode because of 33% alacrity, and you cant do that anymore with 25%, thats not a flat dps decrease.

---

On topic. Id like to see, in addition to this change, 5man/10man special buffs being removed (or reworked into personal buffs) and all boons made 10 man. Banners could be re-worked into something like spirits, with pulsing boons, spirits "special buffs" should be removed. Flat dps increase buffs like GoE should be removed. Firebrand aegis application frequency has to be looked at anyway.Sounds radical, but if you think about it, its the only real solution out of this balancing nightmare that boons/buffs have become. And its the only real way to end the mirrorcomp while keeping squad-dps roughly the same.

And after that, on to elementalist... reducing a certain air trade to 10%, reworking all impact aoe skills into pulsing aoe dmg fields, nice, constant, balanced dmg... off to dream some more.

then we just back to zerk meta . support has to be powerful so you want to invest into support build . but hey gw2 playerbase always love the illusion of so called choice instead of checking hard math .the passion to destroy support role in gw2 playerbase is so much lol

and btw even anet delete entire air trait line , arcane is still op dps for weaver , same with water but water is much annoying to play around and harder to pull off .thats how op ele is .

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Akeno.4962 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Akeno.4962 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Personally I was sick of the chrono meta. As a player with a newly kitted out Harrier healing Renegade, this pleases me.

Sadly, the only thing support renegade could brag about was personal damage compared to a condi druid. Now we're losing that. So what's the point of a support renegade anymore? Not that it had any point before, apart from flavour and being tired of the mirror chrono setup: it lacks cc, meaning buffs and ways to deal with mechanics compared to druid.

Renegade has excellent CC. It is one of the best in the game. Alongside of that, it does the following:

Caps mightCaps alacrityPermanent meaningful regenSpots of protectionAssassin's PresenceStacks VulnerabilityReflects projectiles on command.

Combine this with a resting crit chance of 42% in Harriers, and Soulcleave's massive DPS boost + heal combo, and it leaves me wondering why anyone would bother bringing a druid.

1) Druids (and I still don't understand why it has to be this way) have better CC than us by using rock gazelle and electric wyvern, among other skills like

Glyph of the Tides

. This means they aren't pushed away of the group by

Surge of the Mists

, don't have to waste all their energy on exploding the tablet or aren't stuck on a long cast to use

Darkrazor's daring

, that effectively works as a medium speed cc because its divided in pulses of low breakbar damage.2) As long as you have a harrier druid, 25 stacks of might is expected, and you're always taking one. You can still produce a great amount of might while in viper, its current "meta" stats.3) Yeah, but it also capped alacrity when using a full viper support renegade.4) Regen is actually at crossroads now. Before, support renegade didn't take any regen traits because of chronomancers overwriting it. Next balance patch it won't happen, so regen traits will actually be better for healing your group. But, by taking them, you make harder for your druid to recharge their avatar, meaning less might for 10 people while you can only provide for 5.5) 6) When viper support renegade build was designed, it focused in having the best personal damage and mediocre healing because it would pick up condi druid disappeared role. That meant not taking devastation (any regular dps renegade would bring it), so it lost assassin's presence and vulnerability stacking, and taking

Heartpiercer

instead of

All for one

.7) Currently there's no encounter where an amazingly long on demand projectile destruction bubble its a way to deal with mechanics. If it reflected them, it could work in slothasor or Mathias. If it cleansed condis for each projectile, it would alleviate some preassure from sloth and probably desmina while wurms are up (i haven't investigated if those are projectiles or not). If it were an on demand guardian's sanctuary it would mean greater cc capabilities but it would be op in pvp.8) The problem with

Soulcleave's Summit

is the way lifestealing works. Its damage is tied to power, so dps renegades would abuse this skill if it were any meaningful group dps addition. But they don't because the damage it increases, even if its nice, isn't nothing to write home about it, probably to avoid dps renegades abusing this skill. So as a healer you use it a "momentary invulnerability", which is nice, again. But the skill would work miles better if it meant a powerful group dps increase to a level that rivals frost spirit and was tied to your healing power.

Sure, when you play harrier renegade you're free to take devastation and all renegade's support traits, and

I'd rather play that way

. But it lacks purpose and definition. It isn't fulfilling the condi druid role anymore, its just a healer. And it, quite sadly, it can't be compared with a druid in that role. So why take a renegade that does some stuff a druid can worse if its alacrity output isn't better than chrono's? They certainly could have made alacrity 10 man (so that a quickness firebrand or a dps chrono are tied for the quickness provider role in the other subgroup) and given renegade any other buff instead, and it would be in a better place.

1) The movement on surge of the mists is the least inconvenient thing ever. I also doubt that druids have better CC, since a single surge is all that is needed to break bars in fractals.2)You do realize that your argument for not taking a rev instead of a druid is because you're taking a druid? If a druid is not on the team, then capping might is very important. Viper Renegade can do this if the fire fields always line up, but a Harrier Renegade can also do it much more consistently. In fact, I'm not even sure why you're bringing up Vipers. I don't care. I'm talking about the healing build that the renegade has.3)I don't care. The point is that with boon duration applying to alacrity, the support renegade is going to be better at it. There will be a backlog of stacked alacrity bonuses, there will be more leeway for mistakes, there are looser energy demands for stacking alacrity, etc.4)The whole point is that healing renegade competes with healing druid now, so the whole "it makes druid redundant" thing is kind of the focus of the build.

5/6) I don't care.7) There are a crap-ton of encounters scattered all throughout the game where a projectile destruction bubble is useful. Anywhere there is projectiles.8)The power scaling on souclceave is pretty terrible, and Harriers already has good power, so your nonsequitor about viper builds is wrong. There are two important things about Soulcleave: It is a lifesteal that pierces all defenses, and also that it applies per hit. So, if you have capped might (450 per hit), and use Shackling Wave for 10 hits, this is an additional 4500 damage added on to that attack. This bonus has variable effectiveness between classes, but it isn't unreasonable to think that it adds 2k DPS for every member of the team.

Lacking "definition and purpose" are vague and nebulous concepts, and half of your points are nonsequitors. I'm not sure if you're talking about current builds or post-patch builds, either, as you seem to just ramble on about stuff. All I care is that a healing renegade is a strong competitor for healing druid, and that post patch heal renegade is going to be even stronger than before. Right now, the healing classes I am worried about are tempest and guardian, since those are the ones with actual problems atm.

[Knox.8962]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:There are two important things about Soulcleave: It is a lifesteal that pierces all defenses, and also that it applies per hit. So, if you have capped might (450 per hit), and use Shackling Wave for 10 hits, this is an additional 4500 damage added on to that attack. This bonus has variable effectiveness between classes, but it isn't unreasonable to think that it adds 2k DPS for every member of the team.

3-3.5 attacks per second is typically a good estimate for quickness buffed specs. That would put Soulcleave damage at 1250-1500 DPS per target while it is up.