/GG in fractals needs to be nerfed

[Talindra.4958]

I don't see why making the changes to gg is needed. It is one of best way to get skill CD in many many situation. Many fights to next room needs switching skill such as change utility skills for more cc And such.. the skill CD can be 60 sec or 40 sec .. instead if asking group to gg now we have to say can you all wait pls I'm not ready .. talking that to pug in EU.. more tedious to get pug to wait than having ppl understand important of playing ad a team to consider other members skill recharge and it is part of important game play team work and mutual understanding. It is never an abuse.
Many daily run players are not going to appreciate this change.Anyway this is my feedback. How hard is it to gg? Seriously?
When the last update for gg for skill CD.. everyone applaud to that change.Cm run without gg .... Omg.. another reason not to bother doing fractal daily

[Malediktus.9250]

@Talindra.4958 said:I don't see why making the changes to gg is needed. It is one of best way to get skill CD in many many situation. Many fights to next room needs switching skill such as change utility skills for more cc And such.. the skill CD can be 60 sec or 40 sec .. instead if asking group to gg now we have to say can you all wait pls I'm not ready .. talking that to pug in EU.. more tedious to get pug to wait than having ppl understand important of playing ad a team to consider other members skill recharge and it is part of important game play team work and mutual understanding. It is never an abuse.

Many daily run players are not going to appreciate this change.Anyway this is my feedback. How hard is it to gg? Seriously?

When the last update for gg for skill CD.. everyone applaud to that change.Cm run without gg .... Omg.. another reason not to bother doing fractal daily

I wonder how people did fractals before /gg was added. It worked just fine without it if my memory does not totally deceive me. Saying it is needed to change traits and skills all the time is just blatantly false..

[Talindra.4958]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:I don't see why making the changes to gg is needed. It is one of best way to get skill CD in many many situation. Many fights to next room needs switching skill such as change utility skills for more cc And such.. the skill CD can be 60 sec or 40 sec .. instead if asking group to gg now we have to say can you all wait pls I'm not ready .. talking that to pug in EU.. more tedious to get pug to wait than having ppl understand important of playing ad a team to consider other members skill recharge and it is part of important game play team work and mutual understanding. It is never an abuse.

Many daily run players are not going to appreciate this change.Anyway this is my feedback. How hard is it to gg? Seriously?

When the last update for gg for skill CD.. everyone applaud to that change.Cm run without gg .... Omg.. another reason not to bother doing fractal daily

I wonder how people did fractals before /gg was added. It worked just fine without it if my memory does not totally deceive me. Saying it is needed to change traits and skills all the time is just blatantly false..

The past is the past, we move forward and not going backward. Before we were way way more casual. Having to repeat the game play so many times, gg is one that makes the run more convenient.. ppl just need to gg and we can enter into the next room with skill all CD so I can change my skill for next fight. I change my utility skills all the time for diff purpose mainly to aid the group making it smoother to run. I can give few examples for each fractal map. . I really think the fractal team should look into other solution and not removing gg .. Bcos it was one good addition to aid fractal run. Well it's a hard job to please everyone ..I believe self gg to reset skill is a good solution .. eg as soon as a player is ooc if he does /gg and his skill CD is reset without having to ask the other team member to do the same or trying to get them to understand the situation. If this isn't too hard to implement then by all means it will be great news to daily runner.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I've found the GG feature to be extremely annoying. Especially in Nightmare, where the standard run has players GG several times for silly reasons:

The first one is immediately after killing the watchwork knights. It isn't that MAMA is hard enough to warrant needing all cooldowns, but that people can't be bothered to just go up and fight her.. The most annoying part is, doing this during that fight permanently ends the music, which IMO is the best song in the game.

The second, third, and fourth one is during the capture points. See, everyone abruptly decided that slaughtering the elites in 10 seconds is too much effort, so now everyone stands still while the mesmer changes all of their utilities so they can portal people up to the capture point, which they then grab and suicide in to. So they wait, grab point, gg, wait, grab point, gg, wait, grab point, gg.

The fifth and sixth ones are during the preparations for Siaxx. First, everyone blows their cooldowns and GGs at the end, just so they can reset their utilities. Then, everyone spawns Siaxx, runs in, and then GGs again. The reason for this GG is because people don't want to be bothered with running toward Siaxx. They'd rather be standing next to him when he spawns, instead of taking the very short trip where they run from the door toward him while he is doing his channel attack.

The seventh GG is immediately after Siaxx, so they can get their cooldowns for Ensolyss. You can add more, depending on how newbish the group is. When players rez before everyone is dead, we'll get a series of 3 cycles of most people dying, one person rezzing, then everyone having to GG again because one person rezzed. There are also parties where banner warriors want to double up banner time, so they'll drop banners and then GG before every single fight.

Keep in mind, I play this game with the mouse on the arm of my chair, and also with a gigantic feisty cat on my chest. Each time people want to GG, I have to drop my mouse, fight with my cat, then type GG, then pick up my mouse again. It isn't like using GG saves time in these instances. It is just convenient for people who are emotionally incapable of dealing with minor inconveniences. On other fractals, you're never sure whether people are going to GG or not, so some people will just run ahead and leave you for dead, while other people will just surrender instantly and wait for some checkpoint. One of the more annoying ones is when most of my party gg'd at the start of uncat, because they wanted the mesmer (me) to just run ahead and complete the jumping puzzle solo.

So yes, I've come to hate the GG function.

[technonewt.2907]

I personally don't see it as immersion breaking but I am not the most fond of gg if I have sigil stacks and have to lose them by gging every few min. As for the skipping past content thing, maybe devs could add rifts like in raids when you reach a certain checkpoint for ppl don't have to gg to skip ahead if they can't make it past a certain part if another group member did.

[Talindra.4958]

blood, you will always get people to ask you to do stuff in the run. few days back, in Uncategorized I was told to change pet (as a druid) to give party smoke field with my pet so they can skip through the harpies.. and guess what, I did not have that pet unlocked so i couldn't do it .. usually I would take daze and CC for harpy management and place reflect and etc to aid group that either decide to rush or decide to kill (good to kill harpies they drop t6 blood). too bad, i didn't have the pet unlocked so no smoke field :P for the group. it is still nice run as we all joke around .. i did try to get the pet next day in the new map .. but i had no luck of getting the pet yet. The person requested me to give smoke is the chrono, guess what i could have asked him for portal but i didnt.. my previous run with my chrono friend. man he was fast. he does everything for the group in a blink. everyone basically afk. to me, i am ok to fit in any group as long as they consider my position as well.

i don't think the fractal dev team should get sucked into players' drama. current gg system is good.. because of skill cool down players are unable to switch skill and so not ready for the next room. as i previously suggested individual /gg to reset cool down is good. or if we can make switching skill possible during cool down. i do not have comment for /gg to get teleport to next checkpoint. it doesn't bother me too much if we gg or not so we get tele to next checkpoint. to me, gg is important purely to be able to switch skills i think that was the initial intention of /gg added in the first place wasn't it??

[Talindra.4958]

@Vinceman.4572 said:Please no. This idea is just terrible.

Put this into the hand of the player base and change it so that people can reset their own cooldowns via gg and not be dependent on the others like we had some months ago for 1-2 weeks (or couple of days).

People will skip some parts anyways (like beginning of Chaos or at the end of Uncat) even though they won't reset their cooldowns with it.

Better start developing interesting intermediate content than wasting resources on reworking stuff over and over again. Maybe you need to hire new devs and fire the existent if they are not able to!

Vince, the comment about firing existing dev is a bit excessive. lets just be realistic.. i don't think we can find better and cooler fractal dev than that we currently have.. how many dev is actually spending their time to engage with the players in the forum just so that they can provide the best and to make things better for everyone?? it isn't easy job to do.. i would say the team is doing their best i am sure we can manage this in a more constructive way. each of our feedback will help to the decision making at the end of the day. but there is no need to threaten or put down someone :P i think you should say sowwie to Ben give some hug hug..

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

If 10 whales want something and 1000 normal players want the opposite the 10 whales will win... If you know what I mean hehe

I mean they even added the lfg filter, I bet some of the crying babies help the company a lot hehe

You want something added in the game? start spending $$$ in the game like crazy

[Talindra.4958]

anyway.. just to add in what I mentioned previously. whatever the decision at the end.. people will adapt so yeh. but I hope we can still have a way to get cd cool down and change skills without bothering another player or entire party to execute an action.

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

The idea of /gg reseting just your cooldowns and not needing a full party /gg seems like an easy change that could augment other changes in making this feel better in general.

[Malediktus.9250]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:The idea of /gg reseting just your cooldowns and not needing a full party /gg seems like an easy change that could augment other changes in making this feel better in general.I thought the point of /gg was to admit defeat so your party can wipe faster when the situation is not salvageable anymore, so that you can restart the fight faster (in raids). Not to make cooldowns meaningless. Long cooldowns are useless if a fight takes 1-2min but you can just reset them immediatly after the fight with no punishment

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:The idea of /gg reseting just your cooldowns and not needing a full party /gg seems like an easy change that could augment other changes in making this feel better in general.I thought the point of /gg was to admit defeat so your party can wipe faster when the situation is not salvageable anymore, so that you can restart the fight faster (in raids). Not to make cooldowns meaningless. Long cooldowns are useless if a fight takes 1-2min but you can just reset them immediatly after the fight with no punishment

People already do that though. That's sort of what this whole discussion is about.

[Subli.8217]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:The idea of /gg reseting just your cooldowns and not needing a full party /gg seems like an easy change that could augment other changes in making this feel better in general.

that would be the best. i hate when people ress before it's a full wipe, so it would definitely help with wanting to play with people instead of wanting to kill them. next get rid of social awkwardness and fractals can become a more friendly environment

[Malediktus.9250]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:The idea of /gg reseting just your cooldowns and not needing a full party /gg seems like an easy change that could augment other changes in making this feel better in general.I thought the point of /gg was to admit defeat so your party can wipe faster when the situation is not salvageable anymore, so that you can restart the fight faster (in raids). Not to make cooldowns meaningless. Long cooldowns are useless if a fight takes 1-2min but you can just reset them immediatly after the fight with no punishment

People already do that though. That's sort of what this whole discussion is about.

Exactly, time to make that unintended behavior impossible

[Nephalem.8921]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:The idea of /gg reseting just your cooldowns and not needing a full party /gg seems like an easy change that could augment other changes in making this feel better in general.I thought the point of /gg was to admit defeat so your party can wipe faster when the situation is not salvageable anymore, so that you can restart the fight faster (in raids). Not to make cooldowns meaningless. Long cooldowns are useless if a fight takes 1-2min but you can just reset them immediatly after the fight with no punishment

People already do that though. That's sort of what this whole discussion is about.

Exactly, time to make that unintended behavior impossible

Why do you care so much about what speedrunners do when you don't play with them in the first place? Like i said earlier, this wouldnt even change much. Just make a few fractals slightly more annoying because of small changes like chrono having to play with blink at cliffside endboss or no chrono stealth after underground console part. Except for TO, which would be super annoying and tedious.

[Will.9785]

These changes are not needed at all. Do something more useful with your time, please.

[Eramonster.2718]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:The idea of /gg reseting just your cooldowns and not needing a full party /gg seems like an easy change that could augment other changes in making this feel better in general.I thought the point of /gg was to admit defeat so your party can wipe faster when the situation is not salvageable anymore, so that you can restart the fight faster (in raids). Not to make cooldowns meaningless. Long cooldowns are useless if a fight takes 1-2min but you can just reset them immediatly after the fight with no punishment

People already do that though. That's sort of what this whole discussion is about.

Exactly, time to make that unintended behavior impossible

Why do you care so much about what speedrunners do when you don't play with them in the first place? Like i said earlier, this wouldnt even change much. Just make a few fractals slightly more annoying because of small changes like chrono having to play with blink at cliffside endboss or no chrono stealth after underground console part. Except for TO, which would be super annoying and tedious.

Agree with changes nothing but just to make fractals tedious. (E.g. waiting on the players failing the JP etc) Am one and lived long enough to learned if it's 2 things that humans are good at is; looking for problems and creating one. Question is what to do with it after finding, while trying to avoid the latter.

[Trae.2384]

Totally agree using gg to reset ur cooldowns every add pack should have never been a thing. Using it to catch up to a checkpoint is wonderful though, this makes for much less frustration for experienced players waiting for lost newbies and will prevent those random group drops because the new guys lost and too embarrassed to simply ask for help. I absolutely use the functions to reset my cds to swap stuff and would totally support it being removed.

[La Sirena.6873]

Im getting tired of this gg stuff too. Before it was just before boss fights and when something is bugged. But now some think hes downed or the dmg isnt high enough so he insta gg. and the rest of the group has to unnecessarily ress him or 4 man the content. It´s highly convenient for lazy people. They gg and let the others finish the fractal. Also all people I saw gg where the ones saying we love the new improved fractals with more trash mobs and then skip them with gg exploit. This is very contradictionary. I also feel the immersion is completely gone with this playstyle. I would rather like to see something like skill reset on activating Mistlock singularities, which would have the effect of gg but leave the immersive feeling of the fractals intact. With all this skipping and meta comp (for the easiest fractals even) we get skilless Speedplayers that dont know to carry their own weight in fractals.What fractal needs is to bring back some fun and not embrace more and more toxic behaviours.Also it feels less and less rewarding.

[Faaris.8013]

@runeblade.7514 said:

@"Faaris.8013" said:Why always think about removing something...

Why not add a reward when your team makes it through a fractal without anyone dying?

I do not want to waste time for a 120 cd just because someone wants to get that extra reward.

Well, looks like we'll waste time soon without an additional reward. I would have preferred another "solution" to something that was never a problem.

[Vinceman.4572]

@Talindra.4958 said:Vince, the comment about firing existing dev is a bit excessive. lets just be realistic.. i don't think we can find better and cooler fractal dev than that we currently have.. how many dev is actually spending their time to engage with the players in the forum just so that they can provide the best and to make things better for everyone?? it isn't easy job to do.. i would say the team is doing their best i am sure we can manage this in a more constructive way. each of our feedback will help to the decision making at the end of the day. but there is no need to threaten or put down someone :P i think you should say sowwie to Ben give some hug hug..

It was no demand to fire anyone it was just a reminder that sometimes if you are running out of ideas maybe it's better to let it (or people) go and bring in some new ideas with new staff especially if we are talking about a creative sector like game design.And more important, you don't need to change things because you think you have to change something.

The way a possible change was introduced here was unclear at first and therefore awkwardly communicated! Now that it's obvious that we are talking about still having an opportunity to reset our cooldowns the discussion can be handled way more constructive. This wasn't the case before.

A lot of players need to understand that /gg became a mechanic itself for improved and sober runs. Most gg's belong to the routine and the player base that uses them do not care about immersion - although I have to admit it's very funny this word to be mentioned by Malediktus in the first place. Not to speak about that he is also one of the players that like to speed things up although it's putative if I think about fighting some trash mobs at Battleground in one of our latest runs together.

Whatever, gg is an important tool for a special kind of player and doesn't really affect non-meta groups or groups that don't care about being efficient and fast. That's why I'm totally for an elaborated and reasonable change rather than just being against something especially if it comes from a minority of players that could easily avoid contact with it by stating it in their lfgs.

[squallaus.8321]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:The idea of /gg reseting just your cooldowns and not needing a full party /gg seems like an easy change that could augment other changes in making this feel better in general.

while you're at it, can you make /gg so that it doesn't reset sigil stacks if the person /gg-ing isn't in combat and have 100% hp?Either this or make stack sigils more useful in fractals and raids in general.

[Eramonster.2718]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:The idea of /gg reseting just your cooldowns and not needing a full party /gg seems like an easy change that could augment other changes in making this feel better in general.

while you're at it, can you make /gg so that it doesn't reset sigil stacks if the person /gg-ing isn't in combat and have 100% hp?Either this or make stack sigils more useful in fractals and raids in general.

I think that's a different issue. If everything goes well, /gg won't be needed in the first place which causes the sigil to reset. The problem is more on the sigil itself. It probably will have a better value if instead of gaining/losing stacks, the sigil builds up stacks over time by staying in combat. (Maybe a stack every 10sec and dropping/downed state reset the stacks).

[Feanor.2358]

@squallaus.8321 said:

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:The idea of /gg reseting just your cooldowns and not needing a full party /gg seems like an easy change that could augment other changes in making this feel better in general.

while you're at it, can you make /gg so that it doesn't reset sigil stacks if the person /gg-ing isn't in combat and have 100% hp?Either this or make stack sigils more useful in fractals and raids in general.

Nah, stack sigils are fine as they are. They are a niche pick and they really shouldn't be anything else. Making them optimal everywhere would enforce a way too defensive gameplay which will slow down the pace of the fights too much.

[Deeyra.1476]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:I didn't read this whole thread, but I will say we are considering removing cooldown reset from GG, and instead moving it to mistlock singularities, as /gg after every encounter/trash fight to reset is not what we had in mind with that feature. This would involve doing a pass on all the mistlock singularities to make sure they aren't in boss fights, as well as adding a fail safe buff that prevents you from resetting cooldowns in combat.

If you grabbed a mistlock singularity in combat you would probably get a buff, with which your cooldowns will be reset the next time you exit combat.

Basically what you were considering is making fractals last forever? Example, you engage and waste your long cooldowns. People fail, you wipe. Wait 2 mins for cooldowns. This happens a few times and your food goes to waste. Food that isnt cheap. And time you could be doing something else. There is no /gg in dungeons and look at how that is going for some people. Rather add rewards for not dying than removing something people do for speed clears. #triggered