Can we do something about this lovely "KP" as measurement of skill and kills in raids?

[Xantaria.8726]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:i would love inspect feature to be added to the game, with the option to keep yourself private. that would make people who don't like it happy and people who like it also happy!

No it would not since then commander would just say -put inspect on or kick.How do that make the ones who dont want it happy?

the commander is entitled to his own lfg requirements - if you join then you agree to be inspected. even now anyone can make lfg and say "link all gear or kick" so how is that any different?

it makes it easier for them so it will be used more.

So? Its their right as the ones who leads a group. Either you make your own with your own rules, or you accept the conditions of the group you are joining. Just cause others wont like it if others can use it to filter players, you are not forced to join them, but you cant force them either to adjust their lfg to those who join.

[Mysticjedi.6053]

Best screener I experienced was someone asking to explain my maximum damage rotation.Gear alone doesn't make you good. Neither does LI or KP (both can be indirectly bought or faked).

Let people in and boot if they make 2 mistakes that cause a wipe or their dps is below 10-15k.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:i would love inspect feature to be added to the game, with the option to keep yourself private. that would make people who don't like it happy and people who like it also happy!

No it would not since then commander would just say -put inspect on or kick.How do that make the ones who dont want it happy?

It allows for fairly stated expectations. Now you can be kicked for any stupid reason aswell. At least with gearcheck on stated right from the start you don't waste your time trying raid (faking your LIs and KPs) for you and whole squad.

[Xantaria.8726]

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:Best screener I experienced was someone asking to explain my maximum damage rotation.Gear alone doesn't make you good. Neither does LI or KP (both can be indirectly bought or faked).

Let people in and boot if they make 2 mistakes that cause a wipe or their dps is below 10-15k.

Of course not. Just as AP back in the days didnt say anything about your skill either. But right now its the closest we have at least to say if anyone raided for a longer time or not (if not faked). With a ingame tool you cant at least fake, which will at least not waste the food and time of those who are honest.If anyone needs help or wants to raid but has no lis, there is always a way to get help, being it to ask here in the forum, run a lfg for a raidguild/group etc. But lying about yourself and going into a group, probably wiping them depending on the boss or making it harder for them isnt fair in my opinion.

[Henry.5713]

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:Best screener I experienced was someone asking to explain my maximum damage rotation.Gear alone doesn't make you good. Neither does LI or KP (both can be indirectly bought or faked).

Let people in and boot if they make 2 mistakes that cause a wipe or their dps is below 10-15k.

I assume most people simply do not have the time needed to go through wiping for hours until they find the Holy Grail, the one person amongst a hundred who is able to carry their own weight through DPS, support and most importantly the perfet execution of mechanics as a close to complete raid newbie.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Henry.5713 said:

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:Best screener I experienced was someone asking to explain my maximum damage rotation.Gear alone doesn't make you good. Neither does LI or KP (both can be indirectly bought or faked).

Let people in and boot if they make 2 mistakes that cause a wipe or their dps is below 10-15k.

I assume most people simply do not have the time needed to go through wiping for hours until they find the Holy Grail, the one person amongst a hundred who is able to carry their own weight through DPS, support and most importantly the perfet execution of mechanics as a close to complete raid newbie.

If only the game required this at any point.

[Talindra.4958]

? I given up doing T4 if it's not full clear incl cms now. so it's either FC or no fractal if I don't hv time to do.I usually request for this in LFG -- CMs & T4+rec |100kp+ LNHB | exp chrono, bs, dps| f&pGroup from this usually quite smooth and better experience clearing under 1 hour .. depends on map for rec.. Also, from experience.. pugging FC at EU reset you get less friendly average skilled players than in EU morning time. Just to share my expeprence and am not trying to make anyone upset here ?

[Joxer.6024]

Oh man...I can see the return of "DKP"!!! That would suck, maybe. Gives the power to Guild/Raid leaders and cant be cheated. That or a Gear Score will come into play whereas if you don't have the proper gear score the game wont allow you into the content, period. I really hope these things do not see a return as they just suck the fun out of what is raiding. Shame people cant progress/raid/see content based on skill level and knowledge of fight and boss and builds and junk. Ya know, just don't be dumb? Doubtful. Just google "onyxia -50 DKP video" and you can see a taste of what we do not want my any means (but may already have?) ;)

[Azoqu.8917]

@"Joxer.6024" said:Oh man...I can see the return of "DKP"!!! That would suck, maybe. Gives the power to Guild/Raid leaders and cant be cheated. That or a Gear Score will come into play whereas if you don't have the proper gear score the game wont allow you into the content, period. I really hope these things do not see a return as they just suck the fun out of what is raiding. Shame people cant progress/raid/see content based on skill level and knowledge of fight and boss and builds and junk. Ya know, just don't be dumb? Doubtful. Just google "onyxia -50 DKP video" and you can see a taste of what we do not want my any means (but may already have?) ;)

Except DKP could never work in GW2 because the whole point of it was to auction off the gear that dropped. Since everyone in GW2 gets drops it would serve no purpose.

[Krugash.4920]

Maybe not the be all end all solution but, wouldn't it be better if the KP dropped once per kill instead of being random and time gated? The item has literally no value other than measuring players experience in raid. At least if a player practices a boss the whole week he'll have something more to show the week after instead of +1 LI +1/5 KP.

[yann.1946]

@Krugash.4920 said:Maybe not the be all end all solution but, wouldn't it be better if the KP dropped once per kill instead of being random and time gated? The item has literally no value other than measuring players experience in raid. At least if a player practices a boss the whole week he'll have something more to show the week after instead of +1 LI +1/5 KP.

It is a guild decoration so it actually has a use. ;)

[zealex.9410]

@"Sublimatio.6981" said:i would love inspect feature to be added to the game, with the option to keep yourself private. that would make people who don't like it happy and people who like it also happy!

"lf 1Chrono, Druid, Bs Have inspect on or xkp"

[zealex.9410]

Inspect would do little for gw2. The idea tbat gear carries you doesnt aply nearly as much as it does in other mmos. Kp will always be a more reliable way to massure someone's "skill".

[Zushada.6108]

@"zealex.9410" said:Inspect would do little for gw2. The idea tbat gear carries you doesnt aply nearly as much as it does in other mmos. Kp will always be a more reliable way to massure someone's "skill".

We had Inspect Achievements in SWTOR and we used that more so than gear to assess if a person had what we needed for the raid. You can have all of the gear in the world, but not know how to play the character you are on. Because Achievements were legacy (account) wide, these were often taken lightly but it did at least show raid completion and the AP showed longevity. I think this would help more than a gear check in this game as you are right, you can't outgear the bosses.

I also think the raid section of LFG should be modified to better allow for people to queue in specific roles as well as segregate training groups from experienced groups.

[zealex.9410]

@Zushada.6108 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:Inspect would do little for gw2. The idea tbat gear carries you doesnt aply nearly as much as it does in other mmos. Kp will always be a more reliable way to massure someone's "skill".

We had Inspect Achievements in SWTOR and we used that more so than gear to assess if a person had what we needed for the raid. You can have all of the gear in the world, but not know how to play the character you are on. Because Achievements were legacy (account) wide, these were often taken lightly but it did at least show raid completion and the AP showed longevity. I think this would help more than a gear check in this game as you are right, you can't outgear the bosses.

I also think the raid section of LFG should be modified to better allow for people to queue in specific roles as well as segregate training groups from experienced groups.

I mean showing that someone cleared the raid once shows that1 clear i guess. But then again 30 li show 30kills.

Queing isnt good it wasnt good in wow and it wont add much here. We have lfg and lfmore u can add in the desc what you want so ppl know what you are looking for.

Same aplies for groups a grouo that asks for x li more than lets say 100 isnt a group that takes new ppl. But if itwasnt too much trouble i can see a training tab being useful.

But training discords are already as useful.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

the elitism is the highest in any game has always been about pve which is the most simplest thing to do. weird lol.

[Grogba.6204]

I wouldn't call it elitism (inb4 someone hits me with a definition for elitism) but rather insurance against time wasted.

[Salicia.5943]

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:the elitism is the highest in any game has always been about pve which is the most simplest thing to do. weird lol.

I wouldn't agree that PvE is the easiest thing to do. Meta bosses still have so many people that down or diedie to a single attack no matter if you are at Vinewrath, Gerent, organization on killing the Octovines at the same time, along with Dragonstand's toilet bowl. Getting people to actually do the Pre's for a world boss and still watching only 20% of the people go kill portals on Shadow Behemoth while the rest just stand there not contributing. GW2 is now to the point where people don't even enjoy playing the game or content or getting better at mechanics, fights, encounters...... list goes on - and only wants the "shiny rewards with minimal effort". This is ruining the game for the majority.

PvE boils down to: How much time did I waste doing this? We failed. I got no rewards. (Which is the reason people do PvE)PvP normally is about how many matches you won and how much fun you had fighting those other opponents. You only get double pips or rewards if you win but nothing game breaking or time wasting unless it's the match before you hit Platinum. Exp and pips are gained by just participating.WvW you roam around and work with your world for hours trying to capture as many land positions and then get to push a keep or end up in a zerg fight which again you don't get an amazing reward for winning said things besides bags of materials which you can get anywhere... and exp and pips are gained by just participating.

So it seems to me like failing in PvE is the only one that players get upset over because you don't lose material by failing at the others.

[zealex.9410]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:the elitism is the highest in any game has always been about pve which is the most simplest thing to do. weird lol.

Not necessarily, in alot of cases sure you will face harder foes than the ai but in alot of cases the ai is flat out harder to deal with than some ppl.

[Xca.9721]

I got +1 dhuum kp the last 4 weeks, but idc anymore cause i got voice in the void

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@Lexani.6152 said:Pug groups should be pug groups, without any dps meters or KPs as proofs. It's called pug group. If you want trusted players, make your constant team. Many top raiders are running with CPs. This kind of checking if player is skilled or newbie is just sad in GW2. GW should be equal to everyone. I know many players who would do raids better on their first time than those on their 100th.

I think the problem is more that there aren't many people who let run someone with them for a try so it is really hard to get into it when everyone wants a KP proof.Besides this it is silly because most of the KPs you can spend for something. I personally don't care about raids at the moment but at some point I want to try some fractal cms and there they all want Kp's

[Vinceman.4572]

@"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:I personally don't care about raids at the moment but at some point I want to try some fractal cms and there they all want Kp's

That's why you should open your own LFG with your own requirements a.k.a. "0 KPs" or "cm training". And don't expect to accomplish the fractal! The KPs are there for a reason. I helped several groups to get through 99 and 100 CM and every other experienced fractal cm player will agree with me here that it can be a pain in the axx to be successful with beginners. Sometimes they won't make it.Yes, there are groups low manning those fracs and could easily carry you but your part in that group would be laying dead on the ground and watch them playing. So you wouldn't learn anything. Groups with KPs usually (there are exceptions of course) know what they are doing - why and when and they heavily differ in terms of skill - mechanic and dps wise. A lot of us are also using specific buff food for certain bosses, different sigils like impact or serpent slaying. Switching trait lines is also a common practice as well as changing specs (atm. core warri <> spellbreaker). Trust me you don't want to start in such a highly optimized environment because you need to be on a level which you can't achieve as starter.The start will be hard and you should take your time to get your first 5-10 walkthroughs and then you open groups with a kp requirement.