Signet of Vampirism... What?

[killfil.3472]

Ok.Why does it heal when we are struck, and not when we strike?It could simply steal health similarly to its active when we struck, and it would be perfect!Those who say it'd be OP... Why is that? If you keep the 1 second ICD the active has, it wouldnt be, in my opinion.

[Lahmia.2193]

Because only warriors are allowed a good all round passive heal.

[Sephylon.4938]

Coz then it would be too similar to thief heal signet

[Dadnir.5038]

Well...https://imgflip.com/i/273wrw

[killfil.3472]

Understandable.

[Obtena.7952]

I don't get the problem ... You want the passive to work just like the active, except all the time? Why would anyone ever activate it then?

The way it works now, you can choose how you want it to work.

It suspect it also has something to do with the concept of the class. Anet seems to like the idea that Necros steal other people's life vs. just healing themselves.

[MoonCrash.6713]

The passive heals you even when you get kietd and you are not able to attack so it's better. The active would heal you when you don't get attacked, but in that case you wouldn't need as much healing right? So there's no doubt on that. The only good thing about your change would be the improved dps due to life stealing, but doesn't fit signet of vampirism because it's an healing skill.

[Lahmia.2193]

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't get the problem ... You want the passive to work just like the active, except all the time? Why would anyone ever activate it then?

The way it works now, you can choose how you want it to work.

It suspect it also has something to do with the concept of the class. Anet seems to like the idea that Necros steal other people's life vs. just healing themselves.

Well the passive would be selfish and the active would be selfless, thus making each good in different situations. Similar to how Warrior's Healing Signet has a great passive and active.

[Subli.8217]

i wish it healed on attack and without ICD like the thief signet. atm its totally useless

[Subli.8217]

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't get the problem ... You want the passive to work just like the active, except all the time? Why would anyone ever activate it then?....to allow other people to heal?

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@"Sublimatio.6981" said:i wish it healed on attack and without ICD like the thief signet. atm its totally useless

I wish the passive just didn't have an ICD. "Heal when hit" isn't awful with current calues when it happens every time you're hit. If nothing else, would definitely make you tankier vs. Mesmers.

[killfil.3472]

@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't get the problem ... You want the passive to work just like the active, except all the time? Why would anyone ever activate it then?....to allow other people to heal?

Yes... Necromancers can heal people.Plus it can do a nice bit of unmitigated damage.

Please use logical answers.

[Obtena.7952]

@MoonCrash.6713 said:The passive heals you even when you get kietd and you are not able to attack so it's better. The active would heal you when you don't get attacked, but in that case you wouldn't need as much healing right? So there's no doubt on that. The only good thing about your change would be the improved dps due to life stealing, but doesn't fit signet of vampirism because it's an healing skill.

Exactly. The way it's implemented now is better. We get to choose when to activate it to take advantage when we are in a good position. There is always discussion to tweak the numbers but if I can choose what the passive does, it's how it's implemented now.

@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't get the problem ... You want the passive to work just like the active, except all the time? Why would anyone ever activate it then?....to allow other people to heal?

So you think the risk/reward profile for the passive/active to work the same way with the 'bonus' to heal others in active mode makes sense to you? That's .... interesting.

[Kumouta.4985]

It would be viable if it didn't have an icd.For now it's just one of the things Anet doesn't seem to care about though.

[Obtena.7952]

@Kumouta.4985 said:It would be viable if it didn't have an icd.For now it's just one of the things Anet doesn't seem to care about though.

I don't think you have given this much thought.

What does the passive do if it has no ICD? It's terribly broken; it's another Engi FT vs. retaliation situation, except it would be permanent and it would also give you heals. WIthout an ICD, it would have to be scaled down significantly ... This is analogous to the recent change on Vampiric Presence. It too was not controlled with and ICD and it too was broken and Anet 'fixed' that. This would be no different.

What does the active do without an ICD? Well, it has the serious potential to a) not heal you if you have a team and b) overheal people that have very frequent attacks.

i would say based on the fact this skill DOES have an ICD ... Anet cares quite a bit.

[Justine.6351]

In functionality for the passive I think this could have its ICD per target but currently this skill is likely ICD for the necro so it would need a complete rework for such a seemingly small change.

A far more friendly option is to remove the ICD and,150 health per hit taken (.1 healing power)Maximum health per second 1000 (.5 healing power)

[Subli.8217]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't get the problem ... You want the passive to work just like the active, except all the time? Why would anyone ever activate it then?....to allow other people to heal?

So you think the risk/reward profile for the passive/active to work the same way with the 'bonus' to heal others in active mode makes sense to you? That's .... interesting.

yeah but imo there shouldn't be a max stack and icd - the buff should last these 5-6 seconds and heal without icd. didn't i mention in my other post that i think this skill is useless? so of course there would have to be balancing done

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Obtena.7952" said:This is analogous to the recent change on Vampiric Presence. It too was not controlled with and ICD and it too was broken and Anet 'fixed' that. This would be no different.

If vampiric presence was broken and anet "fixed" it, then they must have forgotten to "fix" vampiric, that is, according to your logic. In the best of case, the new vampiric presence is just worse in both balance and effect than the previous.

Even, thematically (since I know that you love to argue that professions are designed thematically before everything), and ICD doesn't make any sense. In the case of the vampiric signet, there is no damage on the passive part of the signet, yet it heal, this is a thematical nonsense. Balance wise, the price to pay to gain access to this passive heal is to take a hit, it might be an interesting mechanism but in front of a passive that heal every seconds without any "price" to pay, it is terribly underpowered and thus badly balanced.

Now, you can argue that traited, with the shroud covering you up, this effect become totally imbalance, and I'd gladly agree. However, what is an effect that perform badly in common situation and overly well in others? Granted how you defined vampiric presence, this make the vampiric signet passive effect a broken effect. Thus it's a good thing to point out that this skill is "problematic".

Especially since the effect is both "broken" in how in work and illogical thematically.

[Nimon.7840]

Well if you want to compare it with warriors signet:

Warrior:2320 heal on activation344 heal per second6 seconds of resistance on activation

Necro:3960 heal on activation325 heal per second if getting hit every secondAnd on activation a 6 seconds lasting debuff that may give 6×470= 2820 over 6 seconds.

With the trait i guess it was somewhat like 414 heal passive (gw2skills says its 735 but i think thats a mistake)But the thing is. Noone plays signet trait in spite. The other two are just 5billion times stronger.

And i still think warriors heal is better than necro heal. Even if its numbers go up to 4120 baseheal tomorrow.Why?Because of warriors kit: blocks, invulnerability, good movement-skills.

You can just run away for some time and heal quite a good amount, while necro doesnt get healed.But i wouldnt remove the icd on the passive of necro either. In some scenarios this would be way too overpowered.Well tbh. Not in that many. Mesmers wouldnt be able to oneshot you anymore and same goes for dagger-thiefes. Anything that does many small hits.But right now, that wouldnt be that bad, since most classes wont just do many 1k crits. Instead they do 6-10k crits.

So if you want to remove the icd, you should change the passive in: heal for 5% of the direct dmg taken.But that would actually be a nerf.

If you want a good heal, take scourges barrier one, reapers shout or consume conditions, which gets pretty nuts combined with spiteful renewal (spite traitline)Thats 5200 heal +960 heal =6200

• 720 heal per condition

[Manpag.6421]

Honestly, this skill would be improved MASSIVELY, while still being balanced and thematically appropriate, if the passive heal was just changed to a life siphon. Kind of a constant weaker version of Retaliation with an ICD that discourages people from hitting the necro in competitive modes while marginally boosting DPS in PvE to even faintly compete with Blood Fiend.

[Catchyfx.5768]

I Think this skill Is ok, one thing i wanna change Is cast time...JUST a little bit Faster.

[Rym.1469]

Main issue with SoV passive is that the passive in order to be good requires you to be getting constantly hit (every second). Which is less than ideal and shouldn't be your intention.

Something like tripling the passive heal along with the internal cooldown would make it much better. So instead of healing for x on 1s ICD you would heal for 3x on 3s ICD. That makes SoV easier to get some value off, as getting hit every 3-4 seconds is more natural in PvP (outside of teamfights where both options are more or less equal) and similar situations.

Also, suggestions to make it heal on hit hold some value. But - as it was already mentioned - it copies signet of malice and if we're talking PvE, aren't you using SoV active on CD anyway? Which is, you know, heal on hit.

[Kiroshima.8497]

It'd be better if SoV spent Lifeforce to heal you once per second, and when you activated it, striking the target granted you life force and a siphon.

That way your regen is always on (like a warrior) unless you activate it for burst life force, and it pairs well with spectrals (and signet of undeath). It would be most powerful on Core Necro, who doesn't use as much life force compared to the other 2 specs.

[Anchoku.8142]

I think the mechanics of SoV are fine. The numbers could be increased but SoV also has a short CD. It was introduced back in Season 1 as part of our awesome group support package, iirc.

[Obtena.7952]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:This is analogous to the recent change on Vampiric Presence. It too was not controlled with and ICD and it too was broken and Anet 'fixed' that. This would be no different.

If

vampiric presence

was broken and anet "fixed" it, then they must have forgotten to "fix"

vampiric

, that is, according to your logic. In the best of case, the new

vampiric presence

is just worse in both balance and effect than the previous.

Even, thematically (since I know that you love to argue that professions are designed thematically before everything), and ICD doesn't make any sense. In the case of the vampiric signet, there is no damage on the passive part of the signet, yet it heal, this is a thematical nonsense. Balance wise, the price to pay to gain access to this passive heal is to take a hit, it might be an interesting mechanism but in front of a passive that heal every seconds without any "price" to pay, it is terribly underpowered and thus badly balanced.

Now, you can argue that traited, with the shroud covering you up, this effect become totally imbalance, and I'd gladly agree. However, what is an effect that perform badly in common situation and overly well in others? Granted how you defined

vampiric presence

, this make the vampiric signet passive effect a broken effect. Thus it's a good thing to point out that this skill is "problematic".

Especially since the effect is both "broken" in how in work and illogical thematically.

Maybe ... but that doesn't change the fact that if VP get an ICD ... it doesn't make sense for anet to remove the ICD on Signet; they are the same effect and work very similar. Clearly, ICD's are favoured for such things. Besides, as I've already explained, Signet without ICD is not actually going to work better. You might not even get healed with the stack at all if the ICD is removed on Active. In passive, not having an ICD is just stupid; there is no counterplay to hitting someone with a permanent life siphon on hit.

If anything, it's simply a numbers tweak on SoV. How it works is well-thought out.