Full Counter hits way too hard

[FtoPScrub.5476]

Full counter isn't the problem - rousing resilience is. Fighting a warrior on a power spec without being able to use CC allows him to train the shit out of you and you're simply not going to win that facetank matchup.

[Kageseigi.2150]

@otto.5684 said:And no skill should be a block, a daze, copy 3 condis, has a 300 aoe, deal damage and be on a kitten 12 sec CD.

Hmm, can Basilisk Venom get a 12 second CD or any of the above? It is an elite utility, after all. I'd be happy to get rid of the venom share... especially since the stun doesn't stack.

[OriOri.8724]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:One other piece that others haven't mentioned is that FC really only hits hard if:

1. It crits
2. You have high stacks of Attacker's Insight.

So even if you do end up procing full counter, its damage can be minimized by avoiding other key warrior attacks, such as the GS F1 for fury and the dagger F1/#3/#4 for boon rip (which gives attacker's insight).

Easier said than done in team fights, but the in a smaller fight scenario you can still outplay the warrior by avoiding certain abilities other than FC (if you struggle to bait out FC)

The unblockable daze, which has heavy synergy with the rest of the spellbreaker line, is the issue, not the damage. Its a fundamentally broken design that up to 5 people can get hit with an unblockable daze because any of the following reasons:

• Another player messed up and hit FC
• There was an pulsing AoE on the ground (literally nothing we can do to stop the SB from just walking into it)
• There was any AI class in the fight (1/3 of all classes mind you)

The daze should only affect the person that procs FC

@Odik.4587 A defender can be summoned 6 times back to back currently, its not exactly comparable to FC.

Agreed there are other parts of FC that make it strong...but the post was about the damage itself, so that is what I commented on.

That's fair. Too often though in discussions about FC I see warrior mains get hung up on the damage aspect and insist that the skill is fine as it is, so I always like to point out that the damage is definitely not the issue.

[mortrialus.3062]

Full counter is perfectly fine. If any one aspect of Spellbreaker needs to be looked at its their ability to endlessly stall out a fight all game long like we saw in the mist champions tounament. Spellbreakers should be sustaining for a while but a Spellbreaker vs spellbreaker should eventually have a winner.

[Mutaatti.2789]

@Conscript.3657 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:and if your not attacking war, he simply heal itself ... gg reward for mindless gameplay

Yes he will heal for a total of around 600 health during that time. I'm sure 1 auto attack from you after Full Counter wears off will fix that

How about we make a little tweak: it doesnt give you stability and heal, if it hits only illusions or pets? So you only have to dodge FC and you're off the hook.

[Brother.1504]

Full Counter is supposed to be punishing. It’s not called “Bouncy Puppies Give Some Luvs.”

[mortrialus.3062]

@Brother.1504 said:Full Counter is supposed to be punishing. It’s not called “Bouncy Puppies Give Some Luvs.”

On that note can we please nerf ranger's Bouncy Puppies Give Some Luvs skill? It hits way to hard on druid.

[Vova.2640]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Vova.2640 said:I couple nights ago in wvw, I used a meteor shower into an enemy zerg and got hit for 11k with full counter.Fun stuff.

Let it be forever enshrined in this thread that a staff elementalist casted a three second attack into a zerg in wvw, close enough to himself that he could be crit by a warrior using full counter.

You were already dead my guy. Warrior or not.

???It was basically a max range meteor shower on top of an enemy zerg to pressure downs.I don't even know where the warrior was all I know is I got insta-down, looked into my combat log and I see an 11k full counter.

[bLind.6278]

Even if the skill did 3k dmg max on crits people would still complain about it because they're too stupid to either a) not attack into it or b) not dodge after they trigger it. If your teammates are triggering FC in a teamfight, no excuse, a warrior can't reliably outsustain burst damage in a teamfight, only only has EP to prevent being destroyed.

If a warrior is turning the tide of a teamfight, he's likely better than you, regardless of whether FC hits or not. Virtually all of a warrior's strengths revolve around dueling.

[Vagrant.7206]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:One other piece that others haven't mentioned is that FC really only hits hard if:

1. It crits
2. You have high stacks of Attacker's Insight.

So even if you do end up procing full counter, its damage can be minimized by avoiding other key warrior attacks, such as the GS F1 for fury and the dagger F1/#3/#4 for boon rip (which gives attacker's insight).

Easier said than done in team fights, but the in a smaller fight scenario you can still outplay the warrior by avoiding certain abilities other than FC (if you struggle to bait out FC)

The unblockable daze, which has heavy synergy with the rest of the spellbreaker line, is the issue, not the damage. Its a fundamentally broken design that up to 5 people can get hit with an unblockable daze because any of the following reasons:

• Another player messed up and hit FC
• There was an pulsing AoE on the ground (literally nothing we can do to stop the SB from just walking into it)
• There was any AI class in the fight (1/3 of all classes mind you)

The daze should only affect the person that procs FC

@Odik.4587 A defender can be summoned 6 times back to back currently, its not exactly comparable to FC.

100% agreed. The damage isn't actually all that bad in perspective, it's everything else that FC does that's problematic. An unblockable AoE daze and condi transfer? For every other class, that's usually an elite skill (Basilisk Venom, Prime Light Beam, etc). Only exception would be DH longbow 3 when traited, which I'm also not a fan of. But DH longbow has much lower damage potential than a warrior in melee range too.

[KrHome.1920]

Full Counter is fine. If you hit it, you can dodge it, so you have two chances to avoid it (1. don't hit into it! If you or your teammate did, then 2. dodge it). The telegraph is fair.

Spellbreaker is fine in PvP. It's not fine in WvW due to overpowered Endure/Defy Pain.

I play Reaper, which relies heavily on an 8 (!) second lasting AOE (Nightfall). This is an invitation to a Full Counter. And I am still saying Full COunter is not the problem here.

[Virelion.4128]

Problem with warrior is not only full counter but fact that they can go almost full zerker with ability to still be extremally tanky.

Also full counter can be triggered by everything in this game. Despite having very good animation in terma of visibility this animation is getting bugged a lot which makes warrior visible as infinite full counter.

[Math.5123]

The only issue I still have with it if the animation being stuck for entire games which makes it nigh impossible to spot it, aside from looking at the buff bar. But you don't want your eyes glued to someone's buffs.

[Obindo.6802]

It's ridiculous that people try and defend full counter

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

FC is annoying as hell ONLY because of friendly procing the damn skill. sometimes it can not be hel like the warrior running into necro aor or mesmer clones, but a lot of the time its people tunnel visioned into spamming skills then sulk when they get a 6k+ FC

[mbp.1693]

FC should only hit people that actually hit the warr, and in case no one activated it, it should go in a 20 sec cool down

[Jalal.6783]

Wanted to delete comment. Didn't know how so this is the next best thing i could think of.

[Kiritodatrth.1548]

FC is fine... Better than that, FC is the best ability developed in GW2, whoever developed it deserves a reward... It mimics the real fight... As an ex competitor in Martial arts that's the closest we get from a real eviroment... Same can be said from the block on GS ranger or block on sword OH Mesmer... You really have to think and not spam all the numbers... Try to spam technics in a jiu jitsu fight and see where it ends...I agree that the FC being applied to War is the right way to go... I would just love to see similar abilities for other classes like necro, thief, Eles... Maybe not as powerful as war (cause it's a specialization burst) but something that makes ppl think before press all their buttons... Ppl just complain cause they are not used to it... We need more of FC like skills not less

[Brother.1504]

@Obindo.6802 said:It's ridiculous that people try and defend full counter

I resemble that remark!!

[otto.5684]

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:FC is fine... Better than that, FC is the best ability developed in GW2, whoever developed it deserves a reward... It mimics the real fight... As an ex competitor in Martial arts that's the closest we get from a real eviroment... Same can be said from the block on GS ranger or block on sword OH Mesmer... You really have to think and not spam all the numbers... Try to spam technics in a jiu jitsu fight and see where it ends...I agree that the FC being applied to War is the right way to go... I would just love to see similar abilities for other classes like necro, thief, Eles... Maybe not as powerful as war (cause it's a specialization burst) but something that makes ppl think before press all their buttons... Ppl just complain cause they are not used to it... We need more of FC like skills not less

Sure. I main guardian, I want my FC. on trigger it does a 300 aoe: aegis to 5 allies, removes 2 condi, similar damage and 3 stacks of burning. On 12 sec CD of course and unblockable of course.

It is broken, so instead of fixing it let’s break it all the way.

Thanks

[Xca.9721]

You guys realize that full counter only deals additional damage, transfers conditions and gives resistance by using the major grandmaster trait? And it has to be procced of course. Besides Spellbreaker hits like a wet noodle, the rampage skills have an obvious tell and can be easily avoided.

Btw I dont play spellbreaker myself anymore cause its fucking boring. Warrior in general is fucking boring since they removed berserker from spvp.

[Mutaatti.2789]

@Xca.9721 said:You guys realize that full counter only deals additional damage, transfers conditions and gives resistance by using the major grandmaster trait? And it has to be procced of course. Besides Spellbreaker hits like a wet noodle, the rampage skills have an obvious tell and can be easily avoided.

Btw I dont play spellbreaker myself anymore cause its kitten boring. Warrior in general is kitten boring since they removed berserker from spvp.

1. The only grandmaster trait useful in PvP.
2. It can be procced by AoE, clone, pet, projectile fired 2 secs ago, NPC (lord, beast) just about anything.
3. Rampage skills are easy to tell.
4. You said it yourself. You dont play warrior anymore, because it's boring. Boring because it's so easy against lower level players to 1v1 or even bunker 1v2.

Warrior shouldn't be unkillable 1v1 bunker. Otherwise team with 2 best warriors win everytime. (Talking about tourneys).

[Dralor.3701]

Toning down the damage is reasonable, sounds like a lot of people want it gutted which is not super reasonable.

[Skittledness.5106]

Anet if u remove this because plebs r dumb I'll get sad

[OriOri.8724]

@Xca.9721 said:You guys realize that full counter only deals additional damage, transfers conditions and gives resistance by using the major grandmaster trait? And it has to be procced of course. Besides Spellbreaker hits like a wet noodle, the rampage skills have an obvious tell and can be easily avoided.

Btw I dont play spellbreaker myself anymore cause its kitten boring. Warrior in general is kitten boring since they removed berserker from spvp.

You do realize that its the unblockable AoE daze that can be procced simply by walking into an AoE that is the problem, not hte damage, right? You don't have to trait it to get that unblockable daze