Is there a point to Scourge anymore?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180 · July 22, 2018

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:
@Sephylon.4938 said:
You could trade off the F2 corruption for the spite trait line and go with Spiteful Spirit and convert 2-4 boons with each F5.2-4? Last checked it was only 2. Also that doesn't proc on shade location, you'd have to be right beside them to corrupt anything with that while giving up torment on fear, and the sustain on parasitic.

I believe it's 4 on players under 50% health without looking it up.

This is correct.

Sephylon.4938 · July 22, 2018

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:
@Sephylon.4938 said:
You could trade off the F2 corruption for the spite trait line and go with Spiteful Spirit and convert 2-4 boons with each F5.2-4? Last checked it was only 2. Also that doesn't proc on shade location, you'd have to be right beside them to corrupt anything with that while giving up torment on fear, and the sustain on parasitic.

I believe it's 4 on players under 50% health without looking it up.

Didn't know that, thought it just used the old version of unholy feast

Nimon.7840 · July 23, 2018

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:
@Lahmia.2193 said:
@Spurnshadow.3678 said:Nourishing ashes, remove a boon when you inflict burning

Nourishing ashes grants 5% life force whenever you remove/corrupt a boon or inflict burning.

OK, I'll stand corrected on that as I've never actually tested it. Just going off the tool tip. They need to learn the difference between and and or. Even if you take that out, Scourge still does a kitten ton of corruption.

Not really. It's one corrupted boon on F1, one well of corruption and that's it. Almost noone plays curses anymore in wvw

And i see noone running corrupt boon. The corruption from punishments isn't mentionable as they are all very short range

mazut.4296 · July 23, 2018

It's still decent support for fractals :D

ProtoGunner.4953 · July 23, 2018

Yeah, play the game and don't whine around.

Player.9621 · July 23, 2018

i get why pve people wouldnt like it but as for wvw i think any problem someone might have there is misinformation about how to set it up

Spurnshadow.3678 · July 23, 2018

@Nimon.7840 said:
@Spurnshadow.3678 said:
@Lahmia.2193 said:
@Spurnshadow.3678 said:Nourishing ashes, remove a boon when you inflict burning

Nourishing ashes grants 5% life force whenever you remove/corrupt a boon or inflict burning.

OK, I'll stand corrected on that as I've never actually tested it. Just going off the tool tip. They need to learn the difference between and and or. Even if you take that out, Scourge still does a kitten ton of corruption.

Not really. It's one corrupted boon on F1, one well of corruption and that's it. Almost noone plays curses anymore in wvw

And i see noone running corrupt boon. The corruption from punishments isn't mentionable as they are all very short range

Dunno what server you play on, but most people use all punishment skills except well of corruption. Your punishment skills should hit a maximum amount of players when used properly. 300 radius is pretty big,. Serpent siphon is a range skill too. Who is not using Ghastly Breach? Pulsing boon corruption? Yes, please. Well of corruption converts a boon with every pulse plus the initial cast, not just 1. That's a lot of boon corruption. I never said anyone runs corrupt boon. Almost every condi necro is going to run curses. Power or hybrid builds might run spite for the extra boon corruption with F5. You could choose Close to Death, but then you're loosing boon corruption.

Maybe you or your experience is with guilds that insist on scourges run backline. That's just dumb. You're loosing most of your dps that way as your F skills center around you and your shade. Most good groups have their scourges closer to the commander so they can give the frontline barrier, might, and cleansing conditions and destroy anyone in melee range with Ghastly Breach and F5 and use your shades for the mid/backline. So your punishment skills that center on you will hit 5 people and convert their boons.

ZDragon.3046 · July 23, 2018

@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.
Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.
Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with
Holosmith
which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:
Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.
ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.
So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

Correction i love necro i dislike scourge's mechanics and how bland they are not once did i say scourge should be nerfed into the ground.

You can twist it how ever you want to but fact is scourge is basic, non dynamic, and was litterally over loaded from the top down rather than necro core having a strong base to be built upon. The creators of scourge took a completely different design path that turned out to be a disaster to balance and for that you cant blame other players.

If fact the

"people"

you are talking about are the ones who repeatedly got killed by 1 shot scourge for a month and fought teams of 2-3 scourges at a time in pvp while not using scourge. Those

"people"

are the ones you have anything to thank for the complaints of scourge. Not once in my above statement did I ever call it

"OP"

it was bugged yes and that made it stronger than intended.

Do not fault me for reaper either with your negativity.I actually liked the old version of deathly chill more and always pulled for it it was one of the best things reaper had and thematically it was a golden trait. <3I also never pulled for the removal of reapers sustain and continue to play reaper to this day.

So before you use the words

"People like you"

get your facts straight.

Its the developers fault for leaving scourge bugged for over a month that people dislike it with a passion.It could literally drop a shade and melt any profession in the game instantly. How this was not a priority balance fix I'll never know but its not the player base's fault.

I understand some people love the current version of scourge but we will see how long that last fact of the matter is non scourge players dont like it and that accounts for a larger portion of the community. As a result anet has to listen because what you dont do is let one profession or its e spec ruin the game for the majority. Thats a foolish and ridiculous choice to make if you want the game to continue to live.

As i even said " I want scourge to be something good but its current design will likely

"never"

be good because its mechanics are too basic to balance in a way that scourge user will feel satisfied with and non scourge players wont feel is too powerful. Either they will be too weak for scourge players but balanced for others or they will feel good for scourge players and be too strong for others. Thats what happen when your main mechanic is 2 basic a indestructible aoe's (one of which moves with the caster while the other can be repositioned when the caster chooses.) The mechanic needs to be 1 or the other and be more dynamic so that it has more counters than just attacking from range.

I dont know why im even bothering to argue this with you. You are in the group that felt it was good to have a

"support"

spec dealing more damage than brusier and damage carry specs. Your logic is so twisted.

They never said Scourge was "full support", they just implied had access to decent support , not that couldnt deal decent dps. Scourge was implied to have actual DECENT dps since it had to "sacrifice" "shroud health pool" for them(for them i mean support and dps). Also you say that some scourge mechanics are very strong for others but it seems you forgot that necro has no blocks, no evades, to teleports, no mobility, no sustain, or just very subpar compared to other classes, hence the "strong dps" was very justified. Maybe some of the scourge mechanics were too busted, they needed to be toned down but now its too much. Delay on scourge aoe was already a pretty significant nerf then they destroy SS (100% recharge is just bad balance lel pacing of scourge was destroyed) and dhumfire too?it seems that necro cant be OBJECTIVELY competitive unless for necro you mean just a corrupt bot lol

None of what you really just pointed out invalidates my statement.No specs of necro have any of the things you listed but you dont see reaper doing one shot damage or core necro doing insta melting conditions or one shot damage either.So on a profession that has half or part of its role dictated to support why should it be doing more damage than specs that are designed to be damage carries / bruisers?

Regardless of how you twist this im not saying scourge cant have damage that was never the argument. Scourges mechanics are basic and because of that it makes them harder to balance without making them always be too weak or always bee too strong. People that dont play necro or dont like scourge will never like the current version of scourge and thats just how it is. Deal with it.

I already told you you dont let 1 profession ruin the fun for the majority of players which is what scourge was doing anet has no choice but to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal how ever that likely wont happen the moment a strong build emerges for scourge its going to result in the core mechanics being nerfed when used in conjunction with the scourge line.

Path of corruption
DhummfireWhy do you think this keeps happening its not simply because some one like me does not find scourge very interesting, creative, or fun to play as / against. ITs because the stuff is over baring to the majority of other players.

ZDragon.3046 · July 23, 2018

@"Aslakh.3072" said:Scourge is not basic, is more dynamic than reaper and was noticeably bugged overloading it.Scourge was literally buffed after removing the sand stacking+dhuumfire nerf because it was too weak. The design disaster was that they thought the sand savant trait, a trait that did not match the theme was balanced in pvp capture points and that turning all the punishments into even more corrupts was a good idea.

I disagree with you.I think if your main mechanic is dropping an aoe on the floor and having it proc on yourself an that spot thats pretty non dynamic. No matter what traits you slot the base skill functions the same way with one or two extras topped onto it. Dynamic would be something more like daredevil dodges... even holosmith is more dynamic with the wait its traits work.

With scourge everything functions around 1 thing "Manifest Sand Shade" and people wonder why this skill and any traits related to it keep getting cut down its the most problematic skill scourge has and its 90% of what makes scourge a scourge.

And scourge has not seen a buff sense launch what buff are you talking about? Every patch just about has been a reduction in some way or another the only thing thats changed is the build people choose to work with thats not a buff thats just a change in the meta. As strong things continue to be found with scourge they will continued be nerfed when used with scourge because thats how people feel about it.

People are never not going to not have a complaint about scourge so long as something strong exist with the current way its mechanics function. Thats the scar its left on people from being bugged for a month.

Luca.4670 · July 23, 2018

@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.
Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.
Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with
Holosmith
which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:
Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.
ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.
So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

Correction i love necro i dislike scourge's mechanics and how bland they are not once did i say scourge should be nerfed into the ground.

You can twist it how ever you want to but fact is scourge is basic, non dynamic, and was litterally over loaded from the top down rather than necro core having a strong base to be built upon. The creators of scourge took a completely different design path that turned out to be a disaster to balance and for that you cant blame other players.

If fact the

"people"

you are talking about are the ones who repeatedly got killed by 1 shot scourge for a month and fought teams of 2-3 scourges at a time in pvp while not using scourge. Those

"people"

are the ones you have anything to thank for the complaints of scourge. Not once in my above statement did I ever call it

"OP"

it was bugged yes and that made it stronger than intended.

Do not fault me for reaper either with your negativity.I actually liked the old version of deathly chill more and always pulled for it it was one of the best things reaper had and thematically it was a golden trait. <3I also never pulled for the removal of reapers sustain and continue to play reaper to this day.

So before you use the words

"People like you"

get your facts straight.

Its the developers fault for leaving scourge bugged for over a month that people dislike it with a passion.It could literally drop a shade and melt any profession in the game instantly. How this was not a priority balance fix I'll never know but its not the player base's fault.

I understand some people love the current version of scourge but we will see how long that last fact of the matter is non scourge players dont like it and that accounts for a larger portion of the community. As a result anet has to listen because what you dont do is let one profession or its e spec ruin the game for the majority. Thats a foolish and ridiculous choice to make if you want the game to continue to live.

As i even said " I want scourge to be something good but its current design will likely

"never"

be good because its mechanics are too basic to balance in a way that scourge user will feel satisfied with and non scourge players wont feel is too powerful. Either they will be too weak for scourge players but balanced for others or they will feel good for scourge players and be too strong for others. Thats what happen when your main mechanic is 2 basic a indestructible aoe's (one of which moves with the caster while the other can be repositioned when the caster chooses.) The mechanic needs to be 1 or the other and be more dynamic so that it has more counters than just attacking from range.

I dont know why im even bothering to argue this with you. You are in the group that felt it was good to have a

"support"

spec dealing more damage than brusier and damage carry specs. Your logic is so twisted.

They never said Scourge was "full support", they just implied had access to decent support , not that couldnt deal decent dps. Scourge was implied to have actual DECENT dps since it had to "sacrifice" "shroud health pool" for them(for them i mean support and dps). Also you say that some scourge mechanics are very strong for others but it seems you forgot that necro has no blocks, no evades, to teleports, no mobility, no sustain, or just very subpar compared to other classes, hence the "strong dps" was very justified. Maybe some of the scourge mechanics were too busted, they needed to be toned down but now its too much. Delay on scourge aoe was already a pretty significant nerf then they destroy SS (100% recharge is just bad balance lel pacing of scourge was destroyed) and dhumfire too?it seems that necro cant be OBJECTIVELY competitive unless for necro you mean just a corrupt bot lol

None of what you really just pointed out invalidates my statement.No specs of necro have any of the things you listed but you dont see reaper doing one shot damage or core necro doing insta melting conditions or one shot damage either.So on a profession that has half or part of its role dictated to support why should it be doing more damage than specs that are designed to be damage carries / bruisers?

Regardless of how you twist this im not saying scourge cant have damage that was never the argument. Scourges mechanics are basic and because of that it makes them harder to balance without making them always be too weak or always bee too strong. People that dont play necro or dont like scourge will never like the current version of scourge and thats just how it is. Deal with it.

I already told you you dont let 1 profession ruin the fun for the majority of players which is what scourge was doing anet has no choice but to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal how ever that likely wont happen the moment a strong build emerges for scourge its going to result in the core mechanics being nerfed when used in conjunction with the scourge line.

Path of corruption
DhummfireWhy do you think this keeps happening its not simply because some one like me does not find scourge very interesting, creative, or fun to play as / against. ITs because the stuff is over baring to the majority of other players.

Man are you serious or you just like to throw random BS? Have you ever played competitive with scourge?maybe against good/experienced players? Scourge "dps" was JUSTIFIED around the fact that it had to sacrifice the "Shroud", the fact that necro has no sustain, no evades, no block, little access to boons, no insta teleport (overall poor active defenses) and the fact that Anet wanted necro to be a class specialized around area of control (you cant rework Scourge unless anet changes idea about the necromancer class should be). I'm sick of explaining scourge stuff over and over again. If you cant understand what I mean then it just means you never played scourge competitive and you have NO RIGHT to talk about scourge balance. Oh i dont give a crap about ppl that dont like scourge. You dont like it? DEAL WITH IT. Dont piss players that actually play it. Why ppl that never played scourge or necro in general has any right to influence my gameplay? There were indeed better ways to balance it without even touching core necro stuff.Also "anet has no choice to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal" this statement is absolutely stupid cause YOU CANT BALANCE A CLASS AROUND COMPLAINTS. Class must be balanced about OBJECTIVE facts, ppl that actually play it, not SUBJECTIVE "opinions" which most of them comes from trash players lol. Core necro was nerfed cause Anet nerfed scourge "around complaints". So Anet had several choices. Balance scourge properly around ppl that play it at decent levels or balance it around the negative perception of the elite spec.Last thing, I have to specify also is: what happened to Scourge also happened to Necro class in general to a lesser degree, in these years of gw2. Do you remember first dhumfire?(to have it necro got plenty of nerfs that didnt get reverted lol) Remember what happened to Terror necro? Oh also your beloved Reaper lol. Plenty of players complained abour reaper (mostly around the first Deathly Chill trait), although was already balanced when it came out, cause players didnt want to learn how to fight it" lol. See the pattern here? everytime necro get something competitive Anet destroy it cause just PLEASES complaints of some random scrubs (same treatment was/is also reserved to other classes like mesmer and ele, thief lol). After this post i hope i dont have to write this wall of text anymore to explain stuff to someone that appears to be a very casual player.

ZDragon.3046 · July 23, 2018

@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.
Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.
Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with
Holosmith
which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:
Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.
ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.
So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

Correction i love necro i dislike scourge's mechanics and how bland they are not once did i say scourge should be nerfed into the ground.

You can twist it how ever you want to but fact is scourge is basic, non dynamic, and was litterally over loaded from the top down rather than necro core having a strong base to be built upon. The creators of scourge took a completely different design path that turned out to be a disaster to balance and for that you cant blame other players.

If fact the

"people"

you are talking about are the ones who repeatedly got killed by 1 shot scourge for a month and fought teams of 2-3 scourges at a time in pvp while not using scourge. Those

"people"

are the ones you have anything to thank for the complaints of scourge. Not once in my above statement did I ever call it

"OP"

it was bugged yes and that made it stronger than intended.

Do not fault me for reaper either with your negativity.I actually liked the old version of deathly chill more and always pulled for it it was one of the best things reaper had and thematically it was a golden trait. <3I also never pulled for the removal of reapers sustain and continue to play reaper to this day.

So before you use the words

"People like you"

get your facts straight.

Its the developers fault for leaving scourge bugged for over a month that people dislike it with a passion.It could literally drop a shade and melt any profession in the game instantly. How this was not a priority balance fix I'll never know but its not the player base's fault.

I understand some people love the current version of scourge but we will see how long that last fact of the matter is non scourge players dont like it and that accounts for a larger portion of the community. As a result anet has to listen because what you dont do is let one profession or its e spec ruin the game for the majority. Thats a foolish and ridiculous choice to make if you want the game to continue to live.

As i even said " I want scourge to be something good but its current design will likely

"never"

be good because its mechanics are too basic to balance in a way that scourge user will feel satisfied with and non scourge players wont feel is too powerful. Either they will be too weak for scourge players but balanced for others or they will feel good for scourge players and be too strong for others. Thats what happen when your main mechanic is 2 basic a indestructible aoe's (one of which moves with the caster while the other can be repositioned when the caster chooses.) The mechanic needs to be 1 or the other and be more dynamic so that it has more counters than just attacking from range.

I dont know why im even bothering to argue this with you. You are in the group that felt it was good to have a

"support"

spec dealing more damage than brusier and damage carry specs. Your logic is so twisted.

They never said Scourge was "full support", they just implied had access to decent support , not that couldnt deal decent dps. Scourge was implied to have actual DECENT dps since it had to "sacrifice" "shroud health pool" for them(for them i mean support and dps). Also you say that some scourge mechanics are very strong for others but it seems you forgot that necro has no blocks, no evades, to teleports, no mobility, no sustain, or just very subpar compared to other classes, hence the "strong dps" was very justified. Maybe some of the scourge mechanics were too busted, they needed to be toned down but now its too much. Delay on scourge aoe was already a pretty significant nerf then they destroy SS (100% recharge is just bad balance lel pacing of scourge was destroyed) and dhumfire too?it seems that necro cant be OBJECTIVELY competitive unless for necro you mean just a corrupt bot lol

None of what you really just pointed out invalidates my statement.No specs of necro have any of the things you listed but you dont see reaper doing one shot damage or core necro doing insta melting conditions or one shot damage either.So on a profession that has half or part of its role dictated to support why should it be doing more damage than specs that are designed to be damage carries / bruisers?

Regardless of how you twist this im not saying scourge cant have damage that was never the argument. Scourges mechanics are basic and because of that it makes them harder to balance without making them always be too weak or always bee too strong. People that dont play necro or dont like scourge will never like the current version of scourge and thats just how it is. Deal with it.

I already told you you dont let 1 profession ruin the fun for the majority of players which is what scourge was doing anet has no choice but to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal how ever that likely wont happen the moment a strong build emerges for scourge its going to result in the core mechanics being nerfed when used in conjunction with the scourge line.

Path of corruption
DhummfireWhy do you think this keeps happening its not simply because some one like me does not find scourge very interesting, creative, or fun to play as / against. ITs because the stuff is over baring to the majority of other players.

Man are you serious or you just like to throw random BS? Have you ever played competitive with scourge?maybe against good/experienced players? Scourge "dps" was JUSTIFIED around the fact that it had to sacrifice the "Shroud", the fact that necro has no sustain, no evades, no block, little access to boons, no insta teleport (overall poor active defenses) and the fact that Anet wanted necro to be a class specialized around area of control (you cant rework Scourge unless anet changes idea about the necromancer class should be).ummm noScourge damage at release was 100% far from justified if thats the case why couldnt reaper do such sheer amounts of damage from melee range in the same or less time?Every spec of necro has the roughly the same amount of sustain, evades, no block, and little access to boons. Yet this thing called scourge ( a support ) i might add has the right to deal more damage than reaper a brusier high damage dealing spec? You are funny.

Even at release and beta testing reaper didnt have that kind of power infact nothing short of mesmer had the kind of power scourge did with that bug in guildwars 2 history. Even on mesmer things have been in flux due to complaints about it. Generally every profession will get complained about but a sudden majority of people flock to a profession thats all running the same build and 1 shotting everything it touches and large number of people at the same time are crying out a bout it then yes... there is a problem.

I'm sick of explaining scourge stuff over and over again. If you cant understand what I mean then it just means you never played scourge competitive and you have NO RIGHT to talk about scourge balance. Oh i dont give a crap about ppl that dont like scourge. You dont like it? DEAL WITH IT. Dont kitten players that actually play it. Why ppl that never played scourge or necro in general has any right to influence my gameplay? There were indeed better ways to balance it without even touching core necro stuff.Dont assume things you know what they say about assuming.Do note i did say that i have played it not that "i have never played it" as a main necromancer player i do feel i have to right to speak on the specs regardless of if i like them or not. Personally if they dont change it and it continues to get nerfed its not going to hurt my feelings. That said i wont say scourge deserves to be nerfed but im simply pointing out facts based on whats changed thus far and the complaints i see form non scourge players as well as what i experience fighting them.

Allow me to ask you something how is it you have the right to tell me that i have no right to speak on a subject based on my own experice from which you clearly have not read? In fact it feels like you are typing a responce purely out of nothing more than anger or possibly passion for a spec that you enjoy/ enjoyed... If you want to have a conversation calm yourself a bit because you are taking this from 100 to 110 and its really not worth going the extra mile.

Also "anet has no choice to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal" this statement is absolutely stupid cause YOU CANT BALANCE A CLASS AROUND COMPLAINTS. Class must be balanced about OBJECTIVE facts, ppl that actually play it, not SUBJECTIVE "opinions" which most of them comes from trash players lol. Core necro was nerfed cause Anet nerfed scourge "around complaints". So Anet had several choices. Balance scourge properly around ppl that play it at decent levels or balance it around the negative perception of the elite spec.

First off let me tell you scourge at release was anything but skillful you literally dropped a shade under some one unless they saw you coming or had godly reaction time and the right set up there was nothing they could do about it. like it or not, necro player or not, experienced competitive or not, THAT was not fun for the majority.

YOU DONT

let a single problem profession ruin the game for the majority ( i dont care what the spec is)
ignore the majority of the community
allow teams to stack 3-4 scourges continuously game after game on both teams in competitive play and think its not an issue.

Objective facts were,

scourge was doing more damage from range than most melee professions could in a instant
scourge had insta melting conditions which anet has adressed they dont want to be a thing
people were complaining to the extent that it must mean something is imblanced

If anet could have chosen a better way to balance it we will never know but the facts are scourge was bugged and doing far too much. The bug was fixed and scourge apparently some how was still doing too much. So it got nerfed again and you know what complaints still came do you know why that might be?

FactIf you allow something to get under peoples skin for a month and it makes the game unenjoyable and that one thing happens to be a single profession espec. People will continue to dislike that e spec almost regardless of what changes are done to it to reduce its effective power. Its not your fault and its not mine but its how these things are so you sir... should... "Deal with it" thats just how it is. You cant change the past thats Fact you seem to like those so ill throw them back at you.

Last thing, I have to specify also is: what happened to Scourge also happened to Necro class in general to a lesser degree, in these years of gw2. Do you remember first dhumfire?(to have it necro got plenty of nerfs that didnt get reverted lol) Remember what happened to Terror necro? Oh also your beloved Reaper lol. Plenty of players complained abour reaper (mostly around the first Deathly Chill trait), although was already balanced when it came out, cause players didnt want to learn how to fight it" lol. See the pattern here? everytime necro get something competitive Anet destroy it cause just PLEASES complaints of some random scrubs (same treatment was/is also reserved to other classes like mesmer and ele, thief lol). After this post i hope i dont have to write this wall of text anymore to explain stuff to someone that appears to be a very casual player.

What you say here is fact minus the "Random scrubs" part not everyone will be good at the game but your insults are not going to help you here. Yes necro got nerfs time and time again thats Fact and it also simply proves my point that you are more so venting here. I suggest you not vent directly at some one in the future if you have something to get off your chest make a new post here for others to reply and converse with you on. You charged directly at me and thats no way to get you point across.

I dont like core necro or reaper getting nerfed anymore than you do scourge but it happened. How ever core and reaper never had as much threat/kill potential as scourge did upon release. A major shift in meta and complaints has never happened like with scourge before either.

Fun fact. ;)Deathly chill was more so changed due to its interaction in pve by the way not because people didnt want to learn how to fight it. Please make sure you have all the facts clear before you start throwing random things out there.

Luca.4670 · July 23, 2018

@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.
Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.
Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with
Holosmith
which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:
Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.
ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.
So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

Correction i love necro i dislike scourge's mechanics and how bland they are not once did i say scourge should be nerfed into the ground.

You can twist it how ever you want to but fact is scourge is basic, non dynamic, and was litterally over loaded from the top down rather than necro core having a strong base to be built upon. The creators of scourge took a completely different design path that turned out to be a disaster to balance and for that you cant blame other players.

If fact the

"people"

you are talking about are the ones who repeatedly got killed by 1 shot scourge for a month and fought teams of 2-3 scourges at a time in pvp while not using scourge. Those

"people"

are the ones you have anything to thank for the complaints of scourge. Not once in my above statement did I ever call it

"OP"

it was bugged yes and that made it stronger than intended.

Do not fault me for reaper either with your negativity.I actually liked the old version of deathly chill more and always pulled for it it was one of the best things reaper had and thematically it was a golden trait. <3I also never pulled for the removal of reapers sustain and continue to play reaper to this day.

So before you use the words

"People like you"

get your facts straight.

Its the developers fault for leaving scourge bugged for over a month that people dislike it with a passion.It could literally drop a shade and melt any profession in the game instantly. How this was not a priority balance fix I'll never know but its not the player base's fault.

I understand some people love the current version of scourge but we will see how long that last fact of the matter is non scourge players dont like it and that accounts for a larger portion of the community. As a result anet has to listen because what you dont do is let one profession or its e spec ruin the game for the majority. Thats a foolish and ridiculous choice to make if you want the game to continue to live.

As i even said " I want scourge to be something good but its current design will likely

"never"

be good because its mechanics are too basic to balance in a way that scourge user will feel satisfied with and non scourge players wont feel is too powerful. Either they will be too weak for scourge players but balanced for others or they will feel good for scourge players and be too strong for others. Thats what happen when your main mechanic is 2 basic a indestructible aoe's (one of which moves with the caster while the other can be repositioned when the caster chooses.) The mechanic needs to be 1 or the other and be more dynamic so that it has more counters than just attacking from range.

I dont know why im even bothering to argue this with you. You are in the group that felt it was good to have a

"support"

spec dealing more damage than brusier and damage carry specs. Your logic is so twisted.

They never said Scourge was "full support", they just implied had access to decent support , not that couldnt deal decent dps. Scourge was implied to have actual DECENT dps since it had to "sacrifice" "shroud health pool" for them(for them i mean support and dps). Also you say that some scourge mechanics are very strong for others but it seems you forgot that necro has no blocks, no evades, to teleports, no mobility, no sustain, or just very subpar compared to other classes, hence the "strong dps" was very justified. Maybe some of the scourge mechanics were too busted, they needed to be toned down but now its too much. Delay on scourge aoe was already a pretty significant nerf then they destroy SS (100% recharge is just bad balance lel pacing of scourge was destroyed) and dhumfire too?it seems that necro cant be OBJECTIVELY competitive unless for necro you mean just a corrupt bot lol

None of what you really just pointed out invalidates my statement.No specs of necro have any of the things you listed but you dont see reaper doing one shot damage or core necro doing insta melting conditions or one shot damage either.So on a profession that has half or part of its role dictated to support why should it be doing more damage than specs that are designed to be damage carries / bruisers?

Regardless of how you twist this im not saying scourge cant have damage that was never the argument. Scourges mechanics are basic and because of that it makes them harder to balance without making them always be too weak or always bee too strong. People that dont play necro or dont like scourge will never like the current version of scourge and thats just how it is. Deal with it.

I already told you you dont let 1 profession ruin the fun for the majority of players which is what scourge was doing anet has no choice but to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal how ever that likely wont happen the moment a strong build emerges for scourge its going to result in the core mechanics being nerfed when used in conjunction with the scourge line.

Path of corruption
DhummfireWhy do you think this keeps happening its not simply because some one like me does not find scourge very interesting, creative, or fun to play as / against. ITs because the stuff is over baring to the majority of other players.

Man are you serious or you just like to throw random BS? Have you ever played competitive with scourge?maybe against good/experienced players? Scourge "dps" was JUSTIFIED around the fact that it had to sacrifice the "Shroud", the fact that necro has no sustain, no evades, no block, little access to boons, no insta teleport (overall poor active defenses) and the fact that Anet wanted necro to be a class specialized around area of control (you cant rework Scourge unless anet changes idea about the necromancer class should be).ummm noScourge damage at release was 100% far from justified if thats the case why couldnt reaper do such sheer amounts of damage from melee range in the same or less time?Every spec of necro has the roughly the same amount of sustain, evades, no block, and little access to boons. Yet this thing called scourge ( a support ) i might add has the right to deal more damage than reaper a brusier high damage dealing spec? You are funny.

Even at release and beta testing reaper didnt have that kind of power infact nothing short of mesmer had the kind of power scourge did with that bug in guildwars 2 history. Even on mesmer things have been in flux due to complaints about it. Generally every profession will get complained about but a sudden majority of people flock to a profession thats all running the same build and 1 shotting everything it touches and large number of people at the same time are crying out a bout it then yes... there is a problem.

I'm sick of explaining scourge stuff over and over again. If you cant understand what I mean then it just means you never played scourge competitive and you have NO RIGHT to talk about scourge balance. Oh i dont give a crap about ppl that dont like scourge. You dont like it? DEAL WITH IT. Dont kitten players that actually play it. Why ppl that never played scourge or necro in general has any right to influence my gameplay? There were indeed better ways to balance it without even touching core necro stuff.Dont assume things you know what they say about assuming.Do note i did say that i have played it not that "i have never played it" as a main necromancer player i do feel i have to right to speak on the specs regardless of if i like them or not. Personally if they dont change it and it continues to get nerfed its not going to hurt my feelings. That said i wont say scourge deserves to be nerfed but im simply pointing out facts based on whats changed thus far and the complaints i see form non scourge players as well as what i experience fighting them.

Allow me to ask you something how is it you have the right to tell me that i have no right to speak on a subject based on my own experice from which you clearly have not read? In fact it feels like you are typing a responce purely out of nothing more than anger or possibly passion for a spec that you enjoy/ enjoyed... If you want to have a conversation calm yourself a bit because you are taking this from 100 to 110 and its really not worth going the extra mile.

Also "anet has no choice to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal" this statement is absolutely stupid cause YOU CANT BALANCE A CLASS AROUND COMPLAINTS. Class must be balanced about OBJECTIVE facts, ppl that actually play it, not SUBJECTIVE "opinions" which most of them comes from trash players lol. Core necro was nerfed cause Anet nerfed scourge "around complaints". So Anet had several choices. Balance scourge properly around ppl that play it at decent levels or balance it around the negative perception of the elite spec.

First off let me tell you scourge at release was anything but skillful you literally dropped a shade under some one unless they saw you coming or had godly reaction time and the right set up there was nothing they could do about it. like it or not, necro player or not, experienced competitive or not, THAT was not fun for the majority.

YOU DONT

let a single problem profession ruin the game for the majority ( i dont care what the spec is)
ignore the majority of the community
allow teams to stack 3-4 scourges continuously game after game on both teams in competitive play and think its not an issue.

Objective facts were,

scourge was doing more damage from range than most melee professions could in a instant
scourge had insta melting conditions which anet has adressed they dont want to be a thing
people were complaining to the extent that it must mean something is imblanced

If anet could have chosen a better way to balance it we will never know but the facts are scourge was bugged and doing far too much. The bug was fixed and scourge apparently some how was still doing too much. So it got nerfed again and you know what complaints still came do you know why that might be?

FactIf you allow something to get under peoples skin for a month and it makes the game unenjoyable and that one thing happens to be a single profession espec. People will continue to dislike that e spec almost regardless of what changes are done to it to reduce its effective power. Its not your fault and its not mine but its how these things are so you sir... should...

"Deal with it"

thats just how it is. You cant change the past thats

Fact

you seem to like those so ill throw them back at you.

Last thing, I have to specify also is: what happened to Scourge also happened to Necro class in general to a lesser degree, in these years of gw2. Do you remember first dhumfire?(to have it necro got plenty of nerfs that didnt get reverted lol) Remember what happened to Terror necro? Oh also your beloved Reaper lol. Plenty of players complained abour reaper (mostly around the first Deathly Chill trait), although was already balanced when it came out, cause players didnt want to learn how to fight it" lol. See the pattern here? everytime necro get something competitive Anet destroy it cause just PLEASES complaints of some random scrubs (same treatment was/is also reserved to other classes like mesmer and ele, thief lol). After this post i hope i dont have to write this wall of text anymore to explain stuff to someone that appears to be a very casual player.

What you say here is fact minus the

"Random scrubs"

part not everyone will be good at the game but your insults are not going to help you here. Yes necro got nerfs time and time again thats

Fact

and it also simply proves my point that you are more so venting here. I suggest you not vent directly at some one in the future if you have something to get off your chest make a new post here for others to reply and converse with you on. You charged directly at me and thats no way to get you point across.

I dont like core necro or reaper getting nerfed anymore than you do scourge but it happened. How ever core and reaper never had as much threat/kill potential as scourge did upon release. A major shift in meta and complaints has never happened like with scourge before either.

Fun fact. ;)

Deathly chill was more so changed due to its interaction in pve by the way not because people didnt want to learn how to fight it. Please make sure you have all the facts clear before you start throwing random things out there.

So you are basically saying Deathly chill was changed in wvw/pvp due to pve? what?.o.O man you just say tons of BS. You should stop posting. Now go try scourge in roaming or high level pvp maybe you will learn something about the actual facts.

Anchoku.8142 · July 23, 2018

Reaper had two, big problems when it was introduced:

Perma-chill was a problem in PvP. Chill is very powerful on players. It is like a combination of cripple and anti-alacrity.
Chill-capping (on bosses) was a problem in PvE so that other players were pushing the damaging chills off the condi stack.

Aslakh.3072 · July 24, 2018

@ZDragon.3046We will have to agree to disagree on the shade mechanic being dynamic or not. I would consider it dynamic since when and where to place shades is alot more interactive and thought requiring than simply having damage/buffs on dodge. Placing multiple small shades to effect the maximum number of targets means predicting and controlling the movements of many enemies in a large area. Alternatively choosing when to place a network in closer distance to effect a larger than normal amount of mobs can be really effective or a waste since your not likely to let them recharge during a fight.In addition managing life force costs in relation to not only life force generating skills but also estimating how much you'll get and when, from the enemies your fighting giving life force on death.Basically combining those two mechanics with the parasitic contagion trait which scales healing with the amount of enemies your attacking at once creates a dynamic playstyle where you try to control the battlefield which is exactly what scourgre was sold as.Of course this is from the view point of someone who only does open world and solo/duo/trio dungeons and fractals.

Nimon.7840 · July 24, 2018

@"ZDragon.3046"While i agree, that scourge was way to strong at release, it got toned down very quickly.But the problem is, that it should have been a condition based support. That's at least what they said in the scourge trailer.

But they didn't only nerf scourge dmg. They also nerfed the support.-condiscourge cleanse of f2-adclear via epi

Sure Epi bounce was to strong but cutting the adclear by

Nerfing epi directly via nerfing outgoing conditions from epiAnd
1. Nerfing epi via making almost all condition builds worse than power builds, so scourge can only epi out his own conditions

That was way too much.

And what is wanted to say, without wanting to imply anything:There are necro mains and necro mains.

Some actually care about their class, because they play it actively. Some don't and they still have most hours played on their necro.

Let me give an example:I play necro actively. I rarely do pve. I don't really care for achievements.But i play builds in raids/fractals/wvw that require to push your buttons and thinking about what skill to use at a certain time.And I'd say necro is too weak at the moment.

On the other side, there are necro-mains that have all utility skills with minions slotted and play only open world pve, without actively playing, sure maybe they use some weapon skills, but they mostly just spam them.The minions play the game for them.And they say, necro is just right because it cannot die.

And then there are players, that never ever played necro. They just complain about the class, because others do it as well. Someone says "necro is to strong, it does too many conditions", even though he didn't know anything about necroThen other players like him joined the train, because they had the same experience facetanking the necro.

So now. Even if both are necro mains. Who do you think has better knowledge about the necro class?To whom would you listen more, when there needs to be balance done?

It seems like anets mentality is to balance around the second and the third group of players. And that's the real issue here.Not speaking or listening to players that are playing different builds, test out even totally out of mind things.

Necro is an unwanted child. And the community sales it like this:Remember when ele was doing like 46k DPS on large hitbox? Almost Nobody complained about that.Meteor shower was freaking strong. And did insane amounts of dmg in wvw as well (well not the numbers we get nowadays in wvw, but meteor worked another way)But as soon as necro gets anything good, everyone complains about it.

Guess necro players have to live with it, that they aren't allowed to have anything good, to be the best at something.They are only allowed to be average, being outclassed by other classes/professions.

Well. I forgot. We are good at something: AFK-FARMING with minion buildBut since that isn't allowed or wanted by anet....

The V.8759 · July 24, 2018

I am 100% aggreed with nerfing condi Scrouge into the ground, so far it doesn't exist anymore. Reason is very simple; Scourge is supposed to be a tanky support class that does a bit of damage through conditions. But ArenaNet failed to design it properly, and instead initially made him like a tanky condi bomber. It seems like I heard that before.... Ah yes, the reaper! Designed as a power spec, but failed design made him into a pure condition power house.

In the end, they should buff what Scourge is supposed to do; Barrier, heal and debilitate and nerf the conditions IMO.(Kind of controversial and I'll get flamed probably but ohwell)

Aslakh.3072 · July 24, 2018

The V.8759You'll find that what you said is not controversial, it's just completely wrong. I mean that in the most respectfull way possible. The devs have yet to tell us what they want scourge or even reaper to be mechanically, only thematically.

Reaper was thematically supposed to be "melee oriented" and "hard hitting". This makes it sound like a power specialisation but this is somewhat undermined by one of the other lines used to describe it. "Capable of heavily afflicting their victims with chill and other conditions...". other conditions could very well include damaging conditions, we just don't know. The fact that greatsword is obviously power oriented means that we assume, rightfully so, that it's atleast mostly a power specialisation. But that doesnt exclude any ability to be used as a condition specialisation, just that if its power is too low then its clearly a failing of the "hard hitting" part of the specialisation.Now onto scourge, its supposed "damage enemies and create shields for their allies." Some support and some damage, but then it reads "punishment skills to torment their enemies", more focus on damageing (read condition) enemies. The final line used to describe it is "wield torches to light the path to their destruction." That clearly does not sound like a pure support specialisation to me. Like greatsword is power with some control conditions (chill, blind) lets see what scourges torch does. The first torch skill burns and torments foes, clearly a damage oriented skill. The other torch skill applies more damaging conditions, knockdowns and applies might. Still quite a damage oriented skill.Looking at traitlines scourge has one traitline that applies barrier, condition cleanses and strengthens allies with barrier and then powers up shades. Not even an entire line is dedicated to shielding allies, but then it was only described once indicating an important but minor part of the specialisation. Now the next line increases the duration of conditions and the cooldowns of what is obviously a condition damage weapon. It causes punishments, described as applying torment which is a damaging condition to also apply burning when used with the mechanic which by default also applies torment. The grandmaster of that line strengthens torment and applies more burning. The final line consists of life force gain on corrupts and/or a damageing condition, more corrupts and more gain from using corrupts.

Looking at this it seems obvious that the priorities are damage > corrupts > barrier > might, with the option on specialising on any of those concepts. If reaper is supposed to be a power specialisation then scourge is even more obviously supposed to be a damageing condition specialisation. So please tell me how you are justifying the idea that "Scourge is supposed to be a tanky support class that does a bit of damage through conditions." with emphasis on "a bit of damage" because it looks to me like its supposed to be primarily doing damage, more than just a bit. So when you say that the devs "initially made him like a tanky condi bomber" I'd say well yea, what do you expect from a condition based damge proffesion with decent access to a literal shield mechanic?

Finally "In the end, they should buff what Scourge is supposed to do; Barrier, heal and debilitate and nerf the conditions IMO. " Should they? thats your opinion and I would disagree with it. Thankfully for me the developers don't seem to like completely rebranding specialisations which your suggestion seems to be for me. If I'm missing an important quote where the devs specifically said that scourges were not allowed to deal damage and must be Full support, not some support like a banner warrior does, then please enlighten me because I must have missed it.

ZDragon.3046 · July 24, 2018

@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.
Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.
Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with
Holosmith
which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:
Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.
ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.
So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

Correction i love necro i dislike scourge's mechanics and how bland they are not once did i say scourge should be nerfed into the ground.

You can twist it how ever you want to but fact is scourge is basic, non dynamic, and was litterally over loaded from the top down rather than necro core having a strong base to be built upon. The creators of scourge took a completely different design path that turned out to be a disaster to balance and for that you cant blame other players.

If fact the

"people"

you are talking about are the ones who repeatedly got killed by 1 shot scourge for a month and fought teams of 2-3 scourges at a time in pvp while not using scourge. Those

"people"

are the ones you have anything to thank for the complaints of scourge. Not once in my above statement did I ever call it

"OP"

it was bugged yes and that made it stronger than intended.

Do not fault me for reaper either with your negativity.I actually liked the old version of deathly chill more and always pulled for it it was one of the best things reaper had and thematically it was a golden trait. <3I also never pulled for the removal of reapers sustain and continue to play reaper to this day.

So before you use the words

"People like you"

get your facts straight.

Its the developers fault for leaving scourge bugged for over a month that people dislike it with a passion.It could literally drop a shade and melt any profession in the game instantly. How this was not a priority balance fix I'll never know but its not the player base's fault.

I understand some people love the current version of scourge but we will see how long that last fact of the matter is non scourge players dont like it and that accounts for a larger portion of the community. As a result anet has to listen because what you dont do is let one profession or its e spec ruin the game for the majority. Thats a foolish and ridiculous choice to make if you want the game to continue to live.

As i even said " I want scourge to be something good but its current design will likely

"never"

be good because its mechanics are too basic to balance in a way that scourge user will feel satisfied with and non scourge players wont feel is too powerful. Either they will be too weak for scourge players but balanced for others or they will feel good for scourge players and be too strong for others. Thats what happen when your main mechanic is 2 basic a indestructible aoe's (one of which moves with the caster while the other can be repositioned when the caster chooses.) The mechanic needs to be 1 or the other and be more dynamic so that it has more counters than just attacking from range.

I dont know why im even bothering to argue this with you. You are in the group that felt it was good to have a

"support"

spec dealing more damage than brusier and damage carry specs. Your logic is so twisted.

They never said Scourge was "full support", they just implied had access to decent support , not that couldnt deal decent dps. Scourge was implied to have actual DECENT dps since it had to "sacrifice" "shroud health pool" for them(for them i mean support and dps). Also you say that some scourge mechanics are very strong for others but it seems you forgot that necro has no blocks, no evades, to teleports, no mobility, no sustain, or just very subpar compared to other classes, hence the "strong dps" was very justified. Maybe some of the scourge mechanics were too busted, they needed to be toned down but now its too much. Delay on scourge aoe was already a pretty significant nerf then they destroy SS (100% recharge is just bad balance lel pacing of scourge was destroyed) and dhumfire too?it seems that necro cant be OBJECTIVELY competitive unless for necro you mean just a corrupt bot lol

None of what you really just pointed out invalidates my statement.No specs of necro have any of the things you listed but you dont see reaper doing one shot damage or core necro doing insta melting conditions or one shot damage either.So on a profession that has half or part of its role dictated to support why should it be doing more damage than specs that are designed to be damage carries / bruisers?

Regardless of how you twist this im not saying scourge cant have damage that was never the argument. Scourges mechanics are basic and because of that it makes them harder to balance without making them always be too weak or always bee too strong. People that dont play necro or dont like scourge will never like the current version of scourge and thats just how it is. Deal with it.

I already told you you dont let 1 profession ruin the fun for the majority of players which is what scourge was doing anet has no choice but to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal how ever that likely wont happen the moment a strong build emerges for scourge its going to result in the core mechanics being nerfed when used in conjunction with the scourge line.

Path of corruption
DhummfireWhy do you think this keeps happening its not simply because some one like me does not find scourge very interesting, creative, or fun to play as / against. ITs because the stuff is over baring to the majority of other players.

Man are you serious or you just like to throw random BS? Have you ever played competitive with scourge?maybe against good/experienced players? Scourge "dps" was JUSTIFIED around the fact that it had to sacrifice the "Shroud", the fact that necro has no sustain, no evades, no block, little access to boons, no insta teleport (overall poor active defenses) and the fact that Anet wanted necro to be a class specialized around area of control (you cant rework Scourge unless anet changes idea about the necromancer class should be).ummm noScourge damage at release was 100% far from justified if thats the case why couldnt reaper do such sheer amounts of damage from melee range in the same or less time?Every spec of necro has the roughly the same amount of sustain, evades, no block, and little access to boons. Yet this thing called scourge ( a support ) i might add has the right to deal more damage than reaper a brusier high damage dealing spec? You are funny.

Even at release and beta testing reaper didnt have that kind of power infact nothing short of mesmer had the kind of power scourge did with that bug in guildwars 2 history. Even on mesmer things have been in flux due to complaints about it. Generally every profession will get complained about but a sudden majority of people flock to a profession thats all running the same build and 1 shotting everything it touches and large number of people at the same time are crying out a bout it then yes... there is a problem.

I'm sick of explaining scourge stuff over and over again. If you cant understand what I mean then it just means you never played scourge competitive and you have NO RIGHT to talk about scourge balance. Oh i dont give a crap about ppl that dont like scourge. You dont like it? DEAL WITH IT. Dont kitten players that actually play it. Why ppl that never played scourge or necro in general has any right to influence my gameplay? There were indeed better ways to balance it without even touching core necro stuff.Dont assume things you know what they say about assuming.Do note i did say that i have played it not that "i have never played it" as a main necromancer player i do feel i have to right to speak on the specs regardless of if i like them or not. Personally if they dont change it and it continues to get nerfed its not going to hurt my feelings. That said i wont say scourge deserves to be nerfed but im simply pointing out facts based on whats changed thus far and the complaints i see form non scourge players as well as what i experience fighting them.

Allow me to ask you something how is it you have the right to tell me that i have no right to speak on a subject based on my own experice from which you clearly have not read? In fact it feels like you are typing a responce purely out of nothing more than anger or possibly passion for a spec that you enjoy/ enjoyed... If you want to have a conversation calm yourself a bit because you are taking this from 100 to 110 and its really not worth going the extra mile.

Also "anet has no choice to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal" this statement is absolutely stupid cause YOU CANT BALANCE A CLASS AROUND COMPLAINTS. Class must be balanced about OBJECTIVE facts, ppl that actually play it, not SUBJECTIVE "opinions" which most of them comes from trash players lol. Core necro was nerfed cause Anet nerfed scourge "around complaints". So Anet had several choices. Balance scourge properly around ppl that play it at decent levels or balance it around the negative perception of the elite spec.

First off let me tell you scourge at release was anything but skillful you literally dropped a shade under some one unless they saw you coming or had godly reaction time and the right set up there was nothing they could do about it. like it or not, necro player or not, experienced competitive or not, THAT was not fun for the majority.

YOU DONT

let a single problem profession ruin the game for the majority ( i dont care what the spec is)
ignore the majority of the community
allow teams to stack 3-4 scourges continuously game after game on both teams in competitive play and think its not an issue.

Objective facts were,

scourge was doing more damage from range than most melee professions could in a instant
scourge had insta melting conditions which anet has adressed they dont want to be a thing
people were complaining to the extent that it must mean something is imblanced

If anet could have chosen a better way to balance it we will never know but the facts are scourge was bugged and doing far too much. The bug was fixed and scourge apparently some how was still doing too much. So it got nerfed again and you know what complaints still came do you know why that might be?

FactIf you allow something to get under peoples skin for a month and it makes the game unenjoyable and that one thing happens to be a single profession espec. People will continue to dislike that e spec almost regardless of what changes are done to it to reduce its effective power. Its not your fault and its not mine but its how these things are so you sir... should...

"Deal with it"

thats just how it is. You cant change the past thats

Fact

you seem to like those so ill throw them back at you.

Last thing, I have to specify also is: what happened to Scourge also happened to Necro class in general to a lesser degree, in these years of gw2. Do you remember first dhumfire?(to have it necro got plenty of nerfs that didnt get reverted lol) Remember what happened to Terror necro? Oh also your beloved Reaper lol. Plenty of players complained abour reaper (mostly around the first Deathly Chill trait), although was already balanced when it came out, cause players didnt want to learn how to fight it" lol. See the pattern here? everytime necro get something competitive Anet destroy it cause just PLEASES complaints of some random scrubs (same treatment was/is also reserved to other classes like mesmer and ele, thief lol). After this post i hope i dont have to write this wall of text anymore to explain stuff to someone that appears to be a very casual player.

What you say here is fact minus the

"Random scrubs"

part not everyone will be good at the game but your insults are not going to help you here. Yes necro got nerfs time and time again thats

Fact

and it also simply proves my point that you are more so venting here. I suggest you not vent directly at some one in the future if you have something to get off your chest make a new post here for others to reply and converse with you on. You charged directly at me and thats no way to get you point across.

I dont like core necro or reaper getting nerfed anymore than you do scourge but it happened. How ever core and reaper never had as much threat/kill potential as scourge did upon release. A major shift in meta and complaints has never happened like with scourge before either.

Fun fact. ;)

Deathly chill was more so changed due to its interaction in pve by the way not because people didnt want to learn how to fight it. Please make sure you have all the facts clear before you start throwing random things out there.

So you are basically saying Deathly chill was changed in wvw/pvp due to pve? what?.o.O man you just say tons of BS. You should stop posting. Now go try scourge in roaming or high level pvp maybe you will learn something about the actual facts.

I mean yeah and its true you can go back and look up the main arguments behind it if you want to....

Yes perma chill was strong but thats easily fixed with a nerf to chill durations (deathly chill) did nothing to increase the duration of chill at all. Its fuction was not even a factor in chill durations.

The change came from the fact that at first, it didnt work at all against foes who had breakbars as they ignored the chill condition.2nd once that got fixed people quickly realized their damage could be overwritten by another reaper using the deathly chill trait because it didnt stack. This was the biggest problem that anet could have solved by allowing chill to stack like some other conditions but rather than that they chose to change the trait entirely to bleed application on chill application.

This solved the problem in pve and they at the same time believed that this was an overall better solution and as you know anet has always said they will never keep a skill or traits function different from pve and pvp so when it changed on one side it also changed on the other.

So if you want to continue to call out my nice explanation as BS when you clearly were not as in tuned with necro as you think you are thats fine.Its clear to me that you are some one who has no clue what they are talking about and you blurt out things and insults without a filter of any kind.

Do have a good day as i wont be replying to anymore of your post.

ReaverKane.7598 · July 24, 2018

@"pah.4931" said:They should just redesign it to be what they promised. A support class. It's ridiculous dps seemed like an accident anyways.

It never had inherent high DPS. That's why as soon as they fixed double application errors it's DPS was midling in PvE. The source of the "ridiculous DPS" was boon corruption. That would be solved with people playing with less boons (which i'm thinking was the intention of it), but because GW2 PvPers are just people farming PvE rewards at this point, the meta didn't shift, because, basically people don't really know how to adapt to new metas.So they nerfed the base DPS (which was average) to compensate for the corruption damage in PvP. And they nerfed corruptions, and conditions, all for the sake of that one thing, none of it worked because it was never a problem with the numbers, it was always the mechanic, and GW2's poor quality in terms of its PvP community.

Dace.8173 · July 24, 2018

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:
@X T D.6458 said:

Lets be honest, scourge was totally over powered at PoF launch. I mean, just a mess.

Would you say it was a .....hot ....mess? huh? huh? huh?

ok ....

I'll see myself out.

Luca.4670 · July 24, 2018

@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Luca.4670 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.
Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.
Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with
Holosmith
which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:
Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.
ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.
So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

Correction i love necro i dislike scourge's mechanics and how bland they are not once did i say scourge should be nerfed into the ground.

You can twist it how ever you want to but fact is scourge is basic, non dynamic, and was litterally over loaded from the top down rather than necro core having a strong base to be built upon. The creators of scourge took a completely different design path that turned out to be a disaster to balance and for that you cant blame other players.

If fact the

"people"

you are talking about are the ones who repeatedly got killed by 1 shot scourge for a month and fought teams of 2-3 scourges at a time in pvp while not using scourge. Those

"people"

are the ones you have anything to thank for the complaints of scourge. Not once in my above statement did I ever call it

"OP"

it was bugged yes and that made it stronger than intended.

Do not fault me for reaper either with your negativity.I actually liked the old version of deathly chill more and always pulled for it it was one of the best things reaper had and thematically it was a golden trait. <3I also never pulled for the removal of reapers sustain and continue to play reaper to this day.

So before you use the words

"People like you"

get your facts straight.

Its the developers fault for leaving scourge bugged for over a month that people dislike it with a passion.It could literally drop a shade and melt any profession in the game instantly. How this was not a priority balance fix I'll never know but its not the player base's fault.

I understand some people love the current version of scourge but we will see how long that last fact of the matter is non scourge players dont like it and that accounts for a larger portion of the community. As a result anet has to listen because what you dont do is let one profession or its e spec ruin the game for the majority. Thats a foolish and ridiculous choice to make if you want the game to continue to live.

As i even said " I want scourge to be something good but its current design will likely

"never"

be good because its mechanics are too basic to balance in a way that scourge user will feel satisfied with and non scourge players wont feel is too powerful. Either they will be too weak for scourge players but balanced for others or they will feel good for scourge players and be too strong for others. Thats what happen when your main mechanic is 2 basic a indestructible aoe's (one of which moves with the caster while the other can be repositioned when the caster chooses.) The mechanic needs to be 1 or the other and be more dynamic so that it has more counters than just attacking from range.

I dont know why im even bothering to argue this with you. You are in the group that felt it was good to have a

"support"

spec dealing more damage than brusier and damage carry specs. Your logic is so twisted.

They never said Scourge was "full support", they just implied had access to decent support , not that couldnt deal decent dps. Scourge was implied to have actual DECENT dps since it had to "sacrifice" "shroud health pool" for them(for them i mean support and dps). Also you say that some scourge mechanics are very strong for others but it seems you forgot that necro has no blocks, no evades, to teleports, no mobility, no sustain, or just very subpar compared to other classes, hence the "strong dps" was very justified. Maybe some of the scourge mechanics were too busted, they needed to be toned down but now its too much. Delay on scourge aoe was already a pretty significant nerf then they destroy SS (100% recharge is just bad balance lel pacing of scourge was destroyed) and dhumfire too?it seems that necro cant be OBJECTIVELY competitive unless for necro you mean just a corrupt bot lol

None of what you really just pointed out invalidates my statement.No specs of necro have any of the things you listed but you dont see reaper doing one shot damage or core necro doing insta melting conditions or one shot damage either.So on a profession that has half or part of its role dictated to support why should it be doing more damage than specs that are designed to be damage carries / bruisers?

Regardless of how you twist this im not saying scourge cant have damage that was never the argument. Scourges mechanics are basic and because of that it makes them harder to balance without making them always be too weak or always bee too strong. People that dont play necro or dont like scourge will never like the current version of scourge and thats just how it is. Deal with it.

I already told you you dont let 1 profession ruin the fun for the majority of players which is what scourge was doing anet has no choice but to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal how ever that likely wont happen the moment a strong build emerges for scourge its going to result in the core mechanics being nerfed when used in conjunction with the scourge line.

Path of corruption
DhummfireWhy do you think this keeps happening its not simply because some one like me does not find scourge very interesting, creative, or fun to play as / against. ITs because the stuff is over baring to the majority of other players.

Man are you serious or you just like to throw random BS? Have you ever played competitive with scourge?maybe against good/experienced players? Scourge "dps" was JUSTIFIED around the fact that it had to sacrifice the "Shroud", the fact that necro has no sustain, no evades, no block, little access to boons, no insta teleport (overall poor active defenses) and the fact that Anet wanted necro to be a class specialized around area of control (you cant rework Scourge unless anet changes idea about the necromancer class should be).ummm noScourge damage at release was 100% far from justified if thats the case why couldnt reaper do such sheer amounts of damage from melee range in the same or less time?Every spec of necro has the roughly the same amount of sustain, evades, no block, and little access to boons. Yet this thing called scourge ( a support ) i might add has the right to deal more damage than reaper a brusier high damage dealing spec? You are funny.

Even at release and beta testing reaper didnt have that kind of power infact nothing short of mesmer had the kind of power scourge did with that bug in guildwars 2 history. Even on mesmer things have been in flux due to complaints about it. Generally every profession will get complained about but a sudden majority of people flock to a profession thats all running the same build and 1 shotting everything it touches and large number of people at the same time are crying out a bout it then yes... there is a problem.

I'm sick of explaining scourge stuff over and over again. If you cant understand what I mean then it just means you never played scourge competitive and you have NO RIGHT to talk about scourge balance. Oh i dont give a crap about ppl that dont like scourge. You dont like it? DEAL WITH IT. Dont kitten players that actually play it. Why ppl that never played scourge or necro in general has any right to influence my gameplay? There were indeed better ways to balance it without even touching core necro stuff.Dont assume things you know what they say about assuming.Do note i did say that i have played it not that "i have never played it" as a main necromancer player i do feel i have to right to speak on the specs regardless of if i like them or not. Personally if they dont change it and it continues to get nerfed its not going to hurt my feelings. That said i wont say scourge deserves to be nerfed but im simply pointing out facts based on whats changed thus far and the complaints i see form non scourge players as well as what i experience fighting them.

Allow me to ask you something how is it you have the right to tell me that i have no right to speak on a subject based on my own experice from which you clearly have not read? In fact it feels like you are typing a responce purely out of nothing more than anger or possibly passion for a spec that you enjoy/ enjoyed... If you want to have a conversation calm yourself a bit because you are taking this from 100 to 110 and its really not worth going the extra mile.

Also "anet has no choice to roll it down untill the complaints stop or become minimal" this statement is absolutely stupid cause YOU CANT BALANCE A CLASS AROUND COMPLAINTS. Class must be balanced about OBJECTIVE facts, ppl that actually play it, not SUBJECTIVE "opinions" which most of them comes from trash players lol. Core necro was nerfed cause Anet nerfed scourge "around complaints". So Anet had several choices. Balance scourge properly around ppl that play it at decent levels or balance it around the negative perception of the elite spec.

First off let me tell you scourge at release was anything but skillful you literally dropped a shade under some one unless they saw you coming or had godly reaction time and the right set up there was nothing they could do about it. like it or not, necro player or not, experienced competitive or not, THAT was not fun for the majority.

YOU DONT

let a single problem profession ruin the game for the majority ( i dont care what the spec is)
ignore the majority of the community
allow teams to stack 3-4 scourges continuously game after game on both teams in competitive play and think its not an issue.

Objective facts were,

scourge was doing more damage from range than most melee professions could in a instant
scourge had insta melting conditions which anet has adressed they dont want to be a thing
people were complaining to the extent that it must mean something is imblanced