Is there a point to Scourge anymore?

[starlinvf.1358]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Make the shade skills all support/barrier style skills then redesign the elite to function as a giant damaging boon corrupting shade, something along the lines of a Winds of Disenchantment / Ghastly Breach fused together. Then remove WoD from warrior (because it's functionality fits better with scourge anyway). There is little point in having WoD and Ghastly breach exist together. Fuse them together, give it to the scourge as an elite and give the warrior a completely different re-designed elite.

The flaw of loading an entire meta defining function into a single class is that it pushes out all other classes, AND get to enjoy a single point of failure. While WoD is powerful, its the not sole source of boon corruption in the meta........ Scourge did it much better, but Spell Breaker is designed to do a similar job with a different targeting methodology. Most people don't notice it, but Spell Breaker perfectly scales itself across all game modes; and only really has issues with the general lack of boons in Open world. This works, because Boons are a resource for their damage, and their sustain via immunity works the exact same regardless of the incoming volume.

Scourge is broken because its damage model is basically the exact same as the previous meta...... only now the boons aren't consistently countering it. So the sustain game is now pushed into Damage soaking via Scourge Barriers, FB healing, and FB replenishing boons. Its a pure numbers game playing on attrition, and the reason why Spell Breaker/Warrior has been able to survive in it. Despite that, WoD is the big game changer in the SB arsenal, because it can affect the field AND also posses the same pitch perfect scaling.

If you move that to Scourge, its still completely at the mercy of its scaling model.... only now you have One skill thats mandatory for a Comp regardless of the state of the rest of the class. IE: What happened to Druid and Chrono. Their status hinging on the viability of one function.

[Safandula.8723]

I love necro and i have to say, im so fking happy scourge was finally nerfed to the ground. It had to much of everything. Boon to condi, condi to boon, tons of dmg ( power and condi), shields and area control. Finally we will have some skilled players in games

[SidewayS.3789]

@Safandula.8723 said:I love necro and i have to say, im so kitten happy scourge was finally nerfed to the ground. It had to much of everything. Boon to condi, condi to boon, tons of dmg ( power and condi), shields and area control. Finally we will have some skilled players in games

I hope you are sarcastic, otherwise, its seems stupidity strikes again,around here.

[Infusion.7149]

It's not so much a necromancer nerf as a scourge nerf. Shroud is in part a defensive mechanic, scourge didn't have shroud but had barriers instead.

Scepter had its boon corrupt moved to skill 3.

Blood as sand was a minor change. It's a minor trait as well.

Scourges had trail of anguish for mobility and that's mostly it (similar to Spectral Walk), I don't consider Sand Swell as mobility most times.

The only major change is Dhuumfire doesn't proc more than once every 5 seconds (per scourge).

[ElderNewt.5840]

@Safandula.8723 said:I love necro and i have to say, im so kitten happy scourge was finally nerfed to the ground. It had to much of everything. Boon to condi, condi to boon, tons of dmg ( power and condi), shields and area control. Finally we will have some skilled players in games

Please post your golem and RL boss DPS numbers. (Without Epi)Doesn't matter how skilled a player is.. They will still be limited to the amount of DPS they can do.. Which for the necro class falls far behind practically all other classes

[Obtena.7952]

If there is no point to Scourge, then we shouldn't see them being played anymore correct? Let's reconvene in a month to see if this ridiculous claim pans out shall we?

[Nilkemia.8507]

Overall, it seems necromancer has no point anymore, if it ever did. If it weren't for me liking this profession back before HoT made it "cool" to play, I wouldn't bother anymore. And scourge was the only viable option, and with that gone...

[Marxx.5021]

Dhuumfire: This trait now has a cooldown when used in conjunction with the scourge specialization. This cooldown is set at 5 seconds in PvP and WvW.Blood as Sand: This trait has been split and has had its damage reduction reduced from 5% per shade to 3% per shade in PvP and WvW.

I think those two changes were WvW driven. For sPvP it will remove scourge from solo queue. Given the history of balancing and how bad other classes/specs are treated for long periods of time there is no hope.

[Lahmia.2193]

Whilst the data is somewhat skewed, because of the current bug with meteor shower, I have seen far fewer scourges than ever before in wvw. Come Tuesday, we'll find out if this is the new norm.

[ZDragon.3046]

I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.

Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.

Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with Holosmith which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:

Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.

ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.

So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

[Luca.4670]

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.

Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.

Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with Holosmith which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:

Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.

ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.

So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Luca.4670 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.

Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.

Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with

Holosmith

which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:

Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.

ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.

So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

Correction i love necro i dislike scourge's mechanics and how bland they are not once did i say scourge should be nerfed into the ground.

You can twist it how ever you want to but fact is scourge is basic, non dynamic, and was litterally over loaded from the top down rather than necro core having a strong base to be built upon. The creators of scourge took a completely different design path that turned out to be a disaster to balance and for that you cant blame other players.

If fact the "people" you are talking about are the ones who repeatedly got killed by 1 shot scourge for a month and fought teams of 2-3 scourges at a time in pvp while not using scourge. Those "people" are the ones you have anything to thank for the complaints of scourge. Not once in my above statement did I ever call it "OP" it was bugged yes and that made it stronger than intended.

Do not fault me for reaper either with your negativity.I actually liked the old version of deathly chill more and always pulled for it it was one of the best things reaper had and thematically it was a golden trait. <3I also never pulled for the removal of reapers sustain and continue to play reaper to this day.

So before you use the words "People like you" get your facts straight.

Its the developers fault for leaving scourge bugged for over a month that people dislike it with a passion.It could literally drop a shade and melt any profession in the game instantly. How this was not a priority balance fix I'll never know but its not the player base's fault.

I understand some people love the current version of scourge but we will see how long that last fact of the matter is non scourge players dont like it and that accounts for a larger portion of the community. As a result anet has to listen because what you dont do is let one profession or its e spec ruin the game for the majority. Thats a foolish and ridiculous choice to make if you want the game to continue to live.

As i even said " I want scourge to be something good but its current design will likely "never" be good because its mechanics are too basic to balance in a way that scourge user will feel satisfied with and non scourge players wont feel is too powerful. Either they will be too weak for scourge players but balanced for others or they will feel good for scourge players and be too strong for others. Thats what happen when your main mechanic is 2 basic a indestructible aoe's (one of which moves with the caster while the other can be repositioned when the caster chooses.) The mechanic needs to be 1 or the other and be more dynamic so that it has more counters than just attacking from range.

I dont know why im even bothering to argue this with you. You are in the group that felt it was good to have a "support" spec dealing more damage than brusier and damage carry specs. Your logic is so twisted.

[Luca.4670]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Luca.4670 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.

Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.

Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with

Holosmith

which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:

Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.

ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.

So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

Correction i love necro i dislike scourge's mechanics and how bland they are not once did i say scourge should be nerfed into the ground.

You can twist it how ever you want to but fact is scourge is basic, non dynamic, and was litterally over loaded from the top down rather than necro core having a strong base to be built upon. The creators of scourge took a completely different design path that turned out to be a disaster to balance and for that you cant blame other players.

If fact the

"people"

you are talking about are the ones who repeatedly got killed by 1 shot scourge for a month and fought teams of 2-3 scourges at a time in pvp while not using scourge. Those

"people"

are the ones you have anything to thank for the complaints of scourge. Not once in my above statement did I ever call it

"OP"

it was bugged yes and that made it stronger than intended.

Do not fault me for reaper either with your negativity.I actually liked the old version of deathly chill more and always pulled for it it was one of the best things reaper had and thematically it was a golden trait. <3I also never pulled for the removal of reapers sustain and continue to play reaper to this day.

So before you use the words

"People like you"

get your facts straight.

Its the developers fault for leaving scourge bugged for over a month that people dislike it with a passion.It could literally drop a shade and melt any profession in the game instantly. How this was not a priority balance fix I'll never know but its not the player base's fault.

I understand some people love the current version of scourge but we will see how long that last fact of the matter is non scourge players dont like it and that accounts for a larger portion of the community. As a result anet has to listen because what you dont do is let one profession or its e spec ruin the game for the majority. Thats a foolish and ridiculous choice to make if you want the game to continue to live.

As i even said " I want scourge to be something good but its current design will likely

"never"

be good because its mechanics are too basic to balance in a way that scourge user will feel satisfied with and non scourge players wont feel is too powerful. Either they will be too weak for scourge players but balanced for others or they will feel good for scourge players and be too strong for others. Thats what happen when your main mechanic is 2 basic a indestructible aoe's (one of which moves with the caster while the other can be repositioned when the caster chooses.) The mechanic needs to be 1 or the other and be more dynamic so that it has more counters than just attacking from range.

I dont know why im even bothering to argue this with you. You are in the group that felt it was good to have a

"support"

spec dealing more damage than brusier and damage carry specs. Your logic is so twisted.

They never said Scourge was "full support", they just implied had access to decent support , not that couldnt deal decent dps. Scourge was implied to have actual DECENT dps since it had to "sacrifice" "shroud health pool" for them(for them i mean support and dps). Also you say that some scourge mechanics are very strong for others but it seems you forgot that necro has no blocks, no evades, to teleports, no mobility, no sustain, or just very subpar compared to other classes, hence the "strong dps" was very justified. Maybe some of the scourge mechanics were too busted, they needed to be toned down but now its too much. Delay on scourge aoe was already a pretty significant nerf then they destroy SS (100% recharge is just bad balance lel pacing of scourge was destroyed) and dhumfire too?it seems that necro cant be OBJECTIVELY competitive unless for necro you mean just a corrupt bot lol

[Aslakh.3072]

The idea behind scourge was was that it would give up the selfish shroud for the ability to give some team support like other proffesions. Alternatively like said other proffesions it can foregoe anything more than minor support to go full dps. This is why the demonix lore trait exists, why sadistic searing also burns etc. It is not designed around being only normally a full support unless you use other support traitlines, gear etc as an option.

As for "but fact is scourge is basic, non dynamic, and was litterally over loaded from the top down rather than necro core having a strong base to be built upon. The creators of scourge took a completely different design path that turned out to be a disaster to balance and for that you cant blame other players."Scourge is not basic, is more dynamic than reaper and was noticeably bugged overloading it.Scourge was literally buffed after removing the sand stacking+dhuumfire nerf because it was too weak. The design disaster was that they thought the sand savant trait, a trait that did not match the theme was balanced in pvp capture points and that turning all the punishments into even more corrupts was a good idea.

[Gamble.4580]

If u like necro and play pvp and pvp is what I will only mention as its the only thing I do at moment. If you have a fb and a get roam set up team then play scourge if u don't have a fb play reaper. You change your play style for you team match up. I love reaper for side node fighting and 1v1 but scordge is the strongest for support 4v4. Have two necro builds/char one for team fights and one for roam solo

[Obtena.7952]

@Luca.4670 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.

Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.

Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with

Holosmith

which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:

Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.

ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.

So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

Wait what? You're blaming people for ruining Scourge? That's misguided don't you think? Anet controls the game, not people. You think the people in this game are so influential to what Anet does .. yet we see here every patch tons of things that Anet does that people can't figure out or want? The kind of thinking you are exhibiting here is unbelievable; Anet changes things in the game because of their agenda, not small groups of vocal people on the forum.

Scourge is probably the BEST of the three specs you can play for Necro right now. It's a mess? That doesn't even make sense. It's the most well thought out and useful spec we have. I'm not saying it's not taken some big hits ... but it's still very well done and useful. if Scourge is a mess, it's the mess of least concern.

If there isn't a point to Scourge anymore .. then tell me what people are running are in all the game modes. I'm certain there is a 'point' to Scourge, even if it's taken nerfs.

[TotallyNotJazzie.1493]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Luca.4670 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I've played necro from long before the days of HoT and core shroud was what got me absolutely in love with it. It was the only profession with a flashy transform skill as its profession mechanic and using it was just tons of fun :+1: An increase in power new skills and it felt super strong and effective each time you pushed the button. "IAM DEATH!" Yess... yes.... this alone kept me playing the profession even into HoT and when reaper came out it was like reliving it all over again.

Then came scourge.... the moment i watched the trailer and heard the words "Gives up his shroud" I knew this was going to be trouble.... but my god I never could have expected this fall out.

Yes not everyone loved core.... BUT tons of people loved reaper. I MEAN LOVED IT! why couldn't anet just stick to making scourge with some sort of new unique shroud. While i know alot of people dont like the shroud mechanic its a core defining part of necro and ideally while it has its own balance problems in its past and current iterations there are other ways it could have been implemented to avoid those issues as seen with

Holosmith

which basically has a transform skill similar to activating a shroud.They could have done something similar for scourge. :angry:

Scourge is truly dull and feels like more work and effort with no more reward than any other form of necomancer with some forms of the necro theme removed from it. IT was literally a bandaid fix to try and cover as much of the core necro problems all at once while trying to see how necro would function without a shroud all in one go.

ResultOverweighted trait line that makes it function like its own base profession as a wholeOverloaded professions skillsTotal balance disasterA support with almost no support power.

So to answer the OP questionI have no idea what scourge is suppose to do now or what its suppose to be going into the future.Scourge literally put a scar on the games community for the first month of release that will never be washed away until the spec undergoes a complete rework.I do want to see scourge become something but nothing like it currently is.

Scourge is a mess right now cause ppl like you that didnt like it. GG for ruining scourge for ppl that actually like it. And no i didnt like it cause it felt "OP" but cause it worked and felt like a real "dark caster" and finally necro had a competitive class. Same thing actually happened to reaper when they did remove its inbuilt tankyness/sustain and old Deathly Chill.

Wait what? You're blaming people for ruining Scourge? That's misguided don't you think? Anet controls the game, not people. You think the people in this game are so influential to what Anet does .. yet we see here every patch tons of things that Anet does that people can't figure out or want? The kind of thinking you are exhibiting here is unbelievable; Anet changes things in the game because of their agenda, not small groups of vocal people on the forum.

Scourge is probably the BEST of the three specs you can play for Necro right now. It's a mess? That doesn't even make sense. It's the most well thought out and useful spec we have. I'm not saying it's not taken some big hits ... but it's still very well done and useful. if Scourge is a mess, it's the mess of least concern.

If there isn't a point to Scourge anymore .. then tell me what people are running are in all the game modes. I'm certain there is a 'point' to Scourge, even if it's taken nerfs.

You summed it up pretty well.

Scourge will only be regarded as truly underpowered if you see nobody running it anymore anywhere. Like Scrapper was before the recent changes. That was a joke espec for the longest time and only now has a foothold to be taken seriously.

When Scourge gets to that point I’ll agree, and also jump on the back of the bandwagon, but until then people really should stop the over-the-top QQ.

Nobody’s listening anymore even if they ever did that is.

[Luca.4670]

Scourge got balanced around bad players that have no right to talk about balance. Nerfs scourge received were wrong. As result scourge is objectly subpar in high level pvp and anything its not a zerg.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

@X T D.6458 said:Can you please redesign this spec now? This spec was made to fill specific roles, condi spec/boon corruption/area control etc. But after so many nerfs is there even a point to it? Boon corruption nerfed, damage nerfed, survivability nerfed, in addition to necromancers lack of any sustain and mobility skills. You create a spec which encourages us to play in a specific way, then you nerf the hell out of it. Seriously just redesign the entire spec at this point.

If anyone is familiar with OP, he hates boonspam and he comes from a WvW perspective. But to say that scourge has been nerfed to uselessness is ridiculous. It totally negates your opinion and just shows how much he hates boon spam.

Lets be honest, scourge was totally over powered at PoF launch. I mean, just a mess. It needed massive reworks and nerfs. After nearly a year, we're finally in a decent place. 30 seconds on the F1 was needed. People might actually need to think about where and when they're placing their shades and what shade skills they're using rather than having them be nearly unlimited and spamming F1-5. Since the shades have a 30 sec CD and you get 3 of them, the ideal timing is place one every 10 seconds. Even if you were to double that up, one every 5 seconds, that matches the icd of Dhrumfire. Not really that big of a deal.

I did disagree with Path of Corruption, your F2 being changed from converting 2 boons to 1 as that affected base necro and reaper, and it was more a reaction to it being buggey and doubles up with the shroud on the necro as well as the shade. Meh, not that big of deal. We're still corrupting a boon.

But look at what's left: Unending corruption, removes a boon, no icd. [edit for correction] Every utility corrupts at least 1 boon. Well of corruption converts with each pulse. Ghastly breach converts with each pulse. [Edit for correction] You could trade off the F2 corruption for the spite trait line and go with Spiteful Spirit and convert 2-4 boons with each F5. And we haven't even mentioned weapons.

And lets not forget that you hit up to 10 targets with your F abilities. Nothing else can do that.

I'm sick of this hyperbole regarding scourge. It's still super powerful. If you get caught in a bomb with some bad rng or a bad support group, your dead in 1 second.

[Lahmia.2193]

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:Nourishing ashes, remove a boon when you inflict burning

Nourishing ashes grants 5% life force whenever you remove/corrupt a boon or inflict burning.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:Nourishing ashes, remove a boon when you inflict burning

Nourishing ashes grants 5% life force whenever you remove/corrupt a boon or inflict burning.

OK, I'll stand corrected on that as I've never actually tested it. Just going off the tool tip. They need to learn the difference between and and or. Even if you take that out, Scourge still does a shit ton of corruption.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:

@"X T D.6458" said:Can you please redesign this spec now? This spec was made to fill specific roles, condi spec/boon corruption/area control etc. But after so many nerfs is there even a point to it? Boon corruption nerfed, damage nerfed, survivability nerfed, in addition to necromancers lack of any sustain and mobility skills. You create a spec which encourages us to play in a specific way, then you nerf the hell out of it. Seriously just redesign the entire spec at this point.

If anyone is familiar with OP, he hates boonspam and he comes from a WvW perspective. But to say that scourge has been nerfed to uselessness is ridiculous. It totally negates your opinion and just shows how much he hates boon spam.

Lets be honest, scourge was totally over powered at PoF launch. I mean, just a mess. It needed massive reworks and nerfs. After nearly a year, we're finally in a decent place. 30 seconds on the F1 was needed. People might actually need to think about where and when they're placing their shades and what shade skills they're using rather than having them be nearly unlimited and spamming F1-5. Since the shades have a 30 sec CD and you get 3 of them, the ideal timing is place one every 10 seconds. Even if you were to double that up, one every 5 seconds, that matches the icd of Dhrumfire. Not really that big of a deal.

I did disagree with Path of Corruption, your F2 being changed from converting 2 boons to 1 as that affected base necro and reaper, and it was more a reaction to it being buggey and doubles up with the shroud on the necro as well as the shade. Meh, not that big of deal. We're still corrupting a boon.

But look at what's left: Unending corruption, removes a boon, no icd. [edit for correction] Every utility corrupts at least 1 boon. Well of corruption converts with each pulse. Ghastly breach converts with each pulse. [Edit for correction] You could trade off the F2 corruption for the spite trait line and go with Spiteful Spirit and convert 2-4 boons with each F5. And we haven't even mentioned weapons.

And lets not forget that you hit up to 10 targets with your F abilities. Nothing else can do that.

I'm sick of this hyperbole regarding scourge. It's still super powerful. If you get caught in a bomb with some bad rng or a bad support group, your dead in 1 second.

If you get caught in a scourge bomb all it does it tickles, it doesn't do anything meaningful on it's own. What you (and others are complaining about in "said" bomb) is when you are getting hit by multiple scourge at once. This is no different than getting hit with multiple melee at once. A single scourge bomb on it's own is pathetic.

Many people run condition duration reduction but not a lot of scourge run an increase in condition duration. What's the point? Many of the conditions don't even work due to resistance, or they get cleansed quickly anyway. Better simply to run dire.

If they are running dire (or even trailblazers even though it's a waste), the shades themselves hit like wet noodles. Because the shade skill cool downs are as they are at the moment, they're really only good for 1 fight, because the fights are either over in 10s or people are running. Because they do such little damage on their own, you literally will get the same amount of damage cleaving on a melee per strike. So in essence they've taken a major aspect of the Scourge play style and reduced it's damage and effectiveness to that of a melee running in blindly swinging with the exception, 2 of the scourge skills sit on an 8s cool down.

Boon corruption? Why not just bring a warrior then. Bubbles are far more effective, cover more space, hit more people, and has the luxury of a lot of damage mitigation, mobility, and simply hitting #1 and doing equal (if not greater) damage than a shade bomb on no cool down.

[Sephylon.4938]

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:I did disagree with Path of Corruption, your F2 being changed from converting 2 boons to 1 as that affected base necro and reaper, and it was more a reaction to it being buggey and doubles up with the shroud on the necro as well as the shade. Meh, not that big of deal. We're still corrupting a boon.

That only happens when you use scourge, core and reaper f2 still corrupts 2 with poc

You could trade off the F2 corruption for the spite trait line and go with Spiteful Spirit and convert 2-4 boons with each F5.2-4? Last checked it was only 2. Also that doesn't proc on shade location, you'd have to be right beside them to corrupt anything with that while giving up torment on fear, and the sustain on parasitic.

And we haven't even mentioned weapons.what about them? Dagger isn't used in zergs, axe has a 2 boon pbaoe corrupt, scepter has a 3 boon single target corrupt, and you're only going to have to deal with 1 of those, most likely axe, as the other weapon will most likely be staff which has 0 corrupts.

[Obtena.7952]

@"Luca.4670" said:Scourge got balanced around bad players that have no right to talk about balance. Nerfs scourge received were wrong. As result scourge is objectly subpar in high level pvp and anything its not a zerg.

Wait .. that doesn't make sense .... you don't know anything more than what Anet tells you as the reason for why things get changed in the game and I didn't see Anet say "we are changing Scourge because of bad players that don't know about balance". You need to put that kind of thinking out of mind, otherwise you will never understand any of the changes Anet makes.

I mean, I don't even understand how Anet would even do that if it was true ... how does Anet find the worst players and ask SPECIFICALLY them how to balance the game? That's not even logical. They also have no motive to find the bad players to do that ... or the good ones. The fact is that Anet has no need to consult any players to determine what changes to make in the game, so assuming they go out of their way and make extra work to do so is not sensible.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

@Sephylon.4938 said:

You could trade off the F2 corruption for the spite trait line and go with Spiteful Spirit and convert 2-4 boons with each F5.2-4? Last checked it was only 2. Also that doesn't proc on shade location, you'd have to be right beside them to corrupt anything with that while giving up torment on fear, and the sustain on parasitic.

I believe it's 4 on players under 50% health without looking it up.