>25K from stealth in an instant and go back to stealth instantly.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Scar.1793 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Scar.1793 said:Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

Pardon my ignorance on the class but how do they resist the opener?

Deadeye has a hard time surviving soulbeast's opener. Rapid fire buffed by sic 'em and quickening zephyr is nasty, especially if the soulbeast is stacking might through strength of the pack (a merged soulbeast counts as both the pet and the ranger, so each hit grants two stacks of might and rapid fire hits ten times). And soulbeast has a few ways to be unblockable. Longbow's superior range makes it so most deadeyes don't get a chance to get close enough to use rifle.

If the deadeye gets to fire a death's judgment, then either signet of stone or a well-timed dodge/evade (greatsword/sword/lightning reflexes are all good options) will work. If the deadeye tries it within 750 range, then the smoke assault from smokecale beastmode works great to both evade the shot and put the soulbeast on top of the deadeye and the soulbeast will stick to the deadeye for the duration of the smoke assault.

that is if the deadeye approaches visibly.if he approaches in stealth and your full glass tho, no matter the class it looks more or less like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bt5tQ606YY

to avoid this your not allowed to be full glass. sure there is in theory time to react between mark and the backstab hit yet due to latency that is in many cases not realitstic.

If it's known that a thief is around (necro marks suggest they knew a thief was in the tower), then standing still for it to skip over for a backstab is not smart regardless of gear choice.

that is correct he knew in that case and did act wrong, especially as that wasnt his first time running into me that day but the 3rd. but that was not my point.Scar said he has 16k hp on his rev and dies 1-2 shot against thieves so i think he is glass and he asked how you survive the opening burst , because he struggles.you replied that the deadeye will struggle to survive the soulbeast opener - yet how can the soulbeast possibly open the fight against a deadeye that approaches in stealth and not visibly?my point was that if your glass, with most classes you will just die onehit out of nowhere. sure in this particular case the mesmer could have acted different. now image the same on open field. your walkin from a newly caputred sentry towards a camp and then without you seeing any visual sign of an opponent, mark+backstab.for players to react fast it is often very important to expect. if you know a thief is near you can react faster then if you do not know this.

Scar asked how soulbeast resists the deadeye opener (assume he meant DJ). Applying pressure before the deadeye is in range is soulbeast's first move on encountering a deadeye. Deadeye cannot stealth to avoid the burst.

As to approaching from stealth, this is only practical on any gank build when the player knows a fight is immediately upcoming such as at an objective. Deadeye has a lot of stealth, but it's not going to stack it just to move across the map. Sounds boring. :)

As to running glass: Scar asked a question and I answered it. Nowhere in my answer did I say the soulbeast should run as full glass. Built for power =/= full glass.

@Scar.179316k is too low of a health pool. Yes, adding more vit and toughness will lower your damage as far as how hard your hits will be, but ideally you want balance between surviving a fight and killing the thing you're fighting. You do zero damage when you're dead. Marauder is a good option for increasing your health pool without sacrificing too much in the way of damage stats. Captain and cavalier are also good stat combos for working in a little toughness.

The video in the OP is a good example of someone investing too much in toughness and vit. The soulbeast in question has invested in those two to the point that they wouldn't be able to burst a deadeye down.

[bq pd.2148]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:Scar asked how soulbeast resists the deadeye opener (assume he meant DJ). Applying pressure before the deadeye is in range is soulbeast's first move on encountering a deadeye. Deadeye cannot stealth to avoid the burst.

DJ is a terrible burst opener for rifle, TRB is alot better.why cant a deadeye stealth to avoid the burst? i mean sic em is 2k range 'only' so he will be able to see you and go in stealth before you are in sic em range, then close the gap so he can actually hit you first.As to approaching from stealth, this is only practical on any gank build when the player knows a fight is immediately upcoming such as at an objective. Deadeye has a lot of stealth, but it's not going to stack it just to move across the map. Sounds boring. :)

what you think is boring is by no means a reason why others wont do it. and some people have alot better map awareness then others so they might know a fight is upcomming while their opponents dont, most people dont mind what tracks they leave on the map and pretty much ask to be ganked like that.

[SnowHawk.3615]

The thing is, doing that amount of damage they trade off in health. As a thief tankiness isn't an option they were designed for single target dmg and they're supposed to hit like a truck and die like snake to a lawnmower if someone so much as sneezes on them which is why stealth needs to be so readily available to them. I bet this is a power druid that also hits like a truck.
Thieves are a selfish class aside from when they give stealth to other players - they rely on self sustainability. This deadeye was doing their job as a single target DPS.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@MUDse.7623Soulbeast won't use sic 'em at 2k range. Sic 'em is instant cast and is used in conjunction with landing attacks (like from longbow) for the damage modifier. If the soulbeast isn't landing attacks for whatever reason (out of range, etc) then sic 'em won't be used at that point.

Scar didn't specify what about deadeye was killing him as an opener. If it's shots other than DJ, then blocks such as the one on rev staff will be possible counterplay.

[Sylosi.6503]

Whoops, wrong thread...

[Turk.5460]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:As to approaching from stealth, this is only practical on any gank build when the player knows a fight is immediately upcoming such as at an objective. Deadeye has a lot of stealth, but it's not going to stack it just to move across the map. Sounds boring. :)

On the contrary, that is exactly how I move across the map when I feel like playing DE/SA/CS. Without a constant supply of low-hp ambient creatures, DE has limited access to swiftness. And SA gives 50% movement speed while in stealth - so it's generally faster for me to dodge, BP, HS, HS, HS and repeat every 10 seconds.

Edit - for anyone wondering, this is about the same travel speed as someone with permanent swiftness who is not using any additional movement abilities IE. Swoop, IA etc.)

[Solo.6873]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Scar.1793 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Scar.1793 said:Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

Pardon my ignorance on the class but how do they resist the opener?

Deadeye has a hard time surviving soulbeast's opener. Rapid fire buffed by sic 'em and quickening zephyr is nasty, especially if the soulbeast is stacking might through strength of the pack (a merged soulbeast counts as both the pet and the ranger, so each hit grants two stacks of might and rapid fire hits ten times). And soulbeast has a few ways to be unblockable. Longbow's superior range makes it so most deadeyes don't get a chance to get close enough to use rifle.

If the deadeye gets to fire a death's judgment, then either signet of stone or a well-timed dodge/evade (greatsword/sword/lightning reflexes are all good options) will work. If the deadeye tries it within 750 range, then the smoke assault from smokecale beastmode works great to both evade the shot and put the soulbeast on top of the deadeye and the soulbeast will stick to the deadeye for the duration of the smoke assault.

that is if the deadeye approaches visibly.if he approaches in stealth and your full glass tho, no matter the class it looks more or less like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bt5tQ606YY

to avoid this your not allowed to be full glass. sure there is in theory time to react between mark and the backstab hit yet due to latency that is in many cases not realitstic.

If it's known that a thief is around (necro marks suggest they knew a thief was in the tower), then standing still for it to skip over for a backstab is not smart regardless of gear choice.

That is funny nglLike if you know a thief is their and you stand still with not marks on you, You deserve that Backstab 40 times over

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Scar.1793 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Scar.1793 said:Only way to deal with this class is a 2vs1 if your partner or yourself can resist or at least try to resist the opener. Even that way it’s not too hard for the thief with all the defensive tools.

Soulbeast built for power can 1v1 deadeye pretty successfully if played well.

Pardon my ignorance on the class but how do they resist the opener?

Deadeye has a hard time surviving soulbeast's opener. Rapid fire buffed by sic 'em and quickening zephyr is nasty, especially if the soulbeast is stacking might through strength of the pack (a merged soulbeast counts as both the pet and the ranger, so each hit grants two stacks of might and rapid fire hits ten times). And soulbeast has a few ways to be unblockable. Longbow's superior range makes it so most deadeyes don't get a chance to get close enough to use rifle.

If the deadeye gets to fire a death's judgment, then either signet of stone or a well-timed dodge/evade (greatsword/sword/lightning reflexes are all good options) will work. If the deadeye tries it within 750 range, then the smoke assault from smokecale beastmode works great to both evade the shot and put the soulbeast on top of the deadeye and the soulbeast will stick to the deadeye for the duration of the smoke assault.

that is if the deadeye approaches visibly.if he approaches in stealth and your full glass tho, no matter the class it looks more or less like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bt5tQ606YY

to avoid this your not allowed to be full glass. sure there is in theory time to react between mark and the backstab hit yet due to latency that is in many cases not realitstic.

If it's known that a thief is around (necro marks suggest they knew a thief was in the tower), then standing still for it to skip over for a backstab is not smart regardless of gear choice.

That is funny nglLike if you know a thief is their and you stand still with not marks on you, You deserve that Backstab 40 times over

Judging from the clip, it looks like the mesmer and the reaper both expected the necro marks to warn of the thief's approach as it wouldn't be possible for an enemy to walk/leap to the their location on the wall without triggering the marks. Ports such as shadowstep of course bypass marks, traps, etc entirely, so those necro marks were never going to be any kind of warning.

The mesmer also went from 100 to 0 from one 18kish backstab, suggesting little to no vitality on their gear. Playing as glass requires active defense.

[Fatherbliss.4701]

I hear you but at the same time this usually requires a lot of set up to pull off. Besides there is nothing more amusing than using a pull and loading them up with conditions. Then watching them die slowly while I lay down next to a twitching body.

[Turk.5460]

@"Fatherbliss.4701" said:I hear you but at the same time this usually requires a lot of set up to pull off. Besides there is nothing more amusing than using a pull and loading them up with conditions. Then watching them die slowly while I lay down next to a twitching body.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace

[bq pd.2148]

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Fatherbliss.4701" said:I hear you but at the same time this usually requires a lot of set up to pull off. Besides there is nothing more amusing than using a pull and loading them up with conditions. Then watching them die slowly while I lay down next to a twitching body.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace

he is right tho 9/10 deadeyes use concealed defeat for what ever weird reason so it is rather safe to assume a deadeye you ecounter is vulnerable to condis. but yeah i am not and anyone running shadows embrace is also in an excellent position against condi builds.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Worst thing about that trait is that it gives your position away when you are downed (for what ece reason)

[Voltekka.2375]

They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

[bq pd.2148]

@Voltekka.2375 said:They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

huge advantage in what? 1vsX fights? i didnt know the game was about that.

[Turk.5460]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

huge advantage in what? 1vsX fights? i didnt know the game was about that.

Warriors don't have access to stealth and they're still arguably the easiest and most effective to play 1v1. The meta roaming builds for War/SB practically play the game for you. No stealth.

[babazhook.6805]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Fatherbliss.4701" said:I hear you but at the same time this usually requires a lot of set up to pull off. Besides there is nothing more amusing than using a pull and loading them up with conditions. Then watching them die slowly while I lay down next to a twitching body.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace

he is right tho 9/10 deadeyes use concealed defeat for what ever weird reason so it is rather safe to assume a deadeye you ecounter is vulnerable to condis. but yeah i am not and anyone running shadows embrace is also in an excellent position against condi builds.

While I still prefer SE in the SA line over concealed defeat there reasons to use the latter.

The Combination of of the HIS cleanse with Shadowstep is generally enough cleanse given the lower ICDS afforded by taking Concealed. Taking BP (deception) Shadowstep and HIS is a well rounded combo of stealth/cleanse stun break and heal all on lower Cooldown. Deception skills tend to be really good for a DE build and in particular p/d condition. When using HIS with respite as example the trap laid while you in stealth so it much easier to place without an enemy knowing.

Giving away position on downed is not that big a deal. The only time it really a negative is if you had used SR to stealth and are downed right after.

The boost to the HIS heal as far as variety of conditions, coupled with the added health regain and regen make it a very solid heal at 24 seconds.

[Voltekka.2375]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

huge advantage in what? 1vsX fights? i didnt know the game was about that.

Well, since the game isnt about 1vsX, hence that mode is unimportant, why not remove stealth? Shouldnt make much of an impact, eh?

[Voltekka.2375]

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

huge advantage in what? 1vsX fights? i didnt know the game was about that.

Warriors don't have access to stealth and they're still arguably the easiest

and

most effective to play 1v1. The meta roaming builds for War/SB practically play the game for you. No stealth.

Does the warr do a 15k+ hit from stealth, and restealthes? If so, I would like which skill that is, so I can use it, thanks

[urdriel.8496]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

huge advantage in what? 1vsX fights? i didnt know the game was about that.

Warriors don't have access to stealth and they're still arguably the easiest

and

most effective to play 1v1. The meta roaming builds for War/SB practically play the game for you. No stealth.

Does the warr do a 15k+ hit from stealth, and restealthes? If so, I would like which skill that is, so I can use it, thanks

He can break your head with 12k+ eviscerate while being invulnerable to damage and condis, in fact any good warrior will wipe the floor with a DE thief.

DE thief is really funny for trolling people in unranked, but in ranked, usually is like play a 4vs5.

[bq pd.2148]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

huge advantage in what? 1vsX fights? i didnt know the game was about that.

Well, since the game isnt about 1vsX, hence that mode is unimportant, why not remove stealth? Shouldnt make much of an impact, eh?

that strawman..i can do this too.defense is unimportant because you only need damage to win a fight, so remove everything aside from pure damage, to balance this we all just get a stick that deals 1 damage and 10 hp. there you go perfect balance

[Voltekka.2375]

@urdriel.8496 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

huge advantage in what? 1vsX fights? i didnt know the game was about that.

Warriors don't have access to stealth and they're still arguably the easiest

and

most effective to play 1v1. The meta roaming builds for War/SB practically play the game for you. No stealth.

Does the warr do a 15k+ hit from stealth, and restealthes? If so, I would like which skill that is, so I can use it, thanks

He can break your head with 12k+ eviscerate while being invulnerable to damage and condis, in fact any good warrior will wipe the floor with a DE thief.

DE thief is really funny for trolling people in unranked, but in ranked, usually is like play a 4vs5.

I thought this was the wvw forum, no?

[urdriel.8496]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@urdriel.8496 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:They should either remove stealth altogether, or rework it from its very core. Every class with access to stealth has a huge advantage.

huge advantage in what? 1vsX fights? i didnt know the game was about that.

Warriors don't have access to stealth and they're still arguably the easiest

and

most effective to play 1v1. The meta roaming builds for War/SB practically play the game for you. No stealth.

Does the warr do a 15k+ hit from stealth, and restealthes? If so, I would like which skill that is, so I can use it, thanks

He can break your head with 15k+ eviscerate while being invulnerable to damage and condis for 10secs , in fact any good warrior will wipe the floor with a DE thief.

DE thief is really funny for trolling people from walls, any tree, any rock, any little ramp will obstruct his shots.

I thought this was the wvw forum, no?

sry, let me change it.

He can break your head with 15k+ eviscerate while being invulnerable to damage and condis for 10secs , in fact any good warrior will wipe the floor with a DE thief.

DE thief is really funny for trolling people from walls, any tree, any rock, any little ramp will obstruct his shots.

[XenesisII.1540]

There's no argument to made here. Stealth is broken, has always been broken, will always be broken. When a thief can stealth 99% of the time and run around 5 people dropping fields all over the place, that's broken. When they come out of stealth and hit for 15k back stabs on 3k armor, that's broken. When they can one shot 20k back stab you, that's broken.

Don't bother arguing on either side because it's never going to change anyways.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

What’s really broken is this record, just like the Horse is dead, Anet doesn’t agree, as been shown over the past 6 yeare.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

What's broken is mentality of players that stand still at one place or run a straight line inviting a backstab.Then come to forum and complaint thief is broken.

Edit: Just look at OP. Standing at one place like saying i can't beat you, just do a massive backstab so i can make a post that thief class is broken.