Which meta was worst?

[Etheri.5406]

@"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said:One shot power.Kills the fun for me.

Atleast with bunker meta no matter how long fights took u atleast are in combat.

??????????I had several games with less than 100 points scored, won as the timer timed out. I literally had matches where me and the other bunker would call it quits after a few minutes and AFK'd on node chatting. If a +1 arrived I flamed them until they left because frankly bunker vs bunker was a bad +1, still.

You were in "combat", but that's about it.

[Arcaedus.7290]

D/D cele ele, pre HoT was by far the worst. I remember making one to learn of its weaknesses. Practiced for just two hours to learn the rotation, then I was completely unbeatable in 1v1s. Even against the best condi warrior I could find (supposedly a soft counter), he couldn't even get close to killing me although could force me off point for a while.

A build that can just faceroll through a rotation endlessly with absolutely zero attention paid to what opponents are doing should never be a thing.

[KrHome.1920]

Cele ele. It was just dumb.

When you came close to that build the player started his rotation while ignoring what you did. I remember the moments when I got bored and stopped fighting this build after 1 minute and moved next to the point just standing there and watching and these eles just continued endlessly their stupid rotation that kept them unkillable - just in case I might probably reengage them.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Bunker.

Oneshot power you could at least dodge.

Bunker you had to dedicate multiple people just to force someone off point. I'd take short but adrenaline packed over long but boring any day.

[Mbelch.9028]

@"otto.5684" said:One shot for sure. You could argue that bunker meta caused more stagnation, but at least you won’t spend quarter the game downed or dead.

I don't get how people are saying this is a one-shot meta right now. It's a power meta, but that's what most of the playerbase, including myself, clamored for.I don't die more than 1-3 times per game, and I'm more of a bursty character.If you're getting farmed 1v1, then it's learn to play, not "one-shot meta." Not specifically directed at you, just directed at all those comments/commenters in general.

[Etheri.5406]

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@"otto.5684" said:One shot for sure. You could argue that bunker meta caused more stagnation, but at least you won’t spend quarter the game downed or dead.

I don't get how people are saying this is a one-shot meta right now. It's a power meta, but that's what most of the playerbase, including myself, clamored for.I don't die more than 1-3 times per game, and I'm more of a bursty character.If you're getting farmed 1v1, then it's learn to play, not "one-shot meta." Not specifically directed at you, just directed at all those comments/commenters in general.

To be honest, whenever I'm playing my 12k hp no mobility harrier FB I do occasionally get one shot. Probably something to do with outhealing everything that doesn't one shot me; and it's almost always a L2P issue if I get hit but hey.

To be honest, I think the harrier build is stronger for soloQ than the core guard one shot build :triumph:

[Blue.1207]

I don't think you understand how absurdly cancerous the "bunker" meta of Season 3 actually was. It came to the point where if you lost a node to your enemy team the game was more or less over (hyperbole, but on high skill games, not at all). Now we're contending with matchups that have the potential to be over far too quickly. Not sure if I enjoy it any more or less.

[Mbelch.9028]

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@"otto.5684" said:One shot for sure. You could argue that bunker meta caused more stagnation, but at least you won’t spend quarter the game downed or dead.

I don't get how people are saying this is a one-shot meta right now. It's a power meta, but that's what most of the playerbase, including myself, clamored for.I don't die more than 1-3 times per game, and I'm more of a bursty character.If you're getting farmed 1v1, then it's learn to play, not "one-shot meta." Not specifically directed at you, just directed at all those comments/commenters in general.

To be honest, whenver I'm playing my 12k hp no mobility harrier FB I do occasionally get one shot. Probably something to do with outhealing everything that doesn't one shot me; and it's almost always a L2P issue if I get hit but hey.

To be honest, I think the harrier build is stronger for soloQ than the core guard one shot build :triumph:

Right? I just don't get how people OCCASIONALLY getting bursted hard equates to a one-shot meta. Meta, in my opinion, means the majority of people are running it, and you see it overused in games.

I have come to believe people will just rail against whatever the current "meta" is. But I tend to like this meta. I've also been blown up about three or four times by a one-shot mesmer, but after he did it to me twice, I neutralized him the rest of the game because of how squish he was, and I knew what was coming. You can't say the same for a condi-bomb master or a pure bunker like Cele D/D ele was back in the day, or even some warrior builds, or even the turret point holder engineer.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Solori.6025 said:Nothin comes close to the horror of Cele ele, decap engi meta back in core.

Except the Immortal Chronos and Tempests back after HoT released, and up to season 3-ish.

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:Bunker meta was by far the worst, nothing like throwing in the towel once 2 points were capped and having 2 contested points for an entire match that ends due to timeout at 325-120.

The second worst was Condi, because matches became pretty much binary (conditions > team clear) or (conditions < team clear).

I am going to be honest, people complaining about the current meta probably have slower reflexes, which is a fair complaint because the current one is twitch friendly. The other metas were much slower in pace. I personally like faster paced matches/fights.

325? That's when you're lucky... At the height of it, during season 1, i've seen matches end with like 10-5 because everyone was playing an immortal bunker, so basically the first team to capture points would win since they'd spend the rest of the match as contested.

I'm going on a limb and wager that most people voting something other than bunker didn't play GW2 when pvp was good, and before/during the first couple seasons post-HoT.

[otto.5684]

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@"otto.5684" said:One shot for sure. You could argue that bunker meta caused more stagnation, but at least you won’t spend quarter the game downed or dead.

I don't get how people are saying this is a one-shot meta right now. It's a power meta, but that's what most of the playerbase, including myself, clamored for.I don't die more than 1-3 times per game, and I'm more of a bursty character.If you're getting farmed 1v1, then it's learn to play, not "one-shot meta." Not specifically directed at you, just directed at all those comments/commenters in general.

I understand, but one of the issues of the current meta is that allows games to allows games to become a run death bot runway effect. You can easily have the enemy team outnumbered the entire game after one successful wipe out. And if you are unlucky or being on a weaker team, you will be fighting outnumbered almost all game, making your ability to last in combat or having any minscule successes more difficult. Fairly competitive games will be okay in any meta, but these are like 1-2 every 10 games?

And honestly, getting downed by losing 50-60% of your hp in under 1 sec is not good design by any means.

Bunker meta in particular, for all it is issues, it allows for strategy and positioning to outplay brute force. Current meta, not much.

[Mbelch.9028]

@otto.5684 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@otto.5684 said:One shot for sure. You could argue that bunker meta caused more stagnation, but at least you won’t spend quarter the game downed or dead.

I don't get how people are saying this is a one-shot meta right now. It's a power meta, but that's what most of the playerbase, including myself, clamored for.I don't die more than 1-3 times per game, and I'm more of a bursty character.If you're getting farmed 1v1, then it's learn to play, not "one-shot meta." Not specifically directed at you, just directed at all those comments/commenters in general.

I understand, but one of the issues of the current meta is that allows games to allows games to become a run death bot runway effect. You can easily have the enemy team outnumbered the entire game after one successful wipe out. And if you are unlucky or being on a weaker team, you will be fighting outnumbered almost all game, making your ability to last in combat or having any minscule successes more difficult. Fairly competitive games will be okay in any meta, but these are like 1-2 every 10 games?

And honestly, getting downed by losing 50-60% of your hp in under 1 sec is not good design by any means.

Bunker meta in particular, for all it is issues, it allows for strategy and positioning to outplay brute force. Current meta, not much.

If you look at some of the comments from folks (like myself) who played through the bunker meta, I think you'll find that this is much more exciting and action-packed. The bunker meta led to AFKs on points, much less skilled play and overall boring matches. Some matches would go 10-0, some would be 100-80, but a common theme was matches being played to the timer with no real opportunity to influence/turn the game.

Today, I see skilled players influencing and turning games all the time. As you play more (you've admitted you only just did your first set of placements ever) you'll become one of those players and the "one-shot" builds will not seem super effective to you.

To address your comment about skill -- yes, those builds that can sap your health quickly don't require a ton of skill, although some require a bit of setup, but the way you react and eliminate them will show skill on your end, and make them pay for using what they are.

To address the snowballing, that is purely and simply the lack of skill in the game in general right now. Lower tiers don't know how to rotate well or handle being 1-man down. Almost every game, I see a mid fight won then three or four people head to far, only to die and get snowballed.

It all comes down to skill and knowledge.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Bunker is by far the worst and that is because the combat is boring and not engaging at all. In a high DPS meta, everything you do matters, right down to landing autos, or if you LoS at the right time or are a bit too late. This makes the combat very engaging and very fun in my opinion.

[Rap Tiger.1257]

This berserk goal is better than the others =)

[Mbelch.9028]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Bunker is by far the worst and that is because the combat is boring and not engaging at all. In a high DPS meta, everything you do matters, right down to landing autos, or if you LoS at the right time or are a bit too late. This makes the combat very engaging and very fun in my opinion.

Agreed. It's too fast for some people, as you can see here. Don't know what to say about that, other than with practice they'll get better.

[otto.5684]

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@otto.5684 said:One shot for sure. You could argue that bunker meta caused more stagnation, but at least you won’t spend quarter the game downed or dead.

I don't get how people are saying this is a one-shot meta right now. It's a power meta, but that's what most of the playerbase, including myself, clamored for.I don't die more than 1-3 times per game, and I'm more of a bursty character.If you're getting farmed 1v1, then it's learn to play, not "one-shot meta." Not specifically directed at you, just directed at all those comments/commenters in general.

I understand, but one of the issues of the current meta is that allows games to allows games to become a run death bot runway effect. You can easily have the enemy team outnumbered the entire game after one successful wipe out. And if you are unlucky or being on a weaker team, you will be fighting outnumbered almost all game, making your ability to last in combat or having any minscule successes more difficult. Fairly competitive games will be okay in any meta, but these are like 1-2 every 10 games?

And honestly, getting downed by losing 50-60% of your hp in under 1 sec is not good design by any means.

Bunker meta in particular, for all it is issues, it allows for strategy and positioning to outplay brute force. Current meta, not much.

If you look at some of the comments from folks (like myself) who played through the bunker meta, I think you'll find that this is much more exciting and action-packed. The bunker meta led to AFKs on points, much less skilled play and overall boring matches. Some matches would go 10-0, some would be 100-80, but a common theme was matches being played to the timer with no real opportunity to influence/turn the game.

Today, I see skilled players influencing and turning games all the time. As you play more (you've admitted you only just did your first set of placements ever) you'll become one of those players and the "one-shot" builds will not seem super effective to you.

To address your comment about skill -- yes, those builds that can sap your health quickly don't require a ton of skill, although some require a bit of setup, but the way you react and eliminate them will show skill on your end, and make them pay for using what they are.

To address the snowballing, that is purely and simply the lack of skill in the game in general right now. Lower tiers don't know how to rotate well or handle being 1-man down. Almost every game, I see a mid fight won then three or four people head to far, only to die and get snowballed.

It all comes down to skill and knowledge.

To be honest, I have not played sPvP as much during the few month leading to HoT and first few month after HoT, so I missed the most intense parts of the bunker meta. And I do not want a bunker meta to return either. But the key is to get to a balance state, where bunker builds can make a difference, but not stagnate the game. Condi builds are effective, but do not overtake the meta. Power builds are strong, but not uncounterable. Burst builds work, but do not down a target with more than 50% hp near instantaneously.

The real counter to snowballing is good match making system and a decent class balance standing. And most of the games I play currently end-up in a snowball due to lack of both. Though this is a different topic than this thread, the current meta surely intensify snowballing effects.

[Mbelch.9028]

@otto.5684 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@otto.5684 said:One shot for sure. You could argue that bunker meta caused more stagnation, but at least you won’t spend quarter the game downed or dead.

I don't get how people are saying this is a one-shot meta right now. It's a power meta, but that's what most of the playerbase, including myself, clamored for.I don't die more than 1-3 times per game, and I'm more of a bursty character.If you're getting farmed 1v1, then it's learn to play, not "one-shot meta." Not specifically directed at you, just directed at all those comments/commenters in general.

I understand, but one of the issues of the current meta is that allows games to allows games to become a run death bot runway effect. You can easily have the enemy team outnumbered the entire game after one successful wipe out. And if you are unlucky or being on a weaker team, you will be fighting outnumbered almost all game, making your ability to last in combat or having any minscule successes more difficult. Fairly competitive games will be okay in any meta, but these are like 1-2 every 10 games?

And honestly, getting downed by losing 50-60% of your hp in under 1 sec is not good design by any means.

Bunker meta in particular, for all it is issues, it allows for strategy and positioning to outplay brute force. Current meta, not much.

If you look at some of the comments from folks (like myself) who played through the bunker meta, I think you'll find that this is much more exciting and action-packed. The bunker meta led to AFKs on points, much less skilled play and overall boring matches. Some matches would go 10-0, some would be 100-80, but a common theme was matches being played to the timer with no real opportunity to influence/turn the game.

Today, I see skilled players influencing and turning games all the time. As you play more (you've admitted you only just did your first set of placements ever) you'll become one of those players and the "one-shot" builds will not seem super effective to you.

To address your comment about skill -- yes, those builds that can sap your health quickly don't require a ton of skill, although some require a bit of setup, but the way you react and eliminate them will show skill on your end, and make them pay for using what they are.

To address the snowballing, that is purely and simply the lack of skill in the game in general right now. Lower tiers don't know how to rotate well or handle being 1-man down. Almost every game, I see a mid fight won then three or four people head to far, only to die and get snowballed.

It all comes down to skill and knowledge.

To be honest, I have not played sPvP as much during the few month leading to HoT and first few month after HoT, so I missed the most intense parts of the bunker meta. And I do not want a bunker meta to return either. But the key is to get to a balance state, where bunker builds can make a difference, but not stagnate the game. Condi builds are effective, but do not overtake the meta. Power builds are strong, but not uncounterable. Burst builds work, but do not down a target with more than 50% hp near instantaneously.

The real counter to snowballing is good match making system and a decent class balance standing. And most of the games I play currently end-up in a snowball due to lack of both. Though this is a different topic than this thread, the current meta surely intensify snowballing effects.

I agree, snowballing happens a lot. It's happened to me. My thinking is it's because of composition of your party (which matchmaking has something to do with outside of ATs) and knowledge. You can impact both by being willing to switch classes/builds and by helping compensate for your team.

In the end it just comes back to: You can't win em all, but there's a reason the best of the best win more than you do and aren't complaining about losing streaks.

[Alatar.7364]

Not sure, I suppose it depends.

Bunker one is what kills competitiveness, it essentialy prevents the Match from having much meaning, greatly decreasing room for strategy during the match, which is what, at least Ranked, should be about. So, it's the most unhealthy one toward the essence of Conquest PvP.

Both Power and Condi are just the ones that make lot of people, including me, angry because of their broken 1v1 capabilities. (sometimes)

Tl;drBunker meta kills competitiveness of Conquest PvPThe others kill the fun of actual fights (mostly 1v1s), but not so much a strategy of competitive nature.

[The V.8759]

Remember when turret engineer, minionmancer, and cele were meta all at the same time. 3 bunker builds at the top. Most probably don't remember, that's a looooong time ago. But pepperidge farm remembers

[jportell.2197]

@The V.8759 said:Remember when turret engineer, minionmancer, and cele were meta all at the same time. 3 bunker builds at the top. Most probably don't remember, that's a looooong time ago. But pepperidge farm remembers

I remember. It was a time when my favorite class (Mesmer) was totally irrelevant. It didn't have a good bunker build and would still get instagibbed by thieves. But man it still made players rage

[The V.8759]

@jportell.2197 said:

@The V.8759 said:Remember when turret engineer, minionmancer, and cele were meta all at the same time. 3 bunker builds at the top. Most probably don't remember, that's a looooong time ago. But pepperidge farm remembers

I remember. It was a time when my favorite class (Mesmer) was totally irrelevant. It didn't have a good bunker build and would still get instagibbed by thieves. But man it still made players rage

Makes me nostalgic man. Im engi main and I loved the soldier rifle/nade build so much. Imagine if soldier amulet was in game these days. Would be full of bunkers

[MyPuppy.8970]

We went from an extreme to another one. I'm confident the fun lies in a middle ground - aka balance - aka strength comes with equivalent weaknesses. If you're resilient you shouldn't be able to burst. If you have 100-0 capability in under 2s, a simple aa from anyone should down you.

[Vornollo.5182]

While I think Bunker was the worst in terms of excitement... Condi was/is the worst to play with. As a Thief I could usually deal with most bunkers in matches quite alright most of the time.Bunker meta also required a certain degree of game knowledge and skill, while Condi has always felt (and still feels) rather brainless. Ofcourse, this varies per build. I found condi-chrono quite enjoyable due to the actual skill it took to be super-efficient with it, compared to it's power iterations at the time.

The one-shot meta..? Haven't really experienced it to any bothersome degree. Most of these builds require plenty of set-up and visual tells to actually work. Gives plenty of time to react. But maybe that's just me.

[Balsa.3951]

not sure if it was meta but Turret Engi was very popular for a while

[White Kitsunee.4620]

HoT DH reaper with support tempest giving semi permanent reflects wad always a nightmare for me.Then again I was playing burn engi so that might have had something to do with it.

[Rufo.3716]

There is no one shot power meta. Just because you run a zerker build and die quickly to burst doesn't mean it's a one shot meta. It just means you run a build with little survivability.