mesmer has too much control over a fight

[EUmad.7645]

@jihm.2315 said:in spvp but mostly in wvw they have too much map control they can engage disengage whenever they feel like stealth swap positions basically in an open map they are gods vs mortals they need drastic changes to be at the same level with other classes

which mesmer build are u referring to ?

[storm.3120]

@jihm.2315 said:in spvp but mostly in wvw they have too much map control they can engage disengage whenever they feel like stealth swap positions basically in an open map they are gods vs mortals they need drastic changes to be at the same level with other classes

If you came to cry about wvw go to wvw forum?

[whoknocks.4935]

@jihm.2315 said:you are not the only one that got nerfed and you are still the strongest class in the game

So much this, everytime there are general nerfs of all professions, mesmer always come out as winner with another broken build.

They nerfed condi mirage, immediately after power and bunker chrono entered the meta, they nerfed bunker chrono, guess what, condi mirage returned in the meta worse than before.

It is literally a parasite you can't get rid off.

I would't mind if it was a crazy difficult profession to play, for example the new Revenant Staff + Sword/Sword shines in WvW roaming right now, if you play it well you are a god, but it has a crazy high learning curve, and most of the times, one mistake and you die.

Condi mirage after one of two hours of gameplay you are already capable of killing better players than you. In WvW is much more evident.

It is not as braindead and spammy like scourge, but it goes very close.

[viquing.8254]

So much this, everytime there are general nerfs of all professions, mesmer always come out as winner with another broken build.Which apart to farm noobs, is poorly represented in the leaderboard and high level with the exeption of chronobunker 1.0, 2.0 and condi mirage 1.0 past seasons (which is few over 6 years.) because once you get the mesmer timings, it pretty easy to evade condi burst. That said, every time mermer is op we hear about it for ages whereas when you have pretty nice gards, war (other class) representation (before HoT, during Hot (DH pegi-4 meta), during PoF (FB and now core.).) there is way less crying. ( I should have mained gard btw.)Actually, you have 3.5 way to put some pressure :

• The torch burn : easy to evade versus someone who have the timings.
• 3 axes : obvious animation and without clone didn't do much pressure.
• F2 : biggest burst, shatter animation. An experienced player never stay into clones ready to shatter.
• (Axe ambush) : good torment pressure but burn evade for it. Any experienced player who see evade burn will burst just after the evade end. Moreover, it needs some clones to do something good and clone can die easily before.

Then you have other class. Let see rev as you mention it : it has a much better learning curve but once you get it, each of your attacks do pressure and you can be much more deadly than mes with the only real weakness being condi.

When you look at output, condi mirage isn't that good. Do the following test :Take any of the good represented class last season : gard, engi, rev, war (with their average rotation done (might boon etc.).)Do their classic burst on an motionless mesmer and see in how much clics & seconds they kill it.Then take a condimirage, burst on a motionless above class on see in how much clics&seconds they kill it.These outputs aren't representative of all the class (mobility, dispell, cc, etc have an impact.).But it's an interesting test who highlights why mesmers have a low learning curve with a gap when oponnents become skilled and who becomes usefull again only in the hands of very good players. (I'am talking about the current meta, we are not in chronobunker or op mirage meta.)

for example the ~~new ~~ old Revenant Staff + Sword/SwordFixed it because it's not that new gameplay view. (yes there were little traits/spell change but it's always the same base, it's not like if it was shortbow :p .)

Condi mirage after one of two hours of gameplay you are already capable of killing better players than you.You are just capable of killing average players. Better players will hit you between the dodges and you will die pretty fast.

Seems the only solution is to become again a portal bot class...

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Let's put in pratice what I learned on nerf holo thread:

• Condi Mirage has okaish damage, good survival and average mobility.
• All top mesmers hate mirage cloak and would gladly give it up for something else. With mirage cloak you'll end up wasting dodges to be offensive leaving you fragile.
• Blurred Frenzy get's you killed if enemy has retaliation on, it's an awful skill really.
• Distortion makes you give up all clones you need to do damage with for defense and what's worse as soon as distortion ends you need to dodge because you're going to get bursted!

Stop wanting to nerf skilled professions!

(see, that's the impression you made on your thread holos).

[storm.3120]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Let's put in pratice what I learned on nerf holo thread:

• Condi Mirage has okaish damage, good survival and average mobility.
• All top mesmers hate mirage cloak and would gladly give it up for something else. With mirage cloak you'll end up wasting dodges to be offensive leaving you fragile.
• Blurred Frenzy get's you killed if enemy has retaliation on, it's an awful skill really.
• Distortion makes you give up all clones you need to do damage with for defense and what's worse as soon as distortion ends you need to dodge because you're going to get bursted!

Stop wanting to nerf skilled professions!

(see, that's the impression you made on your thread holos).

Heh ,good points ;)Still should begone to his beloved wvw and keep spamming his threads there

[Burnfall.9573]

"For every effect there is a root cause.Find and address the root cause rather thantry to fix the effect, as thereis no endto the latter"

Until Mesmer's are redesign from the ground up, there are no end to their toxicity

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:tbh i think mesmers are ok in spvp now

Take a good look at condi mirage with axe/x and x/pistol and then tell me if they're ok in sPvP.

Assuming that the first mirage is rank 43 and there is a mesmer every 40 place, no doubt it's fine ...And about op, it's been since launch that thieves do that.If the same level as other class is being 2 shoted by gard's purge, then just remove the class please.

Balance should be aimed to the average players range, not top rankers and in the average players level, mesmer is OP.

The average player also thinks retaliation is a problem. . . .PvP balance should not be aimed for the lower portion of the totem pole.

I'd argue that PvP balance aimed at the lower portion of the totem pole is what created Mirage's trait design in the first place and elevated Chronomancer to its recent toxicity.

[Solori.6025]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@"Malafaia.8903" said:tbh i think mesmers are ok in spvp now

Take a good look at condi mirage with axe/x and x/pistol and then tell me if they're ok in sPvP.

Assuming that the first mirage is rank 43 and there is a mesmer every 40 place, no doubt it's fine ...And about op, it's been since launch that thieves do that.If the same level as other class is being 2 shoted by gard's purge, then just remove the class please.

Balance should be aimed to the average players range, not top rankers and in the average players level, mesmer is OP.

The average player also thinks retaliation is a problem. . . .PvP balance should not be aimed for the lower portion of the totem pole.

I'd argue that PvP balance aimed at the lower portion of the totem pole is what created Mirage's trait design in the first place and elevated Chronomancer to its recent toxicity.

Chronomancers "recent" rise was quickly met with a nerf to every trait and skill that made it viable. I havent seen a chronomancer build after that, that would be considered viable. Mirages trait design or specifically one trait on mirage has been a problem sine inception.But I do agree with you. I think every class elite from PoF was designed and targeted for the bottom of the totem pole.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@"Malafaia.8903" said:tbh i think mesmers are ok in spvp now

Take a good look at condi mirage with axe/x and x/pistol and then tell me if they're ok in sPvP.

Assuming that the first mirage is rank 43 and there is a mesmer every 40 place, no doubt it's fine ...And about op, it's been since launch that thieves do that.If the same level as other class is being 2 shoted by gard's purge, then just remove the class please.

Balance should be aimed to the average players range, not top rankers and in the average players level, mesmer is OP.

The average player also thinks retaliation is a problem. . . .PvP balance should not be aimed for the lower portion of the totem pole.

I'd argue that PvP balance aimed at the lower portion of the totem pole is what created Mirage's trait design in the first place and elevated Chronomancer to its recent toxicity.

Chronomancers "recent" rise was quickly met with a nerf to every trait and skill that made it viable. I havent seen a chronomancer build after that, that would be considered viable. Mirages trait design or specifically one trait on mirage has been a problem sine inception.But I do agree with you. I think

every

class elite from PoF was designed and targeted for the bottom of the totem pole.

Inclined to agree with that with the exception of weaver and renegade. Those are both apparently harder.

[Solori.6025]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@"Malafaia.8903" said:tbh i think mesmers are ok in spvp now

Take a good look at condi mirage with axe/x and x/pistol and then tell me if they're ok in sPvP.

Assuming that the first mirage is rank 43 and there is a mesmer every 40 place, no doubt it's fine ...And about op, it's been since launch that thieves do that.If the same level as other class is being 2 shoted by gard's purge, then just remove the class please.

Balance should be aimed to the average players range, not top rankers and in the average players level, mesmer is OP.

The average player also thinks retaliation is a problem. . . .PvP balance should not be aimed for the lower portion of the totem pole.

I'd argue that PvP balance aimed at the lower portion of the totem pole is what created Mirage's trait design in the first place and elevated Chronomancer to its recent toxicity.

Chronomancers "recent" rise was quickly met with a nerf to every trait and skill that made it viable. I havent seen a chronomancer build after that, that would be considered viable. Mirages trait design or specifically one trait on mirage has been a problem sine inception.But I do agree with you. I think

every

class elite from PoF was designed and targeted for the bottom of the totem pole.

Inclined to agree with that with the exception of weaver and renegade. Those are both apparently harder.

I would agree with that exception as well

[Ryan.9387]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Solori.6025 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:tbh i think mesmers are ok in spvp now

Take a good look at condi mirage with axe/x and x/pistol and then tell me if they're ok in sPvP.

Assuming that the first mirage is rank 43 and there is a mesmer every 40 place, no doubt it's fine ...And about op, it's been since launch that thieves do that.If the same level as other class is being 2 shoted by gard's purge, then just remove the class please.

Balance should be aimed to the average players range, not top rankers and in the average players level, mesmer is OP.

The average player also thinks retaliation is a problem. . . .PvP balance should not be aimed for the lower portion of the totem pole.

I'd argue that PvP balance aimed at the lower portion of the totem pole is what created Mirage's trait design in the first place and elevated Chronomancer to its recent toxicity.

quickly met with a nerf to every trait and skill that made it viable.

Hah!

[Sleepwalker.1398]

Oh hey look its OP again with another rant/nerf thread.While i will must admit that Mirage not Mesmer is abit overtuned, OP thinks every class should be nerf besides Ele.Here's one against thieves in the WvW thread and looking at his/her history all he/she does is complain about all classes except eles.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/50904/thief-stealth-abuse#latest

[Absinthey.5340]

@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:Oh hey look its OP again with another rant/nerf thread.While i will must admit that Mirage not Mesmer is abit overtuned, OP thinks every class should be nerf besides Ele.Here's one against thieves in the WvW thread and looking at his/her history all he/she does is complain about all classes except eles.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/50904/thief-stealth-abuse#latest

Ele hasn't needed a nerf since vanilla. Since that's a fact, it in no way diminishes the OP's post.

[Malafaia.8903]

@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:Oh hey look its OP again with another rant/nerf thread.While i will must admit that Mirage not Mesmer is abit overtuned, OP thinks every class should be nerf besides Ele.Here's one against thieves in the WvW thread and looking at his/her history all he/she does is complain about all classes except eles.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/50904/thief-stealth-abuse#latest

well, eles really need a buff or... a nerf to all classes?

[necromaniac.7629]

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:tbh i think mesmers are ok in spvp now

Take a good look at condi mirage with axe/x and x/pistol and then tell me if they're ok in sPvP.Brah I find it weird that people still playing axe mirage, that's just boring and cheesy, I just avoid them although i'm mirage too

[BadMed.3846]

@Malafaia.8903 said:

@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:Oh hey look its OP again with another rant/nerf thread.While i will must admit that Mirage not Mesmer is abit overtuned, OP thinks every class should be nerf besides Ele.Here's one against thieves in the WvW thread and looking at his/her history all he/she does is complain about all classes except eles.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/50904/thief-stealth-abuse#latest

well, eles really need a buff or... a nerf to all classes?

Eles need a redesign. No buff will help. Mesmers need 50% reduction to get out of jail free cards. 50% damage reduction too. That will bring them to a level playing field.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

This all boils down to people not playing mesmer or classes that give them problems, took me a good week or so to get use to mirage cloak and the Condi rotations. I mainly play core s/d thief and back in hot I use to have problems vs scrapper/reaper/dh then I decided to play them and found out the weakness and or able to reliably know which skills to dodge and which skills you can take a hit and the fights with the same people became a lot more easier/fluid on my side. Having the same issue again with holo/soulbeast/and firebrand but that's me trying to pressure them as I'm not sure when to steal and do my stuff. People just refuse to play mesmer and I don't mean 1 or 2 times a month, people need to play it and get the muscle memory in their system and not having to panic and think too much. Sure more skilled people will still win but that's how it should be.

[Malafaia.8903]

@BadMed.3846 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:

@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:Oh hey look its OP again with another rant/nerf thread.While i will must admit that Mirage not Mesmer is abit overtuned, OP thinks every class should be nerf besides Ele.Here's one against thieves in the WvW thread and looking at his/her history all he/she does is complain about all classes except eles.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/50904/thief-stealth-abuse#latest

well, eles really need a buff or... a nerf to all classes?

Eles need a redesign. No buff will help. Mesmers need 50% reduction to get out of jail free cards. 50% damage reduction too. That will bring them to a level playing field.

@BadMed.3846 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:

@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:Oh hey look its OP again with another rant/nerf thread.While i will must admit that Mirage not Mesmer is abit overtuned, OP thinks every class should be nerf besides Ele.Here's one against thieves in the WvW thread and looking at his/her history all he/she does is complain about all classes except eles.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/50904/thief-stealth-abuse#latest

well, eles really need a buff or... a nerf to all classes?

Eles need a redesign. No buff will help. Mesmers need 50% reduction to get out of jail free cards. 50% damage reduction too. That will bring them to a level playing field.

In your opinion mesmers should have their damage and sustain gutted by half? You really knows what "50%" means? Come on...About eles: define "redesign". What is so wrong in the concept of ele that can't be leveraged with some kind of buff?Cleanses that don't depends on getting the water traitline, this is what i think would change ele builds at a point of putting the class "into the game" again.