Writ of Experience vs. Potion of WvW Rewards

[Turkeyspit.3965]

I was contemplating this issue earlier this morning while doing my dailies. I'm not discussing sPvP as I don't have any experience in that game mode.

When it's time to do Daily Completionist, I 'used' to do as many easy PvE dailies as possible (eg. vistas and gathering dailies) and then head into WvW on my roamer for a quick 5 mins and get the last one I needed. A few months back I decided to store any WvW Rewards potions I earned this way, just to see how long it would take to accumulate 80 (the number needed to complete a reward track from 0 - 20,000 pts), and that prompted me to try and get 4/4 WvW dailies done as often as possible.

As I looked over one of the WvW reward tracks this morning, it suddenly hit me that the value of the daily reward is much better in WvW than in PvE.

In PvE: in addition to crafting materials tied to the type of daily (lumber for daily lumberer, etc), you get 1 Writ of Experience. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Writ_of_Experience)PvE dailies done in HoT / PoF maps instead reward a consumable that gives mastery XP (which is basically the same thing)In WvW: in addition to some badges of honor and resonating slivers, you get between 1 or 2 Potions of WvW Rewards (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potion_of_WvW_Rewards)

The disparity as I see it is that over time, the Writ of Experience (HoT/PoF mastery) becomes virtually worthless while the WvW Reward potion will always maintain a high value.

The problem is that Writs can only be used for 2 things:1- to give an XP bump to a character you're leveling2- to convert to a Tome of Knowledge and then turned in on a max level character for a Spirit Shard.

As someone who has only been playing for 6 months, I have zero use for either. My characters are max level, I have all my HoT and PoF masteries complete, and I have over 2000 shards in my wallet. If I did decide to level a new character, I already have about 200 tomes of knowledge sitting in my bank already because of WvW rewards. (YMMV)

In comparison, the WvW potions will never lack value to me. I can use them to quickly complete a reward track, which can reward me with, depending on my track choice:

• Exotic Weapons / Gear from dungeons (salvageable for dark matter / insignias) + dungeon tokens + skins for achievement completion
• HoT / PoF map currency + expansion specific gear
• LW 3 / LW 4 materials + map currency + seasons specific gear
• Legendary crafting materials such as Mystic Coins, Mystic Clovers, Obsidian Shards, and of course, the Gift of Battle
• WvW currency used in crafting, or to purchase items from the vendors such as Cultural Armor, bags, Runes / Sigils, etc.

I mean they aren't even comparable in value....

I realize that the WvW chests don't reward crafting mats, but you do get salvageable items from the chests earned while completing a reward track, so I would bet they even out.

One could argue that the PvE dailies are easier and almost completely soloable, but I would refute that, as some of the WvW dailies like Caravan Disruptor and Land Claimer are so easy, any player on any profession can complete them, and do so with a high chance of not even bumping into another player (depending on time of day / server).

Perhaps it is time to re-think the Writ of XP as the daily PvE reward to something that would remain valuable to both new and veteran players alike?

A thought I had was to change the Writ to a lesser version of the Pact Scout's Mapping material (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pact_Scout%27s_Mapping_Materials), but instead of rewarding 200 map bonus reward points, it instead would reward 100 (or 50?).

Such an item would at least remain valuable to all players, whether those who are accumulating crafting mats for leveling, a Legendary, or for those who want to cash in and sell the bonus map rewards on the TP.

[Arioch.4810]

If you are willing to burn some silvers for TP fees, PvE dailies are somewhat "simpler" to do in terms of time needed. (oK, except for big spender, for that one you just log on)I'm ok with slight disparity in rewards value but i tend to do all the dailies anyway. Yes, i know i have a problem :)

[Hesacon.8735]

Spvp potions are exactly as useful as the wvw ones, if that helps.

A pve equivalent to the potions would be those scrolls that grant a map bonus reward, since map bonuses are the pve equivalent of rewards tracks. Right now the scrolls must be purchased by map hopping and spending karma at specific vendors.

[preacher.9370]

The istan, sandswept ilses, and kourna reward tracks do give raw crafting materials. istan and sandswept give leather, metal, cloth and wood chests, but seem to be more generous with the common materials, i.e. mithril, elder wood, silk (think i get at least 50, 10-20 of other materials)... And for some reason Anet did not bring back the wood chest for the kourna track.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@preacher.9370 said:The istan, sandswept ilses, and kourna reward tracks do give raw crafting materials. istan and sandswept give leather, metal, cloth and wood chests, but seem to be more generous with the common materials, i.e. mithril, elder wood, silk (think i get at least 50, 10-20 of other materials)... And for some reason Anet did not bring back the wood chest for the kourna track.

I haven't done any dailies in those chapters as yet, so thank you for the info!

@Hesacon.8735 said:Spvp potions are exactly as useful as the wvw ones, if that helps.

A pve equivalent to the potions would be those scrolls that grant a map bonus reward, since map bonuses are the pve equivalent of rewards tracks. Right now the scrolls must be purchased by map hopping and spending karma at specific vendors.

Great! And that's exactly the suggestion I offered as a potential change in my OP :)

[Ashantara.8731]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Perhaps it is time to re-think the Writ of XP as the daily PvE reward to something that would remain valuable to both new and veteran players alike?

Since the meta often changes (besides the many legendaries I have crafted and sold), I am always running short on Spirit Shards (currently have only 2!). Therefore, I wouldn't mind if people could chose between different daily rewards, but I wouldn't want to do completely without the Writs of XP (although it takes about a week to get enough for a Spirit Shard via Tome of XP).

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Perhaps it is time to re-think the Writ of XP as the daily PvE reward to something that would remain valuable to both new and veteran players alike?

Since the meta often changes (besides the many legendaries I have crafted and sold), I am

always

running short on Spirit Shards (currently have only 2!). Therefore, I wouldn't mind if people could chose between different daily rewards, but I wouldn't want to do completely without the Writs of XP (although it takes about a week to get enough for a Spirit Shard via Tome of XP).

Don't forget you get 3 Spirit Shards for completing Daily Completionist. Using your own math then, you could earn 15 shards by doing 4x core tyria dailies for 5 days in the time it takes to earn 1 shard via 20x Writs turned into 1x Tome. The tome doesn't seem all that helpful in keeping you topped up o_0

[Ashantara.8731]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Don't forget you get 3 Spirit Shards for completing Daily Completionist.

I didn't forget that (how could I since I am doing dailies every day). All I said is that the extra XP from writs should remain a reward option and that I wouldn't mind if additional options were added.

[YoukiNeko.6047]

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I was contemplating this issue earlier this morning while doing my dailies. I'm not discussing sPvP as I don't have any experience in that game mode.

When it's time to do Daily Completionist, I 'used' to do as many easy PvE dailies as possible (eg. vistas and gathering dailies) and then head into WvW on my roamer for a quick 5 mins and get the last one I needed. A few months back I decided to store any WvW Rewards potions I earned this way, just to see how long it would take to accumulate 80 (the number needed to complete a reward track from 0 - 20,000 pts), and that prompted me to try and get 4/4 WvW dailies done as often as possible.

As I looked over one of the WvW reward tracks this morning, it suddenly hit me that the value of the daily reward is much better in WvW than in PvE.

In PvE: in addition to crafting materials tied to the type of daily (lumber for daily lumberer, etc), you get 1 Writ of Experience. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Writ_of_Experience)PvE dailies done in HoT / PoF maps instead reward a consumable that gives mastery XP (which is basically the same thing)In WvW: in addition to some badges of honor and resonating slivers, you get between 1 or 2 Potions of WvW Rewards (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potion_of_WvW_Rewards)

The disparity as I see it is that over time, the Writ of Experience (HoT/PoF mastery) becomes virtually worthless while the WvW Reward potion will always maintain a high value.

The problem is that Writs can only be used for 2 things:1- to give an XP bump to a character you're leveling2- to convert to a Tome of Knowledge and then turned in on a max level character for a Spirit Shard.

As someone who has only been playing for 6 months, I have zero use for either. My characters are max level, I have all my HoT and PoF masteries complete, and I have over 2000 shards in my wallet. If I did decide to level a new character, I already have about 200 tomes of knowledge sitting in my bank already because of WvW rewards. (YMMV)

In comparison, the WvW potions will never lack value to me. I can use them to quickly complete a reward track, which can reward me with, depending on my track choice:

• Exotic Weapons / Gear from dungeons (salvageable for dark matter / insignias) + dungeon tokens + skins for achievement completion
• HoT / PoF map currency + expansion specific gear
• LW 3 / LW 4 materials + map currency + seasons specific gear
• Legendary crafting materials such as Mystic Coins, Mystic Clovers, Obsidian Shards, and of course, the Gift of Battle
• WvW currency used in crafting, or to purchase items from the vendors such as Cultural Armor, bags, Runes / Sigils, etc.

I mean they aren't even comparable in value....

I realize that the WvW chests don't reward crafting mats, but you do get salvageable items from the chests earned while completing a reward track, so I would bet they even out.

One could argue that the PvE dailies are easier and almost completely soloable, but I would refute that, as some of the WvW dailies like Caravan Disruptor and Land Claimer are so easy, any player on any profession can complete them, and do so with a high chance of not even bumping into another player (depending on time of day / server).

Perhaps it is time to re-think the Writ of XP as the daily PvE reward to something that would remain valuable to both new and veteran players alike?

A thought I had was to change the Writ to a lesser version of the Pact Scout's Mapping material (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pact_Scout%27s_Mapping_Materials), but instead of rewarding 200 map bonus reward points, it instead would reward 100 (or 50?).

Such an item would at least remain valuable to all players, whether those who are accumulating crafting mats for leveling, a Legendary, or for those who want to cash in and sell the bonus map rewards on the TP.

By making the PvP and WvW dailies more rewarding more players might try them.

[Lonecap.4105]

"As I looked over one of the WvW reward tracks this morning, it suddenly hit me that the value of the daily reward is much better in WvW than in PvE."

Literally the ONE thing we have over PvE in terms of rewards... In PvE you can make 30g an hour. In WvW it's more like 2g an hour.

[Hesacon.8735]

I wish I knew how to spend spirit shards, I have about a dozen legendary items and 10k shards passively collected.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Players can currently earn gold with spirit shards which benefits both new and verteran players.

https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/spirit-shards

[Loosmaster.8263]

I'm working on my 5th stack of Tomes and over 7k shards in my wallet and a 5th stack of Skirmish chests. 19 mill plus Karma. I have been accused of being a hoarder by my guildies, lol

[Aurochys.5691]

Good points being raised here. I'm neither for, nor against, the proposed change as I tend to just log on and mess around without looking too much into the details but its interesting none the less.

[Khisanth.2948]

That depends on which point you are comparing with.

If you are actively playing in WvW a potion gives around 6 minutes worth of progress.

The writ is about 1 event's worth of exp.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

The most WvW XP you can get in one day's dailies is 1500. That means three rewards. There are days (notably, when Keep Capturer is up), when despite a long play session, someone may only get two rewards via the daily WvW XP jugs.

Sometimes, a reward will be a couple of chests or the end-of-track armor/weapon/whatever. Other times it will be siege. Still others it will be a tome. It is debatable whether all of those are better than what is on offer in the PvE daily rewards. However, for the sake of argument, let's assume that the WvW rewards are better, overall.

Once the dailies are done, WvW play devolves back to needing to advance tracks (done over time, based on level of participation) and the rewards, while better than PvE daily rewards, are still not even close to comparable to the rewards a PvE player can go back to getting -- in places like SW, AB or Istan. I'm not complaining, the discrepancy is smaller than it was. However, it is there. I need to do inventory management a lot less in WvW than in PvE, and that's because the stuff PvE throws at players comes in much greater quantities.

To a WvW-only or even a WvW-predominantly player, what the thread is complaining about sounds like, "For one very small part of a day's play, WvW rewards are seen as a wee bit better than PvE players get. We can't have that. ANet, please fix. PvE play has to be as rewarding as WvW play at all times, even though it is a lot more rewarding 90% of the time."

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The comparison by the OP misses the reason that there are reward tracks in the first place: it's a lot harder to earn value for your account in PvP & WvW. As someone else mentioned, there are no 20-30g/hour farms, there aren't 20 minute activities that generate 5-10 gold (or a bunch of currency). In PvE, you get some sort of loot for anything you do except sneezing or chatting, whereas in WvW and (mostly) in PvP, you have to spend more attention. (On average; of course, there will be exceptions in all game modes.)

So it might be true that WvW/PvP dailies include some trivial ones with a really valuable potion, but, as someone else said, that's the one time the comparison is in favor of PvP/WvW.

tl;dr rewards in PvE are already strong, so they don't need to be supplemented by potions

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:To a WvW-only or even a WvW-predominantly player, what the thread is complaining about sounds like, "For one very small part of a day's play, WvW rewards are seen as a wee bit better than PvE players get. We can't have that. ANet, please fix. PvE play has to be as rewarding as WvW play at all times, even though it is a lot more rewarding 90% of the time."

You might read the thread differently if you take off your "I am a victim" sunglasses. No one is oppressing you here.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

tl;dr rewards in PvE are already strong, so they don't need to be supplemented by potions

And improving PvE rewards would affect you how exactly? I wasn't suggesting taking anything away from WvW was I? No one is oppressing you here either.

Seriously, we need a victims support group for some WvW players on this forum.

Ah well, I thought this was going to generate a lively discussion, but it has simply degenerated to "u already haz better stfu" dribble. My bad.

Please lock the thread at your convenience. I'm out.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

tl;dr rewards in PvE are already strong, so they don't need to be supplemented by potions

And improving PvE rewards would affect you how exactly?

It would benefit me strongly. I have nothing against the idea. I was explaining why the company that makes the game isn't likely to agree there's an issue.

I wasn't suggesting taking anything away from WvW was I?

I wasn't arguing that something is taken away from WvW.

No one is oppressing you here either.No one is expressing any sort of sense of oppression, except the OP, who doesn't seem to be interested in other opinions.

---

Ah well, I thought this was going to generate a lively discussion, but it has simply degenerated to "u already haz better kitten" dribble. My bad.It could be a lively discussion if you were willing to consider the possibility that other people's views on the topic have merit.

Please lock the thread at your convenience. I'm out.That's an odd reaction. If you think your concept has merit, it doesn't matter what any of us say: it's worth posting. And discussing. By saying you're "out" at the first sign of disagreement, it suggests you yourself don't much believe in your own idea, which begs the question: why should anyone else care about it?

[Khisanth.2948]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:To a WvW-only or even a WvW-predominantly player, what the thread is complaining about sounds like, "For one very small part of a day's play, WvW rewards are seen as a wee bit better than PvE players get. We can't have that. ANet, please fix. PvE play has to be as rewarding as WvW play at all times, even though it is a lot more rewarding 90% of the time."

You might read the thread differently if you take off your "I am a victim" sunglasses. No one is oppressing you here.

The thread is written in form of "PvE is not the best in every possible situation. This must be fixed." Seems fair.

You have also left out all the filler materials like the boxes of bags that ultimately give you 2 blues and a green.