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Fix Deadeye Stealth or get rid of Stealth Traps

Heibi.4251

By Heibi.4251
in World vs. World

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@Dante.1763 said:

many classes have options to apply stealth to themselves or even allies. this would make it easier to hunt such a thief. but it wouldnt lock the thief out of their build like reveal does. thief vs thief fights would also be interesting because once you hit the other thief you drop out of stealth :3

3 classes outside thief can do it: Mesmer can apply stealth to itself and to others, Ranger can apply stealth to itself with one skill(lasts 3s), and Engi which has stealth Gyro(lasts 5s). i wouldnt say thats many classes, and..outside of mesmer not that great of a solution.

your again looking at it from a 1 vs 1 perspective. in such a situation reveals dont matter much, maybe sic em tho the dmg modifier part is the issue then not reveal.if you could see a thief once stealthed, the thief itself could cannot avoid you seeing them. and any profession can be in stealth. sure you might not be able to apply stealth to yourself, but you can be stealthed.yesterday i had for hours 3-4 scrappers , 2 rangers , 2 mesmer and a few more trying to get me out of air keep. i sometimes even got revealed by a scrapper or a trap yet allways in a way that they couldnt utilize it. the ones that would have been a threat are the rangers and mesmers yet i made sure i dont get revealed with them near me. now if you could see stealthed opponents in stealth, then the scrappers could have just applied stealth to the rangers/mesmers and i would be dead in no time.

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RedShark.9548

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

^^ So much this!! LOL. That is what it boils down to. The people that defend broken mechanics just don't want their playstyle to change. I get it. It's nice when you are OP and nobody can stop you. Makes you feel good.

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

i feared you wouldnt understand.it is a different scenario in the same mode where you are confronted with the same options, to show you that those options you have to pick from are not exclusive to your deadeye in a keep issue so you maybe see it in a similar way.i understand that you want to stick to your warrior because reasons, thats fine. i also gathered from your previous posts that you enjoy doing stuff with your warrior that he is not build for like solo roaming, wich is also fine as it is a game and as long as you have fun go for it. but this also means you will end up in a situation were your setup is suboptimal. like your alone with an opposing thief in your keep or your with pugs all on solo builds against a coordinated group with a teamcomp. in such a situation you have several options : you can just accept it as it is, change nothing and lose or you can change your setup: your build , the numbers you run with etc. or you can (because this is a teammode) ask someone of your server with the better setup to deal with it.

i certainly dont fear my permastealth being nerfed only because some people refuse to play efficiently. i dont really think that anet will take serious actions against it considering the deadeye rework wich put a greater emphasize on stealth and if they still do nerf it, then i will just play something else you will probably complain about. because you dont play efficiently, you stick to your warrior, i dont stick to my thief, i stick to what i think is efficient wich means unless your warrior is best at what your doing with it, you will complain about whatever i do. i just try to explain to you your options and why it probably wont get nerfed and sometimes i try to suggest more realitic changes to adress a specific issue people have. just look at this thread a ton of people want anti stealth trap to be unremoveable basically by deadeye elite, first i want to know what for. so its mostly about hiding in keeps. being able to remove such a trap gives the deadeye a feeling of safety wich increases the chance that he leaves stealth. if i know i cant remove the effect of the trap, how are you going to make me trigger it ? it wont solve your issue and a 'little group' as you said above still wont be able to get the deadeye out of the keep better than they are now. right now if i have a presistent group that just wont leave, i start killing them - i wouldnt do that with such a change. attacking them is a huge chance for them to kill me. i never trigger a trap without fighting. but if i cant remove the trap, i wont fight aside from the lord when nobody is there. i neither think making the trap reveal unremovable will fix the issue nor that it is likely to happen.

what i wonder tho is how many deadeyes are actually out there solo flipping keeps and towers? i mean i know i am. but its soo rare that an opposing deadeye is in one of our towers or a keep and actually able to flip it let alone hide himself. i think i cant remember seeing 1 opposing deadeye do that so far. i had one attack me inside my keep when i did know he was there, he opened with a 5k hit and dropped instantly to me returning the same skill. - highly doubt he would have been able to kill that lord.

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RedShark.9548

RedShark.9548

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

i feared you wouldnt understand.it is a different scenario in the same mode where you are confronted with the same options, to show you that those options you have to pick from are not exclusive to your deadeye in a keep issue so you maybe see it in a similar way.i understand that you want to stick to your warrior because reasons, thats fine. i also gathered from your previous posts that you enjoy doing stuff with your warrior that he is not build for like solo roaming, wich is also fine as it is a game and as long as you have fun go for it. but this also means you will end up in a situation were your setup is suboptimal. like your alone with an opposing thief in your keep or your with pugs all on solo builds against a coordinated group with a teamcomp. in such a situation you have several options : you can just accept it as it is, change nothing and lose or you can change your setup: your build , the numbers you run with etc. or you can (because this is a teammode) ask someone of your server with the better setup to deal with it.

i certainly dont fear my permastealth being nerfed only because some people refuse to play efficiently. i dont really think that anet will take serious actions against it considering the deadeye rework wich put a greater emphasize on stealth and if they still do nerf it, then i will just play something else you will probably complain about. because you dont play efficiently, you stick to your warrior, i dont stick to my thief, i stick to what i think is efficient wich means unless your warrior is best at what your doing with it, you will complain about whatever i do. i just try to explain to you your options and why it probably wont get nerfed and sometimes i try to suggest more realitic changes to adress a specific issue people have. just look at this thread a ton of people want anti stealth trap to be unremoveable basically by deadeye elite, first i want to know what for. so its mostly about hiding in keeps. being able to remove such a trap gives the deadeye a feeling of safety wich increases the change that he leaves stealth. if i know i cant remove the effect of the trap, how are you going to make me trigger it ? it wont solve your issue and a 'little group' as you said above still wont be able to get the deadeye out of the keep better than they are now. right now if i have a presistent group that just wont leave, i start killing them - i wouldnt do that with such a change. attacking them is a huge chance for them to kill me. i never trigger a trap without fighting. but if i cant remove the trap, i wont fight aside from the lord when nobody is there.

what i wonder tho is how many deadeyes are actually out there solo flipping keeps and towers? i mean i know i am. but its soo rare that an opposing deadeye is in one of our towers or a keep and actually able to flip it let alone hide himself. i think i cant remember seeing 1 deadeye do that so far. i had one attack me inside my keep when i did know he was there, he opened with a 5k hit and dropped instantly to me returning the same skill. - highly doubt he would have been able to kill that lord.

tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againeven if its just a small number of thiefs doing it, is no excuse fir making it possible, im not even saying that you shouldnt ve able to flip it solo, but you shouldnt be able to keep several ppl for minutes inside their own keep just because of your broken thief mechanic, this has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)

just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanic

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@RedShark.9548 said:tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againthis has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)it has alot to do with your warrior. you assume that you can build your warrior to be efficient in this mode in solo roaming. because what people define as 'meta' for roaming is far away from a meta for roaming if the mode was played competitive. because to play that mode really competitive it would need to provide equal teams, for example full maps for the entire matchup - thats impossible for a 7 days long match unless with extreme queues. but if you had full maps all the time and tried to do your best to win that match, the focus would be much more on the structures and you wouldnt play solo on your warrior.just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanici am not defending it. i couldnt care less about what is happening with it.i just tell you your options to deal with it and why it likely wont be changed aswell as why it wont fix your issue.but you refuse to read because you know i am part of your issue. read it and come up with a suggestion that is both likely and actually fixing your issue.just your QQ wont get you anywhere, so 'just stop'.

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@Shadowcat.2680 said:

what do you say to this suggestion: remove all reveals from skills, only reveal source is selfinflicted from attacking. but when you are in stealth you can see stealthed opponents.

Stealth could be its own shadowy world like when Frodo puts on the One Ring in the LotR movies. :)

Like the view changes with Death Shroud.

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

i feared you wouldnt understand.it is a different scenario in the same mode where you are confronted with the same options, to show you that those options you have to pick from are not exclusive to your deadeye in a keep issue so you maybe see it in a similar way.i understand that you want to stick to your warrior because reasons, thats fine. i also gathered from your previous posts that you enjoy doing stuff with your warrior that he is not build for like solo roaming, wich is also fine as it is a game and as long as you have fun go for it. but this also means you will end up in a situation were your setup is suboptimal. like your alone with an opposing thief in your keep or your with pugs all on solo builds against a coordinated group with a teamcomp. in such a situation you have several options : you can just accept it as it is, change nothing and lose or you can change your setup: your build , the numbers you run with etc. or you can (because this is a teammode) ask someone of your server with the better setup to deal with it.

i certainly dont fear my permastealth being nerfed only because some people refuse to play efficiently. i dont really think that anet will take serious actions against it considering the deadeye rework wich put a greater emphasize on stealth and if they still do nerf it, then i will just play something else you will probably complain about. because you dont play efficiently, you stick to your warrior, i dont stick to my thief, i stick to what i think is efficient wich means unless your warrior is best at what your doing with it, you will complain about whatever i do. i just try to explain to you your options and why it probably wont get nerfed and sometimes i try to suggest more realitic changes to adress a specific issue people have. just look at this thread a ton of people want anti stealth trap to be unremoveable basically by deadeye elite, first i want to know what for. so its mostly about hiding in keeps. being able to remove such a trap gives the deadeye a feeling of safety wich increases the change that he leaves stealth. if i know i cant remove the effect of the trap, how are you going to make me trigger it ? it wont solve your issue and a 'little group' as you said above still wont be able to get the deadeye out of the keep better than they are now. right now if i have a presistent group that just wont leave, i start killing them - i wouldnt do that with such a change. attacking them is a huge chance for them to kill me. i never trigger a trap without fighting. but if i cant remove the trap, i wont fight aside from the lord when nobody is there.

what i wonder tho is how many deadeyes are actually out there solo flipping keeps and towers? i mean i know i am. but its soo rare that an opposing deadeye is in one of our towers or a keep and actually able to flip it let alone hide himself. i think i cant remember seeing 1 deadeye do that so far. i had one attack me inside my keep when i did know he was there, he opened with a 5k hit and dropped instantly to me returning the same skill. - highly doubt he would have been able to kill that lord.

tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againeven if its just a small number of thiefs doing it, is no excuse fir making it possible, im not even saying that you shouldnt ve able to flip it solo, but you shouldnt be able to keep several ppl for minutes inside their own keep just because of your broken thief mechanic, this has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)

just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanic

To be fair, nobody's keeping you in that keep trying to find him. Just walk away and leave him there if you can't catch him. If he tries to flip the Lord solo send a couple stealthy types to gank him, otherwise he'll get bored and move on. Simples.

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RedShark.9548

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againthis has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)it has alot to do with your warrior. you assume that you can build your warrior to be efficient in this mode in solo roaming. because what people define as 'meta' for roaming is far away from a meta for roaming if the mode was played competitive. because to play that mode really competitive it would need to provide equal teams, for example full maps for the entire matchup - thats impossible for a 7 days long match unless with extreme queues. but if you had full maps all the time and tried to do your best to win that match, the focus would be much more on the structures and you wouldnt play solo on your warrior.just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanici am not defending it. i couldnt care less about what is happening with it.i just tell you your options to deal with it and why it likely wont be changed aswell as why it wont fix your issue.but you refuse to read because you know i am part of your issue. read it and come up with a suggestion that is both likely and actually fixing your issue.just your QQ wont get you anywhere, so 'just stop'.

just because you think it will never get nerfed is no reason at all to talk about it and strife for a better balanced game, and again it has nothing to do with warrior, most other classes wont be able to deal with your permastealth aswell

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

i feared you wouldnt understand.it is a different scenario in the same mode where you are confronted with the same options, to show you that those options you have to pick from are not exclusive to your deadeye in a keep issue so you maybe see it in a similar way.i understand that you want to stick to your warrior because reasons, thats fine. i also gathered from your previous posts that you enjoy doing stuff with your warrior that he is not build for like solo roaming, wich is also fine as it is a game and as long as you have fun go for it. but this also means you will end up in a situation were your setup is suboptimal. like your alone with an opposing thief in your keep or your with pugs all on solo builds against a coordinated group with a teamcomp. in such a situation you have several options : you can just accept it as it is, change nothing and lose or you can change your setup: your build , the numbers you run with etc. or you can (because this is a teammode) ask someone of your server with the better setup to deal with it.

i certainly dont fear my permastealth being nerfed only because some people refuse to play efficiently. i dont really think that anet will take serious actions against it considering the deadeye rework wich put a greater emphasize on stealth and if they still do nerf it, then i will just play something else you will probably complain about. because you dont play efficiently, you stick to your warrior, i dont stick to my thief, i stick to what i think is efficient wich means unless your warrior is best at what your doing with it, you will complain about whatever i do. i just try to explain to you your options and why it probably wont get nerfed and sometimes i try to suggest more realitic changes to adress a specific issue people have. just look at this thread a ton of people want anti stealth trap to be unremoveable basically by deadeye elite, first i want to know what for. so its mostly about hiding in keeps. being able to remove such a trap gives the deadeye a feeling of safety wich increases the change that he leaves stealth. if i know i cant remove the effect of the trap, how are you going to make me trigger it ? it wont solve your issue and a 'little group' as you said above still wont be able to get the deadeye out of the keep better than they are now. right now if i have a presistent group that just wont leave, i start killing them - i wouldnt do that with such a change. attacking them is a huge chance for them to kill me. i never trigger a trap without fighting. but if i cant remove the trap, i wont fight aside from the lord when nobody is there.

what i wonder tho is how many deadeyes are actually out there solo flipping keeps and towers? i mean i know i am. but its soo rare that an opposing deadeye is in one of our towers or a keep and actually able to flip it let alone hide himself. i think i cant remember seeing 1 deadeye do that so far. i had one attack me inside my keep when i did know he was there, he opened with a 5k hit and dropped instantly to me returning the same skill. - highly doubt he would have been able to kill that lord.

tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againeven if its just a small number of thiefs doing it, is no excuse fir making it possible, im not even saying that you shouldnt ve able to flip it solo, but you shouldnt be able to keep several ppl for minutes inside their own keep just because of your broken thief mechanic, this has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)

just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanic

To be fair, nobody's keeping you in that keep trying to find him. Just walk away and leave him there if you can't catch him. If he tries to flip the Lord solo send a couple stealthy types to gank him, otherwise he'll get bored and move on. Simples.

its still no reason to allow a single class to have such an advantage in my own keepinside your own keep a single player shouldnt be a threat. periodatleast not one that you have to lookout for an eternitysure if you never notice hes there, go ahead, but when you know hes there then he should have no options but to leave or die

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againthis has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)it has alot to do with your warrior. you assume that you can build your warrior to be efficient in this mode in solo roaming. because what people define as 'meta' for roaming is far away from a meta for roaming if the mode was played competitive. because to play that mode really competitive it would need to provide equal teams, for example full maps for the entire matchup - thats impossible for a 7 days long match unless with extreme queues. but if you had full maps all the time and tried to do your best to win that match, the focus would be much more on the structures and you wouldnt play solo on your warrior.just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanici am not defending it. i couldnt care less about what is happening with it.i just tell you your options to deal with it and why it likely wont be changed aswell as why it wont fix your issue.but you refuse to read because you know i am part of your issue. read it and come up with a suggestion that is both likely and actually fixing your issue.just your QQ wont get you anywhere, so 'just stop'.

just because you think it will never get nerfed is no reason at all to talk about it and strife for a better balanced game, and again it has nothing to do with warrior, most other classes wont be able to deal with your permastealth aswell

its all fine. i accept the current game design and play around it, you dont. if anet decides to cater to your interests i will still play whatever the game is designed around and not an illusion of what i think the game is. and as i have now looked up who you are, knowing that your on my server, i know how much sense it does make to talk with you about certain parts of the game. and you are free to tell me if you notice an opposing deadeye in one of our keeps. tho i think our server is EU nr1. in this, therefor the chance you will see an opposing one are rather little.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

i feared you wouldnt understand.it is a different scenario in the same mode where you are confronted with the same options, to show you that those options you have to pick from are not exclusive to your deadeye in a keep issue so you maybe see it in a similar way.i understand that you want to stick to your warrior because reasons, thats fine. i also gathered from your previous posts that you enjoy doing stuff with your warrior that he is not build for like solo roaming, wich is also fine as it is a game and as long as you have fun go for it. but this also means you will end up in a situation were your setup is suboptimal. like your alone with an opposing thief in your keep or your with pugs all on solo builds against a coordinated group with a teamcomp. in such a situation you have several options : you can just accept it as it is, change nothing and lose or you can change your setup: your build , the numbers you run with etc. or you can (because this is a teammode) ask someone of your server with the better setup to deal with it.

i certainly dont fear my permastealth being nerfed only because some people refuse to play efficiently. i dont really think that anet will take serious actions against it considering the deadeye rework wich put a greater emphasize on stealth and if they still do nerf it, then i will just play something else you will probably complain about. because you dont play efficiently, you stick to your warrior, i dont stick to my thief, i stick to what i think is efficient wich means unless your warrior is best at what your doing with it, you will complain about whatever i do. i just try to explain to you your options and why it probably wont get nerfed and sometimes i try to suggest more realitic changes to adress a specific issue people have. just look at this thread a ton of people want anti stealth trap to be unremoveable basically by deadeye elite, first i want to know what for. so its mostly about hiding in keeps. being able to remove such a trap gives the deadeye a feeling of safety wich increases the change that he leaves stealth. if i know i cant remove the effect of the trap, how are you going to make me trigger it ? it wont solve your issue and a 'little group' as you said above still wont be able to get the deadeye out of the keep better than they are now. right now if i have a presistent group that just wont leave, i start killing them - i wouldnt do that with such a change. attacking them is a huge chance for them to kill me. i never trigger a trap without fighting. but if i cant remove the trap, i wont fight aside from the lord when nobody is there.

what i wonder tho is how many deadeyes are actually out there solo flipping keeps and towers? i mean i know i am. but its soo rare that an opposing deadeye is in one of our towers or a keep and actually able to flip it let alone hide himself. i think i cant remember seeing 1 deadeye do that so far. i had one attack me inside my keep when i did know he was there, he opened with a 5k hit and dropped instantly to me returning the same skill. - highly doubt he would have been able to kill that lord.

tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againeven if its just a small number of thiefs doing it, is no excuse fir making it possible, im not even saying that you shouldnt ve able to flip it solo, but you shouldnt be able to keep several ppl for minutes inside their own keep just because of your broken thief mechanic, this has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)

just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanic

To be fair, nobody's keeping you in that keep trying to find him. Just walk away and leave him there if you can't catch him. If he tries to flip the Lord solo send a couple stealthy types to gank him, otherwise he'll get bored and move on. Simples.

its still no reason to allow a single class to have such an advantage in my own keepinside your own keep a single player shouldnt be a threat. periodatleast not one that you have to lookout for an eternitysure if you never notice hes there, go ahead, but when you know hes there then he should have no options but to leave or die

why is stay not an option? that i cant flip it while your there i understand. so if you dont leave i cant do anything, die or leave. unless ofc you stop using your keeps advantages like the lord to help you, then i can kill you. in wich case you mostly can return before i can flip it and again cause a stalemate. there is no way i can flip a keep with a competent player of any class in there trying to keep me from it. unless they try to kill me with the wrong build over trying to keep their keep, then they will die.

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Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againthis has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)it has alot to do with your warrior. you assume that you can build your warrior to be efficient in this mode in solo roaming. because what people define as 'meta' for roaming is far away from a meta for roaming if the mode was played competitive. because to play that mode really competitive it would need to provide equal teams, for example full maps for the entire matchup - thats impossible for a 7 days long match unless with extreme queues. but if you had full maps all the time and tried to do your best to win that match, the focus would be much more on the structures and you wouldnt play solo on your warrior.just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanici am not defending it. i couldnt care less about what is happening with it.i just tell you your options to deal with it and why it likely wont be changed aswell as why it wont fix your issue.but you refuse to read because you know i am part of your issue. read it and come up with a suggestion that is both likely and actually fixing your issue.just your QQ wont get you anywhere, so 'just stop'.

just because you think it will never get nerfed is no reason at all to talk about it and strife for a better balanced game, and again it has nothing to do with warrior, most other classes wont be able to deal with your permastealth aswell

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

i feared you wouldnt understand.it is a different scenario in the same mode where you are confronted with the same options, to show you that those options you have to pick from are not exclusive to your deadeye in a keep issue so you maybe see it in a similar way.i understand that you want to stick to your warrior because reasons, thats fine. i also gathered from your previous posts that you enjoy doing stuff with your warrior that he is not build for like solo roaming, wich is also fine as it is a game and as long as you have fun go for it. but this also means you will end up in a situation were your setup is suboptimal. like your alone with an opposing thief in your keep or your with pugs all on solo builds against a coordinated group with a teamcomp. in such a situation you have several options : you can just accept it as it is, change nothing and lose or you can change your setup: your build , the numbers you run with etc. or you can (because this is a teammode) ask someone of your server with the better setup to deal with it.

i certainly dont fear my permastealth being nerfed only because some people refuse to play efficiently. i dont really think that anet will take serious actions against it considering the deadeye rework wich put a greater emphasize on stealth and if they still do nerf it, then i will just play something else you will probably complain about. because you dont play efficiently, you stick to your warrior, i dont stick to my thief, i stick to what i think is efficient wich means unless your warrior is best at what your doing with it, you will complain about whatever i do. i just try to explain to you your options and why it probably wont get nerfed and sometimes i try to suggest more realitic changes to adress a specific issue people have. just look at this thread a ton of people want anti stealth trap to be unremoveable basically by deadeye elite, first i want to know what for. so its mostly about hiding in keeps. being able to remove such a trap gives the deadeye a feeling of safety wich increases the change that he leaves stealth. if i know i cant remove the effect of the trap, how are you going to make me trigger it ? it wont solve your issue and a 'little group' as you said above still wont be able to get the deadeye out of the keep better than they are now. right now if i have a presistent group that just wont leave, i start killing them - i wouldnt do that with such a change. attacking them is a huge chance for them to kill me. i never trigger a trap without fighting. but if i cant remove the trap, i wont fight aside from the lord when nobody is there.

what i wonder tho is how many deadeyes are actually out there solo flipping keeps and towers? i mean i know i am. but its soo rare that an opposing deadeye is in one of our towers or a keep and actually able to flip it let alone hide himself. i think i cant remember seeing 1 deadeye do that so far. i had one attack me inside my keep when i did know he was there, he opened with a 5k hit and dropped instantly to me returning the same skill. - highly doubt he would have been able to kill that lord.

tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againeven if its just a small number of thiefs doing it, is no excuse fir making it possible, im not even saying that you shouldnt ve able to flip it solo, but you shouldnt be able to keep several ppl for minutes inside their own keep just because of your broken thief mechanic, this has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)

just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanic

To be fair, nobody's keeping you in that keep trying to find him. Just walk away and leave him there if you can't catch him. If he tries to flip the Lord solo send a couple stealthy types to gank him, otherwise he'll get bored and move on. Simples.

its still no reason to allow a single class to have such an advantage in my own keepinside your own keep a single player shouldnt be a threat. periodatleast not one that you have to lookout for an eternitysure if you never notice hes there, go ahead, but when you know hes there then he should have no options but to leave or die

So place your stealth traps around the Lord and leave. No players to gank, can't engage the Lord safely without burning shadow meld which means they can't defend against being ganked easily. There's ways to deal with it, if you're prepared to put your ego aside for a second (not all builds are suited to it) and think rationally about it.

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DemonSeed.3528

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Put a golem in Lord's and camp there if you plan to waste time with them, they can't exactly kill you inside one without taking time and exposing themselves. I baited one out this way because they were probably dying inside of boredom and I think they wanted me to kill them in the end cos they couldn't do anything. If you intend to waste your time, you should at least waste theirs until they find it unbearable.

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@DemonSeed.3528 said:Put a golem in Lord's and camp there if you plan to waste time with them, they can't exactly kill you inside one without taking time and exposing themselves. I baited one out this way because they were probably dying inside of boredom and I think they wanted me to kill them in the end cos they couldn't do anything. If you intend to waste your time, you should at least waste theirs until they find it unbearable.

yup that works pretty well, especially if your solo because then the deadeye is not efficient doing nothing, hes kind of forced to act or he is technically losing.

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RedShark.9548

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againthis has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)it has alot to do with your warrior. you assume that you can build your warrior to be efficient in this mode in solo roaming. because what people define as 'meta' for roaming is far away from a meta for roaming if the mode was played competitive. because to play that mode really competitive it would need to provide equal teams, for example full maps for the entire matchup - thats impossible for a 7 days long match unless with extreme queues. but if you had full maps all the time and tried to do your best to win that match, the focus would be much more on the structures and you wouldnt play solo on your warrior.just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanici am not defending it. i couldnt care less about what is happening with it.i just tell you your options to deal with it and why it likely wont be changed aswell as why it wont fix your issue.but you refuse to read because you know i am part of your issue. read it and come up with a suggestion that is both likely and actually fixing your issue.just your QQ wont get you anywhere, so 'just stop'.

just because you think it will never get nerfed is no reason at all to talk about it and strife for a better balanced game, and again it has nothing to do with warrior, most other classes wont be able to deal with your permastealth aswell

its all fine. i accept the current game design and play around it, you dont. if anet decides to cater to your interests i will still play whatever the game is designed around and not an illusion of what i think the game is. and as i have now looked up who you are, knowing that your on my server, i know how much sense it does make to talk with you about certain parts of the game. and you are free to tell me if you notice an opposing deadeye in one of our keeps. tho i think our server is EU nr1. in this, therefor the chance you will see an opposing one are rather little.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

i feared you wouldnt understand.it is a different scenario in the same mode where you are confronted with the same options, to show you that those options you have to pick from are not exclusive to your deadeye in a keep issue so you maybe see it in a similar way.i understand that you want to stick to your warrior because reasons, thats fine. i also gathered from your previous posts that you enjoy doing stuff with your warrior that he is not build for like solo roaming, wich is also fine as it is a game and as long as you have fun go for it. but this also means you will end up in a situation were your setup is suboptimal. like your alone with an opposing thief in your keep or your with pugs all on solo builds against a coordinated group with a teamcomp. in such a situation you have several options : you can just accept it as it is, change nothing and lose or you can change your setup: your build , the numbers you run with etc. or you can (because this is a teammode) ask someone of your server with the better setup to deal with it.

i certainly dont fear my permastealth being nerfed only because some people refuse to play efficiently. i dont really think that anet will take serious actions against it considering the deadeye rework wich put a greater emphasize on stealth and if they still do nerf it, then i will just play something else you will probably complain about. because you dont play efficiently, you stick to your warrior, i dont stick to my thief, i stick to what i think is efficient wich means unless your warrior is best at what your doing with it, you will complain about whatever i do. i just try to explain to you your options and why it probably wont get nerfed and sometimes i try to suggest more realitic changes to adress a specific issue people have. just look at this thread a ton of people want anti stealth trap to be unremoveable basically by deadeye elite, first i want to know what for. so its mostly about hiding in keeps. being able to remove such a trap gives the deadeye a feeling of safety wich increases the change that he leaves stealth. if i know i cant remove the effect of the trap, how are you going to make me trigger it ? it wont solve your issue and a 'little group' as you said above still wont be able to get the deadeye out of the keep better than they are now. right now if i have a presistent group that just wont leave, i start killing them - i wouldnt do that with such a change. attacking them is a huge chance for them to kill me. i never trigger a trap without fighting. but if i cant remove the trap, i wont fight aside from the lord when nobody is there.

what i wonder tho is how many deadeyes are actually out there solo flipping keeps and towers? i mean i know i am. but its soo rare that an opposing deadeye is in one of our towers or a keep and actually able to flip it let alone hide himself. i think i cant remember seeing 1 deadeye do that so far. i had one attack me inside my keep when i did know he was there, he opened with a 5k hit and dropped instantly to me returning the same skill. - highly doubt he would have been able to kill that lord.

tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againeven if its just a small number of thiefs doing it, is no excuse fir making it possible, im not even saying that you shouldnt ve able to flip it solo, but you shouldnt be able to keep several ppl for minutes inside their own keep just because of your broken thief mechanic, this has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)

just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanic

To be fair, nobody's keeping you in that keep trying to find him. Just walk away and leave him there if you can't catch him. If he tries to flip the Lord solo send a couple stealthy types to gank him, otherwise he'll get bored and move on. Simples.

its still no reason to allow a single class to have such an advantage in my own keepinside your own keep a single player shouldnt be a threat. periodatleast not one that you have to lookout for an eternitysure if you never notice hes there, go ahead, but when you know hes there then he should have no options but to leave or die

why is stay not an option? that i cant flip it while your there i understand. so if you dont leave i cant do anything, die or leave. unless ofc you stop using your keeps advantages like the lord to help you, then i can kill you. in wich case you mostly can return before i can flip it and again cause a stalemate. there is no way i can flip a keep with a competent player of any class in there trying to keep me from it. unless they try to kill me with the wrong build over trying to keep their keep, then they will die.

its not an option because its a frickin keep (something thats there to be somewhat of a safezone, if you dont get that we can keep talking forever) there shouldnt be the problem of me having to camp inside that thing and get bored af while thiefs are laughing their asses of because of that and wait until i leave to try to flip it

im not sure whats so hard to understand about that. at this point we are just walking in circles because you dont understand what my view of a keep is , from the beginning of this seemingly never ending discussion

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@RedShark.9548 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againthis has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)it has alot to do with your warrior. you assume that you can build your warrior to be efficient in this mode in solo roaming. because what people define as 'meta' for roaming is far away from a meta for roaming if the mode was played competitive. because to play that mode really competitive it would need to provide equal teams, for example full maps for the entire matchup - thats impossible for a 7 days long match unless with extreme queues. but if you had full maps all the time and tried to do your best to win that match, the focus would be much more on the structures and you wouldnt play solo on your warrior.just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanici am not defending it. i couldnt care less about what is happening with it.i just tell you your options to deal with it and why it likely wont be changed aswell as why it wont fix your issue.but you refuse to read because you know i am part of your issue. read it and come up with a suggestion that is both likely and actually fixing your issue.just your QQ wont get you anywhere, so 'just stop'.

just because you think it will never get nerfed is no reason at all to talk about it and strife for a better balanced game, and again it has nothing to do with warrior, most other classes wont be able to deal with your permastealth aswell

its all fine. i accept the current game design and play around it, you dont. if anet decides to cater to your interests i will still play whatever the game is designed around and not an illusion of what i think the game is. and as i have now looked up who you are, knowing that your on my server, i know how much sense it does make to talk with you about certain parts of the game. and you are free to tell me if you notice an opposing deadeye in one of our keeps. tho i think our server is EU nr1. in this, therefor the chance you will see an opposing one are rather little.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

i feared you wouldnt understand.it is a different scenario in the same mode where you are confronted with the same options, to show you that those options you have to pick from are not exclusive to your deadeye in a keep issue so you maybe see it in a similar way.i understand that you want to stick to your warrior because reasons, thats fine. i also gathered from your previous posts that you enjoy doing stuff with your warrior that he is not build for like solo roaming, wich is also fine as it is a game and as long as you have fun go for it. but this also means you will end up in a situation were your setup is suboptimal. like your alone with an opposing thief in your keep or your with pugs all on solo builds against a coordinated group with a teamcomp. in such a situation you have several options : you can just accept it as it is, change nothing and lose or you can change your setup: your build , the numbers you run with etc. or you can (because this is a teammode) ask someone of your server with the better setup to deal with it.

i certainly dont fear my permastealth being nerfed only because some people refuse to play efficiently. i dont really think that anet will take serious actions against it considering the deadeye rework wich put a greater emphasize on stealth and if they still do nerf it, then i will just play something else you will probably complain about. because you dont play efficiently, you stick to your warrior, i dont stick to my thief, i stick to what i think is efficient wich means unless your warrior is best at what your doing with it, you will complain about whatever i do. i just try to explain to you your options and why it probably wont get nerfed and sometimes i try to suggest more realitic changes to adress a specific issue people have. just look at this thread a ton of people want anti stealth trap to be unremoveable basically by deadeye elite, first i want to know what for. so its mostly about hiding in keeps. being able to remove such a trap gives the deadeye a feeling of safety wich increases the change that he leaves stealth. if i know i cant remove the effect of the trap, how are you going to make me trigger it ? it wont solve your issue and a 'little group' as you said above still wont be able to get the deadeye out of the keep better than they are now. right now if i have a presistent group that just wont leave, i start killing them - i wouldnt do that with such a change. attacking them is a huge chance for them to kill me. i never trigger a trap without fighting. but if i cant remove the trap, i wont fight aside from the lord when nobody is there.

what i wonder tho is how many deadeyes are actually out there solo flipping keeps and towers? i mean i know i am. but its soo rare that an opposing deadeye is in one of our towers or a keep and actually able to flip it let alone hide himself. i think i cant remember seeing 1 deadeye do that so far. i had one attack me inside my keep when i did know he was there, he opened with a 5k hit and dropped instantly to me returning the same skill. - highly doubt he would have been able to kill that lord.

tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againeven if its just a small number of thiefs doing it, is no excuse fir making it possible, im not even saying that you shouldnt ve able to flip it solo, but you shouldnt be able to keep several ppl for minutes inside their own keep just because of your broken thief mechanic, this has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)

just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanic

To be fair, nobody's keeping you in that keep trying to find him. Just walk away and leave him there if you can't catch him. If he tries to flip the Lord solo send a couple stealthy types to gank him, otherwise he'll get bored and move on. Simples.

its still no reason to allow a single class to have such an advantage in my own keepinside your own keep a single player shouldnt be a threat. periodatleast not one that you have to lookout for an eternitysure if you never notice hes there, go ahead, but when you know hes there then he should have no options but to leave or die

why is stay not an option? that i cant flip it while your there i understand. so if you dont leave i cant do anything, die or leave. unless ofc you stop using your keeps advantages like the lord to help you, then i can kill you. in wich case you mostly can return before i can flip it and again cause a stalemate. there is no way i can flip a keep with a competent player of any class in there trying to keep me from it. unless they try to kill me with the wrong build over trying to keep their keep, then they will die.

its not an option because its a frickin keep (something thats there to be somewhat of a safezone, if you dont get that we can keep talking forever) there shouldnt be the problem of me having to camp inside that thing and get bored af while thiefs are laughing their kitten of because of that and wait until i leave to try to flip it

im not sure whats so hard to understand about that. at this point we are just walking in circles because you dont understand what my view of a keep is , from the beginning of this seemingly never ending discussion

@RedShark.9548 said:tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againthis has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)it has alot to do with your warrior. you assume that you can build your warrior to be efficient in this mode in solo roaming. because what people define as 'meta' for roaming is far away from a meta for roaming if the mode was played competitive. because to play that mode really competitive it would need to provide equal teams, for example full maps for the entire matchup - thats impossible for a 7 days long match unless with extreme queues. but if you had full maps all the time and tried to do your best to win that match, the focus would be much more on the structures and you wouldnt play solo on your warrior.just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanici am not defending it. i couldnt care less about what is happening with it.i just tell you your options to deal with it and why it likely wont be changed aswell as why it wont fix your issue.but you refuse to read because you know i am part of your issue. read it and come up with a suggestion that is both likely and actually fixing your issue.just your QQ wont get you anywhere, so 'just stop'.

just because you think it will never get nerfed is no reason at all to talk about it and strife for a better balanced game, and again it has nothing to do with warrior, most other classes wont be able to deal with your permastealth aswell

its all fine. i accept the current game design and play around it, you dont. if anet decides to cater to your interests i will still play whatever the game is designed around and not an illusion of what i think the game is. and as i have now looked up who you are, knowing that your on my server, i know how much sense it does make to talk with you about certain parts of the game. and you are free to tell me if you notice an opposing deadeye in one of our keeps. tho i think our server is EU nr1. in this, therefor the chance you will see an opposing one are rather little.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

those builds didnt run sa even before lots of those reveals were implemented in the game, because sa is not needed since thief already has more than enough tools to get out of sticky situations, reveals just rly entered with pof, even in hot they were only a few and sa wasnt played aswell

saying that anti stealth traps are op because they disable a complete traitline is just kitten rlythey are only somewhat reliable in closed spaces, like keeps for example and that rightly so since a single thief shouldnt be able to troll like 5 player in their own base with just permastealthing all day long and jumping around with his mobility. in open field they are basically useless since the thief either doesnt even set a foot into it or just jumps away for the duration of thirty seconds and then coming back because those traps are limited due to supply cost. thief player defending something like that stealthplay are just saltbags complaing that there is a form of counterplay to push them out of the enemies keep. period

ok seems there is some miss understanding here. i dont complain about the current form, because i can deal with it. i complain about people demanding that i shouldnt be able to remove it anymore. sure it is poorly implemented but for both sides. if i cant remove it, it is too strong of a counter and if i do remove it, it is useless. there is no place when dealing with this traps that offers a fun fight for anyone.oh and there is counterplay to push enemy thieves out of your keep, i never had an issue ganking a thief at lord. strange tho today the first time an other deadeye tried to do it to me. he tried for all the fight with fire keep lord and died right after.but trying to force them out of stealth is not needed and highly inefficient. cause as long as they remain in stealth they cant do anything. give them a reason to leave stealth and gank them saves a lot of time and nerves. you would need someone tho that can gank and many of those 'skilled' roamers would never do that. so its likely only bad players will try the correct strategy and they will fail if the deadeye at lord is not as bad.

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

im saying that traps arent as big of an issue as you try to make them out. and yes defense for warrior is way more mandatory than thiefs sa traitline. give me one pvp/wvw based warrior meta build without defense i will give you 2 or more thief metabuilds that dont use sa lol.

you dont understand. its not about not having other options. when i step into a trap my build wont suddenly change to something without SA. so yes removing defense line on a trap would have the same effect on a warrior running that line. the warrior is more likely running that line , than a thief running SA indeed. but still would be the same effect for the one stepping into it and having a traitline disabled.

your suggestion is : dont play with what i dont like, then you dont need to complain about the counter. that is pretty stupid.

its not about how easy to gank they are when not in stealth or that they cant do stuff while in stealth. its the fact that as long as there is a thief in my keep he will remain a threat. potentially pulling several ppl into the keep to secure it as a single guy who just stays in stealth, he doesnt even have to be actively do something serious as long as he pulls some numbers to waste their time in their own keep while his server is attacking somewhere else. no one else can do this, even mesmer dont have the stealth uptime to rly pull that off. you send a few ppl after him and in a minute he will be dead when they see him.no one else is able to do that, and if your precious little sa traitline is working so heavily with stealth its seriously not a big of a deal imo, because you activaly chose to rely that heavily on an already super strong mechanic that is good even without sa.

id happily trade defense on warrior if there was a traitline equal to that one, but there dont rly is much of a choice. you as thief have the choice. and i hope you agree atleast that the attunement comparison was total bs

yes they can pull a ton of people and bind them, because people are stupid. they want to force a fight instead of bait and gank, clear l2p issue. yes against other classes you can just easily stack numbers and that will solve it all and its an issue because people have to learn another way of dealing with an opponent?

again yes i choose SA, you choose defense, you choose to rely on it. reveal is a counter that can nullify more than 1 traitline, again 7/9 traits and could be 8/9 thats 2 traitlines and 1 more trait.SA, all my DE traits as they are malice or directly stealth based and hidden killer. i only need from SA the condi cleanse in a fight what i need much more is stealth attacks and considering my gear choice the hidden killer.but as said i am oke with the current form as i can remove reveal, yet you say its perfectly fine if i wasnt able to do anything about the trap? if for 30s 7 of 9 traitchoices were disabled and ontop my stealth attacks wich is my burst. disabeling only defense line is pretty low effect compared to that. yet you say its fine because i choose to ? actually only disabeling defense wouldnt be the same. ontop also your choice of elite spec + burst skills. then we are nearly at what the trap does to an SA deadeye.

attunements are as core of a mechanic as stealth attacks and stealth in general to thief, sure many play mostly without stealth because stealth is WEAKER than mobility/evades in many situations. just like you will rarely see an elementalist on water when he tries to deal damage in PvE, he has the option its core to them, so its no issue if they cant use water in PvE, unless ofc there are eles that like to play healer in PvE. just like there are thieves who like to use their stealth interaction in WvW.

disabling attunements for 30seconds hits ele way harder than disabling stealth lol. you still can use your weapon abilities and weapon swap etc. the ele cant even do that.and no, i didnt choose to rely on defense, i HAVE to. if you have ever played warrior you will know that its wayyy too mich of a big advantage to use defense and that in a warrior vs warrior the defense warrior will have a big leadthere is a clear difference between warrior and thief in building choices.

doesnt matter if one has an other choice within the same profession. you still want a trap to disable a choice. could aswell have a trap that turn warriors into white rabbits. sure you would complain, but you have the CHOICE not to play warrior. thats how much sense your argumentation makes. do i have to bring even more extreme examples?if SA + stealth attacks etc. is not such an important part of the thief, why do you want to disable it? i mean than you clearly have just an issue with invisibility, not with SA , not with stealth attacks or malic einteracting with them.you ppl with your "l2p issue" are such a joke, its not even close to being that.if i am alone as a warrior in my keep and know that there is a thief inside, i have 4 choices
  1. i stay at the lord (and have 0 fun being afk)
  2. i act like i walk away and come back to check later and if hes bad he wont see me coming (good ones just stealth and run away to wait again)
  3. i just dont care and leave the keep to have some actual fun outside MY OWN keep
  4. i run around the keep spammihg sight beyond sight to make him visible for him to melt back into stealth

not to mention that there is always the danger to get killed by a thief in a 1v1 scenario, depending on both players skill

permastealth is just a mechanic that should NEVER be in the gameif you as a warrior are alone in WvW, you are already doing something wrong when you look at WvW the full mode from a competitive point of view so l2p would already apply here. if the thief is not stupid your dead and the keep is gone anyway , nothing to do with permastealth.but yeah WvW players are very special snowflakes that think any build should be competitive in any situation in WvW while ignoring the mode as such - that just cant happen.

what you described right there is LITERALLY what it means to be overpowered, if im doing something wrong simply by not playing thief then its not a l2p issue, but a balance issue with thief, which you are still trying to defend, because ofc you are abusing this unbalanced state of thief

im not saying that any nonsense build should be possible in every mode, but im also saying that its not ok to have classes that can do absurd stuff (like thief perma stealth) that others cant to a point where ppl say:"well if you are running solo warrior, you are already doing something wrong, just l2p"that should be a very clear sign to anet that they should change something

i am not saying if your running warrior you are doing something wrong. i am saying if you run solo on a warrior that is wrong. because you cant avoid groups and warrior is trash tier in open field 1 vs 1 without any envoirement to use. if i was going to play a support role in a zerg, i am also not going to choose my thief, i will use my FB.i merely want you to understand that in a competitive team mode with different professions and builds, it will allways be balanced around roles. you wont be able to fill every role with every profession and build. and for each role in a specific situation there is allways just 1 best. for solo roaming and picking your fights, that is thief. you can solo roam on your warrior all fine, but dont expect than to beat someone that has made a more optimal choice for that role.

sure i have no problem with the fact that ill lose open field to thiefs, what i have problem with is that keeps for example are in no way open field, and no class should be able to do what thiefs can do inside of a keep, thats my opinion, if you think such gameplay is good then idk, i think its kitten and should definately NOT exist

this is were thief is op imo, idc what you can do openfield, thiefs are annoying there, sure, but not as threatening as one inside your own keep where you need a little group to get a single thief out or are forced to play thief just to get him out

a mesmer or ranger(depending on structure) is often better at ganking the deadeye than another thief.when i have an opposing roaming guild on the map with supportes an such it is nearly impossibile with pug solo roamers to kill them unless you are alot better than them, just because they got supporters and supportable builds, the pugs could switch aswell to different builds and professions just to beat them, get farmed, get waaay too many numbers or ask a roaming guild of their own to handle them. that basically the same options with a thief in your keep.

thats a complete different scenario you are describing right now... what??just leave it be, i understand that you dont want your permastealth to be nerfed, if that was my playstyle id probably want to keep it aswell

i feared you wouldnt understand.it is a different scenario in the same mode where you are confronted with the same options, to show you that those options you have to pick from are not exclusive to your deadeye in a keep issue so you maybe see it in a similar way.i understand that you want to stick to your warrior because reasons, thats fine. i also gathered from your previous posts that you enjoy doing stuff with your warrior that he is not build for like solo roaming, wich is also fine as it is a game and as long as you have fun go for it. but this also means you will end up in a situation were your setup is suboptimal. like your alone with an opposing thief in your keep or your with pugs all on solo builds against a coordinated group with a teamcomp. in such a situation you have several options : you can just accept it as it is, change nothing and lose or you can change your setup: your build , the numbers you run with etc. or you can (because this is a teammode) ask someone of your server with the better setup to deal with it.

i certainly dont fear my permastealth being nerfed only because some people refuse to play efficiently. i dont really think that anet will take serious actions against it considering the deadeye rework wich put a greater emphasize on stealth and if they still do nerf it, then i will just play something else you will probably complain about. because you dont play efficiently, you stick to your warrior, i dont stick to my thief, i stick to what i think is efficient wich means unless your warrior is best at what your doing with it, you will complain about whatever i do. i just try to explain to you your options and why it probably wont get nerfed and sometimes i try to suggest more realitic changes to adress a specific issue people have. just look at this thread a ton of people want anti stealth trap to be unremoveable basically by deadeye elite, first i want to know what for. so its mostly about hiding in keeps. being able to remove such a trap gives the deadeye a feeling of safety wich increases the change that he leaves stealth. if i know i cant remove the effect of the trap, how are you going to make me trigger it ? it wont solve your issue and a 'little group' as you said above still wont be able to get the deadeye out of the keep better than they are now. right now if i have a presistent group that just wont leave, i start killing them - i wouldnt do that with such a change. attacking them is a huge chance for them to kill me. i never trigger a trap without fighting. but if i cant remove the trap, i wont fight aside from the lord when nobody is there.

what i wonder tho is how many deadeyes are actually out there solo flipping keeps and towers? i mean i know i am. but its soo rare that an opposing deadeye is in one of our towers or a keep and actually able to flip it let alone hide himself. i think i cant remember seeing 1 deadeye do that so far. i had one attack me inside my keep when i did know he was there, he opened with a 5k hit and dropped instantly to me returning the same skill. - highly doubt he would have been able to kill that lord.

tbhtldr.but mainly because you are trying to talk around it againeven if its just a small number of thiefs doing it, is no excuse fir making it possible, im not even saying that you shouldnt ve able to flip it solo, but you shouldnt be able to keep several ppl for minutes inside their own keep just because of your broken thief mechanic, this has nothing to do with my warrior build (where i btw use the completely normal and meta warrior roaming build and not a zerg build, not sure why you start assuming stuff now)

just stop defending such things, you already admitted that no other class can pull this off, there is not a single excuse that would justify this state of a mechanic

To be fair, nobody's keeping you in that keep trying to find him. Just walk away and leave him there if you can't catch him. If he tries to flip the Lord solo send a couple stealthy types to gank him, otherwise he'll get bored and move on. Simples.

its still no reason to allow a single class to have such an advantage in my own keepinside your own keep a single player shouldnt be a threat. periodatleast not one that you have to lookout for an eternitysure if you never notice hes there, go ahead, but when you know hes there then he should have no options but to leave or die

why is stay not an option? that i cant flip it while your there i understand. so if you dont leave i cant do anything, die or leave. unless ofc you stop using your keeps advantages like the lord to help you, then i can kill you. in wich case you mostly can return before i can flip it and again cause a stalemate. there is no way i can flip a keep with a competent player of any class in there trying to keep me from it. unless they try to kill me with the wrong build over trying to keep their keep, then they will die.

its not an option because its a frickin keep (something thats there to be somewhat of a safezone, if you dont get that we can keep talking forever) there shouldnt be the problem of me having to camp inside that thing and get bored af while thiefs are laughing their kitten of because of that and wait until i leave to try to flip it

im not sure whats so hard to understand about that. at this point we are just walking in circles because you dont understand what my view of a keep is , from the beginning of this seemingly never ending discussion

no worries i perfectly understand your position. i disagree with it. keeps are not a safe zone, its a zone that is contributing in your favor when it is yours. a more simplistic version of this can be found in spvp. lets say your on a side node and there comes a deadeye, he stealthes and waits. now you can either stand there getting bored with the deadeye and win the match because the point it contributing in your favor, go away and leave the point to the deadeye or call for help to stand there waiting with more people so the deadeyes team can outnumber you on the other 2 points and win. that node is not a safezone for you. its a zone contributing for you. meaning every time intervall it is in your hands, you gain points for it. in WvW you have indeed ontop a local advantage in that NPCs are there to help you fight, but that is just a minor difference.but indeed i think we will be talking forever in circles. because i understand your view, just dont side with it as i think the games overall balance is not within the encounters itself but in creating them, we wouldnt need as many towers / keeps etc. else.

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DemonSeed.3528

DemonSeed.3528

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How did he destroy it without being revealed? I can only imagine it'd take a really long time if he was doing it via certain mark stolen skills (the ones that don't reveal like poison etc) and signet of shadows + a venom but that is going to take ages. I doubt he was destroying it without being revealed unless they were really low and he hit it with certain condi skills in stealth. Maybe I misunderstood and you probably meant he destroyed them and went back into stealth.

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nativity.3057

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@Turk.5460 said:

@"Gorani.7205" said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

tbh 2/3 of the defense traitline for warriors is disabled for more than 30 secs once the passives are procced (if you run balanced stance trait)

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Jugglemonkey.8741

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@nativity.3057 said:

@"Gorani.7205" said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

tbh 2/3 of the defense traitline for warriors is disabled for more than 30 secs once the passives are procced (if you run balanced stance trait)

That's not really comparable, since you get all the bonuses of having those passives when they go off.

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Turk.5460

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@"Gorani.7205" said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -
which is more often than not picked with DE
. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable
other profession's traitlines
for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

tbh 2/3 of the defense traitline for warriors is disabled for more than 30 secs once the passives are procced (if you run balanced stance trait)

That's not really comparable, since you get all the bonuses of having those passives when they go off.

Not to mention that wouldn't be 2/3 anyway, that would be 2/6 (though as Juggle said you still receive the bonuses). Meanwhile Reveal disables 5.5/6 in SA. The 0.5 retained is the increased resurrection speed from the minor adept.

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schokelmei.8271

schokelmei.8271

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This isn't fun to play to be honest. Sure, you can leave him "alive" in your keep so he can destroy siege, kill anyone who should normally be safe inside and your solution is "leave him be". Why not just find a realistic solution for that problem and nerf stealth for once?The design of stealth and everything around it is bad, was bad and will be bad when we don't get more options to reveal players. OR make revealed last 2 or 3 times longer and triple the deadeye elite cd.

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Dante.1763

Dante.1763

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@Shining One.1635 said:

@"gebrechen.5643" said:Why not just find a realistic solution for that problem and nerf stealth for once?Let's give all internal structure NPCs
and dectuple damage against stealthed enemies. Deadeyes can continue to enjoy their permastealth outside structures and can no longer be irritating inside structures.

Okay take away the "dectuple" damage and to me that seems like a good solution, maybe have it just for keeps though, would it matter for towers?

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