Fix Deadeye Stealth or get rid of Stealth Traps

[SWI.4127]

@DeWolfe.2174 said:Shadow Meld needs to be removed from the game, its a bad design.

Yes, seriously. The only real counter to stealth is countered. Reveal skills were already situational, but this skill makes it not even worth taking at all. I don't know what they were thinking.

[ClaraFee.2579]

@Celsith.2753 said:Shadow meld can be used twice with a 5s cool down in between. Then it has a rather long recharge rate. You can carry supply for 2 traps.

It's not just traps. Ranger has only 1 Reveal skill, so the Thief will come out on top in that encounter, and it's because Reveal can be removed. Not cool :(

[Shadowcat.2680]

A simple solution would be to have the traps apply a unique version of revealed that's not removable by Shadow Meld or any other player skill.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@geist.9173 said:Just rework the traps that they kill any target that steps on them while stealthed.

Easy way to kill an entire zerg after a veil then. It would be funny to watch, but it's not gonna happen.

[Turk.5460]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:A simple solution would be to have the traps apply a unique version of revealed that's not removable by Shadow Meld or any other player skill.

Can we get a trap that disables every trait from the Soulbeast traitline for 30 seconds? I think that would be fair. Maybe one for each profession, right?

[Celsith.2753]

@ClaraFee.2579 said:

@Celsith.2753 said:Shadow meld can be used twice with a 5s cool down in between. Then it has a rather long recharge rate. You can carry supply for 2 traps.

It's not just traps. Ranger has only 1 Reveal skill, so the Thief will come out on top in that encounter, and it's because Reveal can be removed. Not cool :(

I generally find that Sic Em! allows me to target them long enough to start rapid fire. That's often all you need :/

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Celsith.2753 said:

@ClaraFee.2579 said:

@Celsith.2753 said:Shadow meld can be used twice with a 5s cool down in between. Then it has a rather long recharge rate. You can carry supply for 2 traps.

It's not just traps. Ranger has only 1 Reveal skill, so the Thief will come out on top in that encounter, and it's because Reveal can be removed. Not cool :(

I generally find that Sic Em! allows me to target them long enough to start rapid fire. That's often all you need :/

Which, even if it doesn't kill the thief, will usually force them to disengage, in stealth, which is a win to me.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:A simple solution would be to have the traps apply a unique version of revealed that's not removable by Shadow Meld or any other player skill.

Can we get a trap that disables every trait from the Soulbeast traitline for 30 seconds? I think that would be fair. Maybe one for each profession, right?

A smarter request would be for a rework of the Shadow Arts line if it's so easy to negate. :)

[sephiroth.4217]

@Vornollo.5182 said:

@"Heibi.4251" said:The point being, ANET added the stealth traps specifically to overcome long stealthing targets, plus the traps existed long before the Deadeye. It was designed to over come stealth no matter what. They made it to aid in clearing keeps, areas and structures of perma-stealth players. But ANET broke it with the broken Deadeye "Shadow Meld".

Actually, the traps are to counter the Stealth of Groups, rather than individuals. You know, that's why there's a

1200 radius reveal for 20 targets

upon activation and stuff. All these people making false claims on the forums...

No where in any of the patch notes do they specify what the traps intended intentions are except to remove stealth and to have it effect a reasonable amount of people... Meaning, you can use it for any situation whether it be keep clearing, messing up a veil bomb, roaming or just simply to deal with one guy.https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-secret-of-southsun/

Even in the promotion thread for them there is no mention of it being designed just for large group use..https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/#new-features-5

They were introduced to help with extremely high uptime on stealth, and they were introduced around the time the Ghost Thief trapper build was running rampant alongside the PU condi Mes... But sure, we can say they introduced it to stop the old hammer trains we used to have.

[Turk.5460]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:A simple solution would be to have the traps apply a unique version of revealed that's not removable by Shadow Meld or any other player skill.

Can we get a trap that disables every trait from the Soulbeast traitline for 30 seconds? I think that would be fair. Maybe one for each profession, right?

A smarter request would be for a rework of the Shadow Arts line if it's so easy to negate. :)

That's the obvious answer. However people want extremes and can't seem to look past "nerf this" without seeing that an entire traitline is already destroyed by one mechanic. So I bring an extreme answer to attempt to open their eyes as to why reveal is stupid against Thieves. Because we've already asked for a SA rework over and over and it's tiresome.

[Gorani.7205]

At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

[Turk.5460]

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

[whoknocks.4935]

All I always said about deadeye are basically 2 things.

-A daredevil D/P thief can be interrupted while using pistol5 into dagger2, It has a counterplay.Dodge into stealth is a lame mechanic which promote dodge spamming, and because associated with dodge cannot be interrupted, that's the stupid part, we all know when an ability is connected to dodge is usually stupidly overused and overpower, see mirage EM.

-Reveal is a mechanic introduced to counter stealth, no class have a really and good reveal ability, aybe only Dh if lucky to get the spear (very easy to dodge), or revenant (but it's a melee reveal), scrapper have a 1200 range reveal ability yeah, but yeah, scrapper? What's a scrapper?Deadeye is a perma stealth profession, what he has? A counter to reveal, like wtf haha It's like reveal is spammed every second and they need it.

Those are the nasty things of deadeye for me, the damage is oneshot and all, but it's so easy to dodge, and they usually die in 2 skills, but pro deadeyes, another story, the problem is their stealth spam without counterplay on dodge and the counter to reveal too easy to get rid off.

[MedievalThings.5417]

The only problem I have with the deadeye elite is that they can walk right over a reveal trap, and remove reveal and restealth BEFORE the trap actually reveals them. LIterally spent the last hour watching a guy walk right over traps without ever being revealed. Even toxic shot (which should reveal) doesn't seem to work. The combat log show I am hitting, yet the deadeye is NEVER removed from stealth. I even tried the DH reveal trap, nope, they hit the trap and the traps go off, but the deadeye never appears. And I am talking about wide open space where there is no hiding or LOS issues.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Ubi.4136 said:The only problem I have with the deadeye elite is that they can walk right over a reveal trap, and remove reveal and restealth BEFORE the trap actually reveals them. LIterally spent the last hour watching a guy walk right over traps without ever being revealed. Even toxic shot (which should reveal) doesn't seem to work. The combat log show I am hitting, yet the deadeye is NEVER removed from stealth. I even tried the DH reveal trap, nope, they hit the trap and the traps go off, but the deadeye never appears. And I am talking about wide open space where there is no hiding or LOS issues.

Not so sure if isnt reveal not working properly or the client desync, that makes the target not reveal in one of the sides :-\

Anet has its priorities i guess :\ and since doesnt bother nor disturbs pve... well we have to hold it..

[bq pd.2148]

@Ubi.4136 said:The only problem I have with the deadeye elite is that they can walk right over a reveal trap, and remove reveal and restealth BEFORE the trap actually reveals them. LIterally spent the last hour watching a guy walk right over traps without ever being revealed. Even toxic shot (which should reveal) doesn't seem to work. The combat log show I am hitting, yet the deadeye is NEVER removed from stealth. I even tried the DH reveal trap, nope, they hit the trap and the traps go off, but the deadeye never appears. And I am talking about wide open space where there is no hiding or LOS issues.

if you know where the trap is and get your timing prefect you can be visible for such a short time that the client wont show it, but you cant avoid the reveal if you trigger them.the dh traps are dodgeable, their inital hit aswell as all pulses. so again if you know where they are, you can dodge them. if i know exactly where the traps are and saw them being placed so i even know their direction, then i can aswell teleport over them. when i for instance try to rez a mesmer in an opposing keep, they often put traps on the mesmer. then i ask the mesmer to watch them placing the trap and tell me wich way they were facing, then i often can rez the mesmer without triggering the trap, even if they are right on top of the corpse.basically all those traps only are efficient if the target doesnt know where they are. thats why anti stealth traps are only 'usefull' when you already outnumber your target so their attention is not on the one placing it in wich case you should already be able to burst the deadeye within the 3s when they attack. thats why i doubt those traps were ever designed to fight a single thief / mesmer etc. for that a trick like a stealth disabler would be alot better. sure anet never mentioned the intention behind those but if they were to fight single targets, they could have done it much better.

[MedievalThings.5417]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Ubi.4136" said:The only problem I have with the deadeye elite is that they can walk right over a reveal trap, and remove reveal and restealth BEFORE the trap actually reveals them. LIterally spent the last hour watching a guy walk right over traps without ever being revealed. Even toxic shot (which should reveal) doesn't seem to work. The combat log show I am hitting, yet the deadeye is NEVER removed from stealth. I even tried the DH reveal trap, nope, they hit the trap and the traps go off, but the deadeye never appears. And I am talking about wide open space where there is no hiding or LOS issues.

if you know where the trap is and get your timing prefect you can be visible for such a short time that the client wont show it, but you cant avoid the reveal if you trigger them.the dh traps are dodgeable, their inital hit aswell as all pulses. so again if you know where they are, you can dodge them. if i know exactly where the traps are and saw them being placed so i even know their direction, then i can aswell teleport over them. when i for instance try to rez a mesmer in an opposing keep, they often put traps on the mesmer. then i ask the mesmer to watch them placing the trap and tell me wich way they were facing, then i often can rez the mesmer without triggering the trap, even if they are right on top of the corpse.basically all those traps only are efficient if the target doesnt know where they are. thats why anti stealth traps are only 'usefull' when you already outnumber your target so their attention is not on the one placing it in wich case you should already be able to burst the deadeye within the 3s when they attack. thats why i doubt those traps were ever designed to fight a single thief / mesmer etc. for that a trick like a stealth disabler would be alot better. sure anet never mentioned the intention behind those but if they were to fight single targets, they could have done it much better.

With the exception of the DH test, all the other traps were placed fully from stealth, so they could never have known where they were before hitting them. Since the last post I even tried shadow trap, and the second they hit it, it was removed and I was unable to port to them. I was less than 1k range from the trap. I have had the desync issue before, where stealth almost never ends but it doesn't seem like that is what is happening here. Watched them get hit and downed and one point. Downed health less than 10%, they "ported" for lack of a better word about 2k range and then gone, despite players bombing the spot they "ported" to.

[bq pd.2148]

@Ubi.4136 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:The only problem I have with the deadeye elite is that they can walk right over a reveal trap, and remove reveal and restealth BEFORE the trap actually reveals them. LIterally spent the last hour watching a guy walk right over traps without ever being revealed. Even toxic shot (which should reveal) doesn't seem to work. The combat log show I am hitting, yet the deadeye is NEVER removed from stealth. I even tried the DH reveal trap, nope, they hit the trap and the traps go off, but the deadeye never appears. And I am talking about wide open space where there is no hiding or LOS issues.

if you know where the trap is and get your timing prefect you can be visible for such a short time that the client wont show it, but you cant avoid the reveal if you trigger them.the dh traps are dodgeable, their inital hit aswell as all pulses. so again if you know where they are, you can dodge them. if i know exactly where the traps are and saw them being placed so i even know their direction, then i can aswell teleport over them. when i for instance try to rez a mesmer in an opposing keep, they often put traps on the mesmer. then i ask the mesmer to watch them placing the trap and tell me wich way they were facing, then i often can rez the mesmer without triggering the trap, even if they are right on top of the corpse.basically all those traps only are efficient if the target doesnt know where they are. thats why anti stealth traps are only 'usefull' when you already outnumber your target so their attention is not on the one placing it in wich case you should already be able to burst the deadeye within the 3s when they attack. thats why i doubt those traps were ever designed to fight a single thief / mesmer etc. for that a trick like a stealth disabler would be alot better. sure anet never mentioned the intention behind those but if they were to fight single targets, they could have done it much better.

With the exception of the DH test, all the other traps were placed fully from stealth, so they could never have known where they were before hitting them. Since the last post I even tried shadow trap, and the second they hit it, it was removed and I was unable to port to them. I was less than 1k range from the trap. I have had the desync issue before, where stealth almost never ends but it doesn't seem like that is what is happening here. Watched them get hit and downed and one point. Downed health less than 10%, they "ported" for lack of a better word about 2k range and then gone, despite players bombing the spot they "ported" to.

there is nothing in DE kit that can make you see traps or walk over traps without triggering them (disarming them). so i dont think that is a DE issue. more an issue with THAT player.

[RedShark.9548]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Ubi.4136 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:

With the exception of the DH test, all the other traps were placed fully from stealth, so they could never have known where they were before hitting them. Since the last post I even tried shadow trap, and the second they hit it, it was removed and I was unable to port to them. I was less than 1k range from the trap. I have had the desync issue before, where stealth almost never ends but it doesn't seem like that is what is happening here. Watched them get hit and downed and one point. Downed health less than 10%, they "ported" for lack of a better word about 2k range and then gone, despite players bombing the spot they "ported" to.

Not sure about recently, but a while back I wasn't able to set stealth disruptor traps whilst being stealthed for some time now, they would reveal my character (unless you didn't mean stealth disruptor trap) - although this used to work (on wiki it says it applies 30s reveal whether you are stealthed or not, so I'm not sure if what I experienced was something not intended), it was sometime last year that I remember the behaviour changed for me so I did not bother using them to surprise other thieves when I was on mine. I thought it would be interesting to mention anyway. I also recall a group of mesmers and thieves who were trying to get me out of their garri doing the same thing to me, putting down stealth disruptors while stealthed, so I know it's not my imagination. Eventually they got me though (I know there were no traps there beforehand as I was trying to trigger anything in the area before they came, and in the spot that I eventually triggered the trap they laid in stealth).

[Celsith.2753]

@"Ubi.4136" said:

With the exception of the DH test, all the other traps were placed fully from stealth, so they could never have known where they were before hitting them. Since the last post I even tried shadow trap, and the second they hit it, it was removed and I was unable to port to them. I was less than 1k range from the trap. I have had the desync issue before, where stealth almost never ends but it doesn't seem like that is what is happening here. Watched them get hit and downed and one point. Downed health less than 10%, they "ported" for lack of a better word about 2k range and then gone, despite players bombing the spot they "ported" to.

What kind of traps are you laying while stealthed? If you start laying a stealth trap while stealthed you get revealed. You can begin the cast and then gain stealth but either way you're visible for at least a short period. Or did you mean ranger/thief traps etc?

[Heibi.4251]

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Gorani.7205" said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

[bq pd.2148]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Gorani.7205 said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

you repeated your argument like 4 times in this thread, thats borderline spam

also, if sa is sooo ridiculous bad, dont play it...its not like everybody runs reveals anyways kitten are you talking about? reveal skills are so heavily situational that they are rarely seen and if taken should be able to shut down that stealth mechanic efficient.good thiefes will just move out of range with their mobillity if they think that the reveal will punish them that much if they dont run.

who runs sa anyways? most builds ive seen recently wont even touch that line.its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line (attunements arent even traits, its a core mechanic that effect ele waaaay more than your little sa traitline.thats just ridiculous to compare, especially the attunement bit.

except that like most deadeyes, this thread here complains about, actually do run SA in WvW.sure core and DD mostly dont run a stealthy build..maybe that is because reveal is just a too strong counter to it and they dont have an option to remove it.this thread here is about the trap not working against deadeyes.when a deadeye runs with SA, it has a good chance that most of his major traits have something to do with stealth. in my build its 7/9 traits and i could make it 8/9.thats all fine as long as i have shadow meld. if i dont have it you can essentially delete my build with such a trap. and thats exactly what people here demand that shadowmeld shouldnt work against that trap. in that case no attunement is a pretty low effect on the ele in comparison.so yep the issue is that reveal removes not just the invisibility but also disables a ton of other traits and skills.

[Turk.5460]

@Heibi.4251 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Gorani.7205" said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts - which is more often than not picked with DE. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable other profession's traitlines for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

@RedShark.9548 said:its not a mandatory line that defines the thief, like ele attunements or warrior defense line

LOL. So according to you, it is OK to disable Shadow Arts for 30seconds, however Warrior defense traitline being disabled for 30seconds is NOT OK?Shoo.

[Heibi.4251]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Heibi.4251 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Gorani.7205" said:At it's current form the trap does not work well against stealthed enemies (most likely Thief/Daredevil/Deadeye or Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage). At its core the problem is with having a counter skill vs stealth on more classes. Being able to put down the trap fast (change from 4 to 2 sec) or reduce the cost to be able to place two of them more easily would be a step in the right direction, as long as there is no change to Shadow Meld or a disadvantage to being in stealth.

Will this be implemented along with the trap that stops elementalists from changing attunements for 30seconds? I think that would be fair, don't you agree?

You keep getting off topic. The topic of this is Stealth Disruptor Traps being useless against a deadeye's restealth, which ignores the mechanic ANeT intentionally created when they introduced the Stealth Disruptor Trap. The trap was meant to be used to counter long stealthing thieves/mesmers in structures after it was taken or breached and then closed. They were also used in open areas to take down thieves who just wouldn't leave you alone. The Mechanic is a hard 30-second reveal "Hits up to 20 targets within a range of 1200. Applies Revealed for 30 seconds. It does not matter if you are in Stealth or not."

So lets stick to the topic at hand. Start your own thread if you wish to create traps for other classes' traits.

No, i'm using an extreme example that shows how dumb the trap really is to begin with in regards to the current state of reveal and Shadow Arts -

which is more often than not picked with DE

. So if it is addressed in a manner that negatively impacts DE, wouldn't that open up the possibility of ANET introducing new neutral items that disable

other profession's traitlines

for a period of time? Just because you can't refute my argument doesn't automatically make it off-topic. So why don't you actually try to address my argument instead of dismissing it as a different topic?

Also - can you please cite your source on how the trap was meant to be used? Because nowhere in the patch notes reflects your reason - please refrain from presenting your opinion as a fact in the future.

Read the notes:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth_Disruptor_Trap

It was added about 5 years ago, long before DE was introduced. The trap isn't dumb, it was an answer to perma-stealth builds - ANET made it because they realized the monster they created. When they created the DE they probably screwed up and didn't make an exception to re-stealthing when a DE is hit with a stealth trap(Wouldn't be the first time ANeT missed one of their own mechanics.).

Every DE we've encountered in WvW inside a keep or tower or SMC has been using the perma-stealth method to avoid being killed. We had an entire zerg dropping traps everywhere in one case and the DE would appear for about a half a second and go right back in, and not appear again unless they attack or got hit by a trap(only to stealth immediately right after). So they are definitely running traits for perma-stealth.

You are clearly off topic when you are not addressing the problem that the trap is not working AS INTENDED BY ANET. The premise of this thread is a question to ANeT - Either fix the DE so it doesn't cancel out the Stealth Disruptor Trap, or get rid of the trap since it not longer does what it was INTENDED TO DO.