[Feedback] Mad King's Raceway [merged]

[Vis.2046]

Do you think it's a good idea to include a "hardcore" achievement in the meta of the holiday event?An achievement with a lower time than the gold achievement?

Sorry, you don't need some statistics to see that's a really bad idea.

It's the same like with the tower.

Please change the meta to 8 of 10 soon.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

For a race that seems to be designed for the purpose of drifting, the most horrible environment has been selected to put it in. In a real drifting race a track like this would've immediately been disqualified or deemed highly dangerous. The turns are too sharp and in some cases also way too narrow to maneuver through with high speed, there are way too many obstacles in the environment that completely screw up the race if you hit one of them. At first sight the arena looks perfect for drifting: long stretches of distance and some hills to launch yourself from. But upon closer inspection that is so much that interferes with the race.

Someone mentioned WipeOut early in the thread and I think that is a good comparison. In that game they know how to design drifting tracks, with sharp turns and corners. What also helps is that in WipeOut you can't get off track, while this race repeatedly does that. In part that is because the drifting mechanic really doesn't seem to work half of the time. I've tried to use the technique many times but more often that not I don't see my beetle turning so it effectively moves sideways.

I've also seen some videos of people doing the race. All kinds of tricks are used to gain the fastest time, and even then it is extremely close to the time limit. Now I know that in some races it pays off to switch mounts during, for instance the race in the Crown Pavilion where switching to griffon in the bandit camp part actually circumvents messing up the wooden ladders with your raptor. But in a race it's usually not the intention to have "drivers" switch "vehicles" for small parts just because one vehicle functions better in that specific part than the one you started with. So in my opinion any race that requires you to switch mounts and use character port skills to make the set time limit is a failed race. A successful drifting track allows you to maintain speed or pick it up quickly after a drift, instead of this race track which I consider to be effectively an obstacle course. A more suitable track and a reliable drifting mechanic would solve many of the issues.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I don’t personally see any issues with there being challenging content, or achievements, in festivals. Not all content needs to appeal to every player and certainly many do appreciate being challenged.

As far as the race/trial itself, I found it to be fairly well suited for beetle. Its tests players’ ability to use the beetle and would have been fairly boring if it was just a nascar track.

The meta achievement requires this or the JP. Completing the meta achievement isn’t really necessary to enjoy the festival. All it provides is 50AP and a mini that people would most likely never use.

[Cyndercat.7615]

After finishing the achievement finally id like to give feedback on the race. It took me around 4 hours of trying to get 3 sub 1 minute runs.

1. The beetle drifting mechanic isnt intuitive. I was trying to hold down the drift key while turning, which is consistent with other racing style games drifts, for the entire first hour and thinking my beetle was bugged. I had to google to find out how the mechanic worked. Additionally, drifting in a small area can feel clunky.

   • to drift, you hold mount skill 2 down 1 second in advance while moving forward -> start turning your beetle the direction you want to drift while holding the key -> when facing the direction let it go immediately
   • you cant drift immediatly after boosting, theres a 1secondish delay. (this caused me another hour of failure until i realised)
   • if you are going too fast you will overshoot. to stop this happening, let go of W after boosting and let beetle roll on its own. you can also press S to break but this should only be necessary once in the race.

2. The map clearly isnt designed for beetle. I think the devs did do a good job creating a functioning race out of this map as it does need skillful use of drift to win. In this i'd say its a small success. However its not fun, in my opinion. The map is cluttered with tiny obstacles, crashing into even 1 of these totally kills the run. This took away any feeling of achievement at drifting perfectly around corners, which was good, and made an annoyance at having to time everything near frame perfect to avoid all the clutter which was terrible.

   • In the future id like to see races get their own custom built maps, even if they are lower quality than normal so they are more fitting to the beetles mechanic.

3. The race event was just super annoying, constantly interrupting any progress I was making with 7 minute downtime. Please separate race and adventure in the future, or allow them to be played simultaneously.

4. I think it was a mistake to require either beetle race or clocktower for the basic annual reward. I feel the general reward should be accessible to the majority of players. Currently it isnt as both are very difficult achieves probably aimed at 10% of players. Honestly id say beetle race is harder than raids to pull off.
   I do think its fine to require beetle for the 50AP. The is the advanced reward and it seems appropriate to reward skill and dedication for purely achievement points.

[hugo.4705]

Here is a longer feedback from me about what I consider as issues:

Firstly, as stated before, the information, it should be clearly explained to players how to increase their dive speed with gryphon, how to drift with beetle.

Secondly, the track himself, 3/4 of the rings are near fences/ tombstones whereas beetle have a VERY BAD detection of collision, if you hit ONE grave or ONE fence you're out of the success "Mad drifter" way far worst than the labyrinthine cliff gryphon master where the difficulty was very high.

Thirdly, the mechanic herself, if your mount would drift instantly in the direction you are pressing the key, it would be okay, but here is currently what I should do, and it doesn't work very well: Using speed boost - Pressing Mount skill 2 key - Pressing the direction key I want + PRESSING IN SAME TIME my mouse to turn the camera (because if I'm not doing that, NO DRIFT my mount run into the wall.

Final point, the TIMER himself!!! A serious problem since a long time... (ls4e2 -> exterminator golem) here again, not sufficient, in both case, it should have been increased by 20 seconds. (maybe more for golem, another story).

Conclusion, almost possible with jackal + stamina mastery (1: 24) my best time, again as said, +20-25 secs seems good. (1:15) with my beetle currently if bouncing against the walls and using a pumpkin bomb to slow me down. A ghost door should be added. many players I met are lost and can't find the exit.The adventure shouldn't be disable during the race event, btw, what's the point? It's literally the same event! Could have a been replaced with a funnier event, like treasure hunt.

[Kamp.9275]

I do not think the 1 minute mark is too hard. It's not much different than getting gold in some of the griffon challenges. The isn't much room for mistakes. It took me about an hour to get below the 1 minute mark. I think the key points are:1) Use beetle only2) Learn both how to drift © and how to regain endurance while airborne (Space bar)3) Markers/portals are much larger then they look. You just need to go near them to activate them, so learn which ones you can just pass for a more optimal drift pattern4) It's not about goint full tilt speed as much as possible. It's more important to stay at an increased controlable speed almost all the time, and you do this by only drifting just enough to make the turns without loosing too much speed. If you loose momentum and slow to raptor speed, you are too slow. Save the insane speed boost for the long stretches.5) When drifting, just tab C, don't hold it, and remember to let go of the forward key (W) while turning/drifting. That way you do not loose too much speed.6) Drift well ahead of the turn, cut the corners7) Go left of the first portal, not through it.8) At least one of the pumpkin heads can be used as a fast stop. The one after the first long straight has a blue orb next to it to quickly regain endurance and speed boost across the middle of the course. You may want to key bind your beetle mount to a mouse key.9) Try to use speed boost before hitting the blue orbs.10) Read number 6 again. Get the inside track.

I didn't mind the event version, since I believe the laps here count as well, if you make a lap in under 1 minute. I did not get under a minute in the event, so someone needs to confirm that. And you get a flying start in lap 2 and 3, so it should be easier during the event.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t personally see any issues with there being challenging content, or achievements, in festivals. Not all content needs to appeal to every player and certainly many do appreciate being challenged.

As far as the race/trial itself, I found it to be fairly well suited for beetle. Its tests players’ ability to use the beetle and would have been fairly boring if it was just a nascar track.

The meta achievement requires this or the JP. Completing the meta achievement isn’t really necessary to enjoy the festival. All it provides is 50AP and a mini that people would most likely never use.

And it's this 50AP a year that a lot of people are interested in, especially those who have already reached the daily cap, since ANet is very stingy with handing out AP. They've been trying to put in a few achievements with festivals to give people a little boost, but this one requires 9 out of 10 achievements. 3 of those achievements require content that people find difficult (Mad King's Clocktower and 2 drift race achievements, 'Mad Drifter' and 'Lunatic Racer'). I don't mind them being part of this new meta, but at least lower the requirement from 9 to 7, so people who have difficulty with such content (disabled people and high ping regions, for instance) have a chance to get their 50AP as well. It's not as if AP in this game is rewarded for incredible feats. As much fun as I find AP hunting to be sometimes, we get it for the most ridiculous of things, and many don't require any skill.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

How to drift ? Do we push the key ? Do we let down the button? Do we curb too with S, or let down W ?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I don’t personally see any issues with there being challenging content, or achievements, in festivals. Not all content needs to appeal to every player and certainly many do appreciate being challenged.

As far as the race/trial itself, I found it to be fairly well suited for beetle. Its tests players’ ability to use the beetle and would have been fairly boring if it was just a nascar track.

The meta achievement requires this or the JP. Completing the meta achievement isn’t really necessary to enjoy the festival. All it provides is 50AP and a mini that people would most likely never use.

And it's this 50AP a year that a lot of people are interested in, especially those who have already reached the daily cap, since ANet is very stingy with handing out AP. They've been trying to put in a few achievements with festivals to give people a little boost, but this one requires 9 out of 10 achievements. 3 of those achievements require content that people find difficult (Mad King's Clocktower and 2 drift race achievements, 'Mad Drifter' and 'Lunatic Racer'). I don't mind them being part of this new meta, but at least lower the requirement from 9 to 7, so people who have difficulty with such content (disabled people and high ping regions, for instance) have a chance to get their 50AP as well. It's not as if AP in this game is rewarded for incredible feats. As much fun as I find AP hunting to be sometimes, we get it for the most ridiculous of things, and many don't require any skill.

Lunatic racer isn’t difficult. If you can do it without being dismounted then you have like 20-30 sec to spare. I got it the first time after being dismounted several times and have to run away until mobs leashed.

[Demonz.9267]

the beetle is impossible to control. In open world, it's useful in linear paths, but when it turns, we constantly hit walls... The way it moves is completly random, and the race event (not the activity, with the yellow star) spawns every 5 minutes, preventing us from trying again for 6 or 7 minutes. You're saying that based on your statistics, if people play it again and again, it's because they like it. Actually, if people are trying again and again, it's because it's freaking difficult and frustrating, and eventually, they will give up at a moment, being disgusted from the reward of 50 achievments points they can't get. It's like putting a candy in front of a little kid, and taking it away. It's unfair. Unfair like the new set of armors that only richs can get... the armor requiring the sigil of nullification which wasn't even commented by arenanet, despite all the frustration from the players.

It's funny to have a forum and to seek for feedback, but we need a reaction, not hopes. Players are those who pay for the servers and for the employees. The minimum you owe us, is to make us satisfied. Some people are so addicted that you can mess with their mood, they will keep playing, but for how long?I would've leave the game after the nullification sigil "scandal" if a friend of mine didn't ask me to go back in game. If you keep creating frustrating events, I'll reconsider leaving, because their's no point in playing a game that makes you angry.

[rwolf.9571]

Guess ppl wanted "Initial D" what anet gave was Colin McRae Rally with a drift car on bald greased tires.

I find most of the track to be "ok" but the last 2 corners, were it is stupidly tight, is not fun at all. (too much tomb stones, and junk to even attempt to drift through, just hitting everything and losing speed)

Like others said, the race interrupting your time trial is super annoying. I rather afk, or do mad king clock tower instead till the race is over.

Currently at rank 500 with a time of 1:10. Yeah don't think much ppl will get the requisite under 1 minute mark for their meta.

Edit: just snaked in at 59:6 rank 250...

[Dante.1763]

So, i just ran the race a few times on various mounts. as a racetrack meant for a beetle the obstacles are far to many and if the track was actually meant for drifting it would and should have way fewer obstacles, and a much more..less time intensive gold timer if the obstacles cant be changed. On top of that the beetle is bugged for numbers of people and apparently including myself and im unable to do anything but go straight forward, the Drifting keybind even if changed doesnt allow me to drift and therefore getting a gold is impossible.

[Paciejka.3152]

I did it (59.44). It took me a few hours and now I'm sure - I hate beetle mout. But the worst part of it was waiting for event to end. It's too often and takes too long. Damn, now I need to do it 2 more time for annual achi... T.TAnyway, I want to thank ppl here for advices, they help me a lot. :)

[Garfried.7295]

Just want to say that while the track is difficult, if you get the hang of it its actually quite fun to race it. The entire track can be done at high speed and its fun to keep on improving your time. The thing with an easy track is that its not that hard to get a perfect time, whereas here it forms a real challenge. With practice, you can even hit sub 45s.

While i think its a fun track, that doesnt mean that i think its a bit of a shame that it is doesnt seem like the map was really designed to fit a race track into it. Nevertheless, i think for a first try its not so bad, but i hope that we will see dedicated maps with tracks with future festivals (wintersday?)My last issue: on the leaderboard you can only see your friends time, but i would also like a top10 or top20 leaderboard. Currently, if you are rank 2 but you dont have rank 1 in your friends list, you dont know what time you have to beat. Also, a reward for getting the fastest time should be that you can show it off a bit ;)

[Kas.3509]

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

If a hundred people say "I don't like it" but data shows that many thousands or tens of thousands are participating in the content, you have to wonder if we have a echo chamber effect, where a small number of people share their feelings, another member of that small group agrees, and group members come to consider that echo a form of "proof" that their opinion is absolute fact. Now, I'm not suggesting we have that sort of data at this point -- it's probably early to gather it. However, I imagine we will acquire that data, and when we do, if the statistics suggest that we might want to make changes, then those who make constructive suggestions will be of greater help than the "I don't like it (no details, no suggestions)" crowd. :D

Well I think people who don't like it are these who are spending much time on it, just because they want achievement. but they still hate it mostly.I'm just unskilled at drifting so I won't voice my opinion : p But it's too hard for me to complete under 1 min even if I trained every day for 2 hours until the Halloween ends, drifting appears to not be my thing, I'll stay with my jumping puzzles.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

The biggest problem is how often the race interrupts practicing and going for the Adventure. They should be separated or the race should spawn a lot slower than it does. Feels like the race interrupts adventure constantly.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:If a hundred people say "I don't like it" but data shows that many thousands or tens of thousands are participating in the content, you have to wonder if we have a echo chamber effect, where a small number of people share their feelings, another member of that small group agrees, and group members come to consider that echo a form of "proof" that their opinion is absolute fact. Now, I'm not suggesting we have that sort of data at this point -- it's probably early to gather it. However, I imagine we will acquire that data, and when we do, if the statistics suggest that we might want to make changes, then those who make constructive suggestions will be of greater help than the "I don't like it (no details, no suggestions)" crowd.I'm genuinely curious how many people come back to the track after getting 25 AP from the repeatable "Mad King's Herald (Intern)" achievement. Because that one takes no skill at all and requires 15 play-throughs, a tempting effort/reward ratio that probably attracts a lot of players.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@"Vis.2046" said:Do you think it's a good idea to include a "hardcore" achievement in the meta of the holiday event?An achievement with a lower time than the gold achievement?

Sorry, you don't need some statistics to see that's a really bad idea.

It's the same like with the tower.

Please change the meta to 8 of 10 soon.

Just making the one for the meta require Silver would be enough to solve the issue this year, keep the Gold for the permanent achievement. Next year streamline the map so it works better with the beetle.

[Ghostrider.6879]

@"Garfried.7295" said:Just want to say that while the track is difficult, if you get the hang of it its actually quite fun to race it. The entire track can be done at high speed and its fun to keep on improving your time. The thing with an easy track is that its not that hard to get a perfect time, whereas here it forms a real challenge. With practice, you can even hit sub 45s.

While i think its a fun track, that doesnt mean that i think its a bit of a shame that it is doesnt seem like the map was really designed to fit a race track into it. Nevertheless, i think for a first try its not so bad, but i hope that we will see dedicated maps with tracks with future festivals (wintersday?)My last issue: on the leaderboard you can only see your friends time, but i would also like a top10 or top20 leaderboard. Currently, if you are rank 2 but you dont have rank 1 in your friends list, you dont know what time you have to beat. Also, a reward for getting the fastest time should be that you can show it off a bit ;)

Nicely done! Thank you for letting us know the fastest time. Now I have a clear goal.

[Bilibloc.4813]

I think it's too hard and gw2 is not a race game, even if the mount system is great the race itself is a mess, not especially well designed and too hard for an "funny halloween event" , the griffons races where better when i saw the race i hoped that it would be like a multy mount race or something. But the engine seems not made for this. The command are slow answer poorly and below 1 min is something too hard for most of the players. It's frustrating even you succeed because you feel like if you where cheating with the game. Every race before where managable, gave some challenge but this one is insane (and do not put it on our beloved king) ... The idea of doing an stop every 10 min to make the race multy is even worse when you try to practice... And let's say so this race is very ugly and not really well design i was expecting better level design...Unsatisfying, way way too hard, ugly and bad level design and not very "funny haloween race mind". I loved and golded every race before this one but i have to say it:This is the worst (halloween) event i ever played.

My advice: when it's a time limit event with a mini at the end don't do frustrating things llike that, it's an MMO, not a real gameplay action based game, ppl who play MMOs shouldnt have to do that, to grind : ok, to search for hours : ok, to team up to beat down ferocous monster : of course, but to try hard an obviously unapropriate task in the hope to get a mini from the most popular event to the game where they spent countless hours doing what a game of this type should ask you until now is a mistake no matter if some very tallented and crasy dedicated guys succeed. That's a game a good dynamic mmo but not that point. It actually doesn't fit. At all. Make it funnier, easier or just low the gold race to 1:20 or something. Beside i think the requierment of the beetle questionable since it's not a mount from the extension and you could miss it when the episode was free. So to win an free event you might need to pay...

[PearlJam.4607]

Would love to see that dev who made 2 ridiculous events as must to do in annual achievement. I can't do JP's with fast spinning movements, I can't do this kind of drifting stuff because of speed. ArenaNet team should learn what is accessibility and usability and why people are different.... damn, it's 101 of design...

[Ayrilana.1396]

If people are hitting sub 50 seconds, I say that no adjustments need to be made at all. Clearly there’s plenty of room for improvement to get a better time as it’s not as tight as people are making it out to be.

Edit: fixing grammar

[Deepcuts.9740]

Tried it today. What a monumental waste of time.A simple search for "raceway" images would have cleared things up a bit for the people that made this. I am now sure that they never saw a raceway.

[PearlJam.4607]

mmmmmmmmmmm

[Dante.1763]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:If people are hit sub 50 second, I say that no adjustments need to be made at all. Clearly there’s plenty of room for improvement to get a better time as it’s not as tight as people are making it out to be.

Discounting the bugs which actively stop people from drifting, a necessary skill and mechanic, correct?