'Slippery Slope' instabilty is terrible for cliffside [merged]

[zealex.9410]

@Cyninja.2954 said:My initial thougt:Nice, all these years of SAB have payed off.

My second thought (after going Cliffside with this instability ):Yeah, they are either going to remove it or restrict it in certain fractals.

I'm currently split in totally removing it or restricting. While I'm fine with slippery in certaim fractals, I know it would trigger a ton of players. Maybe stability could negate this, that would add an extra element of build an adaptation.

IIrc they did have it being negated by stab iternally and it proved abit random. I can see it working well when theres like a jumping puzzle or a positioning intense part so the group stacks stab before but theres also abit or random stab being thrown out and that in fights with aoes etc could lead into some randomness.

Edit: ye ben said so above mb.

[Teratus.2859]

I really have to try fractals before this gets fixed because it sounds like a right laugh :D

Ohh for April Fools this year can we get slippy shoes prank?I'll die laughing at everyone running around the game slipping and sliding everywhere XDI'll personally try and do as many jp's as I can just for fun.

[DoNotBelieveMe.3029]

Aside from the 'benign' instabilities (where they do no direct damage to players or increase incoming damage) like slippery slope or the current social awkwardness, instability design right now just feels really lazy (not that it wasn't before) and more importantly incompatible with anything where you have to fight clusters of mobs.

They learnt that in cliffside with toxic trail, but they brought back unmitigatable damage in the form of 'we bleed fire'(unless you have projectile destruction equipped).

If you happen to be in meelee range of a bunch of mobs with we bleed fire and you hit them all once with an AoE, GG to you, instant 6 to 15 stacks of burning on top of the raw damage from the missile. "Don't be in meelee range then?" Tell that to the warriors/guardians/whoever mains a meelee weapon.

A few of the instabilities 'seem' to have a grand goal of making players learn to adapt to learn to mitigate damage by either using skills to cluster adds, or using unique skills like blind and projectile destruction. Except you know, stuff for that already exists like zealex mentioned in ascalon fractal (Certain mobs there hit hard, and can insta-down you without any buff from instabilities if you do not blind or cc them), just to name 1 example.

You can't just randomly slap these extra mechanics unto cluster of mobs and buff their attack so they one shot you.If the aim is that, might as well just tune up the raw damage of the mobs back to when they were like when the max level fractal was 50, because what the current instabilities are doing with the incoming dmg buffs are just that, just hidden behind conditions that can usually not be overcome. (e.g. who would willing play without boons just to avoid the extra damage from Boon overload?)

Once again, this is for fractals with clusters of mobs, or any encounter where there are more attacks than you can reasonably dodge. I am all for getting one shot if it's a cleanly telegraphed, perfectly dodge-able attack that does not happen in a split second succession to another attack.

Culprits(existing): Afflicted/ toxic trail/ last laugh(new): Boon overload / fraility / we bleed fire / vengeance / outflanked / sugar rush

Not sure if there is an ICD on vengeance but given the amount of boons it applies to enemy mobs, it would be more than players can strip if fighting a cluster of mobs.

[DrFox.8091]

This Slippery slope is just a nightmare! Lost 1 hour yesterday in underground and it drove all my group mad.Anet you have to understand : we play for fun and that is all except a fun instability (or maybe the first 5 seconds).Think a little about new players or even casual ones and this kind of ideas please..!There is some new instabilities wich are not fun (like the birds one) but we can still try to manage them.But this slippery thing is just way too much. I will not play any more fractals with this instability activate.Please to remove it for all fractals.

[cthaeh.2168]

There are, what, maybe ~20 fractals now? And you designed a stability that straight up breaks 20% of them, plus you had to remove it from certain parts of other fractals? At that point, you remove it from the game and design a new one. Better yet, how about you stop spending time trying to rework years-old content your players are sick to death of and just make some, you know, more content.

[Memoranda.9386]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@"Memoranda.9386" said:Volcanic wasn't that bad, actually. Just spike down the barrier at each phase, then back up to range to keep all the elementals in front of you. My PUGs didn't really have an issue with it and they struggled on much easier parts of other Fractals.

Social Awkwardness is fun, though. Bumper cars! Definitely not enjoying any part of Slippery Slope...

I think the change on Social Awkwardness can be seen this way or that way problem is stacking became really impossible also you can kick someone into an aoe or over the edge.

What I'm really see as problematic is "Boon Overload" I can't see me as Ele doing a fractal with it without boons I can't do (much) dmg and with it I die instantly. I don't know if they stack by adding or multiplication ? Anyway it doesn't make much different in the range I calculated with 6 you have 30% more dmg incoming but with 10 it already 50(64)% more dmg this should be enough to get down with one hit .

Boon Overload should be reduced to 3-3.5%

We had it last night and Boon Overload didn't appear to be too much of an issue, although we had one guy who spent the entirety of each boss encounter downed/dead... I think it is too much overall; there should be a maximum cap of, say, 25 - 30%?

Most normal damage mitigation (i.e., dodge) should render it effectively pointless, excepting encounters with tons of adds/AoE.

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

A lot of people are speculating about the instability being present in fractals in which it is not. Slippery slope is only enabled for:

Mai TrinChaos Isles (With Exclusions)Shattered ObservatoryDeepstone (One exclusion)Molten FurnaceMolten BossSnowblindUrban Battlegrounds

Through testing we determined that for some fractals it simply did not work so we disabled it for those. As I said before, Cliffside and Underground Facility were intended to be excluded, but were not due to a bug.

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

They learnt that in cliffside with toxic trail, but they brought back unmitigatable damage in the form of 'we bleed fire'(unless you have projectile destruction equipped).

Yes, the point of this instability is to promote the specific counterplay of projectile reflection or destruction. Without that, you will be taking more damage unless you use other active defenses.

[Aeon.4583]

I did post my opinion, in another thread, maybe they are merged now. But...

I really think you miscalculated alot of things while adding Slippery and Ouflanked instabilities.Slippery Slope: Almost all of fractals have some kind of Jumping Puzzle, or otherwise small cliffside area where you should stand your ground. You can't because of it.Outflanked: Alot, i mean ALOT of non Champion mobs in fractals do critical damage. Average of this crit damage is 15000 from single enemy. Now it is 45k (300% out of 15k). But imagine if there will be 5 or 10 of them doing critical damage and outflanking you, because you know, they have wide-ranged agro.

But if you really intend to keep Slippery, just a simple suggestion: make it disabled if character Walks, make it enabled when character Runs.

[Pirindolo.9427]

@"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:A lot of people are speculating about the instability being present in fractals in which it is not. Slippery slope is only enabled for:

Mai TrinChaos Isles (With Exclusions)Shattered ObservatoryDeepstone (One exclusion)Molten FurnaceMolten BossSnowblindUrban Battlegrounds

Through testing we determined that for some fractals it simply did not work so we disabled it for those. As I said before, Cliffside and Underground Facility were intended to be excluded, but were not due to a bug.

"ONLY" enabled for those.Can you tell me how to survive the add phases of Mai Trin and Molten Boss T4 with slippery slope and 2 more of those """"friendly""""" insts (outflanked, birds, we bleed fire...)????????

An insts that you cannot avoid whatever you do must be removed.

[Pirindolo.9427]

This new insts system makes having a specific build ready for quite a few of the new inst and for a lot of combos involving them.

I don't think that ppl are willing to spend 30 or 40 minutes in the last room of swampland.I don't think that ppl are ready to have 20 or 30 build variations for when "this inst" or that "combo of insts" show up in a daily fractal.I don't think devs concept of "variety" (regarding the insts they developped) is compatible with the players concept of "fun".

[Eramonster.2718]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:A lot of people are speculating about the instability being present in fractals in which it is not. Slippery slope is only enabled for:

Mai TrinChaos Isles (With Exclusions)Shattered ObservatoryDeepstone (One exclusion)Molten FurnaceMolten BossSnowblindUrban Battlegrounds

Through testing we determined that for some fractals it simply did not work so we disabled it for those. As I said before, Cliffside and Underground Facility were intended to be excluded, but were not due to a bug.

"ONLY" enabled for those.Can you tell me how to survive the add phases of Mai Trin and Molten Boss T4 with slippery slope and 2 more of those """"friendly""""" insts (outflanked, birds, we bleed fire...)????????

An insts that you cannot avoid whatever you do must be removed.

Tbh, I see most of the instability easy; buff if used correctly or can be managed. But going to have to try out more to find out if there's any nasty combination out there (its only day 1 after all). The only difference I can tell is (1) a healer role seems to be mandate or required most of the time. (2) Power base got stronger than Condi with the new instabilities.

[Asum.4960]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:A lot of people are speculating about the instability being present in fractals in which it is not. Slippery slope is only enabled for:

Mai TrinChaos Isles (With Exclusions)Shattered ObservatoryDeepstone (One exclusion)Molten FurnaceMolten BossSnowblindUrban Battlegrounds

Through testing we determined that for some fractals it simply did not work so we disabled it for those. As I said before, Cliffside and Underground Facility were intended to be excluded, but were not due to a bug.

Wait, so 100CM with Slippery Slope is actually going to be a thing some grim day?Cant wait to see people slide off into nothingness for 2h, instead of the usual 15 minutes run. Sounds like great fun..

[kajoken.1630]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:A lot of people are speculating about the instability being present in fractals in which it is not. Slippery slope is only enabled for:

Mai TrinChaos Isles (With Exclusions)Shattered ObservatoryDeepstone (One exclusion)Molten FurnaceMolten BossSnowblindUrban Battlegrounds

Through testing we determined that for some fractals it simply did not work so we disabled it for those. As I said before, Cliffside and Underground Facility were intended to be excluded, but were not due to a bug.

Just. Remove. This. Cr*p. Thx.

[Grogba.6204]

Fractals are dead content for me now, shame.

Well, good thing the game offers a diverse set of not-abandoned five player group conten- oh wait.

[Vinceman.4572]

@"Aeon.4583" said:Outflanked: Alot, i mean ALOT of non Champion mobs in fractals do critical damage. Average of this crit damage is 15000 from single enemy. Now it is 45k (300% out of 15k). But imagine if there will be 5 or 10 of them doing critical damage and outflanking you, because you know, they have wide-ranged agro.

Outflanked is all about positioning. If you do it correctly and not jump around like all the clueless pugs you are fine or even better on because enemies only do 75% of their usual damage."Outflanked: Foes within a range of 300 do 300% damage when attacking from behind, but only 75% damage when attacking head-on."Don't play with action cam (I think or better: I hope that is what most of the people are doing) and you will notice every enemy trying to sneak up on you from behind. Pulls - common tactic since years in groups with people knowing their class) - ease things up.The whole instability is more of a buff than a threat.

[phs.6089]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"Aeon.4583" said:Outflanked: Alot, i mean ALOT of non Champion mobs in fractals do critical damage. Average of this crit damage is 15000 from single enemy. Now it is 45k (300% out of 15k). But imagine if there will be 5 or 10 of them doing critical damage and outflanking you, because you know, they have wide-ranged agro.

Outflanked is all about positioning. If you do it correctly and not jump around like all the clueless pugs you are fine or even better on because enemies only do 75% of their usual damage."Outflanked: Foes within a range of 300 do 300% damage when attacking from behind, but only 75% damage when attacking head-on."Don't play with action cam (I think or better: I hope that is what most of the people are doing) and you will notice every enemy trying to sneak up on you from behind. Pulls - common tactic since years in groups with people knowing their class) - ease things up.The whole instability is more of a buff than a threat.

Thanumanova today, going to the last boss, Vet Ghost crits me on the back, one shot, boonbests are jealost, lol.Outflanked + Stick Together nice combo fro Thaumanova btw

[Pirindolo.9427]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"Aeon.4583" said:Outflanked: Alot, i mean ALOT of non Champion mobs in fractals do critical damage. Average of this crit damage is 15000 from single enemy. Now it is 45k (300% out of 15k). But imagine if there will be 5 or 10 of them doing critical damage and outflanking you, because you know, they have wide-ranged agro.

Outflanked is all about positioning. If you do it correctly and not jump around like all the clueless pugs you are fine or even better on because enemies only do 75% of their usual damage."Outflanked: Foes within a range of 300 do 300% damage when attacking from behind, but only 75% damage when attacking head-on."Don't play with action cam (I think or better: I hope that is what most of the people are doing) and you will notice every enemy trying to sneak up on you from behind. Pulls - common tactic since years in groups with people knowing their class) - ease things up.The whole instability is more of a buff than a threat.

Nice words. Now just record a video showing us how to do that in swampland or Molten Boss.

[Aeon.4583]

@"Vinceman.4572" said:

Outflanked is all about positioning. If you do it correctly and not jump around like all the clueless pugs you are fine or even better on because enemies only do 75% of their usual damage."Outflanked: Foes within a range of 300 do 300% damage when attacking from behind, but only 75% damage when attacking head-on."Don't play with action cam (I think or better: I hope that is what most of the people are doing) and you will notice every enemy trying to sneak up on you from behind. Pulls - common tactic since years in groups with people knowing their class) - ease things up.The whole instability is more of a buff than a threat.You can't properly position youself, fighting with enemy in front of you, while you have archers or granaders in unreachable place behind you, not to mention all around you. Plus, try to play with outflanked in Swamplands, the very fractal that is designed to outflank you and everyone in your party.

[phs.6089]

I just had a simple idea. Do you want to make fractals fun?

Make those instabilities to randomly, somethings affect players. Give us a week of 'instabilities' (just like wvw gets week of special events) let us deal 300% damage from behind, leave toxic trail, enrage and get random boons etc.

[spankyed.4735]

Hey, just tried the new fractal debuffs, 30% less health and 25 % speed ? tell me how does the speed outweigh the 30 % health loss if u r standing hitting boss?

advice: if its not broken dont fix it

[TexZero.7910]

@Aeon.4583 said:

@"Vinceman.4572" said:

Outflanked is all about positioning. If you do it correctly and not jump around like all the clueless pugs you are fine or even better on because enemies only do 75% of their usual damage."Outflanked: Foes within a range of 300 do 300% damage when attacking from behind, but only 75% damage when attacking head-on."Don't play with action cam (I think or better: I hope that is what most of the people are doing) and you will notice every enemy trying to sneak up on you from behind. Pulls - common tactic since years in groups with people knowing their class) - ease things up.The whole instability is more of a buff than a threat.You can't properly position youself, fighting with enemy in front of you, while you have archers or granaders in unreachable place behind you, not to mention all around you. Plus, try to play with outflanked in Swamplands, the very fractal that is designed to outflank you and everyone in your party.

Wut ?

Swamp is easy to do with outflanked. Even the last segement provides very little threat as you can pull the adds away and nuke the boss before any problems arise.

[Rico.6873]

This reminds me of mountain climbing where everybody is tied to each other. Now imagine everybody tied to each other with this slippery slib :)

Edit: you ever tried increasing the quickness/stability duration with this instability where quickness makes you slide faster and Stability gives you more control over your own sliding?

[Vinceman.4572]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Nice words. Now just record a video showing us how to do that in swampland or Molten Boss.

@Aeon.4583 said:You can't properly position youself, fighting with enemy in front of you, while you have archers or granaders in unreachable place behind you, not to mention all around you. Plus, try to play with outflanked in Swamplands, the very fractal that is designed to outflank you and everyone in your party.

Ever heard of AoE damage? Dunno, had 0 problems with those mobs running around. They didn't even reach us to land any attack at all.

[Pirindolo.9427]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Nice words. Now just record a video showing us how to do that in swampland or Molten Boss.

@Aeon.4583 said:You can't properly position youself, fighting with enemy in front of you, while you have archers or granaders in unreachable place behind you, not to mention all around you. Plus, try to play with outflanked in Swamplands, the very fractal that is designed to outflank you and everyone in your party.

Ever heard of AoE damage? Dunno, had 0 problems with those mobs running around. They didn't even reach us to land any attack at all.

Well, we all know now that you are not affected by instabilities, whatever the combo and whatever the fractal. Congratulations.The rest of us will keep talking about them, if you don't mind.