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Core healing skills are bad

Tayga.3192

By Tayga.3192
in Mesmer

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Tayga.3192

Tayga.3192

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All of the core heals on mesmer are bad.Mirror heal is a freaking joke even if you trait it. 4200 base heal that casts for 1.25s? We have reflect on dodge already.Mantra casting takes 1 year and it's just bad (I guess in pve someone sometimes uses it?)Phantasm signet is good for chronomancer (bunker). It's very underwhelming on core/mirage. Recharge reducing part was deleted from the trait and moved to inspiration. In my opinion it should be 50% recharge only on chrono and 100% on core/mirage.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending vs https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_FeastLet's compare these two heals.Mending (Warrior) - 6500 base, removes 3 condis, 15 seconds base cd, traited 12s cd and 20% damage buff, have category of physical skill that can get reduced recharge and benefits from the trait. Was buffed many times.Ether feast (Mesmer) - 5600 base healing, no bonus effects (only a bit more heal per illusion,unreliable and weak), no category, can't be reduced by any trait. Outdated heal without being buffed ever. This heal does absolutely nothing while other heals have additional effects: They remove conditions, extra heal for allies etc. This one... is a joke.This make me wonder what the kitten?Glamour trait doesn't exist anymore, it was removed entirely, why? Why did we lose all glamour traits? Why not delete auto proc of phantasmal defender instead?Why is the mantra trait so bad that it's not worth using?

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LaGranse.8652

LaGranse.8652

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@Odik.4587 said:

@LaGranse.8652 said:Mirror is not too bad, I use it on my mesmer in WvW. Timed right the reflect will prevent more damage than many healskills heal for.You alrdy get perma reflect thanks to mirage+food+evasive mirror ? No brain evade spamming with no investment ez shut down all projectile builds

I don't run evasive mirror but the blind on shatter trait so the reflect is worth it for me. Just because your build has evade spam perma reflect does not mean mine does.

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Me Games Ma.8426

Me Games Ma.8426

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I actually don't think all core heals are bad.HP/s is the value of HP that you get per second if you use this skill on cooldown. (Base Heal on 0 Healing Power / Without Quickness or Alacrity)

Mirror:

  • Untraited HP/s = 264.55
  • Traited HP/s = 324.45
  • If untraited the 2s reflect barely cover the long cast time, it is still very easy to interrupt and the reflect provided is minor. Traited it has similar issues but the sheer amount of reflect uptime is strong and can be very helpful for many builds.
  • Possible Improvements: Reduce Cast Time, slightly increase Healing

Ether Feast

  • Untraited HP/s = 264.76/295.23/325.71/356.19
  • Traited HP/s = TRIGGERED
  • Solid base healing but doesn't have any interesting effect, lackluster skill in terms of utility!
  • Possible Improvements: Add additional "per clone" effects like: cleanse/dps increase/cooldown reduction/... so it scales very well in illusion heavy builds. ((Probably make it shatter illusions and into a shatter?!))

Mantra of RecoveryValues are: 2 Stacks HP>50% / 1 Stack HP>50% / 2 Stacks HP<50%

  • Untraited HP/s = 460/528.77/597.54
  • Traited HP/s = 575.09/643.86/712.63
  • Best HP/s skill on mesmer, by far. (Probably in the game?) Problems are Long cast time and Mantra bug. Channel doesn't count as heal skill for rune/trait effects. Also was forgotten to make 2.25s cast underwater! :open_mouth:
  • Possible Improvements: Fix Mantra Bug, fix underwater cast time. Fix channel to be a "Heal" for "on heal use triggers".

Signet of the EtherPassive heal not calculated, depends too much on the build.

  • Untraited HP/s = 179.35
  • Traited HP/s = 212.90
  • Probably the worst heal in terms of healing, extreme offensive capabilities make it super strong in PvE, never used it after the 50% nerf in PvP/WvW so I can't say how strong it is there but I would think it's bad.
  • Possible Improvements: PvE don't it's meta in every dps build already. PvP/WvW: Improve healing to make up for the CDR loss.
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Jimbru.6014

Jimbru.6014

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On my staff mirage, I use Mirror for the short cooldown and extra Chaos Storms. Otherwise, I'm usually using Signet of the Ether. Ether Feast is only worthwhile if you're running some kind of clone spam build.

Part of why mesmer heals aren't overwhelming, is the same reason why guardian self-heals outright suck: because one of the basic ideas behind the class is that you shouldn't be taking damage in the first place. Which as we all know, thanks to ANet's contrarian game design, it doesn't work out that way in reality. "This is supposed to be an action MMO where you avoid damage. So let's cover the entire room with overlapping one-shot AOE that has only a split second of warning time!"

Speaking of guardians, mantras suck on all classes that have them, and should be removed or turned into regular skills that actually work when you need them. Not requiring an extra cast and setup time however many seconds later.

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Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

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PVP:Signet of Ether is good for chrono.Mantra seems good on paper but too high cast-time and clunky, plus the mantra trait is bad (especially compared to cleanse on phantasm summon).Mirror is interesting but usually low cast-time is king in pvp. Could be good with 1 sec cast-time (down from 1.25), maybe slightly larger heal.Ether Feast has very strong healing and shouldn't need buffs, problem is that Well of Eternity also has good healing plus condi cleanse plus synergy with cont. split. and Oasis also has very good healing plus vigor plus mirage mirror. Maybe give 1-3 cleanses on it due to powercreep, but on the other hand it would be better to tone down condis and other sources of cleanse instead.

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storm.3120

storm.3120

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@"Quadox.7834" said:Mostly agree but looking at them from perspective of using them on core .Signet is underwhelming on core and nowhere near at clone producing as mirge/chrono with chronophantasma .Wait, you say EF must be bad because mirage heal is good and WoE has synergy with Cont.split ? Are you serious ?P.S https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring is better than WoE (At least as I see it better than WoE * )

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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

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I don't see why they need to be comparable to other good heals. Frankly, if you need to heal as often on a Mesmer as you do other classes, you don't sound like you are playing well. I would venture a guess that the devs have designed this class so that healing isn't as significant a defensive mechanism as it is with other classes.

Not sure what context the OP is thinking, but my mesmer (a variation on the OW Domination build) doesn't heal much at all, and you should see the things it can do in PVE. At least in PVE, the heal issue is not significant. Based on experience in competitive game modes, it's not the heal that is going to save you anyways.

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Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Quadox.7834" said:Mostly agree but looking at them from perspective of using them on core .Signet is underwhelming on core and nowhere near at clone producing as mirge/chrono with chronophantasma .Wait, you say EF must be bad because mirage heal is good and WoE has synergy with Cont.split ? Are you serious ?P.S
is better than WoE (At least as I see it better than WoE * )

No, I said that ether feast is already good, but bad compared to woe and oasis. To make it good again it needs to be powercrept along with the rest of the game but I would personally rather see powercreep reduced game-wide instead of further buffs (Anet are more likely to buff ether feast than tone down powercreep sadly).

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storm.3120

storm.3120

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Mostly agree but looking at them from perspective of using them on core .Signet is underwhelming on core and nowhere near at clone producing as mirge/chrono with chronophantasma .Wait, you say EF must be bad because mirage heal is good and WoE has synergy with Cont.split ? Are you serious ?P.S
is better than WoE (At least as I see it better than WoE * )

No, I said that ether feast is already good, but bad compared to woe and oasis. To make it good again it needs to be powercrept along with the rest of the game but I would personally rather see powercreep reduced game-wide instead of further buffs (Anet are more likely to buff ether feast than tone down powercreep sadly).

Like look at Mending ? Look at withdraw?(Altho its only good heal on thief now lol,core ofc, elite spec heals are good) Those were buffed a lot . Core guardian shelter...best heal is not the best anymore xDMending was buffed bajilion times still they prefer to never press 6 on skill bar etc. While playing core ...Idk... all heals feel ultra bad.This guy claiming mantra be best heal in the game...probably never tried to use it in pvp ? Also healing turret is best heal in the game still imo

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Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Mostly agree but looking at them from perspective of using them on core .Signet is underwhelming on core and nowhere near at clone producing as mirge/chrono with chronophantasma .Wait, you say EF must be bad because mirage heal is good and WoE has synergy with Cont.split ? Are you serious ?P.S
is better than WoE (At least as I see it better than WoE * )

No, I said that ether feast is already good, but bad compared to woe and oasis. To make it good again it needs to be powercrept along with the rest of the game but I would personally rather see powercreep reduced game-wide instead of further buffs (Anet are more likely to buff ether feast than tone down powercreep sadly).

Like look at Mending ? Look at withdraw?(Altho its only good heal on thief now lol,core ofc, elite spec heals are good) Those were buffed a lot . Core guardian shelter...best heal is not the best anymore xDMending was buffed bajilion times still they prefer to never press 6 on skill bar etc. While playing core ...Idk... all heals feel ultra bad.This guy claiming mantra be best heal in the game...probably never tried to use it in pvp ? Also healing turret is best heal in the game still imo

Would prefer to nerf all those but sure if nerfing op heals like withdraw is impossible then fine by me buff ether feast and make it remove 20 condis for all i care.EDIT: All Mesmer condi remove is currently stacked in inspiration traitline so I think giving condition removal to ether feast would be a good change.

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Simonoly.4352

Simonoly.4352

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Traited Mirror is great fun. The actual heal part barely covers the damage incurred from a glassy auto-attack, but 4 seconds of reflect on a 12 second cooldown is powerful. I really quite like the trade-off involved in taking the heal.

I can certainly see the argument that it's not really worth it untraited.

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