Thief hate

[Jack Redline.5379]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:from other posts of yours, i assume you do not play as one would expect from a thief. do you communicate with your team before the match, what you will do ?

Condi DD Trapper Is alive and kicking more than ever. And IT IS VIABLE. And it DOES do Thieves job Adequatly

Legit Lol'd here.

You Legit wouldn't if I'd meet you in game.

[Jack Redline.5379]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

I agree with you on that but anyway if a thief is bad or lets say acceptable as you have stated it ppl shouldnt roast the hell out of them for not being good enough. Bad thief wouldnt get that high in ranks and would end up in bottom gold.

And that is why if someone has a match they shouldnt put more pressure on a thief who alread knows he is not doing that good or maybe good enouhg. AND 100% nobody should flame thief just because team is loosing. The theif might simply be doing his job maybe not as a GREAT thief would but stil decently and problem might be elsewhere. If someone srsly needs to roast have a look at game a bit and then do it.

Thx for the income Enderz btw It rly is true and i can relate to this.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:from other posts of yours, i assume you do not play as one would expect from a thief. do you communicate with your team before the match, what you will do ?

Condi DD Trapper Is alive and kicking more than ever. And IT IS VIABLE. And it DOES do Thieves job Adequatly

Legit Lol'd here.

But it might if he is satisfied and enjoying himself in a Rank he feels comfortable in.Fair enough?Is he trying to get to or playing plat 3/Legendary?

[DeceiverX.8361]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:from other posts of yours, i assume you do not play as one would expect from a thief. do you communicate with your team before the match, what you will do ?

Condi DD Trapper Is alive and kicking more than ever. And IT IS VIABLE. And it DOES do Thieves job Adequatly

Legit Lol'd here.

But it might if he is satisfied and enjoying himself in a Rank he feels comfortable in.Fair enough?Is he trying to get to or playing plat 3/Legendary?

Pretty sure he's trying to fight for R1 since he literally proclaims Sind cannot beat him in a duel.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

I agree with you on that but anyway if a thief is bad or lets say acceptable as you have stated it ppl shouldnt roast the hell out of them for not being good enough. Bad thief wouldnt get that high in ranks and would end up in bottom gold.

And that is why if someone has a match they shouldnt put more pressure on a thief who alread knows he is not doing that good or maybe good enouhg. AND 100% nobody should flame thief just because team is loosing. The theif might simply be doing his job maybe not as a GREAT thief would but stil decently and problem might be elsewhere. If someone srsly needs to roast have a look at game a bit and then do it.

Thx for the income Enderz btw It rly is true and i can relate to this.

I don't flame thieves. But I don't really flame anyone.I play somewhere in low gold/sometimes silver and I've got up to plat when I care/tryhard. But I really don't care anymore.I don't like losing. But I play Core and SB Ranger for fun.I don't care if someone thinks I'm good.Anyone who calls another player trash isn't that great anyways.The best players I've seen don't do that, don't take themselves too seriously and are actually humble.Well all for that mouthy mesmer we all love and hate...who shall not be named.

I started playing MMO's when you were all kiddos.I like it when someone calls me kidI tell them I have kidsI ask them their ageand surprise surprise, they haven't once told me.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@"MUDse.7623" said:from other posts of yours, i assume you do not play as one would expect from a thief. do you communicate with your team before the match, what you will do ?

Condi DD Trapper Is alive and kicking more than ever. And IT IS VIABLE. And it DOES do Thieves job Adequatly

Legit Lol'd here.

But it might if he is satisfied and enjoying himself in a Rank he feels comfortable in.Fair enough?Is he trying to get to or playing plat 3/Legendary?

Pretty sure he's trying to fight for R1 since he literally proclaims Sind cannot beat him in a duel.

Well, lol , about that detail, Ill shut up now.

Just between you and me, I never really got the whole 'dueling' thing about PvP.Look at any other Team sport, there are no duels between players that are good at different positions.Tom Brady vs a Defensive Lineman?I had someone say to me just last night, "you aint $**T when you aren't ganking."But we won a team game...

Half of the spirit of his post, I can agree with.It's hardly ever I see someone give fair criticism in a non salty way.It's always something like "Why are you guys so baaaaad?""You're Trash!"

And yeah, sorry, didn't mean to derail that post.I guess it's a topic that bugs me too, from time to time.The $**T talkers are the loud minority.

[Nepster.4275]

Thief is too OP if a team is losing its the thief´s fault because he/she cant carry hard enough...(see the sarcasm pleb...)

[Arkantos.7460]

a thief dont die , decap, assist in teamfights .... to much for many ppl

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@incisorr.9502 said:You realize thief is the only class in guild wars 2 that has been meta since 2012?

Thief is overpowered in conquest. It doesn't matter if it dies 1v1 to dragon hunter or whatever, the game isn't about 1v1 or about kills and what thief can do is overpowered for conquest. Idiotic mobility (no cooldown blinks btw) paired with the best ganking too in the game (steal) in a game where ganking people who are fighting someone else and then snowballing in a 5v4 is the best strategy.

anyone complaining about thief is in the right , automatically

Haha some thief must have stomped this cry baby hard,good! Thief is far from op and can’t even stand 1v1 vs most classes without being at a disadvantage. A good thief uses its strength being mobility to decal and +1,soulbeast and mesmers arnt that much slower but can also 1v1 so thieves keep the decap +1 role as they should be good at somthing. Ur post sounds like a complete I hate thief post lol grow up!

[tacoclaw.8251]

Sometimes when a thief seems to be going rogue and and starts dueling at mid, it's because he know his team is helpless and hopeless. BTW, for those who don't play thief, it sucks running form near to far over and over. Sometimes when all is lost your just want to mix it up.

[Sindrener.1592]

@incisorr.9502 said:You realize thief is the only class in guild wars 2 that has been meta since 2012?

Thief is overpowered in conquest. It doesn't matter if it dies 1v1 to dragon hunter or whatever, the game isn't about 1v1 or about kills and what thief can do is overpowered for conquest. Idiotic mobility (no cooldown blinks btw) paired with the best ganking too in the game (steal) in a game where ganking people who are fighting someone else and then snowballing in a 5v4 is the best strategy.

anyone complaining about thief is in the right , automatically

L m a o.

I think you mistake mesmer for always being meta since 2012.

Just before you reply with some nonsense as always. Almost 90% of HoT expansion thief was incredibly strong, however legit all other classes were broken beyond belief. Thief couldnt +1 anything, not even in ranked.

Then we look at mesmer which has been meta from beginning and still is.

Now youll reply but mesmer isnt played in tourneys!!! No because not one topteam is scrimming or sticking together to evaluate other comps than fb scourge, if id have the players id legit play like 3 mirage/thief/Chrono.

We almost lost to Zan's team which was slb/chrono/mirage/core guard/holo - if they would swap out their core guard (who they are carrying for money) to another class - like another mirage i'm 100% certain they'd beat us, or hell why not just another chrono even.

Game was 500-490~ and we had capricorn which was a good map for us

[dominik.9721]

@bluri.2653 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:You realize thief is the only class in guild wars 2 that has been meta since 2012?

Thief is overpowered in conquest. It doesn't matter if it dies 1v1 to dragon hunter or whatever, the game isn't about 1v1 or about kills and what thief can do is overpowered for conquest. Idiotic mobility (no cooldown blinks btw) paired with the best ganking too in the game (steal) in a game where ganking people who are fighting someone else and then snowballing in a 5v4 is the best strategy.

anyone complaining about thief is in the right , automatically

L m a o.

I think you mistake mesmer for always being meta since 2012.

Just before you reply with some nonsense as always. Almost 90% of HoT expansion thief was incredibly strong, however legit all other classes were broken beyond belief. Thief couldnt +1 anything, not even in ranked.

Then we look at mesmer which has been meta from beginning and still is.

Now youll reply but mesmer isnt played in tourneys!!! No because not one topteam is scrimming or sticking together to evaluate other comps than fb scourge, if id have the players id legit play like 3 mirage/thief/Chrono.

We almost lost to Zan's team which was slb/chrono/mirage/core guard/holo - if they would swap out their core guard (who they are carrying for money) to another class - like another mirage i'm 100% certain they'd beat us, or hell why not just another chrono even.

Game was 500-490~ and we had capricorn which was a good map for us

Why would you want to swap a core guard to a mirage, when in fact mirage is just a cyberbullied class that alrdy is not good, whereas core guard is completly broken and is able to port through walls?

Probably just because capricorn got no walls

[incisorr.9502]

@bluri.2653 said:

@"incisorr.9502" said:You realize thief is the only class in guild wars 2 that has been meta since 2012?

Thief is overpowered in conquest. It doesn't matter if it dies 1v1 to dragon hunter or whatever, the game isn't about 1v1 or about kills and what thief can do is overpowered for conquest. Idiotic mobility (no cooldown blinks btw) paired with the best ganking too in the game (steal) in a game where ganking people who are fighting someone else and then snowballing in a 5v4 is the best strategy.

anyone complaining about thief is in the right , automatically

L m a o.

I think you mistake mesmer for always being meta since 2012.

Just before you reply with some nonsense as always. Almost 90% of HoT expansion thief was incredibly strong, however legit all other classes were broken beyond belief. Thief couldnt +1 anything, not even in ranked.

Then we look at mesmer which has been meta from beginning and still is.

Now youll reply but mesmer isnt played in tourneys!!! No because not one topteam is scrimming or sticking together to evaluate other comps than fb scourge, if id have the players id legit play like 3 mirage/thief/Chrono.

We almost lost to Zan's team which was slb/chrono/mirage/core guard/holo - if they would swap out their core guard (who they are carrying for money) to another class - like another mirage i'm 100% certain they'd beat us, or hell why not just another chrono even.

Game was 500-490~ and we had capricorn which was a good map for us

Twisting the facts to protect your class doesn't give you any favor. Anyone whos actually played gw2 from the start knows that what i wrote is true. Since metabattle went up the class hasn't been removed from top of the charts either and there's a reason for that. I don't really care about mesmer because i only started playing the class when mirage came out and i only like mirage, mesmer itself is irrelevant to me. It wasn't meta since the game came out, it was a mediocre class for most of the time and even when hot came out mesmer was still bad except some patches in which chrono got busted. I would know because i played other classes back then (warrior and ele for the most part) and i never had any issues with mesmer except the GENERAL GW2 ISSUE THAT I HAVE which is full glass cannon power builds which reduce the skill requirement and make the game a 50-50 dice roll, and the old meta was a mesmer+thief roaming and not just mesmer.

yes i'll reply mesmer isn't played in tourneys and there's a reason for that, mesmer is garbage. If you had the choice to play 3 mirage/thief/chrono you'd lose because there aren't 3 good mirage players on the server. I can 1v2 almost all mirages in gw2 at the same time and have done so many times in game only due to how bad they are and before they blatantly copied 90% of my build it was even more one-sided because before i started playing this game more actively the mesmer meta was completely different and by some coincidence chance my build happened to hard-counter mesmers (it wasn't intended since my build was made for team-fights but happens to be able to 1v1 cus that was my secondary focus) which made them change their builds after

and then for zan's team, as if 1 person makes that big of a difference in a game with TEN people. If you swapped out any of the non-mesmer classes with a worse player and suddenly the game would go completely the other way around. And core guard? Core guard is broken and it's cheesy but it's not a viable/ good class. It has limited potential but it's also lower risk and easy to play, it can find a room in a competitive team but it's role is very specific and it's basically a thief/revenant with more sustain and staying power but worse mobility, it's the same role/class but with different strengths which are more situational. The class itself is op cus its over-statted but having a person on core guard means you're just having someone insecure in playing something more impactful. Mirage on the other hand isn't like this, mirage is a properly designed class which rewards effort if you don't play the defensive build and you should have more classes like this and not less, because this is healthy design. Rewarding and promoting player skill and difference is what the game should aim to be and there are very few classes that do this. Even thief for all it's "difficulty " is incredibly easy to play in comparison to mirage but the skill thief requires is general gw2 skill and knowledge and knowing where and when to fight, which is a skill on itself , but the class itself is very easy mechanically in comparison to a more offensive and dps mirage build which has to consider and play with illusions, stamina , limited defense and proper dps spread because condition dps is easier to deal with and you can't just mash buttons and get damage with it and you have to pressure people else they won't die out

I play mirage and i know all about mirage, unlike people that don't play mirage and talk against mirage. Mirage isn't as mighty as this forum keeps trying to make it sound and it's play-rate and win-rates speak to that. It's not winning tournaments and it's not placing high in soloq either // on average // when compared to other classes. Top 10-20 is almost always full of holo,slb,thief, revenant.I've mentioned 100 times that mirage has 2 builds, more defensive and more offensive one. You can't clump up both of them together because there's a huge difference between them. Sage amulet for example pretty much increases your healing by 50% which is ridiculous and it, combined with chaos and near permanent protection from chaos, increases your survivability by a lot but at the same time if you fight someone with ok sustain but way more dps than you - you just lose, you also have lower impact on team fights or skirmishes. Non-sage amulet without chaos makes you squishy and your defense relies on actively protecting yourself which is player based and it should be rewarded and it 's not as easy as people think cause mirage has the lowest vigor uptime in the game besides maybe guard which doesn't have any (minus from condi to boon conversion which ironically might even give it the same time of vigor as mirage cus of all the vigor nerfs mirage has) and you don't have any more dodges as mirage than other classes do but you need dodge for offense and defense, which makes it harder to use.

but this thread is about thief, i don't think it's wise to argue against facts and facts are that thief is the only class in gw2 that has been meta since release. Back in pre-hot days i played a warrior and i never lost 1v1 (ever, against anyone, not even 1 round out of 10+, as long as i had cooldowns and hp when the fight started) except occasionally some of the better thieves , which could be un-hittable, how about that. Isn't it ironic when people mention mirage has a lot of dodges when it has two dodges with limited vigor and then there's thief with multiple weapon dodges with no cd and 10 times more stamina. Xd

and i wanna address one last thing, you say that if you had the option you would play with a lot of mirages and i can somewhat agree to this but my reasons are different. (im only talking about todays meta and not 1 year ago btw, with all the nerfs already in place. I agree mirage was broken before vigor nerfs which are more than half a year old by now) Mirage is rewarding class but it isn't faceroll against better players with viable builds. That's how all classes should be because that's how you make a good game but mirage is also hard if you want it to be rewarding and that's why you can't make a full team of mirages because there's simply not enough good mirage players left. And if you're using mirage or chrono to bunk then you can just get soulbeast cause it's better against more matchups. Chrono dies to condi much easier than slb and mirage bunker isn't as good as other classes played on the same level

[dominik.9721]

@incisorr.9502 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:You realize thief is the only class in guild wars 2 that has been meta since 2012?

Thief is overpowered in conquest. It doesn't matter if it dies 1v1 to dragon hunter or whatever, the game isn't about 1v1 or about kills and what thief can do is overpowered for conquest. Idiotic mobility (no cooldown blinks btw) paired with the best ganking too in the game (steal) in a game where ganking people who are fighting someone else and then snowballing in a 5v4 is the best strategy.

anyone complaining about thief is in the right , automatically

L m a o.

I think you mistake mesmer for always being meta since 2012.

Just before you reply with some nonsense as always. Almost 90% of HoT expansion thief was incredibly strong, however legit all other classes were broken beyond belief. Thief couldnt +1 anything, not even in ranked.

Then we look at mesmer which has been meta from beginning and still is.

Now youll reply but mesmer isnt played in tourneys!!! No because not one topteam is scrimming or sticking together to evaluate other comps than fb scourge, if id have the players id legit play like 3 mirage/thief/Chrono.

We almost lost to Zan's team which was slb/chrono/mirage/core guard/holo - if they would swap out their core guard (who they are carrying for money) to another class - like another mirage i'm 100% certain they'd beat us, or hell why not just another chrono even.

Game was 500-490~ and we had capricorn which was a good map for us

Twisting the facts to protect your class doesn't give you any favor. Anyone whos actually played gw2 from the start knows that what i wrote is true. Since metabattle went up the class hasn't been removed from top of the charts either and there's a reason for that. I don't really care about mesmer because i only started playing the class when mirage came out and i only like mirage, mesmer itself is irrelevant to me. It wasn't meta since the game came out, it was a mediocre class for most of the time and even when hot came out mesmer was still bad except some patches in which chrono got busted. I would know because i played other classes back then (warrior and ele for the most part) and i never had any issues with mesmer except the GENERAL GW2 ISSUE THAT I HAVE which is full glass cannon power builds which reduce the skill requirement and make the game a 50-50 dice roll, and the old meta was a mesmer+thief roaming and not just mesmer.

yes i'll reply mesmer isn't played in tourneys and there's a reason for that, mesmer is garbage. If you had the choice to play 3 mirage/thief/chrono you'd lose because there aren't 3 good mirage players on the server. I can 1v2 almost all mirages in gw2 at the same time and have done so many times in game only due to how bad they are and before they blatantly copied 90% of my build it was even more one-sided because before i started playing this game more actively the mesmer meta was completely different and by some coincidence chance my build happened to hard-counter mesmers (it wasn't intended since my build was made for team-fights but happens to be able to 1v1 cus that was my secondary focus) which made them change their builds after

and then for zan's team, as if 1 person makes that big of a difference in a game with TEN people. If you swapped out any of the non-mesmer classes with a worse player and suddenly the game would go completely the other way around. And core guard? Core guard is broken and it's cheesy but it's not a viable/ good class. It has limited potential but it's also lower risk and easy to play, it can find a room in a competitive team but it's role is very specific and it's basically a thief/revenant with more sustain and staying power but worse mobility, it's the same role/class but with different strengths which are more situational. The class itself is op cus its over-statted but having a person on core guard means you're just having someone insecure in playing something more impactful. Mirage on the other hand isn't like this, mirage is a properly designed class which rewards effort if you don't play the defensive build and you should have more classes like this and not less, because this is healthy design. Rewarding and promoting player skill and difference is what the game should aim to be and there are very few classes that do this. Even thief for all it's "difficulty " is incredibly easy to play in comparison to mirage but the skill thief requires is general gw2 skill and knowledge and knowing where and when to fight, which is a skill on itself , but the class itself is very easy mechanically in comparison to a more offensive and dps mirage build which has to consider and play with illusions, stamina , limited defense and proper dps spread because condition dps is easier to deal with and you can't just mash buttons and get damage with it and you have to pressure people else they won't die out

I play mirage and i know all about mirage, unlike people that don't play mirage and talk against mirage. Mirage isn't as mighty as this forum keeps trying to make it sound and it's play-rate and win-rates speak to that. It's not winning tournaments and it's not placing high in soloq either // on average // when compared to other classes. Top 10-20 is almost always full of holo,slb,thief, revenant.I've mentioned 100 times that mirage has 2 builds, more defensive and more offensive one. You can't clump up both of them together because there's a huge difference between them. Sage amulet for example pretty much increases your healing by 50% which is ridiculous and it, combined with chaos and near permanent protection from chaos, increases your survivability by a lot but at the same time if you fight someone with ok sustain but way more dps than you - you just lose, you also have lower impact on team fights or skirmishes. Non-sage amulet without chaos makes you squishy and your defense relies on actively protecting yourself which is player based and it should be rewarded and it 's not as easy as people think cause mirage has the lowest vigor uptime in the game besides maybe guard which doesn't have any (minus from condi to boon conversion which ironically might even give it the same time of vigor as mirage cus of all the vigor nerfs mirage has) and you don't have any more dodges as mirage than other classes do but you need dodge for offense and defense, which makes it harder to use.

but this thread is about thief, i don't think it's wise to argue against facts and facts are that thief is the only class in gw2 that has been meta since release. Back in pre-hot days i played a warrior and i never lost 1v1 (ever, against anyone, not even 1 round out of 10+, as long as i had cooldowns and hp when the fight started) except occasionally some of the better thieves , which could be un-hittable, how about that. Isn't it ironic when people mention mirage has a lot of dodges when it has two dodges with limited vigor and then there's thief with multiple weapon dodges with no cd and 10 times more stamina. Xd

and i wanna address one last thing, you say that if you had the option you would play with a lot of mirages and i can somewhat agree to this but my reasons are different. (im only talking about todays meta and not 1 year ago btw, with all the nerfs already in place. I agree mirage was broken before vigor nerfs which are more than half a year old by now) Mirage is rewarding class but it isn't faceroll against better players with viable builds. That's how all classes should be because that's how you make a good game but mirage is also hard if you want it to be rewarding and that's why you can't make a full team of mirages because there's simply not enough good mirage players left. And if you're using mirage or chrono to bunk then you can just get soulbeast cause it's better against more matchups. Chrono dies to condi much easier than slb and mirage bunker isn't as good as other classes played on the same level

are you actually unemployed irl to find so much time to type these wall of textes and to play 600 games each season while still being worse than average on a class that is not mirage?

[Sindrener.1592]

@incisorr.9502 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:You realize thief is the only class in guild wars 2 that has been meta since 2012?

Thief is overpowered in conquest. It doesn't matter if it dies 1v1 to dragon hunter or whatever, the game isn't about 1v1 or about kills and what thief can do is overpowered for conquest. Idiotic mobility (no cooldown blinks btw) paired with the best ganking too in the game (steal) in a game where ganking people who are fighting someone else and then snowballing in a 5v4 is the best strategy.

anyone complaining about thief is in the right , automatically

L m a o.

I think you mistake mesmer for always being meta since 2012.

Just before you reply with some nonsense as always. Almost 90% of HoT expansion thief was incredibly strong, however legit all other classes were broken beyond belief. Thief couldnt +1 anything, not even in ranked.

Then we look at mesmer which has been meta from beginning and still is.

Now youll reply but mesmer isnt played in tourneys!!! No because not one topteam is scrimming or sticking together to evaluate other comps than fb scourge, if id have the players id legit play like 3 mirage/thief/Chrono.

We almost lost to Zan's team which was slb/chrono/mirage/core guard/holo - if they would swap out their core guard (who they are carrying for money) to another class - like another mirage i'm 100% certain they'd beat us, or hell why not just another chrono even.

Game was 500-490~ and we had capricorn which was a good map for us

Twisting the facts to protect your class doesn't give you any favor. Anyone whos actually played gw2 from the start knows that what i wrote is true. Since metabattle went up the class hasn't been removed from top of the charts either and there's a reason for that. I don't really care about mesmer because i only started playing the class when mirage came out and i only like mirage, mesmer itself is irrelevant to me. It wasn't meta since the game came out, it was a mediocre class for most of the time and even when hot came out mesmer was still bad except some patches in which chrono got busted. I would know because i played other classes back then (warrior and ele for the most part) and i never had any issues with mesmer except the GENERAL GW2 ISSUE THAT I HAVE which is full glass cannon power builds which reduce the skill requirement and make the game a 50-50 dice roll, and the old meta was a mesmer+thief roaming and not just mesmer.

yes i'll reply mesmer isn't played in tourneys and there's a reason for that, mesmer is garbage. If you had the choice to play 3 mirage/thief/chrono you'd lose because there aren't 3 good mirage players on the server. I can 1v2 almost all mirages in gw2 at the same time and have done so many times in game only due to how bad they are and before they blatantly copied 90% of my build it was even more one-sided because before i started playing this game more actively the mesmer meta was completely different and by some coincidence chance my build happened to hard-counter mesmers (it wasn't intended since my build was made for team-fights but happens to be able to 1v1 cus that was my secondary focus) which made them change their builds after

and then for zan's team, as if 1 person makes that big of a difference in a game with TEN people. If you swapped out any of the non-mesmer classes with a worse player and suddenly the game would go completely the other way around. And core guard? Core guard is broken and it's cheesy but it's not a viable/ good class. It has limited potential but it's also lower risk and easy to play, it can find a room in a competitive team but it's role is very specific and it's basically a thief/revenant with more sustain and staying power but worse mobility, it's the same role/class but with different strengths which are more situational. The class itself is op cus its over-statted but having a person on core guard means you're just having someone insecure in playing something more impactful. Mirage on the other hand isn't like this, mirage is a properly designed class which rewards effort if you don't play the defensive build and you should have more classes like this and not less, because this is healthy design. Rewarding and promoting player skill and difference is what the game should aim to be and there are very few classes that do this. Even thief for all it's "difficulty " is incredibly easy to play in comparison to mirage but the skill thief requires is general gw2 skill and knowledge and knowing where and when to fight, which is a skill on itself , but the class itself is very easy mechanically in comparison to a more offensive and dps mirage build which has to consider and play with illusions, stamina , limited defense and proper dps spread because condition dps is easier to deal with and you can't just mash buttons and get damage with it and you have to pressure people else they won't die out

I play mirage and i know all about mirage, unlike people that don't play mirage and talk against mirage. Mirage isn't as mighty as this forum keeps trying to make it sound and it's play-rate and win-rates speak to that. It's not winning tournaments and it's not placing high in soloq either // on average // when compared to other classes. Top 10-20 is almost always full of holo,slb,thief, revenant.I've mentioned 100 times that mirage has 2 builds, more defensive and more offensive one. You can't clump up both of them together because there's a huge difference between them. Sage amulet for example pretty much increases your healing by 50% which is ridiculous and it, combined with chaos and near permanent protection from chaos, increases your survivability by a lot but at the same time if you fight someone with ok sustain but way more dps than you - you just lose, you also have lower impact on team fights or skirmishes. Non-sage amulet without chaos makes you squishy and your defense relies on actively protecting yourself which is player based and it should be rewarded and it 's not as easy as people think cause mirage has the lowest vigor uptime in the game besides maybe guard which doesn't have any (minus from condi to boon conversion which ironically might even give it the same time of vigor as mirage cus of all the vigor nerfs mirage has) and you don't have any more dodges as mirage than other classes do but you need dodge for offense and defense, which makes it harder to use.

but this thread is about thief, i don't think it's wise to argue against facts and facts are that thief is the only class in gw2 that has been meta since release. Back in pre-hot days i played a warrior and i never lost 1v1 (ever, against anyone, not even 1 round out of 10+, as long as i had cooldowns and hp when the fight started) except occasionally some of the better thieves , which could be un-hittable, how about that. Isn't it ironic when people mention mirage has a lot of dodges when it has two dodges with limited vigor and then there's thief with multiple weapon dodges with no cd and 10 times more stamina. Xd

and i wanna address one last thing, you say that if you had the option you would play with a lot of mirages and i can somewhat agree to this but my reasons are different. (im only talking about todays meta and not 1 year ago btw, with all the nerfs already in place. I agree mirage was broken before vigor nerfs which are more than half a year old by now) Mirage is rewarding class but it isn't faceroll against better players with viable builds. That's how all classes should be because that's how you make a good game but mirage is also hard if you want it to be rewarding and that's why you can't make a full team of mirages because there's simply not enough good mirage players left. And if you're using mirage or chrono to bunk then you can just get soulbeast cause it's better against more matchups. Chrono dies to condi much easier than slb and mirage bunker isn't as good as other classes played on the same level

So much delusional talk in your posts i feel almost bad for you. Do you want me to link all pro leauge including esl cups of whole HoT and you will see 0 thieves in every game. The only time thief saw gameplay was near end of HoT after they kept on nerfing pretty much everything including the reason thief didnt see play (rev) you do know majority of HoT mesmer was KEY 100% in every comp. And it pretty much was through whole vanilla as well due to portal

HoTBunker mesmer people ran 2 of them per comp. Then after class stacking got removed, guess what got played? Chrono condi, and it was mandatory due to the 1v1 potential including portal and csplit moa in teamfights

You have never competed or been a top player so you shouting out stuff like teef op always been, every single player with 10 braincells laughs at you, the fact remains that you are probably one of few who thinks mesmer isnt overpowered lmao.

Just to rub some stuff in your eye, me and zan talking about scourge/fb not being optimal compand that i legit would want to run 4x MIRAGE CUS ITS BROKEN????????????

https://imgur.com/a/Gf465r3

the MAT final where 2x mirage/chrono almost won the mAT, and as i said if it wasnt for them BOOSTING helm for $$ (he is not good and hes paying them to get boosted) and the thief team almost loses, hmmm but isnt teef OP? What did teef do the whole game??? Count how many decaps/kills/caps the thief got vs how many kills mirages got :) ontop of that, you could legit have replaced the core guard with another mirage that is decent and legit destroyed the finals.

Frostball when he is serious, drazeh and kaazer all 3 incredibly good mirages and im 100% sure 3 of them would farm you all over if they spent time on the game again

Just to showcase pro leauge for you and you count how many thieves you see and get back to me, and then you count how many mesmers

HELL EVEN I PLAYED MESMER OVER THIEF EVEN THO I CANT PLAY ANYTHING ELSE??????????

worlds, more or less "end" of HoT tournaments

Another pro leauge match, where i play SURPRISE SCRAPPER but wasnt THIEF OP AND ALWAYS META?

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Lol he still thinks the game has a competitive side. Dont break it for him that's all he lives for in life. ?

[Burnfall.9573]

@"Jack Redline.5379" said:Why always if a team is loosing ppl start salting thief? Thief is doing the best god kitten job he is able to do and you start salting him for not being able to do enough? What if he did enough and his teammates were simply bad? Thief is not the cause of the lost match. The cooperation of the team is. Thief is only as good as his team is it is not a class that can carry a whole team to victory. Stop hating on Thieves if the team is loosing kitten it

I am sorry to say this; it is Anet whose to be solely blamed for thief hate. For the past 6 years; the vast community has begged Anet to address thief toxicity and Anet intentionally ignored their plead-they increased Thief toxicity even more ---almost every professions now can 1 shot

It is not the thief player to be hated but Anet design for thief to be toxic to the balance of the game.

Unfortunately; in the end, everyone suffers. The community; thief players, active players, players who left--who are planning leaving, new players who are on the verge of packing up, including Anet innocent staffs who paid the price harshly---who are going to lose their work-life-dependent jobhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/69585/discussion-thread-arenanet-news-of-21-february-2019-merged#latest

My question to is; in the end, was Thief and non-genuine Mesmer toxic designs worth it??

That is what toxicity does; it spread toxic pollution, it destables, it destroys every healthy elements...... everything in its path including the innocent

Thief design is the root cause of Gw2 destruction and hatred--Non-Genuine-Mesmer was designed as an excuse for Thief design-

(There will be no end to the instability of the of the game including its players, Anet;staffsuntil Thief and Mesmer are completely reworked from the ground up with healthy roots.)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Haha as usual here’s burny coming in with his I hate thief vendetta haha priceless.are u and incissor a couple? :) both of u Post the most delusional stuff it almost seems unreal that u are playing the same game as the rest of us lol I almost am inclined to think that u guys are trolling by how backwards your views are on game balance. Like u guys can’t be this delusional lol are I sure all this time ur clicking on the gw2 icon when u load up ur comp’s? I’d like any regular mesmer player try and stand toe to toe with any class using core or DD and laugh at how they fair with the soposed so op class lol.For the record I look forward to ur almost certain delusional reply,they make my day/) for that I thank u both!

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Jack Redline.5379" said:Why always if a team is loosing ppl start salting thief?

Thief is only as good as his team is it is not a class that can carry a whole team to victory

This is why. Thief is one of the least noticeable players on the field for their own team, if they are doing their job correctly. A thief should only be visible to their team if they are helping win an outnumbered match and then should be immediately gone after that in search of other objectives to harass. The only other place a thief would be visible to their team is if they're dead.

It is easy to blame a thief because when your team has wiped, if you are doing your job as thief you have not died. , so some scrubs will go: "Hm, I wonder why my entire team just wiped at mid to a dragonhunter and scourge. Surely it can't be because we all ran in one at a time and stood in aoe-bomb circles instead of splitting the map/pressing the weak nodes, it has to be because the one guy alive didn't come die with us because he was too busy doing what we were supposed to be doing!"

Don't take it too personal. Just let the hate empower you. People are gonna hate rogue classes whether they are doing well(because stealth is obviously op) or poorly (because trash thieves are more handicapping to a team since they are easier to kill) so don't let it bother you too much.

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

I don't complain about thieves. Maybe I don't see the complaints like thieves do, because I don't play thief.And although I dont play thief, I think I have a good comprehension of what makes a great thief in my maps

With all classes there are levels of play.

The levels as I see them are bad, acceptable, good and Great.

A bad thief will die. (Don't die.)A bad thief will try to solo far. And then die. Bad.A bad thief will go melee in big fights and you guess it, die.A bad thief will stay in a losing fight instead of decapping pointA bad thief wont cap/decap.

Acceptable thief wont dieAcceptable thief will decap.But they dont contribute so much to +1's

A Good thief will-not die.

• will +1 and give pressure and from a Ranger/Sb perspective help vs a 1v2 (to end one)
• A good thief will cap and decap

-Great thievesDon't dieDecap and Cap+1 and pressure and add support dmg to 1v2's to end a target quickly-Will Leave as soon as he thinks you have the fight in hand-Will pressure between points-Can win 1v1's consistently-Know when to leave a losing fight and contribute else where-Know when to leave and sneak back to cap

Side point From someone whose playing against Great thieves, it seems like they are everywhere at all times.Go mid they are there.Go home they are there.Go far, they are pressuring you and slowing you up, softening you up for what you are going to face at farGreat Thieves can add so much support to a thief, they can carry more often than not. (obviously, everyone needs a decent team to do well)

A bit more than 2 centsbut that's my impressionon the quality of thieves you willface and have on your team

Also everything this guy said is spot on.

-Will Leave as soon as he thinks you have the fight in hand

.... [squints, has flashbacks of thief hate for staying until downed individual is dead/stomping them after downed players rez multiple times that match due to people refusing to clean up]

What perfect world do you live in where your team can finish a player after you leave?

[saerni.2584]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Jack Redline.5379" said:Why always if a team is loosing ppl start salting thief?

Thief is only as good as his team is it is not a class that can carry a whole team to victory

This is why. Thief is one of the least noticeable players on the field for their own team, if they are doing their job correctly. A thief should only be visible to their team if they are helping win an outnumbered match and then should be immediately gone after that in search of other objectives to harass. The only other place a thief would be visible to their team is if they're dead.

It is easy to blame a thief because when your team has wiped, if you are doing your job as thief you

have not died.

, so some scrubs will go: "Hm, I wonder why my entire team just wiped at mid to a dragonhunter and scourge. Surely it can't be because we all ran in one at a time and stood in aoe-bomb circles instead of splitting the map/pressing the weak nodes, it has to be because the one guy alive didn't come die with us because he was too busy doing what we were supposed to be doing!"

Don't take it too personal. Just let the hate empower you. People are gonna hate rogue classes whether they are doing well(because stealth is obviously op) or poorly (because trash thieves are more handicapping to a team since they are easier to kill) so don't let it bother you too much.

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

I don't complain about thieves. Maybe I don't see the complaints like thieves do, because I don't play thief.And although I dont play thief, I think I have a good comprehension of what makes a great thief in my maps

With all classes there are levels of play.

The levels as I see them are bad, acceptable, good and Great.

A bad thief will die. (Don't die.)A bad thief will try to solo far. And then die. Bad.A bad thief will go melee in big fights and you guess it, die.A bad thief will stay in a losing fight instead of decapping pointA bad thief wont cap/decap.

Acceptable thief wont dieAcceptable thief will decap.But they dont contribute so much to +1's

A Good thief will-not die.

• will +1 and give pressure and from a Ranger/Sb perspective help vs a 1v2 (to end one)
• A good thief will cap and decap

-Great thievesDon't dieDecap and Cap+1 and pressure and add support dmg to 1v2's to end a target quickly-Will Leave as soon as he thinks you have the fight in hand-Will pressure between points-Can win 1v1's consistently-Know when to leave a losing fight and contribute else where-Know when to leave and sneak back to cap

Side point From someone whose playing against Great thieves, it seems like they are everywhere at all times.Go mid they are there.Go home they are there.Go far, they are pressuring you and slowing you up, softening you up for what you are going to face at farGreat Thieves can add so much support to a thief, they can carry more often than not. (obviously, everyone needs a decent team to do well)

A bit more than 2 centsbut that's my impressionon the quality of thieves you willface and have on your team

Also everything this guy said is spot on.

-Will Leave as soon as he thinks you have the fight in hand

....

[squints, has flashbacks of thief hate for staying until downed individual is dead/stomping them after downed players rez multiple times that match due to people refusing to clean up]

What perfect world do you live in where your team can finish a player after you leave?

When this happens to me I just tell them to stop dying. It’s like, if you are dying constantly don’t blame me for not being able to decap nodes and auto win 1v5.

And another thing. If I plus a fight where my ally goes down as I arrive I expect the enemy to have burned some cooldowns in the process. So when I find out the enemy is fully off cooldowns and I’m effectively in a 1v1 I’m not going to take being blamed for not winning the fight seriously.

More on the general topic. Blame thief is a meme. People will be toxic because they see others doing it and it becomes the accepted reason “why we are losing.” Not personal skill. Not that the other team has a better composition. Not that the other team is on the whole better skilled and made a legitimate comeback. Nope, it’s the thief’s fault the team is losing team fights and rotating improperly.

[rowdy.5107]

lol @people that think condi thief doesn't work.. well looking at the 50+ posts on reddit from people crying about how broken and op it is, says different. Ive got over 3000 matches on my thief alone. Starting as a D/P thief to a S/D thief and now im a D/D thief. When you compare the D/D condi thief vs the others.. there is no comparison. S/D and D/P are both 1 trick ponys. You have 1 burst and that is it. You really cant brawl with anybody and expect to win.. I mean you will win a few fights but your best bet is to run.Condi thief on the other hand can burst (you can insta-pop guards and boonbeasts pretty easy). If you need to fight you have a very very good chance at beating most people on a 1v1 or even a 2v1. you still have the same mobility as any other thief build. And you can either go vitality or straight up tank and still be able to dish out massive damage. You will eat mesmers for breakfast since it is a direct counter to mirage. And if you run into a D/P, S/D or deadeye.. you will insta-pop them more often than not.So if anybody has anything bad about condi thief.. they either 1: have never played one before. 2: died to them and thought they are cheap and OP. or 3: you don't know anything about thief.So pick one.

oh btw.. average damage in a match with a condi thief is usually 400k - 600k. id like to see a D/P or a S/D thief do that :)

[pah.4931]

Thieves are 86% responsible for 98% of losses.

[Jack Redline.5379]

@rowdy.5107 said:lol @people that think condi thief doesn't work.. well looking at the 50+ posts on reddit from people crying about how broken and op it is, says different. Ive got over 3000 matches on my thief alone. Starting as a D/P thief to a S/D thief and now im a D/D thief. When you compare the D/D condi thief vs the others.. there is no comparison. S/D and D/P are both 1 trick ponys. You have 1 burst and that is it. You really cant brawl with anybody and expect to win.. I mean you will win a few fights but your best bet is to run.Condi thief on the other hand can burst (you can insta-pop guards and boonbeasts pretty easy). If you need to fight you have a very very good chance at beating most people on a 1v1 or even a 2v1. you still have the same mobility as any other thief build. And you can either go vitality or straight up tank and still be able to dish out massive damage. You will eat mesmers for breakfast since it is a direct counter to mirage. And if you run into a D/P, S/D or deadeye.. you will insta-pop them more often than not.So if anybody has anything bad about condi thief.. they either 1: have never played one before. 2: died to them and thought they are cheap and OP. or 3: you don't know anything about thief.So pick one.

oh btw.. average damage in a match with a condi thief is usually 400k - 600k. id like to see a D/P or a S/D thief do that :)

https://i.imgur.com/1E7CLOw.jpg

Mah man.I like to see a fellow condi thief in this thread :)And I agree with this Condi thief is actually rly good brawler. That is why i play it. Also Traps are nice niche with condi thief. There are several aspects of it that can be used well for instance i like to use Distracting Daggers for more interrupts. (love myslef some tornment stacks on enemy :D ) As far as mirages go. It is more complicated you need to localize him first or you will burst urself on his clones. but yes majority of matches can be won pretty easy. With exceptions glares at retaliation guard Even bunkers die to it so my friend. Keep stacking them sweet sweet poisions bleeds and tornments on them. ;^) May Lyssa's with you :)

[incisorr.9502]

@bluri.2653 said: So much delusional talk in your posts i feel almost bad for you. Do you want me to link all pro leauge including esl cups of whole HoT and you will see 0 thieves in every game. The only time thief saw gameplay was near end of HoT after they kept on nerfing pretty much everything including the reason thief didnt see play (rev) you do know majority of HoT mesmer was KEY 100% in every comp. And it pretty much was through whole vanilla as well due to portal

calling me delusional is pretty sad, living in denial there. I started gw2 since its beta and i never played gw2 seriously because gw2 doesn't require individual skill. It's a team based game with an objective and the skill bar of this game is pretty low, in general most classes are incredibly easy to play mechanically and EVERYTHING ELSE IS CIRCUMSTANCE/TEAM/BUILD/CLASS. I knew that from the start which is why i never bothered wasting my time with gw2. It's not only about fame it's also about fun, i don't find it fun when I PERSONALLY LOSE due to other people's incompetence or lack of dedication or skill and in gw2 there is no avoiding this - in other games the individual has a lot more influence and the game modes are also a lot more competitive than gw2 which is why i didn't play gw2 .The "esl pro league" stuff is completely irrelevant because its from forever ago, because this game's sample size is incredibly small and you have sample bias when you scrim each other against the only good teams. You influence each other on what is played, this game has never had big competitive scene even during esl times it was the same people over and over. There's a trash game that i used to play that had a 1 million dollar prize but it also only had the same 15 people competing over and over again and then when they went to fight people over-seas the meta was completely different from their understanding

@bluri.2653 said:

the MAT final where 2x mirage/chrono almost won the mAT, and as i said if it wasnt for them BOOSTING helm for $$ (he is not good and hes paying them to get boosted) and the thief team almost loses, hmmm but isnt teef OP? What did teef do the whole game??? Count how many decaps/kills/caps the thief got vs how many kills mirages got :) ontop of that, you could legit have replaced the core guard with another mirage that is decent and legit destroyed the finals.

they still lost, the winning team had random inactive plat3 thief who doesnt even play with them normally and they're still playing on alt classes and somehow until 2 weeks ago ppl were saying that they suck but now they're suddenly the favorites? lol good joke

@bluri.2653 said:Frostball when he is serious, drazeh and kaazer all 3 incredibly good mirages and im 100% sure 3 of them would farm you all over if they spent time on the game again

and whos delusional now?

[Sindrener.1592]

@incisorr.9502 said:

@bluri.2653 said: So much delusional talk in your posts i feel almost bad for you. Do you want me to link all pro leauge including esl cups of whole HoT and you will see 0 thieves in every game. The only time thief saw gameplay was near end of HoT after they kept on nerfing pretty much everything including the reason thief didnt see play (rev) you do know majority of HoT mesmer was KEY 100% in every comp. And it pretty much was through whole vanilla as well due to portal

calling me delusional is pretty sad, living in denial there. I started gw2 since its beta and i never played gw2 seriously because gw2 doesn't require individual skill. It's a team based game with an objective and the skill bar of this game is pretty low, in general most classes are incredibly easy to play mechanically and EVERYTHING ELSE IS CIRCUMSTANCE/TEAM/BUILD/CLASS. I knew that from the start which is why i never bothered wasting my time with gw2. It's not only about fame it's also about fun, i don't find it fun when I PERSONALLY LOSE due to other people's incompetence or lack of dedication or skill and in gw2 there is no avoiding this - in other games the individual has a lot more influence and the game modes are also a lot more competitive than gw2 which is why i didn't play gw2 .The "esl pro league" stuff is completely irrelevant because its from forever ago, because this game's sample size is incredibly small and you have sample bias when you scrim each other against the only good teams. You influence each other on what is played, this game has never had big competitive scene even during esl times it was the same people over and over. There's a trash game that i used to play that had a 1 million dollar prize but it also only had the same 15 people competing over and over again and then when they went to fight people over-seas the meta was completely different from their understanding

@bluri.2653 said:

the MAT final where 2x mirage/chrono almost won the mAT, and as i said if it wasnt for them BOOSTING helm for $$ (he is not good and hes paying them to get boosted) and the thief team almost loses, hmmm but isnt teef OP? What did teef do the whole game??? Count how many decaps/kills/caps the thief got vs how many kills mirages got :) ontop of that, you could legit have replaced the core guard with another mirage that is decent and legit destroyed the finals.

they still lost, the winning team had random inactive plat3 thief who doesnt even play with them normally and they're still playing on alt classes and somehow until 2 weeks ago ppl were saying that they suck but now they're suddenly the favorites? lol good joke

@bluri.2653 said:Frostball when he is serious, drazeh and kaazer all 3 incredibly good mirages and im 100% sure 3 of them would farm you all over if they spent time on the game again

and whos delusional now?

I swear you are like the donald trump of gw2, so out of your mind delusional it's actually hilarious.