Balance Notes Preview - Discussion

[kasoki.5180]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

TLDR: RI as a trait didn't limit alternative builds, the absence of other worthwhile GM traits in that traitline did.

Even though I agree with you that lack of competition against RI is a problem, the trait is way to strong to create a meaningful competition without introducing significant powercreep. This nerf was necessary to even introduce a possible alternative down the line without tuning things to eleven.

[Zephoid.4263]

Completely agree with most of the comments here.

RI doesn't have an alternative worth using. PI with bane signet is 216 power *10s duration /24s cd= 90 power share average. All major passive traits are better than that and this requires a utility too. The other guard signets are straight crap. They need a rework if you want to have any hope of PI surpassing RI.

PVP core guard is dead. Maintaining retail was somewhat difficult due to the location of where a lot of retal came from (AWFUL utilities or a few very contested traits). You couldn't reasonably keep 100% uptime with most DH or core guard builds. However, the payoff really meant you could build around it. In its current state, i think its slightly better than Warrior in 1v1s ,though war wins in group fights and mobility. It's significantly worse than holo vs power, but beter than holo vs most condi builds. Its right in the middle of a lot of the melee oriented power dps classes with its own identity. This nerf kills it completely. 25% crit chance loss in a setting where crit chance is hard to come by. You can't build any other way with core guard, with 2 of the trait lines being complete and utter garbage.

PVE DH shifts from valk/zerker to full zerker, meaning you lose a lot of that buffer hp. Its going to feel like playing weaver all over again in raids. I don't think you will drop any damage, but the HP drop really will matter for a lot of raid and fractal battles. Viper and diviner stats got a LOT worse for fractal fb.

Meanwhile, tank FB gets better. Why? idk. FB already dominates WvW and is easily a more dominating build for pvp. Tank FB are already more influential in generating wins than any dps guard ever was.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@kasoki.5180 said:

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

TLDR: RI as a trait didn't limit alternative builds, the absence of other worthwhile GM traits in that traitline did.

Even though I agree with you that lack of competition against RI is a problem, the trait is way to strong to create a meaningful competition without introducing significant powercreep. This nerf was necessary to even introduce a possible alternative down the line without tuning things to eleven.

But the nerf happened in a vacuum, because despite ANET making changes to the other 2 GM traits, they still would be useless for any Power based DPS build. If the goal of the nerf was to level the playing field and provide players with a choice, that hasn't happened, and therefore the nerf is unwarranted.

Truth told, if you are wearing 100% zerker gear the nerf won't impact you as you were already over crit cap, but that's the part that bugs me, because this trait actually made it possible for a DPS spec to wear some Valkyrie pieces or use accessories with the Berkserk + Valk stat (which drops some precision for vitality) and boost survivability without impacting DPS output. I wonder if maybe the Devs looked at this and said "meh, top tier DH are already at 130% crit cap, we can nerf this".

If you nerf something that didn't need to be nerfed and yet no new options open up, why nerf it?

Again this is really a minor thing, because you can overcome this nerf with gear choices. But it was unnecessary, ineffective, and it will have a negative impact on players who prefer to run around with more than 11k health.

[crazyhusky.2985]

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

@crazyhusky.2985 said:

1500 range on true shot... What about the rest of the longbow? Doesn't the rest of it get extended range like ranger's longbow? What getting rid of that pause for the True shot, because it feels awkward. Big game hunter got slight damage buff, but what we really needed is Dull senses and Heavy light to be reworked, they're rather useless traits needing of an overhaul or replacing.

I agree that some of the LB skills should be 1500 range if they're taking it that direction with trueshot. Ranger LB has 1500 range on every one of their skills except the knockback shot on LB 4, but their effective range is around 1700-1800 with auto attack and rapid fire due to the range buffer which DH doesn't get on anything except auto attack.

Here is the thing most weapons have a fixed range on them for all attacks. Having extended range on one skill isn't good as it'll make the weapon feel more off.I hope they give it 1500 range so we fight back against ranger's better, also being able to out range other classes will help Dragonhunter become a niche pick for things.

[PandaJimmy.7563]

In pve:Dh is still good enough, it still can get 100% critCondi fb might become a good condi dps optionSupport fb doesn’t receive too much benefits from the staff buff.In pvpCore guar get hurt hardI Don’t play wvw

[otto.5684]

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

TLDR: RI as a trait didn't limit alternative builds, the absence of other worthwhile GM traits in that traitline did.

Even though I agree with you that lack of competition against RI is a problem, the trait is way to strong to create a meaningful competition without introducing significant powercreep. This nerf was necessary to even introduce a possible alternative down the line without tuning things to eleven.

Then they should put the alternative now not in 6 month. Cuz I surely ain’t going to play gimped guardian dps in sPvP until Anet figures their shit out. Also, Anet has a habit of breaking things and fixing them. Example, all condi builds not named mirage or scourge. DH. Berserker warrior. That is just naming a few builds nerfed and never became PvP viable again.

I am not going to wait years for power guardian to be Competitive in PvP. If Anet has no fucking clue how to create more options to RI, then they should not nerf it until they do.

Between this patch and last patch in PvP we lost the following:

Hammer coreShatter aegisAnd now power core using GS

None of these builds were even considered top tier in PvP.

[crazyhusky.2985]

@Yannir.4132 said:

I don't see how this would even happen. You are easily overcapping crit chance currently by about 140% with party buffs and it'll be just 115% after the patch.Missing the retal duration is an entirely different issue. Which should be fixed, this is true.The way they are messing with Chrono is an indirect nerf to DH that's much more influential than this change to RI.

Where did you get 140% crit chance from?? I've never had that much crit chance and I doubt most players have.You'd only that high amount of crit if you were using Full Assassin on a guardian with RI and fury. Something Guardians in generally don't really use.Everyone knows that if you were getting that high amount of crit chance then it would be pointless to invest into stat that gives you no benefit from going over it.

Power Guardian/Dragonhunters have mostly use Full Berserker gear in raids. (at times Maruder's/Assassin/Valk trinkets on the side for other things) As we need all the power we can get.Full Berserker gear gives 50% crit chance and Guardians have RI to get the other 50%crit chance , the 20% of fury is there to add us when we can't get retaliation as it is hard to get and upkeep without support. In total it's 120% right now.Now that RI is nerfed, Guardian's now only 95% crit chance with both RI and fury. and without fury it's 75%. This is going to effect damage quite a lot within raids.Dragonhunter was already on the low damage range and with this it's going to make it go further down the ladder.

If they wanted to nerf RI then lowering it to 30% would been better. as it would a Power Guardian/Dragonhunter in full Berserker gear to reach crit chance of 100% with RI and fury.

They're not nerfing Chrono because of Dragonhunter, they nerfed it because it pumped out literally every boon in the game.They changed their minds on what they want Chrono to be, and now they want other classes to have at doing boons so they nerfed it.Dragonhunter has no influence on this. DH doesn't give boons and has trouble keeping it's own retaliation.Chrono's SoI is a blessing for DH, but the issue isn't RI or SoI, it's the lack of retaliation and retaliation duration is an entirely within Dragonhunter. As you said.Dragonhunter needs more access to retaliation. but they're not giving it to us and they're hurting the only way can do decent amounts of damage.

[Math.5123]

Core guard is dead in PvP. It was already sub-par and kind of a niche pick, now it's just straight up worse than it's rev and dps Slb counterparts.

Nothing needed to be changed on core guard, being a noob-killer is completely fine if it drops of at higher levels.You can literally press three buttons on soulbeast and do more damage from 1500 range which is also unblockable.

[otto.5684]

@crazyhusky.2985 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

I don't see how this would even happen. You are easily overcapping crit chance currently by about 140% with party buffs and it'll be just 115% after the patch.Missing the retal duration is an entirely different issue. Which should be fixed, this is true.The way they are messing with Chrono is an indirect nerf to DH that's much more influential than this change to RI.

Where did you get 140% crit chance from?? I've never had that much crit chance and I doubt most players have.You'd only that high amount of crit if you were using Full Assassin on a guardian with RI. Something Guardians in generally don't really use.Everyone knows that if you were getting that high amount of crit chance then it would be pointless to invest into stat that gives you no benefit from going over it.

Power Guardian/Dragonhunters have mostly use Full Berserker gear in raids. (at times Maruder's/Assassin/Valk trinkets on the side for other things) As we need all the power we can get.Full Berserker gear gives 50% crit chance and Guardians have RI to get the other 50%crit chance , the 20% of fury is there to add us when we can't get retaliation as it is hard to get and upkeep without support. In total it's 120% right now.Now that RI is nerfed, Guardian's now only 95% crit chance with both RI and fury. and without fury it's 75%. This is going to effect damage quite a lot within raids.Dragonhunter was already on the low damage range and with this it's going to make it go further down the ladder.

If they wanted to nerf RI then lowering it to 30% would been better. as it would a Power Guardian/Dragonhunter in full Berserker gear to reach crit chance of 100% with RI and fury.

There is a trait that adds 10% critic chance against targets With burn.

Base 50%Fury 20%Burn on target 10%Retaliation 25%

That is 105% after retaliation nerf.

Again, this is a pure PvP issue specifically for core guardian. PvE is not impacted.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@otto.5684 said:There is a trait that adds 10% critic chance against targets With burn.

Base 50%Fury 20%Burn on target 10%Retaliation 25%

That is 105% after retaliation nerf.

Again, this is a pure PvP issue specifically for core guardian. PvE is not impacted.

Unless you aren't running 100% zerk armor...

Playing as 1 of 5 DPS in a raid with a dedicated tank and 2 dedicated healers ≠ what the rest of the game looks like.

[Ghos.1326]

i'm not a guardian main, but why does firebrand need crit chance (RI) to function well in pvp?

[crazyhusky.2985]

@otto.5684 said:

@crazyhusky.2985 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

I don't see how this would even happen. You are easily overcapping crit chance currently by about 140% with party buffs and it'll be just 115% after the patch.Missing the retal duration is an entirely different issue. Which should be fixed, this is true.The way they are messing with Chrono is an indirect nerf to DH that's much more influential than this change to RI.

Where did you get 140% crit chance from?? I've never had that much crit chance and I doubt most players have.You'd only that high amount of crit if you were using Full Assassin on a guardian with RI. Something Guardians in generally don't really use.Everyone knows that if you were getting that high amount of crit chance then it would be pointless to invest into stat that gives you no benefit from going over it.

Power Guardian/Dragonhunters have mostly use Full Berserker gear in raids. (at times Maruder's/Assassin/Valk trinkets on the side for other things) As we need all the power we can get.Full Berserker gear gives 50% crit chance and Guardians have RI to get the other 50%crit chance , the 20% of fury is there to add us when we can't get retaliation as it is hard to get and upkeep without support. In total it's 120% right now.Now that RI is nerfed, Guardian's now only 95% crit chance with both RI and fury. and without fury it's 75%. This is going to effect damage quite a lot within raids.Dragonhunter was already on the low damage range and with this it's going to make it go further down the ladder.

If they wanted to nerf RI then lowering it to 30% would been better. as it would a Power Guardian/Dragonhunter in full Berserker gear to reach crit chance of 100% with RI and fury.

There is a trait that adds 10% critic chance against targets With burn.

Base 50%Fury 20%Burn on target 10%Retaliation 25%

That is 105% after retaliation nerf.

Again, this is a pure PvP issue specifically for core guardian. PvE is not impacted.

Oh sorry I forgot that trait vene existed Since it condition based, still not 140% though.However it still stops a Dragonhunter from able to invest in other stats that it needs. Like Vitality. since it has a low HP pool.You can not run about with max damage guard, because you'll be 1 shot. in pvp/wvw

It wouldn't be bad if they bumped up Guardian to the Mid tier HP Pool, so we can actually be threat.

[otto.5684]

@Turkeyspit.3965 and @crazyhusky.2985 Ya.. you probably cannot drop more than 1 piece of berserk without losing damage in PvE.

You definitely cannot run berserk in PvP. See, if guardian was medium HP pool this trade off would have made sense. I actually think the low HP pool should be entirely removed (and HP of all Pools changed). However considering Anet balance changes as of late, I would say this is way beyond their capacity (or capabilities, I am not that sure anymore).

[otto.5684]

@Ghos.1326 said:i'm not a guardian main, but why does firebrand need crit chance (RI) to function well in pvp?

It doesn’t unless you are playing power FB (which is not common). Then you are in the same ship as all power guardian dps builds.

Actually, this idea that RI is the only useable GM trait in radiance is absolutely false. One buffs power (which is RI), one buffs condi and one is kind of support.

[Yannir.4132]

@crazyhusky.2985 said:Oh sorry I forgot that trait vene existed Since it condition based, still not 140% though.However it still stops a Dragonhunter from able to invest in other stats that it needs. Like Vitality. since it has a low HP pool.You can not run about with max damage guard, because you'll be 1 shot. in pvp/wvw

It wouldn't be bad if they bumped up Guardian to the Mid tier HP Pool, so we can actually be threat.

You get 130% when you count what it currently does, then you add Spotter + Banner which are about 10% together.

50% from Berserker gear set.50% RI currently.20% Fury.10% Radiant Power10% Banner + SpotterEven with 0 party buffs you are sitting at 130% crit chance atm.

And you don't need any extra Vitality, I've been raiding on a Berserker set for years.Obviously this crit chance formula is useless for PvP. Which is what it was meant as.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@otto.5684 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:i'm not a guardian main, but why does firebrand need crit chance (RI) to function well in pvp?

It doesn’t unless you are playing power FB (which is not common). Then you are in the same ship as all power guardian dps builds.

Actually, this idea that RI is the only useable GM trait in radiance is absolutely false. One buffs power (which is RI), one buffs condi and one is kind of support.

I don't think anyone is saying that, but the only condi builds that I'm aware of are FB, all the support builds are FB, while everything else, from Core, DH, Hammer, etc are all power builds, and they would ALL take RI. Their logic was 'RI is too powerful so we want to bring it inline with the other GM traits', and they also changed/buffed the other 2 GM traits.

But any Power based DPS build would still take RIAny Condi based DPS would take Amplified WrathAny Support based build would take Perfect Inscriptions.

Funny thing, that is EXACTLY what it looks like now.So DPS and Support get a buff.Power DPS gets a nerf.

No new choices have been created.

So why did they think Power DPS needed a nerf? Because low ranked sPvP? We have skill split between game modes for that...

[otto.5684]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:i'm not a guardian main, but why does firebrand need crit chance (RI) to function well in pvp?

It doesn’t unless you are playing power FB (which is not common). Then you are in the same ship as all power guardian dps builds.

Actually, this idea that RI is the only useable GM trait in radiance is absolutely false. One buffs power (which is RI), one buffs condi and one is kind of support.

I don't think anyone is saying that, but the only condi builds that I'm aware of are FB, all the support builds are FB, while everything else, from Core, DH, Hammer, etc are all power builds, and they would ALL take RI. Their logic was 'RI is too powerful so we want to bring it inline with the other GM traits', and they also changed/buffed the other 2 GM traits.

But any Power based DPS build would still take RIAny Condi based DPS would take Amplified WrathAny Support based build would take Perfect Inscriptions.

Funny thing, that is EXACTLY what it looks like now.So DPS and Support get a buff.Power DPS gets a nerf.

No new choices have been created.

So why did they think Power DPS needed a nerf? Because low ranked sPvP? We have skill split between game modes for that...

Man, I did not say anywhere that power dps should be nerfed. Neither in post you quoted me or any of the previous ones I posted in this thread. I am with you in disagreement of the change. In fact, the post you quoted me specifically points out the error in Anet logic, where they make it seem that RI is the only option, hence the nerf. Anet is absolutely wrong.

[Obtena.7952]

The nerf to RI was absolutely warranted ... what was a ridiculous buff is now appropriate. I literally couldn't dump enough precision from my build to not exceed the 100% crit cap.

Now, as to the reason Anet gave ... seems like a stretch. Honestly, they should have just come out and said "WTH were we thinking ... 50% is too high" and everyone would have been cool with that. INstead they made some story about how it diminished the value of the other GM traits (which I think was not true).

The other changes are pretty minor impact; none will make me rethink builds I use.

[crazyhusky.2985]

@otto.5684 said:@Turkeyspit.3965 and @"crazyhusky.2985" Ya.. you probably cannot drop more than 1 piece of berserk without losing damage in PvE.

You definitely cannot run berserk in PvP. See, if guardian was medium HP pool this trade off would have made sense. I actually think the low HP pool should be entirely removed (and HP of all Pools changed). However considering Anet balance changes as of late, I would say this is way beyond their capacity (or capabilities, I am not that sure anymore).

It's not beyond their capacity or capabilities, they just don't want to touch Dragonhunter or the pools. The HP values have been an issue for ages.They could add +400 Vitality to the "virtous action" trait that starting trait of Dragonhunter that gives traps, allows Longbow to be equipped and changes the virtues. This way Dragonhunter would have more base vitality without effecting Base guardian or Firebrand and better yet not effecting the build of DH.This would be offset the RI change and allow Guardian to go full damage in pvp/wvw modes as it would have the same HP as Mid tier HP pools.

I agree with you on the HP thing, I don't like the HUGE Vitality gap. Warrior and Nerco have nearly twice as much HP as Guards and Ele's, futhermore Nerco has a 2nd HP bar (not scourge in) It makes battles feel one sided, because you have a lot more to them then they have to do to you. They can go all out and I can't but I HAVE to run something with vitality.I've heard the "guard has blocks thing" but was for ages ago for the base game, now a days we have elite specs and there are a ton of unlockable attacks and traits that weren't there orginally, also invun procs and traits that go through aegis, making it useless. Druid and Tempest can easily out sustian a guardian now. So Guardian having a low HP pool isn't warranted anymore. They need to update the health pools to reflect current power in the game.

If they balanced the HP pools a lot better due to the power creep then it would be more fairer and people would be able to have longer fights. it's no fun being 1 shot.I feel that these amount HP pools would be better. With there being a 3K HP difference between low and tier rather than their being 8K difference.Low HP pools - 17K | Mid HP pools - 18.5K | High HP pools - 20k

[KrHome.1920]

RI: What's the problem with switching gear to marauder, that every other class uses for power builds in competitive modes too?

Mender is also still perfectly usable for PvP.

We can argue whether 25% was nessessary or whether 33% would have done the job too, but a 50% bonus (that was easy to maintain for 100% of the fight) was too much.

[mrauls.6519]

Nerfs in PvP are W I L D

[otto.5684]

@KrHome.1920 said:RI: What's the problem with switching gear to marauder, that every other class uses for power builds in competitive modes too?

Mender is also still perfectly usable for PvP.

We can argue whether 25% was nessessary or whether 33% would have done the job too, but a 50% bonus (that was easy to maintain for 100% of the fight) was too much.

Too much compared to what exactly in PvP?! Holo, herald, warrior, soul beast, mirage or necro?! I laughed a bit when you mentioned mender. You know this whole thread has nothing to do with FB support, right?

[crazyhusky.2985]

@Yannir.4132 said:

@crazyhusky.2985 said:Oh sorry I forgot that trait vene existed Since it condition based, still not 140% though.However it still stops a Dragonhunter from able to invest in other stats that it needs. Like Vitality. since it has a low HP pool.You can not run about with max damage guard, because you'll be 1 shot. in pvp/wvw

It wouldn't be bad if they bumped up Guardian to the Mid tier HP Pool, so we can actually be threat.

You get 130% when you count what it currently does, then you add Spotter + Banner which are about 10% together.

50% from Berserker gear set.50% RI currently.20% Fury.10% Radiant Power10% Banner + SpotterEven with 0 party buffs you are sitting at 130% crit chance atm.

And you don't need any extra Vitality, I've been raiding on a Berserker set for years.Obviously this crit chance formula is useless for PvP. Which is what it was meant as.

I was going from DH/Guard on it's own without any outside effects since you are not always going to have spotter and banners.RI effects Both DH and Base guardian, the nerf it hurts DH more than Base guardian.

That 50% crit chance is VERY diffcult to maintain within the current Meta builds of DH for PVE. It only has 2 ways of getting Retal.Greatsword 4 and heal skill, you shouldn't be using the heal skill to proc retal, because you may need the skill to heal yourself.So basically Dragonhunter has only 1 effective way of getting Retal. which means you need to run Greatsword.If you run try to the virtue traitline to get another couple of ways of gaining Retal, then you're giving up all your power and will have a lower Greatsword CD and DPS.

The issue isn't really RI itself, it is the lack of retal that Dragonhunter can get. This is why you see more Base Guardian's around in pvp.Because you can run Virtues with radiance then pick zeal or valor depending on your playstyle.

[Obtena.7952]

@crazyhusky.2985 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@crazyhusky.2985 said:Oh sorry I forgot that trait vene existed Since it condition based, still not 140% though.However it still stops a Dragonhunter from able to invest in other stats that it needs. Like Vitality. since it has a low HP pool.You can not run about with max damage guard, because you'll be 1 shot. in pvp/wvw

It wouldn't be bad if they bumped up Guardian to the Mid tier HP Pool, so we can actually be threat.

You get 130% when you count what it currently does, then you add Spotter + Banner which are about 10% together.

50% from Berserker gear set.50% RI currently.20% Fury.10% Radiant Power10% Banner + SpotterEven with 0 party buffs you are sitting at 130% crit chance atm.

And you don't need any extra Vitality, I've been raiding on a Berserker set for years.Obviously this crit chance formula is useless for PvP. Which is what it was meant as.

I was going from DH/Guard on it's own without any outside effects since you are not always going to have spotter and banners.RI effects Both DH and Base guardian, the nerf it hurts DH more than Base guardian.

That 50% crit chance is VERY diffcult to maintain within the current Meta builds of DH for PVE. It only has 2 ways of getting Retal.Greatsword 4 and heal skill, you shouldn't be using the heal skill to proc retal, because you may need the skill to heal yourself.So basically Dragonhunter has only 1 effective way of getting Retal. which means you need to run Greatsword.If you run try to the virtue traitline to get another couple of ways of gaining Retal, then you're giving up all your power and will have a lower Greatsword CD and DPS.

The issue isn't really RI itself, it is the lack of retal that Dragonhunter can get. This is why you see more Base Guardian's around in pvp.Because you can run Virtues with radiance then pick zeal or valor depending on your playstyle.

This isn't entirely accurate ... DH has as much Retal access as core or FB because the things that give you retal aren't restricted to non-DH things.

If the current PVE meta restricts DH from good access to Retal to begin with, then the change to RI has almost no impact on DH in the first place.

Change to RI won't affect PVP significantly either ... if people thought 50% was motivating reason to choose RI, they won't scoff at 25% either. The fact is that anyone should have seen this nerf a mile away ... you cap crit so easily and can so easily replace precision with vitality on a wide variety of power gear. Absolutely no tradeoffs there; that's just not sustainable.

[kasoki.5180]

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

Truth told, if you are wearing 100% zerker gear the nerf won't impact you as you were already over crit cap, but that's the part that bugs me, because this trait actually made it possible for a DPS spec to wear some Valkyrie pieces or use accessories with the Berkserk + Valk stat (which drops some precision for vitality) and boost survivability without impacting DPS output. I wonder if maybe the Devs looked at this and said "meh, top tier DH are already at 130% crit cap, we can nerf this".

If you nerf something that didn't need to be nerfed and yet no new options open up, why nerf it?

Again this is really a minor thing, because you can overcome this nerf with gear choices. But it was unnecessary, ineffective, and it will have a negative impact on players who prefer to run around with more than 11k health.

But thats kind of the point. Trait allowed you to bypass what was designed to be professions main weakness and trade off (side note, I agree that HP should be changed). You start from the basic premise that this didnt need to be nerfed, which ArenaNet obviously disagrees with. And so do some other players. The fact that meaningful replacement wasn't implemented doesn't change the fact that trait wasn't good for the game and needed to be nerfed.

@"otto.5684" said:

Too much compared to what exactly in PvP?! Holo, herald, warrior, soul beast, mirage or necro?! I laughed a bit when you mentioned mender. You know this whole thread has nothing to do with FB support, right?

All of the mentioned professions are known "offenders" in PvP. Comparing core guard to things like soulbeast or mirage makes little sense if we are talking about whats good for this game.

The only real difference that this will cause is that core guardians and DHs will have to adapt a more conservative play style since marauder has lower dps output and lower vitality than standard valkyrie combination.

Marauder guardian will have55% crit from amulet25% crit from RI10% crit from RPThats 90% crit chance

On the other hand you lose 150 Power, 340 Ferocity and 340 Vitality.

The issue is that this build had strong defensive elements and offensive on the same kit. And now will have to make some kind of trade offs, which is overall better for the game