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The reasons Berserker fails

Obtena.7952

By Obtena.7952
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KryTiKaL.3125

KryTiKaL.3125

Posted
Posted

@DragonFury.6243 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

@DragonFury.6243 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you can't choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

Not crying, pointing out fact and also pointing out how someone was wrong.

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Sobx.1758
Sobx.1758

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain nich

Sobx.1758
Sobx.1758

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain nich

Sobx.1758
Sobx.1758

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain nich

DragonFury.6243

DragonFury.6243

Posted
Posted

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you
can't
choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

Not crying, pointing out fact and also pointing out how someone was wrong.

we all know thati am currently sitting at 238 on LB but i know by the end of the season i ll get kicked out

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DragonFury.6243

DragonFury.6243

Posted
Posted

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you
can't
choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

Not crying, pointing out fact and also pointing out how someone was wrong.

NOnot true alot of necromancer minor trait can be only used while entering or exiting shroudreaper's might, furious demise, armored shroud

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Sobx.1758

Sobx.1758

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Posted

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

It really isn't. Minor traits provide you no "choice", because when you pick the spec, you just have them 'picked for you' and they often just 'fine tune' the class or its playstyle, that's all they do in a lot of cases, saying that it's unfair for berserk to do that is just a lie.

You also "forgot" to clarify this.

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Sobx.1758

Sobx.1758

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Posted

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you
can't
choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

See, I think the main problem for most people complaining about that is that they want berserker to feel and play like a base warrior, but with more free dmg slapped on top of it. And if that's the case, you might have missed the point of the last patch.

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DragonFury.6243

DragonFury.6243

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@Obtena.7952 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

There isn't a L2P issue if your traits simply don't work when not in berserker; that's just bare bones game mechanics. In fact, if I look at the minor traits in Reaper ... they ALL work when NOT in reaper mode AND when in it ...

Also, EVERY SINGLE Reaper trait has SOME benefit to the player EVEN when not in RS ...

.... so as you were saying???

Well i know what you are sayingEVERY SINGLE Reaper trait !!!!EVERY SINGLE Reaper trait ???what about reaper's onslaught ?? that what i am saying and its not minor its GMs trait

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KryTiKaL.3125

KryTiKaL.3125

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Posted

@DragonFury.6243 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you
can't
choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

Not crying, pointing out fact and also pointing out how someone was wrong.

NOnot true alot of necromancer minor trait can be only used while entering or exiting shroudreaper's might, furious demise, armored shroud

Except those Minor traits are in other Specializations that you use with Reaper and are not specifically a part of Reaper itself.

@Sobx.1758 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

It really isn't. Minor traits provide you no "choice", because when you pick the class, you just have them 'picked for you and they often just 'fine tune' the class or its playstyle, that's all they do in a lot of cases, saying that it's unfair for berserk to do that is just a lie.

You also "forgot" to clarify
.

True it fine tunes but those Minor traits don't directly or only affect the special mode from the Elite Spec. They affect the class even when outside of it.

Berserker, again, is the only Elite Spec where every minor trait in that specific line only affects the special mode from it. Maybe take a look at the Minor Traits for Druid, Soulbeast, Holosmith and Reaper and see what I mean.

As for that other comment, you are "wasting" opportunities to land your burst skills which you need for sustain when using Defense, you only get access to these burst skills when in Berserk Mode. Berserk Mode does count as a level 3 burst but if you are unable to land any burst skills within the short time frame in which Berserk Mode is active then those 3 stacks disappear very quickly. Smarter players will just kite your Berserk Duration or use defensive cooldowns to avoid getting hit by any of these burst skills for the duration. Its a similar problem as to why Rampage isn't exactly that strong in WvW, because you have much more space to just kite out the duration of Rampage, the same can be done to Berserk Mode. The entire reason for canceling a skill or mode like any of the ones we have is so that you're not using up resources or denying yourself access to others based on the circumstances.

With Reaper if you use Reaper's Shroud and you're fighting a Weaver, the Weaver sees you use it and immediately uses their Invuln and Blocks to negate the damage or kites away. You can either continue to drain your lifeforce and stay in Reaper's Shroud, or cancel it and disengage a bit to buy time for it to return (10 seconds) to then unload your burst into a Weaver that now lacks their defensive cooldowns.

With the way Berserk Mode works right now, if you use it and any of those things happen when, just as an example, you're fighting a Weaver then you are completely denied Adrenal Health stacks for survival from landing your burst skills (you do not gain Adrenal Health stacks if your burst skills are blocked, invuln'd, miss or are dodged). Berserk Mode then ends and you now have to build 3 bars of Adrenaline again and are denied access to using Burst skills to maintain your sustain until that happens. Until then you're likely very vulnerable, especially if you needed to waste any stunbreaks or other defensive skills during the duration of Berserk Mode since in that particular example a Weaver can still attack you even while invuln'd or blocking. The inability to end Berserk Mode early is a hindrance, in fact if they simply made it work similarly to any of the other "modes" then it would likely perform much better, however that isn't the case.

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KryTiKaL.3125

KryTiKaL.3125

Posted
Posted

@Sobx.1758 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you
can't
choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

See, I think the main problem for most people complaining about that is that they want berserker to feel and play like a base warrior, but with more free dmg slapped on top of it. And if that's the case, you might have missed the point of the last patch.

And what is Soulbeast? Holosmith? Reaper? Aren't they Elite Specs that add damage with their modes yet still entirely support the Core mechanic of the Core class? Soulbeast still has its Pet skill bar, Holosmith still has hits toolbelt skills, Reaper still has the "extra health bar" just from using Shroud. Yet all of those Elite Specs directly improve damage when they enter their "mode" designed for the Elite Spec.

Each of those modes also still function much better than Berserk Mode does for Berserker.

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Sobx.1758

Sobx.1758

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Posted

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you
can't
choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

Not crying, pointing out fact and also pointing out how someone was wrong.

NOnot true alot of necromancer minor trait can be only used while entering or exiting shroudreaper's might, furious demise, armored shroud

Except those Minor traits are in other Specializations that you use
with
Reaper and are not specifically a part of Reaper itself.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

It really isn't. Minor traits provide you no "choice", because when you pick the class, you just have them 'picked for you and they often just 'fine tune' the class or its playstyle, that's all they do in a lot of cases, saying that it's unfair for berserk to do that is just a lie.

You also "forgot" to clarify
.

True it fine tunes but those Minor traits don't directly or
only
affect the special mode from the Elite Spec. They affect the class even when outside of it.

Says who? Is that a rule given by someone from anet? Minor traits do exactly what they want, you choose to single out "special mode", but why? It's not about "special mode", it's about an "elite spec". Some especs have traits that profit ONLY their unique elite abilities/mechanics, some don't. Saying that it's somehow unfair because it's berserker is just wrong.

Berserker, again, is the only Elite Spec where every minor trait in that specific line only affects the special mode from it. Maybe take a look at the Minor Traits for Druid, Soulbeast, Holosmith and Reaper and see what I mean.

Again, you choose to single out these specs, while you don't have a real reason to. There's nothing wrong with berserkers minor traits.

As for that other comment, you are "wasting" opportunities to land your burst skills which you need for sustain when using Defense, you only get access to these burst skills when in Berserk Mode. Berserk Mode does count as a level 3 burst but if you are unable to land any burst skills within the short time frame in which Berserk Mode is active then those 3 stacks disappear very quickly. Smarter players will just kite your Berserk Duration or use defensive cooldowns to avoid getting hit by any of these burst skills for the duration. Its a similar problem as to why Rampage isn't exactly that strong in WvW, because you have much more space to just kite out the duration of Rampage, the same can be done to Berserk Mode. The entire reason for canceling a skill or mode like any of the ones we have is so that you're not using up resources or denying yourself access to others based on the circumstances.

So now warrior doesn't have enough cc and mobility, eh? Also when you're not hitting a target anyways, then I still don't see what the difference is. Just so you can tap f1, see if you can hit someone, but if you can't, then tap it again so there's literally no counterplay to berserkerr's unique(ish) mechanic? Not saying there's no valid point here, but I don't really see it. Anything that can be counterplayed is somehow bad?

With Reaper if you use Reaper's Shroud and you're fighting a Weaver, the Weaver sees you use it and immediately uses their Invuln and Blocks to negate the damage or kites away. You can either continue to drain your lifeforce and stay in Reaper's Shroud, or cancel it and disengage a bit to buy time for it to return (10 seconds) to then unload your burst into a Weaver that now lacks their defensive cooldowns.

With the way Berserk Mode works right now, if you use it and any of those things happen when, just as an example, you're fighting a Weaver then you are completely denied Adrenal Health stacks for survival from landing your burst skills (you do not gain Adrenal Health stacks if your burst skills are blocked, invuln'd, miss or are dodged). Berserk Mode then ends and you now have to build 3 bars of Adrenaline again and are denied access to using Burst skills to maintain your sustain until that happens. Until then you're likely very vulnerable, especially if you needed to waste any stunbreaks or other defensive skills during the duration of Berserk Mode since in that particular example a Weaver can still attack you even while invuln'd or blocking. The inability to end Berserk Mode early is a hindrance, in fact if they simply made it work similarly to any of the other "modes" then it would likely perform much better, however that isn't the case.

But you can also "disengage for a bit" with berserker and come back when you want to.Also the moment that reaper disengages, the weaver has no business sticking around until his defensive cds are back if he doesn't feel to do so, or are we playing imaginary situations where my opponent does whatever/whenever I want?

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KryTiKaL.3125

KryTiKaL.3125

Posted
Posted

@Sobx.1758 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you
can't
choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

Not crying, pointing out fact and also pointing out how someone was wrong.

NOnot true alot of necromancer minor trait can be only used while entering or exiting shroudreaper's might, furious demise, armored shroud

Except those Minor traits are in other Specializations that you use
with
Reaper and are not specifically a part of Reaper itself.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

It really isn't. Minor traits provide you no "choice", because when you pick the class, you just have them 'picked for you and they often just 'fine tune' the class or its playstyle, that's all they do in a lot of cases, saying that it's unfair for berserk to do that is just a lie.

You also "forgot" to clarify
.

True it fine tunes but those Minor traits don't directly or
only
affect the special mode from the Elite Spec. They affect the class even when outside of it.

Says who? Is that a rule given by someone from anet? Minor traits do exactly what they want, you choose to single out "special mode", but why? It's not about "special mode", it's about an "elite spec". Some especs have traits that profit ONLY their unique elite abilities/mechanics, some don't. Again, saying that it's somehow unfair because it's berserker is just wrong.

Berserker, again, is the only Elite Spec where every minor trait in that
specific
line only affects the special mode from it. Maybe take a look at the Minor Traits for Druid, Soulbeast, Holosmith and Reaper and see what I mean.

Again, you choose to single these specs out, while you don't have a real reason to. There's nothing wrong with berserkers minor traits.

As for that other comment, you are "wasting" opportunities to land your burst skills which you
need
for sustain when using Defense, you only get access to these burst skills when in Berserk Mode. Berserk Mode does count as a level 3 burst but if you are unable to land any burst skills within the short time frame in which Berserk Mode is active then those 3 stacks disappear very quickly. Smarter players will just kite your Berserk Duration or use defensive cooldowns to avoid getting hit by any of these burst skills for the duration. Its a similar problem as to why Rampage isn't exactly
that
strong in WvW, because you have much more space to just kite out the duration of Rampage, the same can be done to Berserk Mode. The entire reason for canceling a skill or mode like any of the ones we have is so that you're not using up resources or denying yourself access to others based on the circumstances.

So now warrior doesn't have enough cc and mobility, eh? Also when you're not hitting a target anyways, then I still don't see what the difference is. Just so you can tap f1, see if you can hit someone, but if you can't, then tap it again so there's literally no counterplay to berserkerr's unique(ish) mechanic? Not saying there's no valid point here, but I don't really see it. Anything that can be counterplayed is somehow bad?

With Reaper if you use Reaper's Shroud and you're fighting a Weaver, the Weaver sees you use it and immediately uses their Invuln and Blocks to negate the damage or kites away. You can either continue to drain your lifeforce and stay in Reaper's Shroud, or cancel it and disengage a bit to buy time for it to return (10 seconds) to then unload your burst into a Weaver that now lacks their defensive cooldowns.

With the way Berserk Mode works right now, if you use it and any of those things happen when, just as an
example
, you're fighting a Weaver then you are completely denied Adrenal Health stacks for
survival
from landing your burst skills (you do not gain Adrenal Health stacks if your burst skills are blocked, invuln'd, miss or are dodged). Berserk Mode then ends and you now have to build 3 bars of Adrenaline again and are denied access to using Burst skills to maintain your sustain until that happens. Until then you're likely very vulnerable, especially if you needed to waste any stunbreaks or other defensive skills during the duration of Berserk Mode since in that particular example a Weaver can still attack you even while invuln'd or blocking. The inability to end Berserk Mode early is a hindrance, in fact if they simply made it work similarly to any of the other "modes" then it would likely perform much better, however that isn't the case.

But you can also "disengage for a bit" with berserker and come back when you want to.Also the moment that reaper disengages, the weaver has no business sticking around until his defensive cds are back if he doesn't feel to do so, or are we playing imaginary situations where my opponent does whatever/whenever I want?

Okay, I think something got lost in translation here.

There isn't anything wrong with the Minor traits for Berserker. They function just fine. The issue here is that with how Berserk Mode functions right now it creates a problem.

Also yes, they can disengage as well...to let Berserk Mode end and then be at 0 Adrenaline to then attempt to build that up again all the while you lack access to your method of sustain; hitting with burst skills. Remember, you need to build 3 bars of Adrenaline again to activate Berserk Mode once more, and it isn't something that just passively generates in combat. You need to be hitting something, weapon swapping or using certain skills to generate Adrenaline. I don't know how fast you think Adrenaline generation is...but its not fast. All those Core Warriors or Spellbreakers you see maybe using their burst skills as frequently as they do? That is them using them at 1 bar or 2 bars, not waiting for the full 3 for Core or 2 for Spellbreaker each and every time.

It is not similar to Reaper's Shroud or Beast mode or Forge Mode in that you can cancel those modes and disengage to wait on their cooldowns and then just activate once more when they are off cooldown. Thats not how that works with Berserk Mode.

Also I'm not saying counterplay is a bad thing...hell no, in fact I've been advocating for like over a year now for them to make Downed State not a thing and actually improve reviving friendly players as a mechanic so improve counterplay. It is just the ease in which it can be counterplayed based around how it currently functions. Its a clunky mess, nowhere near the streamlined and functional state of the other modes like Reaper's Shroud, Beast Mode, Forge Mode, etc.

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Sobx.1758

Sobx.1758

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Posted

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you
can't
choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

See, I think the main problem for most people complaining about that is that they want berserker to feel and play like a base warrior, but with more free dmg slapped on top of it. And if that's the case, you might have missed the point of the last patch.

And what is Soulbeast? Holosmith? Reaper? Aren't they Elite Specs that
add
damage with their modes yet still entirely support the Core mechanic of the Core class? Soulbeast still has its Pet skill bar, Holosmith still has hits toolbelt skills, Reaper still has the "extra health bar" just from using Shroud. Yet all of those Elite Specs directly improve damage when they enter their "mode" designed for the Elite Spec.

I don't play ranger/eng, but if something's broken, it's not a reason to make everyone broken, it's a reason to nerf broken specs. So if you have any valid point here, I feel it's not the point you're trying to make.

Each of those modes also still function much better than Berserk Mode does for Berserker.

But do they really? :D

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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

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@DragonFury.6243 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

There isn't a L2P issue if your traits simply don't work when not in berserker; that's just bare bones game mechanics. In fact, if I look at the minor traits in Reaper ... they ALL work when NOT in reaper mode AND when in it ...

Also, EVERY SINGLE Reaper trait has SOME benefit to the player EVEN when not in RS ...

.... so as you were saying???

Well i know what you are sayingEVERY SINGLE Reaper trait !!!!EVERY SINGLE Reaper trait ???what about reaper's onslaught ?? that what i am saying and its not minor its GMs trait

Again, focused on the details and missing the bigger point ... the fact is that Reaper traitline has value and is a meaningful choice for players EVEN when they aren't in reaper Shroud. Berserker for a significant amount of the traits is NOT. That makes it a REALLY low value option as a game play option.

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KryTiKaL.3125

KryTiKaL.3125

Posted
Posted

@Sobx.1758 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you
can't
choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

See, I think the main problem for most people complaining about that is that they want berserker to feel and play like a base warrior, but with more free dmg slapped on top of it. And if that's the case, you might have missed the point of the last patch.

And what is Soulbeast? Holosmith? Reaper? Aren't they Elite Specs that
add
damage with their modes yet still entirely support the Core mechanic of the Core class? Soulbeast still has its Pet skill bar, Holosmith still has hits toolbelt skills, Reaper still has the "extra health bar" just from using Shroud. Yet all of those Elite Specs directly improve damage when they enter their "mode" designed for the Elite Spec.

I don't play ranger/eng, but if something's broken, it's not a reason to make everyone broken, it's a reason to nerf broken specs. So if you have any valid point here, I feel it's not the point you're trying to make.

Each of those modes also still function much better than Berserk Mode does for Berserker.

But do they really? :D

...Yes they do...Are you just trying to be snarky for the sake of being snarky? I mean really.

As for my point, its that with how Berserk Mode functions in PvP...thats why it can't compete. Sure it has damage, but there is a clunkiness to Berserker that makes it feel and play very lackluster when put against other classes. Remember, Berserker wasn't considered very functional even before this rework because of the state of the game. I.E just with the presence of Holosmith, Soulbeast, Mirage, Chronomancer now, and plenty of others. Basically unless they give these other classes similar treatment to what was done to Berserker then it will again fall way behind and be less than useful.

If my point seemed lost on you, or if it seemed like I wasn't being clear enough then it was because I assumed you had some actual working knowledge of how things perform in PvP. Was I wrong or are you just purposefully trying to be difficult in understanding where this distaste for the rework is coming from?

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Mesket.5728

Mesket.5728

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Posted

@Sobx.1758 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

I don't care about dps. I care about having fun with the class. I'm not. This change was particularly bad from a game design point of view. Just that. My adrenaline sitting there for 12 seconds for nothing agrees (and all the extra adrenaline generated during those 12 secs).

God forbid you have to play around cooldowns on warrior, it seems your point is basically "it's not fun because it has a downtime and that's a bad design". No, it's not. Having no downtime on an increased dmg burst class would be ridiculous.

Also melandru seems to be the only one that made an effort to show his dps tests which can be helpful to other people that cried about spec being useless, because they can't pass 25k or w/e (I won't check the exact number from other threads) and you say it's "irrelevant"? :D Holy kitten.

its basic math, you end berserker, you are sittng at 30 adrenaline... you have nothing to do with it, you are generating more adrenaline,... still on cooldown; that's bad design 101 right there. The class most important resource laying there useless AND being generated for nothing, just waiting on a cooldown that shouldn't be there to begin with. This class is a big mess and they clearly have no idea what to do with it.

And regarding the meta builds and dps exhibitions, I really don't care man, numbers can go up and down but the fun factor is not a math thing, its a core design decision and they screw this one.-

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Caedmon.6798

Caedmon.6798

Posted
Posted

@Mesket.5728 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

I don't care about dps. I care about having fun with the class. I'm not. This change was particularly bad from a game design point of view. Just that. My adrenaline sitting there for 12 seconds for nothing agrees (and all the extra adrenaline generated during those 12 secs).

God forbid you have to play around cooldowns on warrior, it seems your point is basically "it's not fun because it has a downtime and that's a bad design". No, it's not. Having no downtime on an increased dmg burst class would be ridiculous.

Also melandru seems to be the only one that made an effort to show his dps tests which can be helpful to other people that cried about spec being useless, because they can't pass 25k or w/e (I won't check the exact number from other threads) and you say it's "irrelevant"? :D Holy kitten.

its basic math, you end berserker, you are sittng at 30 adrenaline... you have nothing to do with it, you are generating more adrenaline,... still on cooldown; that's bad design 101 right there. The class most important resource laying there useless AND being generated for nothing, just waiting on a cooldown that shouldn't be there to begin with. This class is a big mess and they clearly have no idea what to do with it.

And regarding the meta builds and dps exhibitions, I really don't care man, numbers can go up and down but the fun factor is not a math thing, its a core design decision and they screw this one.-

You play agressive when berserk is on,you play defensive when on cd,how is this a problem if not only seen from a pve perspective ?

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RedShark.9548

RedShark.9548

Posted
Posted

@Caedmon.6798 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

I don't care about dps. I care about having fun with the class. I'm not. This change was particularly bad from a game design point of view. Just that. My adrenaline sitting there for 12 seconds for nothing agrees (and all the extra adrenaline generated during those 12 secs).

God forbid you have to play around cooldowns on warrior, it seems your point is basically "it's not fun because it has a downtime and that's a bad design". No, it's not. Having no downtime on an increased dmg burst class would be ridiculous.

Also melandru seems to be the only one that made an effort to show his dps tests which can be helpful to other people that cried about spec being useless, because they can't pass 25k or w/e (I won't check the exact number from other threads) and you say it's "irrelevant"? :D Holy kitten.

its basic math, you end berserker, you are sittng at 30 adrenaline... you have nothing to do with it, you are generating more adrenaline,... still on cooldown; that's bad design 101 right there. The class most important resource laying there useless AND being generated for nothing, just waiting on a cooldown that shouldn't be there to begin with. This class is a big mess and they clearly have no idea what to do with it.

And regarding the meta builds and dps exhibitions, I really don't care man, numbers can go up and down but the fun factor is not a math thing, its a core design decision and they screw this one.-

You play agressive when berserk is on,you play defensive when on cd,how is this a problem if not only seen from a pve perspective ?

Hes saying that after you did your berserker shenanigans your sppecial class resource (adrenalin) is completely useless while you wait for the berserker cd to tick down.

Its not about how you play in and after berserk mode, its about how the design is a failure, when you cant do kitten with the class exclusive resource.

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sigur.9453

sigur.9453

Posted
Posted

@"melandru.3876" said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

nice video.the only thing that turns me off is that there are sooo many channeling skills in the rotation. time to unbind dodge i guess.

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DragonFury.6243

DragonFury.6243

Posted
Posted

@RedShark.9548 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

I don't care about dps. I care about having fun with the class. I'm not. This change was particularly bad from a game design point of view. Just that. My adrenaline sitting there for 12 seconds for nothing agrees (and all the extra adrenaline generated during those 12 secs).

God forbid you have to play around cooldowns on warrior, it seems your point is basically "it's not fun because it has a downtime and that's a bad design". No, it's not. Having no downtime on an increased dmg burst class would be ridiculous.

Also melandru seems to be the only one that made an effort to show his dps tests which can be helpful to other people that cried about spec being useless, because they can't pass 25k or w/e (I won't check the exact number from other threads) and you say it's "irrelevant"? :D Holy kitten.

its basic math, you end berserker, you are sittng at 30 adrenaline... you have nothing to do with it, you are generating more adrenaline,... still on cooldown; that's bad design 101 right there. The class most important resource laying there useless AND being generated for nothing, just waiting on a cooldown that shouldn't be there to begin with. This class is a big mess and they clearly have no idea what to do with it.

And regarding the meta builds and dps exhibitions, I really don't care man, numbers can go up and down but the fun factor is not a math thing, its a core design decision and they screw this one.-

You play agressive when berserk is on,you play defensive when on cd,how is this a problem if not only seen from a pve perspective ?

Hes saying that after you did your berserker shenanigans your sppecial class resource (adrenalin) is completely useless while you wait for the berserker cd to tick down.

Its not about how you play in and after berserk mode, its about how the design is a failure, when you cant do kitten with the class exclusive resource.

"design is a failure"reaper have the close design as berserker all your LF wont help while waiting for CD to end your best skill is in shroud and in necro case you cant even use your utility and cant be healed while in shroud

to enter your special form reaper is better than berserker because longer CD and you dont need max LFafter entering your special form berserker is better than reaper because you can access you utility and can be healed and taking damage wont force you to leave bersekerin case of defense both suffer a lotwhy you say because you dont want to "design" broken elite

the last patch introduce trad off and this is how trad off work if you want the all 3 tiers burst skill play core if you want only 3 tier burst play berserker if you want 1 tier burst play SB

and before you say what about holo and chrono and x elite well Anet did mention them and they ll have a trad off all what we can hope is not a trad off like the rev one and if that the case well berserker need a buff and many elites

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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

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  • Author
Posted

@DragonFury.6243 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

I don't care about dps. I care about having fun with the class. I'm not. This change was particularly bad from a game design point of view. Just that. My adrenaline sitting there for 12 seconds for nothing agrees (and all the extra adrenaline generated during those 12 secs).

God forbid you have to play around cooldowns on warrior, it seems your point is basically "it's not fun because it has a downtime and that's a bad design". No, it's not. Having no downtime on an increased dmg burst class would be ridiculous.

Also melandru seems to be the only one that made an effort to show his dps tests which can be helpful to other people that cried about spec being useless, because they can't pass 25k or w/e (I won't check the exact number from other threads) and you say it's "irrelevant"? :D Holy kitten.

its basic math, you end berserker, you are sittng at 30 adrenaline... you have nothing to do with it, you are generating more adrenaline,... still on cooldown; that's bad design 101 right there. The class most important resource laying there useless AND being generated for nothing, just waiting on a cooldown that shouldn't be there to begin with. This class is a big mess and they clearly have no idea what to do with it.

And regarding the meta builds and dps exhibitions, I really don't care man, numbers can go up and down but the fun factor is not a math thing, its a core design decision and they screw this one.-

You play agressive when berserk is on,you play defensive when on cd,how is this a problem if not only seen from a pve perspective ?

Hes saying that after you did your berserker shenanigans your sppecial class resource (adrenalin) is completely useless while you wait for the berserker cd to tick down.

Its not about how you play in and after berserk mode, its about how the design is a failure, when you cant do kitten with the class exclusive resource.

"design is a failure"reaper have the close design as berserker all your LF wont help while waiting for CD to end your best skill is in shroud and in necro case you cant even use your utility and cant be healed while in shroud

to enter your special form reaper is better than berserker because longer CD and you dont need max LFafter entering your special form berserker is better than reaper because you can access you utility and can be healed and taking damage wont force you to leave bersekerin case of defense both suffer a lotwhy you say because you dont want to "design" broken elite

the last patch introduce trad off and this is how trad off work if you want the all 3 tiers burst skill play core if you want only 3 tier burst play berserker if you want 1 tier burst play SB

and before you say what about holo and chrono and x elite well Anet did mention them and they ll have a trad off all what we can hope is not a trad off like the rev one and if that the case well berserker need a buff and many elites

Berserker as a espec is deficient for a much more complex reason than what you are talking about here. Your comparisons to reaper are irrelevant to this discussion, primarily because LF does not behave like Adrenaline and F1 on necro is not an attack whereas F1 is on warrior. Your attempts to demonstrate berserker is 'fine' through your comparisons do not make sense.

Since you love comparing so much though ... Imagine your LF on reaper decayed out of combat and you couldn't use it until it was full. That would be a pretty suck ass situation on Reaper if you ask me ... but you didn't think of that now did you?

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Vlad Morbius.1759

Vlad Morbius.1759

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Posted

@Obtena.7952 said:There isn't a L2P issue if your traits simply don't work when not in berserker; that's just bare bones game mechanics. In fact, if I look at the minor traits in Reaper ... they ALL work when NOT in reaper mode AND when in it ...

Also, EVERY SINGLE Reaper trait has SOME benefit to the player EVEN when not in RS ...

.... so as you were saying???

If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated!

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DragonFury.6243

DragonFury.6243

Posted
Posted

@Obtena.7952 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

I don't care about dps. I care about having fun with the class. I'm not. This change was particularly bad from a game design point of view. Just that. My adrenaline sitting there for 12 seconds for nothing agrees (and all the extra adrenaline generated during those 12 secs).

God forbid you have to play around cooldowns on warrior, it seems your point is basically "it's not fun because it has a downtime and that's a bad design". No, it's not. Having no downtime on an increased dmg burst class would be ridiculous.

Also melandru seems to be the only one that made an effort to show his dps tests which can be helpful to other people that cried about spec being useless, because they can't pass 25k or w/e (I won't check the exact number from other threads) and you say it's "irrelevant"? :D Holy kitten.

its basic math, you end berserker, you are sittng at 30 adrenaline... you have nothing to do with it, you are generating more adrenaline,... still on cooldown; that's bad design 101 right there. The class most important resource laying there useless AND being generated for nothing, just waiting on a cooldown that shouldn't be there to begin with. This class is a big mess and they clearly have no idea what to do with it.

And regarding the meta builds and dps exhibitions, I really don't care man, numbers can go up and down but the fun factor is not a math thing, its a core design decision and they screw this one.-

You play agressive when berserk is on,you play defensive when on cd,how is this a problem if not only seen from a pve perspective ?

Hes saying that after you did your berserker shenanigans your sppecial class resource (adrenalin) is completely useless while you wait for the berserker cd to tick down.

Its not about how you play in and after berserk mode, its about how the design is a failure, when you cant do kitten with the class exclusive resource.

"design is a failure"reaper have the close design as berserker all your LF wont help while waiting for CD to end your best skill is in shroud and in necro case you cant even use your utility and cant be healed while in shroud

to enter your special form reaper is better than berserker because longer CD and you dont need max LFafter entering your special form berserker is better than reaper because you can access you utility and can be healed and taking damage wont force you to leave bersekerin case of defense both suffer a lotwhy you say because you dont want to "design" broken elite

the last patch introduce trad off and this is how trad off work if you want the all 3 tiers burst skill play core if you want only 3 tier burst play berserker if you want 1 tier burst play SB

and before you say what about holo and chrono and x elite well Anet did mention them and they ll have a trad off all what we can hope is not a trad off like the rev one and if that the case well berserker need a buff and many elites

Berserker as a espec is deficient for a much more complex reason than what you are talking about here. Your comparisons to reaper are irrelevant to this discussion, primarily because LF does not behave like Adrenaline and F1 on necro is not an attack whereas F1 is on warrior. Your attempts to demonstrate berserker is 'fine' through your comparisons do not make sense.

Since you love comparing so much though ... Imagine your LF on reaper decayed out of combat and you couldn't use it until it was full. That would be a pretty suck kitten situation on Reaper if you ask me ... but you didn't think of that now did you?

imagine you lose Adrenaline when you get hitThat would be a pretty suck kitten situation on berserker if you ask me !!

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melandru.3876

melandru.3876

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Posted

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

Forgive me if I lack confidence in its performance outside of the PvP game mode that forces people to sit inside of a tiny capture point. We already see across multiple builds and have seen across multiple seasons that any AoE the engulfs the capture points is what dictates if that class/build is strong in the sPvP meta. The only outlier is "Does it have mobility?" and thats just for +1ing and rotating. Holo, Scourge, Firebrand (support wise), Spellbreaker, Chronomancer, and the list goes on. No one is denying the strength of Arc Divider, in fact its one of the few things I actually like about the changes. However everything else about the rework is terrible. Its all terribly clunky and it has completely trampled over the flow that Warrior typically has.

If Berserk Mode functioned more like Necro Shroud, or Forge Mode or Beast Mode then I would say you'd be right but it
doesn't
and thats a problem you're going to run into once people figure it out. It doesn't take much, trust me, but the GW2 community, even those in your "beloved" sPvP gamemode is typically a little slow on the uptake with this stuff. I've said it before on these forums but when I have gotten some Condi Mirage trying to "flex" at me by boasting about being in the top 250 and then once he played on any other build other than Condi Mirage (before the Mirage Cloak nerf) and they get run over like they are some new player...yeah it doesn't inspire confidence that "Plat 1" means anything anymore.

i never play condi in PvP i hate condi !!i play power holo power SB power core guard power teefmirage and scourge is the best carry elites in PvP

I hate condi too, but none of what you just said was my point.

My point is that the state of sPvP and its balance is just...not great. I stopped playing it because of that, as well as the wintrading in the top ranks during Ranked Seasons.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

you cry about minors while some GMs for necro can be ONLY used in shroud

Right...but you can choose whether to use those or not. The Minors (the ones you
can't
choose) are there and always there and Berserker is the only class with a "mode" skill that has Minors entirely built around their special mode.

Not crying, pointing out fact and also pointing out how someone was wrong.

NOnot true alot of necromancer minor trait can be only used while entering or exiting shroudreaper's might, furious demise, armored shroud

Except those Minor traits are in other Specializations that you use
with
Reaper and are not specifically a part of Reaper itself.

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

it's about missing out on a significant number of traits. A trait line that is only active part of the time because of some mode you are in is deficient and lacking. This is a problem on Warrior especially, given that it's the class with the least number of actions.

it is just L2P issueit is like reaperyou cant get alot of trait until you enter or exit reaper shroudreaper's might, spiteful spirit, plague sending, furious demise, path of corruption, w eakening shroud, armored shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength, beyond the veil, unholy sanctuary, life from death, unholy m artyr, transfusion, unyielding blast, speed of shadows, soul barbs, foot in the grave, death perception, dhuumfire, reaper's onslaught

and now berserker is some how the same

It isn't. Like I've said in other threads and a bit in this one...

Reapers and Necros have the
option
of entering or exiting Shroud. They can turn it on or off, there is a cooldown after they turn it off but it allows them to put it onto cooldown so they don't potentially waste it as they unload into blocks or invulns or if the enemy kites away.

Those traits do actually have value because of the availability of Shroud to Necro which is on a much more consistent basis than Berserker has. Necro/Reaper does not need to build a full bar of Life Force, they only need 10% of it to activate Shroud and again once activated they can turn it off and put it onto cooldown should the situation call for it.

Berserker does not have this so saying they are the same is
not
accurate.

that why i said berserker SOME how the same

Right but that doesn't make it justification for any of this being a "l2p" issue. That makes Berserk Mode functionally horrible and having
the worst
functionality among all of the other "Mode" skills in the game.

Basically compared to the others...
it is garbage
.

i played berserker in plat 1 and i had little to no problems(mainly condi build such scourge)may be the elite mechanic is not garbage may be some thing else ( player skills )

The fact that everything is new right now makes your singular experience 1 day after the change rather meaningless to be honest. Wait until people can figure out you can basically shut down a Berserker with a dodge.

i hope you know that no 1 can dodge Arc Divider

I hope you realize that you've just told me for Berserker to minimize it's risk, I MUST play a GS ... and of course you missed the point of my statement but that's OK .. .that's on par for yo.

I'm not even talking about optimized play here. I'm talking at an even more basic level of function and play.

nearly every war build MUST use GS its the best kit and mobility weapon war havewhat weapon are you using ?

See, you don't get it. There isn't an argument here that the burst mechanic for Berserker is 'fine' because of GS Arc Divider ... that's ridiculous. If Anet didn't want you to have meaningful choices, we wouldn't GET meaningful choices. You're basically telling me that Anet doesn't want players have to meaningful choices outside of GS because of what 'must' be played. That's just nonsense. If anything, you're just helping me illustrate what's wrong with it ...

if I MUST play a GS, because how berserker mode triggers .. .that's a MASSIVE problem.

But you complained about "having to take GS", when you take GS anyways. Meaningful choices are cool, but how is this any argument here? It's not the only class o weapon that is picked on most builds for its utility, why is this a problem NOW with this particular spec?

Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Actually it is a little out of the ordinary. The minor traits for Berserker for other Elite Specs with "modes"? Soulbeast, Druid, Holosmith, Reaper don't have
all
of their minor traits entirely associated with their special mode.

I swear its like you guys are just...talking about things and comparing things you just do not understand. Where is your information? Its not hard to access. There is a wiki, and skill calculator websites.

It really isn't. Minor traits provide you no "choice", because when you pick the class, you just have them 'picked for you and they often just 'fine tune' the class or its playstyle, that's all they do in a lot of cases, saying that it's unfair for berserk to do that is just a lie.

You also "forgot" to clarify
.

True it fine tunes but those Minor traits don't directly or
only
affect the special mode from the Elite Spec. They affect the class even when outside of it.

Berserker, again, is the only Elite Spec where every minor trait in that
specific
line only affects the special mode from it. Maybe take a look at the Minor Traits for Druid, Soulbeast, Holosmith and Reaper and see what I mean.

As for that other comment, you are "wasting" opportunities to land your burst skills which you
need
for sustain when using Defense, you only get access to these burst skills when in Berserk Mode. Berserk Mode does count as a level 3 burst but if you are unable to land any burst skills within the short time frame in which Berserk Mode is active then those 3 stacks disappear very quickly. Smarter players will just kite your Berserk Duration or use defensive cooldowns to avoid getting hit by any of these burst skills for the duration. Its a similar problem as to why Rampage isn't exactly
that
strong in WvW, because you have much more space to just kite out the duration of Rampage, the same can be done to Berserk Mode. The entire reason for canceling a skill or mode like any of the ones we have is so that you're not using up resources or denying yourself access to others based on the circumstances.

With Reaper if you use Reaper's Shroud and you're fighting a Weaver, the Weaver sees you use it and immediately uses their Invuln and Blocks to negate the damage or kites away. You can either continue to drain your lifeforce and stay in Reaper's Shroud, or cancel it and disengage a bit to buy time for it to return (10 seconds) to then unload your burst into a Weaver that now lacks their defensive cooldowns.

With the way Berserk Mode works right now, if you use it and any of those things happen when, just as an
example
, you're fighting a Weaver then you are completely denied Adrenal Health stacks for
survival
from landing your burst skills (you do not gain Adrenal Health stacks if your burst skills are blocked, invuln'd, miss or are dodged). Berserk Mode then ends and you now have to build 3 bars of Adrenaline again and are denied access to using Burst skills to maintain your sustain until that happens. Until then you're likely very vulnerable, especially if you needed to waste any stunbreaks or other defensive skills during the duration of Berserk Mode since in that particular example a Weaver can still attack you even while invuln'd or blocking. The inability to end Berserk Mode early is a hindrance, in fact if they simply made it work similarly to any of the other "modes" then it would likely perform much better, however that isn't the case.

but,

using berserk allready provides you with 3 stacks of adrenal health for 15 seconds you don't need to land a burst skill for that, not anymore

i play berserk like in played spb in plat 3 last season

when i tether, i go on offensive, when tether is on cd i am oni defensivereplace tether with berserker, still the same

only thing that changed is the might for might makes right sustain, which is why i (and probably everyone) not use might makes right anymore

try gs + hammer with merciless hammer trait and burst mastery trait

primal hammer burst is sweet, and 10 adrenaline on disable, so building up enough adenaline for your next berserk, shouldn't be that hard

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@Mesket.5728 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

I don't care about dps. I care about having fun with the class. I'm not. This change was particularly bad from a game design point of view. Just that. My adrenaline sitting there for 12 seconds for nothing agrees (and all the extra adrenaline generated during those 12 secs).

God forbid you have to play around cooldowns on warrior, it seems your point is basically "it's not fun because it has a downtime and that's a bad design". No, it's not. Having no downtime on an increased dmg burst class would be ridiculous.

Also melandru seems to be the only one that made an effort to show his dps tests which can be helpful to other people that cried about spec being useless, because they can't pass 25k or w/e (I won't check the exact number from other threads) and you say it's "irrelevant"? :D Holy kitten.

its basic math, you end berserker, you are sittng at 30 adrenaline... you have nothing to do with it, you are generating more adrenaline,... still on cooldown; that's bad design 101 right there. The class most important resource laying there useless AND being generated for nothing, just waiting on a cooldown that shouldn't be there to begin with. This class is a big mess and they clearly have no idea what to do with it.

How is that a relevant answer to what I wrote? If you didn't have any downtime, I wouldn't write "god forbid you have to play around cooldowns", right? So what kind of "basic math" answer is that? And no, that's not a bad design just because you can't smash your face on the keyboard without a break (you actually can, just not getting the buffs you desire for the entire duration, which IS a conscious design choice from what we can see). If you want to play basic warrior, then go play basic warrior, if you want to use your increased burst, deal with the fact that you can use it in a specific time window.

And regarding the meta builds and dps exhibitions, I really don't care man, numbers can go up and down but the fun factor is not a math thing, its a core design decision and they screw this one.-

But you just told me that it's "basic math"? I guess you can use that ""argument"" whenever it fits you, w/e you say then. It's a core design decision and having windows of being able to use specific skills or make certain 'plays' isn't anything rare or new in gaming world, let alone mmorpgs. Just because you don't like the fact that you can't spam the same shit without being penalized in any way doesn't automatically make it a "bad design" like you try to claim.

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@Caedmon.6798 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

I don't care about dps. I care about having fun with the class. I'm not. This change was particularly bad from a game design point of view. Just that. My adrenaline sitting there for 12 seconds for nothing agrees (and all the extra adrenaline generated during those 12 secs).

God forbid you have to play around cooldowns on warrior, it seems your point is basically "it's not fun because it has a downtime and that's a bad design". No, it's not. Having no downtime on an increased dmg burst class would be ridiculous.

Also melandru seems to be the only one that made an effort to show his dps tests which can be helpful to other people that cried about spec being useless, because they can't pass 25k or w/e (I won't check the exact number from other threads) and you say it's "irrelevant"? :D Holy kitten.

its basic math, you end berserker, you are sittng at 30 adrenaline... you have nothing to do with it, you are generating more adrenaline,... still on cooldown; that's bad design 101 right there. The class most important resource laying there useless AND being generated for nothing, just waiting on a cooldown that shouldn't be there to begin with. This class is a big mess and they clearly have no idea what to do with it.

And regarding the meta builds and dps exhibitions, I really don't care man, numbers can go up and down but the fun factor is not a math thing, its a core design decision and they screw this one.-

You play agressive when berserk is on,you play defensive when on cd,how is this a problem if not only seen from a pve perspective ?

Holy shit, I'm glad someone understands that just because you can't go as "HAM" as you'd like 24/7, it doesn't mean it's a bad design. IMO it's quite the opposite.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

32.5k dps isn't that bad really, and the build can be further optimized and the rotation needs to be ironed out

i'm sure the build can go up to 33k which is decent

Video is great and you can dish decent damage, but this kind of footage really hurt the discussion because (from what I'm seeing, correct me if I'm wrong) your build works just fine for a certain niche of activities. How do you deal with conditions? or knockdowns? or if you have to start dodging, or getting out of AOE and you loose that rotation... you are back again to useless core warrior without F1. Hitting a dummy says little to nothing about how fun a class is.

Other warriors come here and says "Berseker is fine cause you have to do A, B and C" and that is the perfect reason why it is NOT fine. No class should have 1 way of playing it or be useless.

every dps test is done on a "golem dummy"

what you say for warrior, counts for every other build out there so i fail to see your pointunless only the warrior has to move, and the others can stand on their spot your point somehow fell in the water

Of course, all classes has to, but Berserker looses its specialization if it does. You can't maintain attacks and you are back to useless for 12 long seconds.

if you are focuing on trying to stay in berserk, you also lose dps

just threat it the same as reaper, find the healthy balance of being in and out, and focus on that

I don't care about dps. I care about having fun with the class. I'm not. This change was particularly bad from a game design point of view. Just that. My adrenaline sitting there for 12 seconds for nothing agrees (and all the extra adrenaline generated during those 12 secs).

God forbid you have to play around cooldowns on warrior, it seems your point is basically "it's not fun because it has a downtime and that's a bad design". No, it's not. Having no downtime on an increased dmg burst class would be ridiculous.

Also melandru seems to be the only one that made an effort to show his dps tests which can be helpful to other people that cried about spec being useless, because they can't pass 25k or w/e (I won't check the exact number from other threads) and you say it's "irrelevant"? :D Holy kitten.

its basic math, you end berserker, you are sittng at 30 adrenaline... you have nothing to do with it, you are generating more adrenaline,... still on cooldown; that's bad design 101 right there. The class most important resource laying there useless AND being generated for nothing, just waiting on a cooldown that shouldn't be there to begin with. This class is a big mess and they clearly have no idea what to do with it.

And regarding the meta builds and dps exhibitions, I really don't care man, numbers can go up and down but the fun factor is not a math thing, its a core design decision and they screw this one.-

You play agressive when berserk is on,you play defensive when on cd,how is this a problem if not only seen from a pve perspective ?

Hes saying that after you did your berserker shenanigans your sppecial class resource (adrenalin) is completely useless while you wait for the berserker cd to tick down.

Its not about how you play in and after berserk mode, its about how the design is a failure, when you cant do kitten with the class exclusive resource.

"design is a failure"reaper have the close design as berserker all your LF wont help while waiting for CD to end your best skill is in shroud and in necro case you cant even use your utility and cant be healed while in shroud

to enter your special form reaper is better than berserker because longer CD and you dont need max LFafter entering your special form berserker is better than reaper because you can access you utility and can be healed and taking damage wont force you to leave bersekerin case of defense both suffer a lotwhy you say because you dont want to "design" broken elite

the last patch introduce trad off and this is how trad off work if you want the all 3 tiers burst skill play core if you want only 3 tier burst play berserker if you want 1 tier burst play SB

and before you say what about holo and chrono and x elite well Anet did mention them and they ll have a trad off all what we can hope is not a trad off like the rev one and if that the case well berserker need a buff and many elites

Berserker as a espec is deficient for a much more complex reason than what you are talking about here. Your comparisons to reaper are irrelevant to this discussion, primarily because LF does not behave like Adrenaline and F1 on necro is not an attack whereas F1 is on warrior. Your attempts to demonstrate berserker is 'fine' through your comparisons do not make sense.

Since you love comparing so much though ... Imagine your LF on reaper decayed out of combat and you couldn't use it until it was full. That would be a pretty suck kitten situation on Reaper if you ask me ... but you didn't think of that now did you?

Imagine you can use berserk without full adrenaline, but you get hit once and it automatically goes on cooldown without you being able to do crap about that. One time you compare the two when it fits you, then you say the comparisons don't work here, but it's clear you just say that because it can show different things depending on what you're trying to prove. The classes, their skills, resources and playstyles are different, so you might as well stop trying to make an argument out of that. Just because you like "x resource on y class" doesn't magically make another class a "bad design". You're just saying that because you don't want to have any meaningful downside. Pop berk, but someone burns escape cooldowns? w/e, turn off the berk and wait for him to come back (or keep chasing him to pop berk again in case you catch him because you're a warrior with shitton of mobility). Good design, ok.

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