Gathering in multiple Guild Halls

[Invisible Pete.7290]

Thanks for allowing players to be able to join multiple guilds!

As a member of five guilds (and leader of three), I have enjoyed the ability to gather at some of the various Guild Halls; however, I have to question why the nodes are limited.

They are synthesizers, meaning that the resource tier harvested is randomly determined (once past tier 1) - someone cannot expect to get a specific resource when harvesting (like with a "Rich" node). This defeats targeted farming. A guild has to spend resources (materials and time [getting Favor by doing Guild Missions and waiting for enough aetherium to be mined]) in order to increment the tier level. Each added increment decreases the probability of getting a specific resource: Tier 1 = 100%, Tier 2= 50%, Tier 3= 33%, Tier 4 = 25%, Tier 5 = 20%, Tier 6 = 16.67%.

Synthesizers in WvW have an hour cool down before they can be harvested again. In a Guild Hall, a node may be harvested once per day (refreshing at the daily reset);, However, a guild may once again expend resources (materials and time [getting favor by doing Guild Missions and waiting for enough aetherium to be mined]) to upgrade the quantity of materials that can be harvested once per day utilizing Synthesis upgrades, although the type of material garnered remains random.

If you could only belong to one guild, then there would be no issue. But a player may be a member of up to five different guilds, with a guild hall in one of three possible locations. If any of those guilds have invested materials and time in to acquiring the same the same level of Synthesis upgrade (the Wiki refers to "upgrades" which would include both Tier improvement and quantity improvement, however I discovered that it only applies to the same level of Synthesis), then harvesting in one Guild Hall NULLIFIES the ability to harvest in the other(s).

Some people have compared the Guild Hall to a player's Home Instance. For example: a Home Instance for each of the playable races compares to Three possible Guild Hall locations. In this case, a node harvested in one Home Instance cannot be harvested in another (with the exception of the two different Candy Corn nodes); this is very similar to the restriction in Guild Halls. However, one knows what one will get when harvesting in a home instance, whereas the Guild Hall synthesizers provide random materials.

Improving one's Home Instance minimally requires an investment in time to acquire either materials or gold to trade for the improvement from the TP or gold to trade for Gems or the outright purchase of Gems (which help to support the game). One does not level one's Home Instance. Only the owning player is contributing to improving a Home Instance.

Improving a Guild Hall synthesizer requires guild members to pool their resources (materials) and coordinate their time for Guild Missions (Favor) along with waiting long enough for a sufficient quantity of aetherium to be produced by the Guild Mine. Also, the Guild needs to be a minimal level in order to unlock various levels of upgrades. Guild gain levels by upgrading the guild hall. Optimally, Guilds will try to achieve the highest level. Unfortunately, if Guilds fully upgrade their synthesizers, then they lose reduce the gathering benefit for it members to only a single guild. Or its members have to try to convince other Guilds not to improve their synthesizers beyond a certain benefit so that they can benefit from contributing to the growth of multiple Guild Halls.

Guild Wars 2 was advertised as a "play as you want" style of MMORPG. If a player wants to spend time harvesting from multiple Guild Halls that they are contributing time to, I do not see the harm in allowing that. At the worst, they could spend time gathering in five different Guild Halls - without preventing each of those guilds from being able to fully level.

[Skull Duggery.3192]

RE: "If any of those guilds have invested materials and time in to acquiring the same the same level of Synthesis upgrade (the Wiki refers to "upgrades" which would include both Tier improvement and quantity improvement, however I discovered that it only applies to the same level of Synthesis), then harvesting in one Guild Hall NULLIFIES the ability to harvest in the other(s)."

I'm not sure that is wholly accurate. Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong but here is a specific example where node specific level versus synthesis level doesn't appear to be functioning in a consistent manner w/ regard to whether or not the node disappears from one hall to the next. GH#1: Lumber 1, Output 1 - GH#2: Lumber 1, Output 0. Unable to harvest from both guilds in a given day.

I think there are a couple of other exceptions which seem to refute any hard rule I try to formulate regarding the combination of node level and synth level. I've started tracking which guilds I harvest, in what order, and where all their upgrades are at the time. I'm keenly interested in figuring this out as I level up my own guild such that it doesn't conflict with any of the other 4 I'm in.

Possible complicating factor... I do have a glyph of bounty loaded in my logging tool. Tomorrow I think I'll pull the glyph just to be sure that isn't having an unintended consequence on the results.

[thehipone.6812]

@"Skull Duggery.3192" said:RE: "If any of those guilds have invested materials and time in to acquiring the same the same level of Synthesis upgrade (the Wiki refers to "upgrades" which would include both Tier improvement and quantity improvement, however I discovered that it only applies to the same level of Synthesis), then harvesting in one Guild Hall NULLIFIES the ability to harvest in the other(s)."

I'm not sure that is wholly accurate. Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong but here is a specific example where node specific level versus synthesis level doesn't appear to be functioning in a consistent manner w/ regard to whether or not the node disappears from one hall to the next. GH#1: Lumber 1, Output 1 - GH#2: Lumber 1, Output 0. Unable to harvest from both guilds in a given day.

I think there are a couple of other exceptions which seem to refute any hard rule I try to formulate regarding the combination of node level and synth level. I've started tracking which guilds I harvest, in what order, and where all their upgrades are at the time. I'm keenly interested in figuring this out as I level up my own guild such that it doesn't conflict with any of the other 4 I'm in.

Possible complicating factor... I do have a glyph of bounty loaded in my logging tool. Tomorrow I think I'll pull the glyph just to be sure that isn't having an unintended consequence on the results.

IIRC, you cannot harvest twice from synthesizers that share either: 1) the same synthesizer level or 2) the same guild hall. I don't think output counts as a different "level", so in your example GH#1 and #2 are the same for purposes of whether you get to gather both.

So in theory if you have 3 guilds - one with level 5 nodes in the PoF guild hall, one with level 4 nodes in the auric guild hall, and one with level 3 nodes in the lost precipice - I believe that you could gather from all of them. I have my main guild with fully upgraded stuff in PoF hall and my storage guild with level 3 in Lost precipice and can always gather from both.

[Funky.4861]

I have several guild in different instances and i can gather from every one of them.Lost precipice: tier 1 nodesGilded Hollow #1: tier 2 nodes + quantity upgradeWindswept Haven: tier 2 nodes + quantity upgradeGilded Hollow #2: tier 2 nodes + 2 quantity upgrades.

This wasn't always the case and i'm glad they changed it.

[anonymous.7812]

Well, this is just one of those bugs that Arenanet hasn't invested any time fixing. It should definitely just be 1 harvest across all guilds, regardless of upgrades and which Hall it is. There shouldn't be a reason to keep those synths low levels or have a diverse guild hall roster of guilds. Just as you can only harvest your home once a day, same should be for this.

Arenanet just hasn't bothered fixing it.

[Ayrilana.1396]

You can only use the resources in a GH location per day for a max of three. If you’re suggesting that there should not be a cap then no. This could promote doing a ML.

[Ol Nik.2518]

@thehipone.6812 said:

@"Skull Duggery.3192" said:RE: "If any of those guilds have invested materials and time in to acquiring the same the same level of Synthesis upgrade (the Wiki refers to "upgrades" which would include both Tier improvement and quantity improvement, however I discovered that it only applies to the same level of Synthesis), then harvesting in one Guild Hall NULLIFIES the ability to harvest in the other(s)."

I'm not sure that is wholly accurate. Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong but here is a specific example where node specific level versus synthesis level doesn't appear to be functioning in a consistent manner w/ regard to whether or not the node disappears from one hall to the next. GH#1: Lumber 1, Output 1 - GH#2: Lumber 1, Output 0. Unable to harvest from both guilds in a given day.

I think there are a couple of other exceptions which seem to refute any hard rule I try to formulate regarding the combination of node level and synth level. I've started tracking which guilds I harvest, in what order, and where all their upgrades are at the time. I'm keenly interested in figuring this out as I level up my own guild such that it doesn't conflict with any of the other 4 I'm in.

Possible complicating factor... I do have a glyph of bounty loaded in my logging tool. Tomorrow I think I'll pull the glyph just to be sure that isn't having an unintended consequence on the results.

IIRC, you cannot harvest twice from synthesizers that share either: 1) the same synthesizer level or 2) the same guild hall. I don't think output counts as a different "level", so in your example GH#1 and #2 are the same for purposes of whether you get to gather both.

So in theory if you have 3 guilds - one with level 5 nodes in the PoF guild hall, one with level 4 nodes in the auric guild hall, and one with level 3 nodes in the lost precipice - I believe that you could gather from all of them. I have my main guild with fully upgraded stuff in PoF hall and my storage guild with level 3 in Lost precipice and can always gather from both.

You can harvest from the nodes in the same guild hall if those nodes are not the same level: 2 of my guilds have guild halls in PoF and 2 have them in the same HoT location. I can harvest from all of them when the node levels are different.

[Ol Nik.2518]

If you are suggesting that we should be able to collect mats in every guild hall regardless of the node level (once per day per hall) I am with you. It makes no sense to pour all that gold into levelling a guild hall just to lose some of its functionality.

[Asian Invasion.8913]

I have a question in regard to this general topic of harvesting at Guild Halls. Is there a rep requirement for being able to use these nodes? Just a few weeks ago I would always harvest at two GH, but I would always only rep one guild. Now (as of writing this comment and past couple days) I go to a GH of a guild I do not ever represent (or very little) and the nodes are not there. Has something changed? I used to be able to harvest at two GH, now can only do 1.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@Asian Invasion.8913 said:I have a question in regard to this general topic of harvesting at Guild Halls. Is there a rep requirement for being able to use these nodes? Just a few weeks ago I would always harvest at two GH, but I would always only rep one guild. Now (as of writing this comment and past couple days) I go to a GH of a guild I do not ever represent (or very little) and the nodes are not there. Has something changed? I used to be able to harvest at two GH, now can only do 1.

The second Guild Hall may have upgraded their nodes to match the level of the first Guild Hall.

[Invisible Pete.7290]

So, just to be clear regarding this topic.

1. The level of the material synthesizer does not affect the ability to gather from multiple Guild Halls (e.g. Lumber 1 vs, Lumber 2).
2. What affects your ability to gather from multiple Guild Halls is the Synthesis Output level. A Workshop has up to 4 levels of Synthesis Output, which determines the quantity of materials that can be harvested. If two Guild Halls have upgraded the Workshop to the same Synthesis Output Level, then only one of them can be harvested (e.g. If both have the Synthesis Output 4). However, if one is Synthesis Output 4, and the other only has Synthesis Output 3, then both Guild Halls can be harvested.
3. Yes, I am suggesting that we should be able to harvest from every Guild Hall regardless of Synthesis Output level. As Guild Leader of three Guilds, and Guild Officer of a fourth, we have to remember not to fully upgrade three of the four guild's simply to maintain the distinct Output Synthesis levels. If I were to join a fifth guild, I would have to advocate not to have any Output Synthesis upgrades just to be able to do any harvesting there, and maintain my ability to harvest at other Guild Halls.

[Daien.9614]

On 8/8/2020 at 3:44 PM, Invisible Pete.7290 said:

What affects your ability to gather from multiple Guild Halls is the Synthesis Output level. A Workshop has up to 4 levels of Synthesis Output, which determines the quantity of materials that can be harvested. If two Guild Halls have upgraded the Workshop to the same Synthesis Output Level, then only one of them can be harvested (e.g. If both have the Synthesis Output 4). However, if one is Synthesis Output 4, and the other only has Synthesis Output 3, then both Guild Halls can be harvested.

This sucks.   Why punish guild for leveling their workshops up?  You should be able to gather materials from all the guilds  you are a member of.   This should be changed.

[mythical.6315]

What’s to stop players from guild hopping every day then?

[TwinFrozr.6214]

On 8/8/2020 at 10:44 PM, Invisible Pete.7290 said:

So, just to be clear regarding this topic.

1. The level of the material synthesizer does not affect the ability to gather from multiple Guild Halls (e.g. Lumber 1 vs, Lumber 2).
2. What affects your ability to gather from multiple Guild Halls is the Synthesis Output level. A Workshop has up to 4 levels of Synthesis Output, which determines the quantity of materials that can be harvested. If two Guild Halls have upgraded the Workshop to the same Synthesis Output Level, then only one of them can be harvested (e.g. If both have the Synthesis Output 4). However, if one is Synthesis Output 4, and the other only has Synthesis Output 3, then both Guild Halls can be harvested.

Is this verified somehow? Wanna be sure before irreversibly upgrading my 5000g hall... 

Edited September 28, 2021 by TwinFrozr.6214

[kharmin.7683]

On 9/25/2021 at 11:30 PM, Daien.9614 said:

This sucks.   Why punish guild for leveling their workshops up?  You should be able to gather materials from all the guilds  you are a member of.   This should be changed.

This is no different than home instances.  If players need more materials than what they can acquire from home and guild instances, then maybe they can actually go out into the world and gather them there?

[Jukhy.2431]

35 minutes ago, TwinFrozr.6214 said:

Is this verified somehow? Wanna be sure before irreversibly upgrading my 5000g hall... 

Well, it is said so on the notes in gathering section of the wiki.

This has been my experience as well. Currently four guilds I am in have fully upgraded nodes (one is new guild without nodes) and I can only gather one set of nodes per day. Before one of the guilds did not have fully upgraded ones and I was able to gather those as extra.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

1 hour ago, TwinFrozr.6214 said:

Is this verified somehow? Wanna be sure before irreversibly upgrading my 5000g hall... 

I have upgraded my nodes as high as possible but with Synthesizer T3 only. As a result I can farm the nodes in my own guildhall and in my main-guild, which has outmaxed nodes + Synthesizer T4. If you want to test it, check my signature. 

[TwinFrozr.6214]

19 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

I have upgraded my nodes as high as possible but with Synthesizer T3 only. As a result I can farm the nodes in my own guildhall and in my main-guild, which has outmaxed nodes + Synthesizer T4. If you want to test it, check my signature. 

Thank you both for input! 

[Daien.9614]

On 9/28/2021 at 8:22 AM, kharmin.7683 said:

This is no different than home instances.  If players need more materials than what they can acquire from home and guild instances, then maybe they can actually go out into the world and gather them there?

For lower level characters (Newer players), going to certain zones isn't that easy.    As far as this being the same as home instance, that's not something I've come across. I have been able to harvest nodes in several home instances without any issues.    
My basic complaint is that if you are active in several guilds, you should be able to gather from their nodes and not be punished because they have worked to level up their guild hall.

[kharmin.7683]

Newer players shouldn't require high end mats so going to higher zones shouldn't be an issue.

[Daien.9614]

23 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Newer players shouldn't require high end mats so going to higher zones shouldn't be an issue.

They are going to need them eventually, so why not get a bit of a head start if they can?
But again, the original point of my post is that you shouldn't be limited to only being able to gather items from one guild hall b/c the guild has leveled itself up.   Even if you have five guilds you can gather from you aren't going to get so many mats from them that you're going to be able to accomplish something impressive but it is nice to have a little bit of a boost.    And that's all I'm going to say about that.

[kharmin.7683]

So, you're advocating for limitless guild hall farming?  And this wouldn't adversely affect the economy?

[mindcircus.1506]

On 5/28/2019 at 3:10 AM, Invisible Pete.7290 said:

Guild Wars 2 was advertised as a "play as you want" style of MMORPG. If a player wants to spend time harvesting from multiple Guild Halls that they are contributing time to, I do not see the harm in allowing that. At the worst, they could spend time gathering in five different Guild Halls - without preventing each of those guilds from being able to fully level.

You are purposefully twisting the intent of "play as you want" to suit a context it was never intended for.
Why?

[Invisible Pete.7290]

Clarifications, part 2

Thanks for reading and commenting on this thread!

1. Home Instance vs. Guild Halls:

Home Instance (HI) - one chooses what upgrades one wants for one's HI and acquires them as necessary. If one wants to share one's HI with other players they may via the party system. Remains limited to a single gathering per day.

Guild Hall (GH) - A Guild develops its GH as it wishes by pooling resources (mats and gold), gathering to complete missions for Favor, and waiting for a sufficient quantity of Aetherium to become available. Upgrading a GH improves its reputation as it levels.

Currently, if a player's Guilds have the same Synthesis Output level, then that player may only gather from one of the GHs. Since a player may belong to a max of five Guilds, a player should be able to gather at up to five GHs regardless of Synthesis Output level.

Five is not limitless.

This would not break the economy, especially as the gathering results are random. Players looking for specific resources would be better off finding them in the game world.

 

2. "Play as you want" - pretty self-explanatory. Some will focus on PvE, some on WvW, and some on PvP or any combination thereof. Other things some players enjoy doing include crafting, trading, teaching/sharing, leading/directing, etc. Literally, play as one wants to play. No purposeful twisting involved, simply providing an example.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Invisible Pete.7290

[Rasimir.6239]

If I remember this correctly, the original idea was that people were only able to harvest guild hall nodes once per day, no matter how many guilds with guild halls they had access to. This apparently led to conflicts with the way the game normally checks/stores special nodes harvested that day (like sometimes you stumble upon a rich ore node that does not give you extra ores because once you start mining the game realizes that you already harvested a rich node on a different map instance the same day that is tied to the same daily bonus "slot").

In the beginning harvesting across different guilds/guild halls behaved pretty erratic. Sometimes it worked as advertised (meaning you could only harvest each synthesizer in one guild), other times it allowed multi harvesting where it wasn't supposed to. Eventually they settled upon "once per day per guild hall output tier" as that seemed to fit into the existing technical framework.

 

Tying the flag for daily harvesting to a specific guild rather than just "guild hall node x output level y" seems to be outside of the frame of the current data structure, and depending on the exact setup of the data structure might not be easy to implement. I suspect that back when the original tech was created that flagged resource nodes as available or used, nobody was thinking about nodes that were tied to something other than map, so they probably had to get creative to even fit the guild hall synthesizer system in.

 

Aside from possible technical problems with allowing harvesting in each guild daily, there's a couple of other points that make it unlikely that ANet will eventually change this. For one it would potentially multiply the database space necessary to store the information (right now it's four flags for each synthesizer, depending on output level, change this to guilds and it would multiply since you can harvest in any guild, not just those you are a member of), and as we know from former communications (back when material storage was expanded), database space is something ANet does not take lightly.

 

It could also lead to people farming guild halls, for example building a chain of people with access to different Vabbi guild halls to let people farm obsidian shards from mining each guild's hall one after another: It's a stupidly boring activity, but I've seen people do worse "farms" before, and somehow I don't think ANet would be comfortable enabling this kind of farm.