Drop In Population - Discussion - Suggestions

Newholiday.8103 · July 6, 2019

@ZhouX.8742 said:
@thepolishman.2348 said:
@bluri.2653 said:
@ZhouX.8742 said:
@"Caedmon.6798" said:Theres a learning curve in every mmo. I think Gw2 atm is just very unbalanced. When youre a new guy and you come into pvp against some meta guy that really knows how to roll his build its not gonna be a fun time. If that happens a few times the guy isn't even gonna bother anymore. Its hard for new players to actually "Learn how to pvp" when they dont get the chance to do so because they insta blow up or get cc locked to death and panic button. Dueling is the only way to learn that but thats locked behind a guild arena or closed servers with a pass. Give players the ability to learn their stuff atleast in some way because it seems impossible for new players to do so. Have to join a proper guild first and then find out if the ones in there ar really proper or not to teach you what you need to know. There needs to be an easier way in pvp to test and practice for new players. Golems and npc's aren't cutting it.

Don't get the chance to? Like any pvp game you need to learn, you're not expected to just go into a match and automatically win and get a pat on the back. It takes 1000's of duels per class to even garner a mastering of the mechanics , and that's against decent to good players let alone learning conquest mechanics on top of it.

We are in an age where there are so many videos deeply explaining class mechanics, matchup mechancs, what to do / what not to do in a conquest match , metabattle to get an overview of those very meta builds...

It's an overflow of information nowadays on every aspect of the game mode itself. It's up to

you

though if you want to take the time to actually put the work in to learn them, that's with any game's PvP environment though.

Casuals expect everything to be handed to them. Rewards, should be easy to play and force a 50% winratio!

I mean, you're not wrong, but your line of thinking is basically why there's a low population. When you're new and get absolutely destroyed in 2 seconds, it's not fun. No casual player is going to be watching videos and getting destroyed in hundreds of matches in the hopes of improving. That's hardcore pvper type stuff.

If you want population to improve, even a new player needs to have some chance of winning against an experienced player. It may only be a 1 in 10 chance, but there needs to at least be a chance. Imo, best way of getting there is to start by getting rid of all these bunker and insta-kill builds.

Hmm that's just PvP in general in every single game though. If you want progression you need to practice and get better.... It's not rocket science it's a very straight forward process. You might lose 50 times but it's about what you take from losing those 50 games and adjust based on that and I understand some games are just beyond saving due to matchmaking at times. The problem though is a lot of people just give up hope and stop trying to learn because they think the game mode is kitten based on 50-100 matches when this should be looked at differently.. I'm not going to deny the matchmaking is bad at times and that the game mode doesn't have faults , it does but I think in this respect it's not one of them.

When you're a baby and you learn to walk, you fall down what, 100+ times? Through that failure you eventually learn it through understanding mechanics and knowledge of using your legs and feet and build up a neurological connection to them until it becomes automated. What you're asking the community for is to essentially be picked up and carried over to the destination so they feel good about themselves without learning initial PvP mechanics.

How do they learn from that?

If we play PvE , we progress by leveling, farming and building up gold or whatever your goal is and improving your gear do you not? You get noticeable rewards for exploring and learning that content.

It's the same with PvP except most of that progression in our equalized PvP combat is through mechanics, knowledge of other classes, conquest mechanics, IQ of the game in general.

PvP is essentially the same as PvE you just learn strategies instead of get gear and as such it should be looked at the very same when approaching each game mode respectively. The problem is most people don't, they look at PvE as it should, but they feel PvP should be simple and straight forward like it's PvE counterpart without looking at it from a different mentality.

That PvP is comprised of roles, rotations, matchups, class IQ

Maybe , just maybe you're getting it mixed up like a lot of people in that

if you don't have the mentality to want to get better, that is not a fault on the game mode

and giving up on the game mode is generally not the answer because you most likely will do that in every PvP game and complain about every PvP game in general equally for that very reason. It's the people who understand PvP and know the stages of learning it that stick with it.

I don't know what to tell you dude. Again, I don't disagree with what you're saying. But if you want population to improve, you need to make it more casual friendly. Yes, that means some hand-holding. If you think population is fine with where it's at, then there's nothing to argue. If you want it to improve, making it more casual friendly is the best way to do that.

witcher.3197 · July 6, 2019

@thepolishman.2348 said:If you want population to improve, even a new player needs to have some chance of winning against an experienced player.

How? More random damage or passive procs to kill off anything good that's left in this game?

New players getting destroyed by experienced players is completely fine and should be the case.

New players getting matched with experienced players on the other hand should NEVER happen.

Problem is population's so low that this happens all the time, then they get destroyed by ex-ESL players 3 times in a row while doing their first ever placements and they leave without ever looking back which only accelerates the problem of low population.

Balance team destroyed the gamemode and nothing can fix it now. Telling them to ruin the balance even further will just chase away those who are still playing.

They dumbed the combat down to braindead levels to help casuals but because doing damage is so easy the whole thing backfired and the game is now LESS casual friendly.

Lucentfir.7430 · July 6, 2019

At this point all i can say is if Anet wants population to improve the way they should do it outside of just balancing, would be the following:

-Add 2v2s/3v3s Ranked and Unranked queue options-Make Conquest's queue mixed, and add the ability for full premades(Solo vs premades will be a thing)-Also ffs do something with Stronghold, make NPC spawns automated improve on it.

-Maybe--Add profession rating, but if someone swaps off of their chosen character for whatever reason as a premade group(party 2-4) they'll gain zero rating if the team wins and will still lose rating if they lose, but are able to still gain the reward pips of the ranked match.

They said they won't ever make 2v2 a permanent thing ever , but you also have to remember back in the day they said they'd never do mounts or raids. Now look to current day.. They went back on the their word and they're some of the best features about Gw2. The only other reason why I think they still won't add different game modes, is because Anet is afraid of completely killing conquest outright. It's their preferred main game mode for spvp they want to support and balance despite being 7 years old of stale.

Sizzle Hint.1820 · July 6, 2019

Re-installed the game after a one year break yesterday. Saw that they gutted D/P thief for whatever reason (just wow) so probably just going back to Lost Ark. gg Arenanet this honestly made me sad deep inside.

MithranArkanere.8957 · July 6, 2019

The game is just unfun for most players.
Nobody likes when they get killed in less than 3 seconds with a lockdown burst and then enemies run away and get healed by out of combat regeneration as a reward for their cowardice, or when someone goes straight from 10% HP to 100% with a single healing skill.
The pace is way too fast, with builds and resources resetting in less than 20s.

The only way to address this issue is a change of pace. And so we need to figure out ways to slow down the game without making it too slow.There's only so much that can be done with thorycrafting, so we need some actual practical data.So they should introduce a week event during off-season to test ways to achieve this. For example, during a week event they should do the following changes:

Reduce all damage to 1/3.
Reduce all healing to 1/5.
Introduce a "Critical damage proration" mechanic that decreases damage from stacked consecutive critical hits the more you are hit within a short time span. This is similar to how you take less and less damage from the hits in a combo in fighting games. The reason so many games implemented this measure because it allows impressive multi-hit visuals without introducing boorish deathly bursts tactics, allowing a fast animation pace without making fights too short. Other games use this for all damage, but GW2 should be fine having it just for critical damage.
Disable out of combat healing, and instead place a few 'healing fountains' objects in strategic places that heal 10K HP over 15-20s when used and go on recharge for 60-120s . Out of combat healing is great for PvE, but in competitive modes it should be removed as it allows restting back to full health too easily by disengaging and makes relentlessly chasing down enemies less rewarding.
Make stun breaks give 0.75s stun immunity. Not using a stun breaking skill, but the action of breaking out of stun. Giving players a small windon of time in which they can't be locked in stun again and can evade away. This makes stun breaking skills and traits more useful even if they do not come with stability, while punishing mindless CC spam making carefully timing one's CC much more valuable.

If we get a week event introducing changes less these to test during off-season, we'd be able to get enough data on what is solved by them, and what changes to make from that.

Equinox.1463 · July 7, 2019

@"MithranArkanere.8957" said:The game is just unfun for most players.
Nobody likes when they get killed in less than 3 seconds with a lockdown burst and then enemies run away and get healed by out of combat regeneration as a reward for their cowardice, or when someone goes straight from 10% HP to 100% with a single healing skill.
The pace is way too fast, with builds and resources resetting in less than 20s.
The only way to address this issue is a change of pace. And so we need to figure out ways to slow down the game without making it too slow.There's only so much that can be done with thorycrafting, so we need some actual practical data.So they should introduce a week event during off-season to test ways to achieve this. For example, during a week event they should do the following changes:
Reduce all damage to 1/3.
Reduce all healing to 1/5.
Introduce a "Critical damage proration" mechanic that decreases damage from stacked consecutive critical hits the more you are hit within a short time span. This is similar to how you take less and less damage from the hits in a combo in fighting games. The reason so many games implemented this measure because it allows impressive multi-hit visuals without introducing boorish deathly bursts tactics, allowing a fast animation pace without making fights too short. Other games use this for all damage, but GW2 should be fine having it just for critical damage.
Disable out of combat healing, and instead place a few 'healing fountains' objects in strategic places that heal 10K HP over 15-20s when used and go on recharge for 60-120s . Out of combat healing is great for PvE, but in competitive modes it should be removed as it allows restting back to full health too easily by disengaging and makes relentlessly chasing down enemies less rewarding.
Make stun breaks give 0.75s stun immunity. Not using a stun breaking skill, but the action of breaking out of stun. Giving players a small windon of time in which they can't be locked in stun again and can evade away. This makes stun breaking skills and traits more useful even if they do not come with stability, while punishing mindless CC spam making carefully timing one's CC much more valuable.
If we get a week event introducing changes less these to test during off-season, we'd be able to get enough data on what is solved by them, and what changes to make from that.Your suggestions are... I wouldn't call them good as there are a lot of flaws in them that would break the "Conquest feel" or the game's originality as an MMORPG, but they certainly are interesting. Although I must say, those healing and damage nerfs would just bring back the ESL chaos where nobody died (even with the reduced healing) because bunkers would rule the scene.

Ouk.5914 · July 7, 2019

@thepolishman.2348 said:
@ZhouX.8742 said:
@thepolishman.2348 said:
@bluri.2653 said:
@ZhouX.8742 said:
@"Caedmon.6798" said:Theres a learning curve in every mmo. I think Gw2 atm is just very unbalanced. When youre a new guy and you come into pvp against some meta guy that really knows how to roll his build its not gonna be a fun time. If that happens a few times the guy isn't even gonna bother anymore. Its hard for new players to actually "Learn how to pvp" when they dont get the chance to do so because they insta blow up or get cc locked to death and panic button. Dueling is the only way to learn that but thats locked behind a guild arena or closed servers with a pass. Give players the ability to learn their stuff atleast in some way because it seems impossible for new players to do so. Have to join a proper guild first and then find out if the ones in there ar really proper or not to teach you what you need to know. There needs to be an easier way in pvp to test and practice for new players. Golems and npc's aren't cutting it.