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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

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@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

To be honest I am trying to use @vyncius.6105 notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest...So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @vyncius.6105 idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :)

The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards.

Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on.

Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back.

Zealex is correct. In a Eurogamer article in 2011, Colin Johanson referred to explorable dungeons as...

"Eurogamer: The hardest content in the game, then, is the five-man dungeons?

Colin Johanson: Correct. There are two versions of every dungeon: a story mode that you do first... that's pick-up group friendly. It's much easier and fun content that has a lot of cinematics in and tells a fun story. And when you finish the story dungeon, you unlock an explorable dungeon. And the explorable dungeon tells the story of what happens after you completed the story dungeon.

That is the most difficult content in our game, our explorable dungeons. They're very, very hard. And they're actually really unique when you look at traditional MMO raids. In Guild Wars 2, every time you load into one of our explorable dungeons you actually get to vote on what path you want to take through the dungeon, and there is a minimum of three paths through the dungeon, and each path is completely different and unique. You can play a dungeon over and over and experience it in different ways."

and

"Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot - will we be farming bosses?

Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It's all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions - a lot of that is still up in the air and we'll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons -
the raids
." [emphasis mine]

I don't see any contradiction there though ... dungeons being the hardest content in the game doesn't mean that they were hardcore content. As a matter of fact, it didn't take long at all for highly capable MMO gamers to solo them. Considering the market this game targets (and still targets), dungeons were hard content at that time and Anet didn't ever sell the game under the premise that it was full of content for hardcore players or at all. Actually, if you exclude the people this game wasn't meant for, it all makes sense. It's all very congruent with how the game was sold to us and what we experienced in it.

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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally.

To be honest I am trying to use @vyncius.6105 notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest...So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @vyncius.6105 idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :)

The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards.

Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on.

Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back.

But they weren't marketed as the mainstay of the game, dynamic events were. When you went to cons, they talked very little by percentage of time about dungeons and talked quite a bit about dynamic events and personal story. I knew going in, just from listening, that the game would be about a "living breathing world" because that's what Anet spent most of their time talking about.

Obviously that world could have been amazingly hard, but they were talking about dynamic events being what the game was about. Their example of an end game zone at launch was Orr and it was pretty hard. Hard enough for people to complain and get nerfed. Yet it was still zergable by casuals if you didn't want to solo it. If you were already programmed by other MMOs the dungeons were important, sure you focused more on them. I was always hoping for an open world game, and that's what I got, and it was what I expected from how the game was sold.

Were dynamic events marketed as easy content? What i remember was that dynamic events were the content that players would group up for, tranditionally group content has been more demanding content and casual plays is usually, not always, but usually solo oriented.

Plus i suspect dynamic events got more attention could possibly be because as a concept were quite new if not an entirely new thing. If i were a dev i would totaly advertise something unique about my game too.

Honestly, I don't think Anet ever used the qualifiers 'easy' or 'hard' to market this game to people. It was more about the what they said than how they said it that gave the impression for who this game was targetting.

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zealex.9410

zealex.9410

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@Obtena.7952 said:

To be honest I am trying to use @vyncius.6105 notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest...So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @vyncius.6105 idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :)

The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards.

Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on.

Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back.

Zealex is correct. In a Eurogamer article in 2011, Colin Johanson referred to explorable dungeons as...

"Eurogamer: The hardest content in the game, then, is the five-man dungeons?

Colin Johanson: Correct. There are two versions of every dungeon: a story mode that you do first... that's pick-up group friendly. It's much easier and fun content that has a lot of cinematics in and tells a fun story. And when you finish the story dungeon, you unlock an explorable dungeon. And the explorable dungeon tells the story of what happens after you completed the story dungeon.

That is the most difficult content in our game, our explorable dungeons. They're very, very hard. And they're actually really unique when you look at traditional MMO raids. In Guild Wars 2, every time you load into one of our explorable dungeons you actually get to vote on what path you want to take through the dungeon, and there is a minimum of three paths through the dungeon, and each path is completely different and unique. You can play a dungeon over and over and experience it in different ways."

and

"Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot - will we be farming bosses?

Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It's all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions - a lot of that is still up in the air and we'll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons -
the raids
." [emphasis mine]

I don't see any contradiction there though ... dungeons being the hardest content in the game doesn't mean that they were hardcore content. As a matter of fact, it didn't take long at all for highly capable MMO gamers to solo them. Considering the market this game targets (and still targets), dungeons were hard content at that time and Anet didn't ever sell the game under the premise that it was full of content for hardcore players or at all. Actually, if you exclude the people this game wasn't meant for, it all makes sense. It's all very congruent with how the game was sold to us and what we experienced in it.

Its clearly a case of anet overestimating the dificulty of the content, as they protrayed it as very hard and pug unfriendly yet it didnt really meet those expectations.

Outside of that the game was merketed as a game you wouldnt grind, your gear would never be invalidated, a game that you could play parts of solo but group up for others.

If i were to say what presents this game as a casual friendly game that would be the solo friendly nature, not the dificulty.

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zealex.9410

zealex.9410

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally.

To be honest I am trying to use @vyncius.6105 notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest...So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @vyncius.6105 idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :)

The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards.

Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on.

Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back.

But they weren't marketed as the mainstay of the game, dynamic events were. When you went to cons, they talked very little by percentage of time about dungeons and talked quite a bit about dynamic events and personal story. I knew going in, just from listening, that the game would be about a "living breathing world" because that's what Anet spent most of their time talking about.

Obviously that world could have been amazingly hard, but they were talking about dynamic events being what the game was about. Their example of an end game zone at launch was Orr and it was pretty hard. Hard enough for people to complain and get nerfed. Yet it was still zergable by casuals if you didn't want to solo it. If you were already programmed by other MMOs the dungeons were important, sure you focused more on them. I was always hoping for an open world game, and that's what I got, and it was what I expected from how the game was sold.

Were dynamic events marketed as easy content? What i remember was that dynamic events were the content that players would group up for, tranditionally group content has been more demanding content and casual plays is usually, not always, but usually solo oriented.

Plus i suspect dynamic events got more attention could possibly be because as a concept were quite new if not an entirely new thing. If i were a dev i would totaly advertise something unique about my game too.

Honestly, I don't think Anet ever used the qualifiers 'easy' or 'hard' to market this game to people. It was more about the what they said than how they said it that gave the impression for who this game was targetting.

It was solo friendly, more so than the rest, that doesnt mean it was supposed to be easier or harder than the rest.

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Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally.

To be honest I am trying to use @vyncius.6105 notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest...So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @vyncius.6105 idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :)

The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards.

Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on.

Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back.

But they weren't marketed as the mainstay of the game, dynamic events were. When you went to cons, they talked very little by percentage of time about dungeons and talked quite a bit about dynamic events and personal story. I knew going in, just from listening, that the game would be about a "living breathing world" because that's what Anet spent most of their time talking about.

Obviously that world could have been amazingly hard, but they were talking about dynamic events being what the game was about. Their example of an end game zone at launch was Orr and it was pretty hard. Hard enough for people to complain and get nerfed. Yet it was still zergable by casuals if you didn't want to solo it. If you were already programmed by other MMOs the dungeons were important, sure you focused more on them. I was always hoping for an open world game, and that's what I got, and it was what I expected from how the game was sold.

Were dynamic events marketed as easy content? What i remember was that dynamic events were the content that players would group up for, tranditionally group content has been more demanding content and casual plays is usually, not always, but usually solo oriented.

Plus i suspect dynamic events got more attention could possibly be because as a concept were quite new if not an entirely new thing. If i were a dev i would totaly advertise something unique about my game too.

No but they were marketed as content that is in the open world, which in most people's minds would have been more casual. You play any MMO and there are raids and open world for PvE and dungeons obviously and open world is always the most casual of that. And they definitely weren't marketed as challenging content, so much as a living world. I got the impression, wrong or rightly, that the focus was on immersion rather than difficulty.

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Bloodstealer.5978

Bloodstealer.5978

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally.

To be honest I am trying to use @vyncius.6105 notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest...So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @vyncius.6105 idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :)

The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards.

Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on.

Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back.

But they weren't marketed as the mainstay of the game, dynamic events were. When you went to cons, they talked very little by percentage of time about dungeons and talked quite a bit about dynamic events and personal story. I knew going in, just from listening, that the game would be about a "living breathing world" because that's what Anet spent most of their time talking about.

Obviously that world could have been amazingly hard, but they were talking about dynamic events being what the game was about. Their example of an end game zone at launch was Orr and it was pretty hard. Hard enough for people to complain and get nerfed. Yet it was still zergable by casuals if you didn't want to solo it. If you were already programmed by other MMOs the dungeons were important, sure you focused more on them. I was always hoping for an open world game, and that's what I got, and it was what I expected from how the game was sold.

Were dynamic events marketed as easy content? What i remember was that dynamic events were the content that players would group up for, tranditionally group content has been more demanding content and casual plays is usually, not always, but usually solo oriented.

Plus i suspect dynamic events got more attention could possibly be because as a concept were quite new if not an entirely new thing. If i were a dev i would totaly advertise something unique about my game too.

Honestly, I don't think Anet ever used the qualifiers 'easy' or 'hard' to market this game to people. It was more about the what they said than how they said it that gave the impression for who this game was targetting.

It was solo friendly, more so than the rest, that doesnt mean it was supposed to be easier or harder than the rest.

The primary focus was it dynamic openworld, which was charged with not forcing the need for players to group up so yes it was marketed very solo friendly tbh..

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Donari.5237

Donari.5237

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Remember that Colin was an exciting spokesman for the game, he had infectious enthusiasm and he happily proclaimed many things that, sadly, did not work out in the end yet had everyone very hyped. But also remember that the dungeons actually were hard for people at the very beginning, before GW2's techniques got ingrained and gear got so easy to collect and professions got elites. I was in a guild in WoW that raided pretty successfully. Not world firsts, but we chewed the glass and got through current raid content fairly well. I'd been WoW raiding for years, both as DPS and heals. And then my guild, including several of those raiders, hit Caudecus Manor Explorable for the first time, at level, and we wiped for over two hours on Butler path. We had a ton of fun doing it, too, it felt so fantastic when we finally beat it.

Fast forward a bit and I'm leading newbie pugs on fast and easy butler path runs and yeah, it got very easy. Yet at the start, back when Colin was talking about the dungeons as hard content? They were.

Now as to ANet's recent silence after a spurt of engagement, yes, that saddens me. It hasn't been complete silence, they have shown up on the forums, they have announced things like next week's Boss Rush part two, but it doesn't feel as open as just a month or two ago. On the other hand, they have a history of going mostly dark before a big surprise release, they really like to see us squee over the gifts as we get them rather than microanalyze them into the ground weeks in advance of actually seeing them. So I can hope this current dearth of the level of posting they reached before is because they are working very hard on the new stuff pending.

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zealex.9410

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@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally.

To be honest I am trying to use @vyncius.6105 notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest...So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @vyncius.6105 idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :)

The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards.

Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on.

Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back.

But they weren't marketed as the mainstay of the game, dynamic events were. When you went to cons, they talked very little by percentage of time about dungeons and talked quite a bit about dynamic events and personal story. I knew going in, just from listening, that the game would be about a "living breathing world" because that's what Anet spent most of their time talking about.

Obviously that world could have been amazingly hard, but they were talking about dynamic events being what the game was about. Their example of an end game zone at launch was Orr and it was pretty hard. Hard enough for people to complain and get nerfed. Yet it was still zergable by casuals if you didn't want to solo it. If you were already programmed by other MMOs the dungeons were important, sure you focused more on them. I was always hoping for an open world game, and that's what I got, and it was what I expected from how the game was sold.

Were dynamic events marketed as easy content? What i remember was that dynamic events were the content that players would group up for, tranditionally group content has been more demanding content and casual plays is usually, not always, but usually solo oriented.

Plus i suspect dynamic events got more attention could possibly be because as a concept were quite new if not an entirely new thing. If i were a dev i would totaly advertise something unique about my game too.

Honestly, I don't think Anet ever used the qualifiers 'easy' or 'hard' to market this game to people. It was more about the what they said than how they said it that gave the impression for who this game was targetting.

It was solo friendly, more so than the rest, that doesnt mean it was supposed to be easier or harder than the rest.

The primary focus was it dynamic openworld, which was charged with not forcing the need for players to group up so yes it was marketed very solo friendly tbh..

Was it? I remember them writing that in general for the events that would pop up in the world u were expected to tackle those with other players. The rest was solo friendly idd.

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Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally.

To be honest I am trying to use @vyncius.6105 notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest...So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @vyncius.6105 idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :)

The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards.

Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on.

Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back.

But they weren't marketed as the mainstay of the game, dynamic events were. When you went to cons, they talked very little by percentage of time about dungeons and talked quite a bit about dynamic events and personal story. I knew going in, just from listening, that the game would be about a "living breathing world" because that's what Anet spent most of their time talking about.

Obviously that world could have been amazingly hard, but they were talking about dynamic events being what the game was about. Their example of an end game zone at launch was Orr and it was pretty hard. Hard enough for people to complain and get nerfed. Yet it was still zergable by casuals if you didn't want to solo it. If you were already programmed by other MMOs the dungeons were important, sure you focused more on them. I was always hoping for an open world game, and that's what I got, and it was what I expected from how the game was sold.

Were dynamic events marketed as easy content? What i remember was that dynamic events were the content that players would group up for, tranditionally group content has been more demanding content and casual plays is usually, not always, but usually solo oriented.

Plus i suspect dynamic events got more attention could possibly be because as a concept were quite new if not an entirely new thing. If i were a dev i would totaly advertise something unique about my game too.

Honestly, I don't think Anet ever used the qualifiers 'easy' or 'hard' to market this game to people. It was more about the what they said than how they said it that gave the impression for who this game was targetting.

It was solo friendly, more so than the rest, that doesnt mean it was supposed to be easier or harder than the rest.

The primary focus was it dynamic openworld, which was charged with not forcing the need for players to group up so yes it was marketed very solo friendly tbh..

Was it? I remember them writing that in general for the events that would pop up in the world u were expected to tackle those with other players. The rest was solo friendly idd.

They did say you don't have to group up to do them, so it didn't look like it required a massive amount of coordination. The demo they ran first was the shatterer, which wasn't that hard back then. Admittedly this was at a convention it would have had to be easy since no one had the ability to play the game and Anet never used the word easy but it doesn't change the fact that most MMOs including Guild Wars 2 have more difficulty in instances and less in the open world over all.

More to the point, perhaps, for the first 3.5 years the game came out, the complaints were of no end game and the game is too easy, so the game filtered out a lot of the hard core players early on and it was doing fine on pretty much casuals. When HoT was introduced, part of the backlash was that it was a casual game, because you never had to run a dungeon or fractal to do anything except get a legendary weapon. Beyond that, you could get best in slot gear just from the open world, and that made it a casual game anyway. I can't tell you the number of people in my guild who either never set foot in a dungeon or fractal or just did the bare minimum of them that they needed just to get something they wanted, often complaining about the need to group up to get stuff. It's another world out there. lol

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Burnfall.9573

Burnfall.9573

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@Donari.5237 said:Remember that Colin was an exciting spokesman for the game, he had infectious enthusiasm and he happily proclaimed many things that, sadly, did not work out in the end yet had everyone very hyped. But also remember that the dungeons actually were hard for people at the very beginning, before GW2's techniques got ingrained and gear got so easy to collect and professions got elites. I was in a guild in WoW that raided pretty successfully. Not world firsts, but we chewed the glass and got through current raid content fairly well. I'd been WoW raiding for years, both as DPS and heals. And then my guild, including several of those raiders, hit Caudecus Manor Explorable for the first time, at level, and we wiped for over two hours on Butler path. We had a ton of fun doing it, too, it felt so fantastic when we finally beat it.

Fast forward a bit and I'm leading newbie pugs on fast and easy butler path runs and yeah, it got very easy. Yet at the start, back when Colin was talking about the dungeons as hard content? They were.

Now as to ANet's recent silence after a spurt of engagement, yes, that saddens me. It hasn't been complete silence, they have shown up on the forums, they have announced things like next week's Boss Rush part two, but it doesn't feel as open as just a month or two ago. On the other hand, they have a history of going mostly dark before a big surprise release, they really like to see us squee over the gifts as we get them rather than microanalyze them into the ground weeks in advance of actually seeing them. So I can hope this current dearth of the level of posting they reached before is because they are working very hard on the new stuff pending.

+1

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Vayne.8563

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Donari.5237 said:Remember that Colin was an exciting spokesman for the game, he had infectious enthusiasm and he happily proclaimed many things that, sadly, did not work out in the end yet had everyone very hyped. But also remember that the dungeons actually
were
hard for people at the very beginning, before GW2's techniques got ingrained and gear got so easy to collect and professions got elites. I was in a guild in WoW that raided pretty successfully. Not world firsts, but we chewed the glass and got through current raid content fairly well. I'd been WoW raiding for years, both as DPS and heals. And then my guild, including several of those raiders, hit Caudecus Manor Explorable for the first time, at level, and we wiped for over two hours on Butler path. We had a ton of fun doing it, too, it felt so fantastic when we finally beat it.

Fast forward a bit and I'm leading newbie pugs on fast and easy butler path runs and yeah, it got very easy. Yet at the start, back when Colin was talking about the dungeons as hard content?
They were.

Now as to ANet's recent silence after a spurt of engagement, yes, that saddens me. It hasn't been complete silence, they have shown up on the forums, they have announced things like next week's Boss Rush part two, but it doesn't feel as open as just a month or two ago. On the other hand, they have a history of going mostly dark before a big surprise release, they really like to see us squee over the gifts as we get them rather than microanalyze them into the ground weeks in advance of actually seeing them. So I can hope this current dearth of the level of posting they reached before is because they are working very hard on the new stuff pending.

+1

@Donari.5237 said:Remember that Colin was an exciting spokesman for the game, he had infectious enthusiasm and he happily proclaimed many things that, sadly, did not work out in the end yet had everyone very hyped. But also remember that the dungeons actually
were
hard for people at the very beginning, before GW2's techniques got ingrained and gear got so easy to collect and professions got elites. I was in a guild in WoW that raided pretty successfully. Not world firsts, but we chewed the glass and got through current raid content fairly well. I'd been WoW raiding for years, both as DPS and heals. And then my guild, including several of those raiders, hit Caudecus Manor Explorable for the first time, at level, and we wiped for over two hours on Butler path. We had a ton of fun doing it, too, it felt so fantastic when we finally beat it.

Fast forward a bit and I'm leading newbie pugs on fast and easy butler path runs and yeah, it got very easy. Yet at the start, back when Colin was talking about the dungeons as hard content?
They were.

Now as to ANet's recent silence after a spurt of engagement, yes, that saddens me. It hasn't been complete silence, they have shown up on the forums, they have announced things like next week's Boss Rush part two, but it doesn't feel as open as just a month or two ago. On the other hand, they have a history of going mostly dark before a big surprise release, they really like to see us squee over the gifts as we get them rather than microanalyze them into the ground weeks in advance of actually seeing them. So I can hope this current dearth of the level of posting they reached before is because they are working very hard on the new stuff pending.

+1

But in other games, dungeons are required for progression and here they weren't. This game didn't have a main story line like Rift that took you through every dungeon. The only dungeon you had to do at launch was the story mode of Arah and even that got complained about and eventually changed. Do you have any idea of how many people did dungeons or cared about dungeons, or ran dungeons regularly, because I'm guessing it was a very very small segment of the population. Not because they were hard...but because there was so much to do for casual people in the open world, more than any other game I've ever played.

Most games open worlds were for leveling pretty much excluivsely, and they added stuff like faction farming or dailies just to give people stuff to do. This game had downleveling. It wasn't just quest hubs, where you do the hub and move on. Events repeated and you could do them endlessly. For every person spamming dungeons to level, there were probably a bunch of them running the Queensdale champ train and never leaving the 1-15 zones.

Even before champ bags were a thing, people could level to 80 without ever leaving a 1-15 zone, which isn't that easy in most games, if it's possible at all. This game was designed, intentionally in my opinion, to appeal to casuals. And more on that, when the NPE came out, they made the open world even simpler.

Seems like the design goal of the game was to give everyone the ability to get all the way to the last zones and max level by hitting 1. You could do it faster by hitting more keys, but you didn't have to. This is again, why HoT was so vilified by the casual community. It was too hard, too complex, I have to learn my foes, I have to learn my class. I never had to do this before. If people can't see that this game was designed with a casual mindset, I'm not sure what to tell them. What in this game propelled someone to have to do dungeons?

Take Rift. One main quest line in the game and that quest line took you to every single dungeon and ended in a raid. If you wanted to get best in slot gear, at least when I played, you had to raid, period. That was how it worked. It was like that for a long time in WoW too, though I'm not sure that's still the case. In this game, BIS gear at launch was a matter of farming karma or gold, which wasn't that hard and didn't take that long. I don't think most people ran dungeons to gear up, even though you could.

Just because something exists in a game, doesn't make it the focus of the game.

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maddoctor.2738

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@Vayne.8563 said:Seems like the design goal of the game was to give everyone the ability to get all the way to the last zones and max level by hitting 1. You could do it faster by hitting more keys, but you didn't have to. This is again, why HoT was so vilified by the casual community. It was too hard, too complex, I have to learn my foes, I have to learn my class. I never had to do this before.

There were more than enough hard encounters, that required you to learn your foes and learn your build, during both season 1 and season 2. Players that successfully completed those shouldn't have an issue with the difficulty of Heart of Thorns. In fact when the expansion was released, Anet nerfed many old mobs, Mordrem Thrashers and Mordrem Wolves were completely butchered with the release of HoT, to make older maps look so much more friendly than they actually were. I think that the long period of farming Dry Top and Silverwastes by pressing 1 on the keyboard is what ruined Heart of Thorns. Players became idiots and came to expect everything to be handed to them in the same way. A little bit of extra difficulty and boom complaints on the forums.

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Dami.5046

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@Zexanima.7851 said:Their lack of communication is a detriment to the game and is a good chunk of the reason my friends and I no longer play. This isn't likely to change either which is sad because at it's base I do enjoy the game.

But you still post on the forums?Look at the demands people are throwing at them. Then think why they are keeping quiet.This forum is hardly the welcome wagon.The demands and reasons for these demands from the skill nerfs, to the skyscale to this saying that if things don't change people have/will quit is preposterous. Totally and utterly preposterous. And if you want a cool word, lameIt is past trolling and flaming.

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Bloodstealer.5978

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:You probably should not lump all 'veteran' players into the same group. Many of us are 'veterans', and still have plenty to entertain us.

we are probably different veteran players. I am hardcore and you are probably casual.

What a silly differentiation... what makes your "hard-core "any more important than the "casual"...What makes you hard-core? The amount of time you play, how much gold you have acquired, how much real coin you spend or how awesome sauce you think yourself to be over others. Or is it cos you can speedrun a raid or dungeon or fractal a few seconds quicker than the next player.Yeah your veteran is worth so much more than my veteran status so ANET should panda to your silly season notions....

I dont think I am better than you or any other casual.But all the content I like to play is dead or too easy or just doesnt get enough content to keep me interested.I have over 800 LI, more than 200 fractal cm kp's. I've started playing WvW alot this year, but balance is awful and way too boring.I never enjoyed sPvP, because of balance issues, ive done my backpack and left.

This is how my guild feels like, mainly we are raiding guild, but no one is really playing anymore, not because its summer (I see ppl are online in discord), but simply because we have nothing to do.

You never answered the question.. what makes you hard-core??

Someone who plays video games as a primary hobby. They tend to spend large amounts of time playing games, often in excess of two or three hours a day.

Ive played only gw2, all modes, speedrunning raids etc... but not anymore

So... self defined and kinda meanigless then as I thought, but ANET must bend to your demands else it's all just a dead donkey of a game - makes sense

Don't be such a hater, everyone has a right to complain. Some youtube content creators/streamers are quiting the game, because game is going full casual mode w/o any balanced, challenging. more frequant content.You people are complaining all the time how hard is that or this, how long it takes to get skyscale, how long it takes to get Vision, etc...We just want more frequent balance updates, more challenging raids (atleast harder cm's. VG is harder than wing 7 cm's), MORE RAIDS ATLEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS (it can be atleast 2 raid encounters), more fractal cm's (99 cm is just the best thing in this game). Fix WvW.

Lol why hater... you are just giving us a wish list of your demands for content... that is not what this thread is about... there are other threads better suited.BTW NEWSFLASH - GW2 was never marketed to be a hard-core raiding game they provided element later to cater for thosecwanting it and actually I think they have delivered it pretty well without pushing it down the mouths of the larger parts of the games community. Perhaps you just chose the wrong game to satisfy that self proclaimed hard-core gamer tag.... but I digress, this is about communication and what are the plans for the game longer term beyond what is already known.

Hardcore raoding mmo? No, but it wasnt either advertised as a casual game, it always catered to both.

Maybe so. But it didn't launch with raids and that was a selling point for me personally.

To be honest I am trying to use @vyncius.6105 notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest...So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @vyncius.6105 idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :)

The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards.

Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on.

Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back.

But they weren't marketed as the mainstay of the game, dynamic events were. When you went to cons, they talked very little by percentage of time about dungeons and talked quite a bit about dynamic events and personal story. I knew going in, just from listening, that the game would be about a "living breathing world" because that's what Anet spent most of their time talking about.

Obviously that world could have been amazingly hard, but they were talking about dynamic events being what the game was about. Their example of an end game zone at launch was Orr and it was pretty hard. Hard enough for people to complain and get nerfed. Yet it was still zergable by casuals if you didn't want to solo it. If you were already programmed by other MMOs the dungeons were important, sure you focused more on them. I was always hoping for an open world game, and that's what I got, and it was what I expected from how the game was sold.

Were dynamic events marketed as easy content? What i remember was that dynamic events were the content that players would group up for, tranditionally group content has been more demanding content and casual plays is usually, not always, but usually solo oriented.

Plus i suspect dynamic events got more attention could possibly be because as a concept were quite new if not an entirely new thing. If i were a dev i would totaly advertise something unique about my game too.

Honestly, I don't think Anet ever used the qualifiers 'easy' or 'hard' to market this game to people. It was more about the what they said than how they said it that gave the impression for who this game was targetting.

It was solo friendly, more so than the rest, that doesnt mean it was supposed to be easier or harder than the rest.

The primary focus was it dynamic openworld, which was charged with not forcing the need for players to group up so yes it was marketed very solo friendly tbh..

Was it? I remember them writing that in general for the events that would pop up in the world u were expected to tackle those with other players. The rest was solo friendly idd.

I seem to remember they even emphasised how players could cooperate in events both large and small around the open world, but without the need to group .. or something along those lines..... but again we're moving off in a tangent away from what this thread is primarily focused on communication going forward.

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Zeike.7469

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Coming from a WoW Community which is far from perfect, the communication from developers to community is poor in Anet, coming from someone who's recently coming back to the game. Theres many things that can be done to improve but without real knowledge of their business structure I can only really suggest a spokesperson or two to go over upcoming changes. Long term is something that they should do very briefly, things change.. and I get that. Sadly getting hyped for things you get told about and being dissapointed is a Blizzard speciality. But going over the content like "Whats coming in Tyria this month!" not giving too much details if they don't need and making sure that what is coming up, actually hits the game. That should start giving reassurance to the community and build on trust. Improvements from their on can obviously be worked on. It's not a short term fix but if the game has a future, and which I really hope it does because it's a beautiful game.. then this should be something that will help, growing a healthy bond between community and game devs.

Having recently stopped WoW completely and only investing my time in Guild Wars 2 and single player games here and there, I've got plenty of content. But I'm just catching up, and compared to the people who have played this game continuously since release, I can imagine the silence from Anet would be a worry to many. However in terms of content and what I've seen it's been pretty stable, compared to other MMO's. Taking into account that there a no subscription based MMORPG. If they can communicate this better to their player base things should start to look up in my opinion.

@Dami.5046 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:Their lack of communication is a detriment to the game and is a good chunk of the reason my friends and I no longer play. This isn't likely to change either which is sad because at it's base I do enjoy the game.

But you still post on the forums?Look at the demands people are throwing at them. Then think why they are keeping quiet.This forum is hardly the welcome wagon.The demands and reasons for these demands from the skill nerfs, to the skyscale to this saying that if things don't change people have/will quit is preposterous. Totally and utterly preposterous. And if you want a cool word,
lame
It is past trolling and flaming.

And regarding this.. I agree forums are not welcoming, there is a lot of negativity. Forums are for discussion, not for hate throwing. Often you'll find many hating or just down right rude to devs or even other players, without putting their thoughts in a clear constructive manner that can be discussed civilly. Demanding things of the Dev's isn't the best way because if they cave to those demands people will just do it more. Theres a balance, and it needs to be as constructive as possible. These types of games are shaped by the players just as well as the Dev's.

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Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I'm not sure why players are expecting information on content that would be released a year to 2 years from now (what's coming after Season 5). Other than (Core) Guild Wars 2 has ArenaNet ever announced their plans so far in advance?

Yes. Before HoT launch they did mention there will be more expacs than one. The first definite mentions about season 5 were a year ago as well (so, since ls5 is not in yet, at least over a year in advance). Notice, by the way, that since then we didn't get any further updates on story content at all, and that S4 ended up cleanly, without any hints about future content, which wasn't the case since the core personal story -> LS1 transition. For nearly 7 years we've had the situation where an ending of a story arc (be it LS season, or expac story) teased what will come next. And now, suddenly, we're left with nothing.It's not surprising it makes many people worried.

@Vayne.8563 said:So what if Anet is trying stuff with Season 5 to see if they can do it, or we'd like it, and they can't decide exactly where to go from there, because they don't yet know our reaction to it? It's just so amorphous.Then we're in big trouble, because it would mean there would be a massive content drought after season 5. They can't start developing content that will come after s5 only after s5 - the development cycle is way too long for that (from what we've seen and heard so far it's over 2 years for an expac, and ~6 months for LS chapter - the second is the reason why they had two LS teams working in parallel). They do have to start it way before it will get launched.

It might have been reasonable to use season 5 as a sounding board for what comes after expac 3, for example, but not for using it to decide whether we should get expac 3 or season 6. They really need to know the answer for that one already - because if they aren't doing expac 3 right now, for example, they won't have the option to choose when the time comes.

Stephen King, when he writes, compared his writing to excavating a dinosaur. Piers Anthony outlines every single detail and rarely changes anything. When Piers Anthony submits an outline to a publisher, the book they get precisely matches the outline. The same can't be said for Stephen King, who like many creative people (including myself) discover as they go. There are advantages and disadvantages to doing it both ways.True, but you don't start writing that book a week before it's going to get published. And that's what you suggest Anet's doing right now.

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Vayne.8563

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I'm not sure why players are expecting information on content that would be released a year to 2 years from now (what's coming after Season 5). Other than (Core) Guild Wars 2 has ArenaNet ever announced their plans so far in advance?

Yes. Before HoT launch they did mention there will be more expacs than one. The first definite mentions about season 5 were a year ago as well (so, since ls5 is not in yet, at least over a year in advance). Notice, by the way, that since then we didn't get any further updates on story content at all, and that S4 ended up cleanly, without any hints about future content, which wasn't the case since the core personal story -> LS1 transition. For nearly 7 years we've had the situation where an ending of a story arc (be it LS season, or expac story) teased what will come next. And now, suddenly, we're left with nothing.It's not surprising it makes many people worried.

@Vayne.8563 said:So what if Anet is trying stuff with Season 5 to see if they can do it, or we'd like it, and they can't decide exactly where to go from there, because they don't yet know our reaction to it? It's just so amorphous.Then we're in big trouble, because it would mean there would be a massive content drought after season 5. They can't start developing content that will come after s5 only after s5 - the development cycle is way too long for that (from what we've seen and heard so far it's over 2 years for an expac, and ~6 months for LS chapter - the second is the reason why they had two LS teams working in parallel). They do have to start it way before it will get launched.

It might have been reasonable to use season 5 as a sounding board for what comes after expac 3, for example, but not for using it to decide whether we should get expac 3 or season 6. They really need to know the answer for that one already - because if they aren't doing expac 3 right now, for example, they
won't have the option to choose
when the time comes.

Stephen King, when he writes, compared his writing to excavating a dinosaur. Piers Anthony outlines every single detail and rarely changes anything. When Piers Anthony submits an outline to a publisher, the book they get precisely matches the outline. The same can't be said for Stephen King, who like many creative people (including myself) discover as they go. There are advantages and disadvantages to doing it both ways.True, but you don't start writing that book a week before it's going to get published. And that's what you suggest Anet's doing right now.

Actually before HoT was announced no one knew if we'd get an expansion or not , though. There were endless arguments about it. Until they were ready to announce that expansion, it felt like every other post on the forum was about people not staying with the game if they didn't have an expansion. We didn't know. I thought there would be one and posted about it pretty often. Other people called me a blind fan boi and said the game was dying and in maintainence mode. Then Anet announced the expansion, I think it was at Pax East and suddenly everything turned around.

We didn't at that time know there would be more than one expansion, but the only time Anet ever mentioned expansions before that reveal was to say they didn't plan on any expansions, and that they wanted to continue forward with the living world. NcSoft, conversely kept talking about expansions at their stock calls. At the end of the day, Anet could say there's going to eventually be an expansion, the game could slow down and suddenly NcSoft pulls the plugs and then they're just liars, right? They simply can't predict that far into the future. They can plan for lots of stuff, but that doesn't mean it's going to eventuate.

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maddoctor.2738

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@"Vayne.8563" said:Then Anet announced the expansion, I think it was at Pax East and suddenly everything turned around.

Heart of Thorns was officially announced in January 2015, 9 months before the actual release:

Also, it was revealed at the end of Season 2 (last episode released 1 day before the above video) that we are getting an expansion.

We didn't at that time know there would be more than one expansion

At that time no. But it was revealed by MO during an AMA that we are getting a second expansion. That AMA was on March 2016, just 5 months after Heart of Thorns was released. What did we get 5 months after Path of Fire? Back then, we knew we'd be getting another one, and it was one and a half year before that expansion was actually released.

Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/What matters for this discussion:

We have about 120 devs working on the live game, 70 devs on Expac2, and 30 devs on core teams that support both.

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Obtena.7952

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@zealex.9410 said:

To be honest I am trying to use @vyncius.6105 notion of hard-core over casual in relation to how the game released and I am struggling to see anything that would appeal to the hard-core. I mean dungeon running is probably the closest, but can't even remember if we had all those dungeons/paths in game at the start either if I'm honest...So yeah it wasn't marketed as a hard-core friendly game imo and it wasn't until raid wings and fractal cm's were given life in the game that genuine hard-core gaming began.... if we again use the @vyncius.6105 idea of hard-core he presented in this thread backs that up :)

The dungeons were marketed as hard group content and iirc all except like some lw1 dungeons were in there at launch, now if dungeons were nerfed later on or didnt meet expectations is just another thing to put in the list of things anet talked about and then didnt really deliver afterwards.

Im just calling ou the notion that gw2 never marketed having hardcore content and that anet broke some "promise" of no hardcore content by introducing t4s, fractals cms and raids later on.

Wp made a vid specifically on this as well a while back.

Zealex is correct. In a Eurogamer article in 2011, Colin Johanson referred to explorable dungeons as...

"Eurogamer: The hardest content in the game, then, is the five-man dungeons?

Colin Johanson: Correct. There are two versions of every dungeon: a story mode that you do first... that's pick-up group friendly. It's much easier and fun content that has a lot of cinematics in and tells a fun story. And when you finish the story dungeon, you unlock an explorable dungeon. And the explorable dungeon tells the story of what happens after you completed the story dungeon.

That is the most difficult content in our game, our explorable dungeons. They're very, very hard. And they're actually really unique when you look at traditional MMO raids. In Guild Wars 2, every time you load into one of our explorable dungeons you actually get to vote on what path you want to take through the dungeon, and there is a minimum of three paths through the dungeon, and each path is completely different and unique. You can play a dungeon over and over and experience it in different ways."

and

"Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot - will we be farming bosses?

Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It's all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions - a lot of that is still up in the air and we'll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons -
the raids
." [emphasis mine]

I don't see any contradiction there though ... dungeons being the hardest content in the game doesn't mean that they were hardcore content. As a matter of fact, it didn't take long at all for highly capable MMO gamers to solo them. Considering the market this game targets (and still targets), dungeons were hard content at that time and Anet didn't ever sell the game under the premise that it was full of content for hardcore players or at all. Actually, if you exclude the people this game wasn't meant for, it all makes sense. It's all very congruent with how the game was sold to us and what we experienced in it.

Its clearly a case of anet overestimating the dificulty of the content, as they protrayed it as very hard and pug unfriendly yet it didnt really meet those expectations.

No it's not ... it's really dependent on the market they target. .... and yes, at the time it was released, dungeons were very PUG unfriendly. PUG's regularly failed dungeons. I don't see anything that would make someone think those expectations were not met.

As for the solo friendly aspect ... the game was primarily targeting OW for that, and it was the main content at the time; dungeons were side distractions; you didn't even need to complete them to progress your character.

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Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:Then Anet announced the expansion, I think it was at Pax East and suddenly everything turned around.

Heart of Thorns was officially announced in January 2015, 9 months before the actual release:
Also, it was revealed at the end of Season 2 (last episode released 1 day before the above video) that we are getting an expansion.

We didn't at that time know there would be more than one expansion

At that time no. But it was revealed by MO during an AMA that we are getting a second expansion. That AMA was on March 2016, just 5 months after Heart of Thorns was released. What did we get 5 months after Path of Fire? Back then, we knew we'd be getting another one, and it was one and a half year before that expansion was actually released.

Reference:
What matters for this discussion:

We have about 120 devs working on the live game, 70 devs on Expac2, and 30 devs on core teams that support both.

So what I said was factually true. We didn't know before the first expansion that an expansion was coming until it came, in spite of the fact that the forums were chock full of people demanding an expansion and demanding to know. There were far more posts about expansions back then then there are now, and they still kept the secret.

But I really do think they're going to try something newish in Season 5 and that based on that reaction they'll decide what they're doing to do. I can't back it up, more than seeing how the company has worked all along, but I will say this is what I think is going on.

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Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

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@Vayne.8563 said:We didn't at that time know there would be more than one expansionWe did. Just shortly after HoT reveal they announced that HoT will include core in its pricing, and that the next expansion after it would include both Core and HoT. Obviously, they eventually changed their mind about that pricing policy (and core went f2p shorly after), but they were already telling us then about the next expansion after HoT as if it was a given. And that was over half a year before HoT launch.

At the end of the day, Anet could say there's going to eventually be an expansion, the game could slow down and suddenly NcSoft pulls the plugs and then they're just liars, right? They simply can't predict that far into the future.

They could predict before HoT that there will be another expansion, couldn't they. If they can't do that anymore, then GW2 is standing on very shaky grounds.

@Vayne.8563 said:But I really do think they're going to try something newish in Season 5 and that based on that reaction they'll decide what they're doing to do.For the sake of this game, i hope you're wrong, because by the time they will get and gauge that reaction, there will be way too late to make any decision changes for the game's next few years of development. Decision for what's after s5 should be already done. If they weren't made yet, the game is heading straight for maintenance mode.

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zealex.9410

zealex.9410

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@Dami.5046 said:

@"Zexanima.7851" said:Their lack of communication is a detriment to the game and is a good chunk of the reason my friends and I no longer play. This isn't likely to change either which is sad because at it's base I do enjoy the game.

But you still post on the forums?Look at the demands people are throwing at them. Then think why they are keeping quiet.This forum is hardly the welcome wagon.The demands and reasons for these demands from the skill nerfs, to the skyscale to this saying that if things don't change people have/will quit is preposterous. Totally and utterly preposterous. And if you want a cool word,
lame
It is past trolling and flaming.

If he/she didnt post on the forums it would mean he or she has already quit the game and moved on.

The examples you bring arent unique to gw2 and are a loud minority, i dont think its acceptable for anyone to act like that but devs shouldn't base their entire communication policy around these pll when much more can be understanding and cooperative.

Most ppl that say "ill quit if x" dont quit, vayne saw the lack of raods as a selling point yet 7 wings in hes still here. If someone is gonna quit over someone they arent gonna be silly about it, they will just quit.

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maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

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@Vayne.8563 said:So what I said was factually true. We didn't know before the first expansion that an expansion was coming until it came, in spite of the fact that the forums were chock full of people demanding an expansion and demanding to know. There were far more posts about expansions back then then there are now, and they still kept the secret.

But I really do think they're going to try something newish in Season 5 and that based on that reaction they'll decide what they're doing to do. I can't back it up, more than seeing how the company has worked all along, but I will say this is what I think is going on.

We knew before the first expansion that an expansion was coming, in fact it was announced 9 months earlier.I'm a bit confused now, were there posts about expansion during Season 1 and the 2-week release schedule?

So they are waiting to figure out what to do after Season 5 is over... after Season 5 is over. Great long term planning right there

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zealex.9410

zealex.9410

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Then Anet announced the expansion, I think it was at Pax East and suddenly everything turned around.

Heart of Thorns was officially announced in January 2015, 9 months before the actual release:
Also, it was revealed at the end of Season 2 (last episode released 1 day before the above video) that we are getting an expansion.

We didn't at that time know there would be more than one expansion

At that time no. But it was revealed by MO during an AMA that we are getting a second expansion. That AMA was on March 2016, just 5 months after Heart of Thorns was released. What did we get 5 months after Path of Fire? Back then, we knew we'd be getting another one, and it was one and a half year before that expansion was actually released.

Reference:
What matters for this discussion:

We have about 120 devs working on the live game, 70 devs on Expac2, and 30 devs on core teams that support both.

So what I said was factually true. We didn't know before the first expansion that an expansion was coming until it came, in spite of the fact that the forums were chock full of people demanding an expansion and demanding to know. There were far more posts about expansions back then then there are now, and they still kept the secret.

But I really do think they're going to try something newish in Season 5 and that based on that reaction they'll decide what they're doing to do. I can't back it up, more than seeing how the company has worked all along, but I will say this is what I think is going on.

Thats a terrible plan because that wont gove anet enough time to bake anything for a timely release after se5.

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