Already tired of mounts

[Cayenne.5341]

sounds to me like the mount attack abilities need to scale down better in low level maps. Personally, the mounts will make me visit low level maps more often and if it has that effect on more people, it would probably be a good thing. I would be very disappointed to seee the mounts disabled, they are fun. And I was totally against introducing mounts before using these ones.

[Saaskje.1264]

Eventually I would like to see ANET introduce a way for everyone to get a mount (even just a basic mount), whether they have access to PoF or not. If all players had access to at least one mount, I think there would be less of a sense of unfairness. I like and appreciate the challenge of acquiring a mount---that shouldn't change and I loved working hard for my Griffon & its mastery---but there ought to be a way for non-PoF players to get their own mount. Maybe a core-Tyria kind of mount, such as a Moa or something? Think on it, ANET!

[CedarDog.9723]

@Saaskje.1264 said:Eventually I would like to see ANET introduce a way for everyone to get a mount (even just a basic mount), whether they have access to PoF or not. If all players had access to at least one mount, I think there would be less of a sense of unfairness. I like and appreciate the challenge of acquiring a mount---that shouldn't change and I loved working hard for my Griffon & its mastery---but there ought to be a way for non-PoF players to get their own mount. Maybe a core-Tyria kind of mount, such as a Moa or something? Think on it, ANET!

I agree, kinda like how non-HoT players were able to get their own gliders.

[IvoryOwl.3275]

I agree that mounts need to be toned down for low-level areas. I was doing the junkyard event on the newbie Charr area and this guy just kept rushing from side to side, one-hitting groups of mobs with the raptor. A new player, with no mount, wouldn't stand a chance. I mentioned it on map chat and just got called a liar and trolled for it... I understand people want to use mounts because they're cool but at least have some consideration for other players as well, specially on low-level areas.

[zealex.9410]

Isnt the engage skill bugged? Iirc it scaled in wierd ways which resulted in retarded amounts of dmg.

[Dante.1763]

@zealex.9410 said:Isnt the engage skill bugged? Iirc it scaled in wierd ways which resulted in kitten amounts of dmg.

I thought they said they scaled it down. But, honestly, in 1-15 zones i dont think mounts should be a thing simply for same reason they got rid of the champ trains, new players WILL get frustrated when they cant do events/kill things because players with mounts get there first. Granted i think it will slowly die off, but theres no reason to have engagement skills on those low levels.

However, they need to fix downscaling for the entire game.

[Locce.8405]

Maybe the dismount-engage skill is a bit strong on low-level maps, but remove a fun and useful addition to the game for a huge part of the maps because of people being inconsiderate with it? You might as well remove the chat window and disable knockback on ranger longbow 4 and mesmer greatsword 5, because I have seen some pretty annoying stuff with those things, too.Granted, the Daily (low-level map) Event Completer does not get easier with this for mount-less people, but that is basically the spot the speed-buff-less people had before. For people with mount that Daily becomes considerably less annoying than before, but generally it is not a good Daily on crowded maps in any way. While there certainly are other situations when people who can not yet own mounts or who do not want to use them are at a disadvantage spilling the baby with the bathwater is not by any means a good solution.

[xDjust.3129]

Mounts are limited for those who have PoF right now. It's part of the expansion. With my mounts I can finally enjoy the HoT maps.I'm sure those who don't buy PoF will get a chance to purchase a mount in the future. Maybe not tomorrow or next month, but it will be in time.

[Dante.1763]

@xDjust.3129 said:Mounts are limited for those who have PoF right now. It's part of the expansion. With my mounts I can finally enjoy the HoT maps.I'm sure those who don't buy PoF will get a chance to purchase a mount in the future. Maybe not tomorrow or next month, but it will be in time.

Can you purchase and use gliders without HoT?

[etsubmariner.4690]

I'd be totally ok for mount damage to be negated utterly in core Tyria at low levels, scaling up to only a bit in Orr and full power in HoT thereafter.

[Neural.1824]

@Saaskje.1264 said:Eventually I would like to see ANET introduce a way for everyone to get a mount

Have to disagree there. Mounts, like gliding, in central Tyria are a selling point for the expansions.

[Electro.4173]

I agree that the engage skills may need some adjustment in lower-level maps. They do a crapton of damage on lower scales, I was almost 1-shotting whole groups of mobs yesterday in Brisban Wildlands using my upgraded Raptor Tail Swipe. That combined with the increased mobility really hurts the chances of non-mounted players to contribute to events and such.

That being said, if they adjust the skills they need to make sure it ONLY affects downscaled maps. Because the damage on level 80 maps is perfectly fine, and lowering it on those maps would lower their effectiveness to the point of near-uselessness, since they're 1-off (per encounter) skills.

[Coulter.2315]

@Saaskje.1264 said:Eventually I would like to see ANET introduce a way for everyone to get a mount (even just a basic mount), whether they have access to PoF or not. If all players had access to at least one mount, I think there would be less of a sense of unfairness. I like and appreciate the challenge of acquiring a mount---that shouldn't change and I loved working hard for my Griffon & its mastery---but there ought to be a way for non-PoF players to get their own mount. Maybe a core-Tyria kind of mount, such as a Moa or something? Think on it, ANET!

Terrible idea, do you want people to buy the expansion or not? Some people seem to think Anet is eternal and purchasing their products is utterly separate from Anet creating them.

As for the mount "problem" just scale down the engage or OP can go do the first story step of the expansion.

[fungihoujo.8476]

From time to time, I am inconvenienced by people who are not playing in the extremely specific manner that I have chosen to play. Thus, everyone else should be inconvenienced all the time.

Games evolve over time, and content that was new five years ago is not going to be the focus now. For every one player that has spent five years replaying vanilla maps over and over, there's 100 players that found completion tedious and are eager for this opportunity to do it quickly and hassle free. You don't get to use your minor and occasional annoyance to stop considerably more players from enjoying something new.

[Sondergaard.8469]

To be honest, scaling is off in low level maps and has been for a long time. It's not really the mounts that are the problem, but the damage scaling in general. The mounts just highlight the issue with high level players returning to low level maps in full ascended gear. I don't have to be mounted to round up and one-shot a group of enemies in a low level map. The mounts just help me get there quicker. That said, I don't disagree with the argument that the abilities should probably scale a little more gracefully in the low level maps so that new players or old players with new characters aren't experiencing the issues highlighted here.

[Shena Fu.5792]

it's not about not getting the mount. it's about letting the low level characters being able to actually complete events so they can get XP. how can a new player on the trial mode get a good impression of the game if they are constantly harassed by the higher level players and prevented from participating in activities meant for low level toons?

mounts have made dailies more unbearable. as soon as the event are announced in chat, chances are the event is over by the time you get there.

[Taygus.4571]

As a returning player starting over with a new character progression. I have seen mounts obliterate enemies. This is not ok... and those saying "move on and get a mount ",..That's not really a solution, do you not want ANY new players? Because this kind of play is very frustrating for new players.

As others have already said, their attack/engage definitely needs to be lowered in low level maps.And i also agree with the person that suggests 1-15 level maps should lock mounts out.This helps new players actually get into to game.

[Rayti.6531]

Mounts brought me back to Core Tyria maps, since they add a new layer to map exploration. I was tired of doing map completion "the old way" after the many times I already did. To me (and many other "veterans"), using mounts in Core Tyria is a substantial part of the expansion and something I paid for. I don't see a reason why others should be able to take that content away from me, based on some "bad experience" they had on a low level map, especially when the underlying problem is a totally different one.

The issue described by the OP existed long before mounts. Even without mounts, you always had people who could reach events faster than you und burn the event mobs down (or complete whatever other objective there may be). There always were classes who could traverse a map faster (depending on equipped abilities and traits), and there always were high lvl players in low lvl maps, who could burst things down in an instant. So if someone wanted to snipe away an event before you reach it, there were plenty of ways to do so, even before PoF.

Going by the OP's logic, elite specializations should also be locked to their respective expansion maps -> Before PoF, the fastest way to traverse a map was on Daredevil - a HoT specialization. So players who owned HoT already had a speed advantage... Same goes for gliding, since it enables you to get to locations faster (ignoring fall dmg, using optimal paths to reach an event location, etc.) - so that should be disabled as well I guess...? In my opinion that's the wrong approach -> taking away content from one part of the player base just to make another type of content which is relevant to another part of the player base work should never be the answer.

The underlying problem isn't how fast people can reach an event, but how short-lived some events are due to terrible scaling - especially in low lvl maps. In my opinion, scaling is the main problem that should be addressed (both event scaling, as well as the mount engage skill scaling which is currently also broken).

[Abakk.9176]

Ruining a part of the game so that it can be brute forced by those that were previously not interested in doing things the proper way seems egoistic and silly.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

the enemies have not enough health in core tyria. Thats the biggest problem.

[Rayti.6531]

@Abakk.9176 said:Ruining a part of the game so that it can be brute forced by those that were previously not interested in doing things the proper way seems egoistic and silly.

No idea what you mean by brute forcing parts of the game and previously not being interested in doing things the proper way. But if you are referring to map completion I think it's fair to say that after 8 map completions "the proper way" it should be understandable (at least to some people) that some change in pace or seing the maps from a different angle might make this task more interesting to veteran players again and maybe bring back some of them to (5-year-) old content, which they otherwise might not be playing at all.

I'd rather have those players running through Core Tyria maps on mounts and participate in an event here and there, than letting the old maps die out entirely -> for low lvl players an empty map might make them think they landed in a dead game and wander off to a different game prematurely. To me, that doesn't seem very healthy for the game at all.

I still think that low level maps as well as mounts need an overhaul in regards to scaling - with the current state the low level events and the mount engage skills are in I see why there might be problems with mounted players in low level zones.

[Jong.5937]

Yep, sounds like Anet haven't scaled the engage skill that well for lower level maps. Fix that and all should be good. I would hate to see mounts leave Central Tyria. One of the best things Anet have done to reinvigorate them.

[Abakk.9176]

@Rayti.6531 said:

@Abakk.9176 said:Ruining a part of the game so that it can be brute forced by those that were previously not interested in doing things the proper way seems egoistic and silly.

No idea what you mean by brute forcing parts of the game and previously not being interested in doing things the proper way. But if you are referring to map completion I think it's fair to say that after 8 map completions "the proper way" it should be understandable (at least to some people) that some change in pace or seing the maps from a different angle might make this task more interesting to veteran players again and maybe bring back some of them to (5-year-) old content, which they otherwise might not be playing at all.

That is indeed what i mean by "brute forcing".

For a max level player with lots of experience and multiple character/map completions it should be easy to gain speed bonuses to further ease the process, even without mounts. There is no reason for Veteran players to smash around beginner maps for more personal gain.

I'd rather have those players running through Core Tyria maps on mounts and participate in an event here and there, than letting the old maps die out entirely -> for low lvl players an empty map might make them think they landed in a dead game and wander off to a different game prematurely. To me, that doesn't seem very healthy for the game at all.

I've been running around in the core maps and most of the time there are enough players around to finish events. The game never seemed dead to me by no stretch of the imagination. Then again, having flashy max level players zip around squashing everything in seconds, might cause new players to lose interest in the game. 'To me, that doesn't seem very healthy for the game at all. '

I still think that low level maps as well as mounts need an overhaul in regards to scaling - with the current state the low level events and the mount engage skills are in I see why there might be problems with mounted players in low level zones.

There is nothing wrong with lower level maps other than players zipping around on mounts, smashing content before the low level -players can get to it.

[Rayti.6531]

@Abakk.9176 said:That is indeed what i mean by "brute forcing".

For a max level player with lots of experience and multiple character/map completions it should be easy to gain speed bonuses to further ease the process, even without mounts. There is no reason for Veteran players to smash around beginner maps for more personal gain.

I never claimed at any point throughout my post that I had problems achieving speed bonuses or things weren't going fast enough for me prior to mounts -> that's not the case at all. It's the monotony of doing things the same way for a certain amount of times which prevented me from going back to the same content for a 9th or a 10th time.

I'm not even faster at doing map comp when using mounts, since I love exploring. And there are certain parts of the maps you could not reach before which are now accessible (without map breaking for a change). Partly beautiful parts of the map devs actually spent time on and that were hidden away in inaccessible areas.

My "personal gain" when wandering through low level maps is the exploration per se (-> there was nothing left to explore until mounts were introduced) + the players I meet along the way. I sometimes go to core maps on my ele with healing gear just to help new players with certain tasks without interfering too much with dmg - just providing a safety net for those who want it. But you seem to be too biased to even notice there are many vet players doing that (in many different ways) and choose to instead concentrate on those players rushing through content and ruining other player's experiences (which funnily enough, I've never encountered on my first 8 characters)...

I've been running around in the core maps and most of the time there are enough players around to finish events. The game never seemed dead to me by no stretch of the imagination. Then again, having flashy max level players zip around squashing everything in seconds, might cause new players to lose interest in the game. 'To me, that doesn't seem very healthy for the game at all. '

You are right, there are currently many players in those core maps -> and the expansion plays a big part in that.We also had players on those maps before the expansion -> Ever bothered to check how many of them are the oh so evil "flashy max level players" you seem to despise so much? How many of them are just doing map comp on an alt? How many of them just came to kill a map boss? You'd be surprised how many of the people on low level maps are in fact vet players on an alt or even a second account.

Regarding "healthy for the game": Nobody ever said that high level players kill stealing from low level players are healthy for the game (even though most will cease to do so once you point that out to them -> the number of players doing that on purpose isn't very high). There can be many different things being unhealthy for a game at the same time - this spot is not reserverd for a single type of player. I'm sure there is also a special spot reserved for those who think they have to decide for other players how and where they are allowed to play the game. :)

There is nothing wrong with lower level maps other than players zipping around on mounts, smashing content before the low level -players can get to it.

Except for event scaling, player scaling, skill scaling, etc. which has always been and will probably always be a problem - this isn't even limited to low level maps. There are enough events you can complete far too fast even on low level characters. You don't need players zipping around on mounts to achieve that.

[Abakk.9176]

@Rayti.6531 said:

@Abakk.9176 said:That is indeed what i mean by "brute forcing".

For a max level player with lots of experience and multiple character/map completions it should be easy to gain speed bonuses to further ease the process, even without mounts. There is no reason for Veteran players to smash around beginner maps for more personal gain.

I never claimed at any point throughout my post that I had problems achieving speed bonuses or things weren't going fast enough for me prior to mounts -> that's not the case at all. It's the monotony of doing things the same way for a certain amount of times which prevented me from going back to the same content for a 9th or a 10th time.

Yeah must be great for vets not to be bored at old content (until even that gets boring again, wonder what needs to be sacrificed then). Too bad nobody else is ever going to enjoy it that way because mounts...including new players.

@Rayti.6531 said:I'm not even faster at doing map comp when using mounts, since I love exploring. And there are certain parts of the maps you could not reach before which are now accessible (without map breaking for a change). Partly beautiful parts of the map devs actually spent time on and that were hidden away in inaccessible areas.

My "personal gain" when wandering through low level maps is the exploration per se (-> there was nothing left to explore until mounts were introduced) + the players I meet along the way. I sometimes go to core maps on my ele with healing gear just to help new players with certain tasks without interfering too much with dmg - just providing a safety net for those who want it. But you seem to be too biased to even notice there are many vet players doing that (in many different ways) and choose to instead concentrate on those players rushing through content and ruining other player's experiences (which funnily enough, I've never encountered on my first 8 characters)...

Don't see where you are going with this. I help out too a lot because i like to do that. What has that got to do with mounts?

@Rayti.6531 said:

I've been running around in the core maps and most of the time there are enough players around to finish events. The game never seemed dead to me by no stretch of the imagination. Then again, having flashy max level players zip around squashing everything in seconds, might cause new players to lose interest in the game. 'To me, that doesn't seem very healthy for the game at all. '

You are right, there are currently many players in those core maps -> and the expansion plays a big part in that.

It was alive quite well 5-6 months ago when i started playing. That was one of the thing that struck me as it is a 5 yr old game. Has nothing to do with a new expansion from where im standing.

@Rayti.6531 said:We also had players on those maps before the expansion -> Ever bothered to check how many of them are the oh so evil "flashy max level players" you seem to despise so much? How many of them are just doing map comp on an alt? How many of them just came to kill a map boss? You'd be surprised how many of the people on low level maps are in fact vet players on an alt or even a second account.

Has nothing to do with the issue. Its about the freshness of the core maps and leaving that experience intact for repeaters and new alike.

@Rayti.6531 said:

Regarding "healthy for the game": Nobody ever said that high level players kill stealing from low level players are healthy for the game (even though most will cease to do so once you point that out to them -> the number of players doing that on purpose isn't very high). There can be many different things being unhealthy for a game at the same time - this spot is not reserverd for a single type of player. I'm sure there is also a special spot reserved for those who think they have to decide for other players how and where they are allowed to play the game. :)

@Abakk.9176 said:There is nothing wrong with lower level maps other than players zipping around on mounts, smashing content before the low level -players can get to it.

Except for event scaling, player scaling, skill scaling, etc. which has always been and will probably always be a problem - this isn't even limited to low level maps. There are enough events you can complete far too fast even on low level characters.

You don't need players zipping around on mounts to achieve that.

So what you say is: Its already broken, lets break it some more?

Hey, i get a tummy tickle too when i speed through the landscape on my raptor. I still think it needs to go though. It ruins the core maps and the way we all started out playing. That needs to be preserved so that others can become hooked on the game as we did.