Already tired of mounts

[Nooker.7856]

@Ceonaight.3087 said:I am a career low level map player without mount. I enjoy the game at that level , I play my characters to 80, kill them off and start over. I like the low stress action and really do find the mounts interfering in the low level maps to be irritating.

Thats not how a MMO is working.If you like to play this way, you should play single player RPGs.

[Jabari.7026]

Made a poll: Should mounts be downscaled just like your level?https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7669/should-mount-be-downscaled-just-like-your-level#latest

[Hitman.5829]

Completely disagree! Mounts should be usable in all maps, that is what has gotten me back exploring the old maps again. I have been playing this game for 5 years and since the introduction of mounts it feels like a new game.

Thumbs down for you!

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Yes please. Disable them in Core Tyria. This decision is seeeriously going to bite Arena Net HARD. Mounts should not have been introduced into the game. They require redesigned maps to work properly moreso than gliding did, as the movement boost is huge in all directions. They also trivialise any and all challenges that don't instagib players, and hugely affect players without, as they simply cannot keep up.

[makagoto.1204]

just tuning down the Mount-attack won't really help, because with the mount you are still a lot faster at those Mobs and it's just another click until they die if you are full zerker or viper. maybe those mobs shouldn't just spawn far away but rather inside of the Event circle.

[Silencio.2604]

I bought the base game back when it was new, now I'm back after many years. Doing some events in Orr.. but can't keep up without mount. Once I catch up they are usually already done and ready to move to next event or very close to. And I can't have a mount without buying PoF. I wanted to play the game a bit to see if I wanted to buy the expansions. I don't like being forced to buy things as I'm not having fun without. Sorry but this feels like a cash-grab, I don't even like mounts. At least add 1 or few simple free mounts for people who don't have latest expansion so they can keep up.

edit: I think I'm better off in a game like Wildstar, where everything can be done for free. I bought the base game here but most of the content is locked behind paywalls for me now, or no longer fun without the addons. Was looking forward to maybe a Guild Wars 3 but if you are going to go about it in the same way as in first ask money then make it free and lock important parts behind expansions, I think I'll pass.

Draft saved popups.. You guys sure like adding annoying things don't you.

[Rayti.6531]

@Abakk.9176 said:

@Rayti.6531 said:

I never claimed at any point throughout my post that I had problems achieving speed bonuses or things weren't going fast enough for me prior to mounts -> that's not the case at all. It's the monotony of doing things the same way for a certain amount of times which prevented me from going back to the same content for a 9th or a 10th time.

Yeah must be great for vets not to be bored at old content (until even that gets boring again, wonder what needs to be sacrificed then). Too bad nobody else is ever going to enjoy it that way because mounts...including new players.

Since it took me nearly five years to get bored with map completion/the lack of new things to see on old maps it might take a while for me to get bored again. I'm generally easily entertained.

@Abakk.9176 said:

@Rayti.6531 said:I'm not even faster at doing map comp when using mounts, since I love exploring. And there are certain parts of the maps you could not reach before which are now accessible (without map breaking for a change). Partly beautiful parts of the map devs actually spent time on and that were hidden away in inaccessible areas.

My "personal gain" when wandering through low level maps is the exploration per se (-> there was nothing left to explore until mounts were introduced) + the players I meet along the way. I sometimes go to core maps on my ele with healing gear just to help new players with certain tasks without interfering too much with dmg - just providing a safety net for those who want it. But you seem to be too biased to even notice there are many vet players doing that (in many different ways) and choose to instead concentrate on those players rushing through content and ruining other player's experiences (which funnily enough, I've never encountered on my first 8 characters)...

Don't see where you are going with this. I help out too a lot because i like to do that. What has that got to do with mounts?

Since you were the one bringing up "speed bonuses" and vet players "smashing around beginner maps for more personal gain", maybe I should be asking you that question. I was merely commenting on your claim, since it simply doesn't apply to most high level players in low level areas.

@Abakk.9176 said:

@Rayti.6531 said:

I've been running around in the core maps and most of the time there are enough players around to finish events. The game never seemed dead to me by no stretch of the imagination. Then again, having flashy max level players zip around squashing everything in seconds, might cause new players to lose interest in the game. 'To me, that doesn't seem very healthy for the game at all. '

You are right, there are currently many players in those core maps -> and the expansion plays a big part in that.

It was alive quite well 5-6 months ago when i started playing. That was one of the thing that struck me as it is a 5 yr old game. Has nothing to do with a new expansion from where im standing.

Do you have any statistics on how exactly the population changed after the expansion? I don't, but you don't need to be a genius to figure out the connection between an expansion and the amount of (new and old) players among a starting area's population.

@Abakk.9176 said:

@Rayti.6531 said:We also had players on those maps before the expansion -> Ever bothered to check how many of them are the oh so evil "flashy max level players" you seem to despise so much? How many of them are just doing map comp on an alt? How many of them just came to kill a map boss? You'd be surprised how many of the people on low level maps are in fact vet players on an alt or even a second account.

Has nothing to do with the issue. Its about the freshness of the core maps and leaving that experience intact for repeaters and new alike.

It seemed relevant to me since you kept claiming maxed out players were rushing through content and killing things in front of low lvl players - I don't see the connection to the "mounts issue" either since those high level players existed on low lvl maps before mounts were introduced. You didn't mention any "freshness of the core maps" - otherwise I would have commented on that instead -> Do you decide what makes a map feel "fresh" to a player or is it the player experiencing the content? The option to traverse the map without mounts is there for those who want to. If they want to use mounts though, it's their decision. Options are always a good thing if given to the players.

@Abakk.9176 said:

@Rayti.6531 said:

Regarding "healthy for the game": Nobody ever said that high level players kill stealing from low level players are healthy for the game (even though most will cease to do so once you point that out to them -> the number of players doing that on purpose isn't very high). There can be many different things being unhealthy for a game at the same time - this spot is not reserverd for a single type of player. I'm sure there is also a special spot reserved for those who think they have to decide for other players how and where they are allowed to play the game. :)

@Abakk.9176 said:There is nothing wrong with lower level maps other than players zipping around on mounts, smashing content before the low level -players can get to it.

Except for event scaling, player scaling, skill scaling, etc. which has always been and will probably always be a problem - this isn't even limited to low level maps. There are enough events you can complete far too fast even on low level characters.

You don't need players zipping around on mounts to achieve that.

So what you say is: Its already broken, lets break it some more?

Nope. Since you seem to keep reading things that aren't written anywhere, please let me elaborate: What I'm trying to say is that mounts only affect events in such a way because the scaling is broken to begin with. And since I'd rather have a real solution to a long existing problem rather than a band aid fix for a recent one just resulting from the previous problem, I preferred if the underlying issue was resolved instead of making lots of customers angry by removing an advertised feature they paid for.

[Alaric.3980]

I hate to be "that guy", I really do, because the community here is one of the nicest I've ever seen and I feel like I owe it to be nice too. I'm not going to in this instance though.

Anet's goal here is to make money, in any way they can. Yes this is a game for us but for them it's a business. The unfortunate thing is that your chosen playstyle isn't their focus here. You are free to play this game however, whenever, you want. You're free to spend or not spend money on it as you want (the earlier comment saying if you don't have 20 every 2 years you shouldn't be in front of a PC is kitten ridiculous) but you also have to realize that in your particular case, OP, you're disadvantaging yourself.

How much of a basic feature is a mount in an MMO nowadays, how basic do we expect transmog to be? What does Anet do? Charges for transmog and builds an expansion entirely around a basic feature. Their goal is to make money. Their goal is to give you an incentive to let them milk it out of you.

You're at a loss here that you personally are just going to have to accept and either play, and find ways around the frustration, or not play at all. It's a crappy reality thats just part of things evolving.

I never use mount skills personally so I didn't know people were being kitten holes about that stuff but now that I do, for new players, I totally see a reason to debuff the attacks. However, now that I know the skills do that I'm totally looking forward to springing up into some unpopulated high areas and cannonballing some low level mobs that people most likely aren't going to touch (after checking if there's any players around, of course.)

[Blaeys.3102]

@Aye.8392 said:Recently the daily was Queensdale event completer and I was attempting to do a couple of escort events where centaurs would attack a bull. There were 2 players who were mounted on raptors and when the centaur groups would spawn they would ride to the group and use tail sweep. Since I and most of the other players at the event were unmounted we were no able to get to the mobs before the high speed raptors had them dead -- 2 tail sweeps wipe out 10 centaurs with no trouble. However, when the problem was mentioned/described in map chat the two players both dismounted and followed the bull on to its destination without a problem. Our community is generally very nice when given the opportunity.

I would hate to see mounts disallowed in Core Tyria, but toning down the engagement skills is probably in order.

While I have no issues with mounts personally - and love that they are in all parts of the game - this poster does have a valid concern that shouldn't get lost in the other debates in this thread. I can see new players frustrated by events like this.

Not sure what can be done to fix it, but it is worth putting some resources behind a solution, imo.

[crashburntoo.7431]

The Problem

Events in lower level areas are finished prior to many players being able to reach them. This includes new players and vet players, whether on low level or high level characters. Mounts seem to have exacerbated the problem by allowing PoF owners to reach events faster than non-PoF owners. This doesn't guarantee that a PoF owner makes it in time or that a non-PoF owner won't make it. This problem existed prior to mounts.

Let's break this up into two contributing factors: (1) the relative speed of your character and (2) the power/damage output of your character and look at each.

(1) Speed - faster characters, whether on mounts or not, will reach things sooner. Those with mounts are likely the fastest. Reaching the event in time only matters if the events are ending faster than "designed" or faster than is reasonably expected. This is subjective, but we need to look at design intent. It doesn't seem reasonable that an event would end in 26 seconds, or possibly 1 minute and 26 seconds. There will be some variability based on event type. Ultimately, it's a QoL improvement to have the ability to reach things faster, whether through mount or other means.

(2) Damage Output - higher level characters are likely dealing more damage (gear/build variable). We can reasonably draw the conclusion that most people gear and build for damage. It's popular in most Metas and is typically the most effective, general strategy. Players shouldn't be penalized for their build, but that same build shouldn't be "broken" relative to the event/mobs.

The Solution

Eliminating mounts from Core Tyria isn't without any merit, but the cons outweigh the pros. Consider the effect purely based on marketing of PoF and the impact of "feature removal". I'm personally a fan of exploring Core Tyria with my mounts and find it enjoyable. It's re-engaged many others in the original content for the first time in a while. Speed is only a concern if the events are ending too quickly. The solution is found in damage output, or more appropriately, balancing.

Damage output could be reduced, both on mounts with engagement and on player characters. The answer is found in making the event last for a certain, minimum time based on a certain DPS loading. For example, the event could have mob level and hp increased while player characters and mounts have damage output dampened such that an event will take a minimum of 2 minutes if there are 10-15 theoretical level 80 characters engaged with a DPS average of X.

Ultimately, it is a bigger picture balance issue that needs to be addressed at that level. Mounts have highlighted it by providing a means to enhance speed and damage (engage ability). In the short term, the easiest thing for Anet to do is nerf mount damage on low level maps. The speed advantage remains with players capable of ending events prematurely in and of themselves. That can only be fixed with event/damage balancing and scaling.

Argument "End Wall of Text" = True

EDIT: Please Note There is no perfect solution that guarantees that everyone will make the event in time and get credit. I wish it existed, but I wish a lot of ideals existed in the real world too.

[Abakk.9176]

@Rayti.6531 said:I preferred if the underlying issue was resolved instead of making lots of customers angry by removing an advertised feature they paid for.

Like i said in another post... give all players a basic mount at lvl 10 or so and turn the damage off on the real ones (or remove them from core maps).

Whatever suits anyones fancy. As long as all playingfields are even.

My personal opinion is that all mounts should be removed from core game and preserve that as it is now.

[Doggie.3184]

Buy PoF, it's cheap.

[PopeUrban.2578]

@Ceonaight.3087 said:I am a career low level map player without mount. I enjoy the game at that level , I play my characters to 80, kill them off and start over. I like the low stress action and really do find the mounts interfering in the low level maps to be irritating.

"I play the game in the exact opposite manner from which it is designed to be played. Please change the design meant to serve the vast majority of the player base because I deserve special treatment and can't be bothered to go play something with permadeath and a focus on leveling."

Now aside from your absurd reasoning, mount engagment damage definately needs scaling just because it entirely trivializes lower level maps for the players using the mounts. Not because it interferes with someone who regularly kills off characters even though the game automatically downscales every character to the map's power level.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@PopeUrban.2578 said:

@Ceonaight.3087 said:I am a career low level map player without mount. I enjoy the game at that level , I play my characters to 80, kill them off and start over. I like the low stress action and really do find the mounts interfering in the low level maps to be irritating.

"I play the game in the exact opposite manner from which it is designed to be played. Please change the design meant to serve the vast majority of the player base because I deserve special treatment and can't be bothered to go play something with permadeath and a focus on leveling."

Actually the OP's point about tail sweep is relevant, it would do no harm to scale down tail sweep (should be the case anyway) because it does noone favours if whole group of mobs are aoed in seconds, thats no fun, and really poor gameplay for new players or otherwise who enjoy these zones.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@PopeUrban.2578 said:

@Ceonaight.3087 said:I am a career low level map player without mount. I enjoy the game at that level , I play my characters to 80, kill them off and start over. I like the low stress action and really do find the mounts interfering in the low level maps to be irritating.

"I play the game in the exact opposite manner from which it is designed to be played. Please change the design meant to serve the vast majority of the player base because I deserve special treatment and can't be bothered to go play something with permadeath and a focus on leveling."

Actually the OP's point about tail sweep is relevant, it would do no harm to scale down tail sweep (should be the case anyway) because it does noone favours if whole group of mobs are aoed in seconds, thats no fun, and really poor gameplay for new players or otherwise who enjoy these zones. As for his gameplay style, great RPGs support many different forms of gameplay, and his chosen style is in fact how the zones were meant to be played.

[Ellisande.5218]

OPer: "I hate mounts. Therefore people who love mounts shouldn't be able to use them because I hate them."

If you just wait 2 minutes that person is going to finish whatever they were doing and move on. It isn't like someone having a mount prevents you from doing heart quests, getting PoIs, getting HPs, getting sight seers, etc. I simply don't see the actual problem here. The only problem I see is that you are watching someone else enjoy something you don't enjoy and then coming on these boards to say that the person shouldn't be allowed to enjoy what you don't enjoy and should be forced to play the way you prefer to play.

The world events usually give very little XP for the time invested and usually take more time to complete than simply arriving at the destination. Many world events are time gated, especially bosses, or involve following a NPC that moves at a set speed or killing a boss with lots of hp and thus where the time to completion is dependent on the number of players whacking the boss at any given time rather than the speed at which any particular player arrives at said boss. The only events which would be grossly affected by mounts are the world events where you either kill a sole veteran or a small number of mobs on patrol.

Working solely on map completion usually gives you the 10 levels you need to unlock the next level of the story, and if not you can always spend a tiny bit of time on another map to get that last bit of xp.

[Dante.1763]

@Ellisande.5218 said:OPer: "I hate mounts. Therefore people who love mounts shouldn't be able to use them because I hate them."

See, now you just sound like a {Redacted so i dont get banned for name calling cause lol anets mods} because the OP does have a decent point about level 1-15 areas.

[tigirius.9014]

@Ceonaight.3087 said:I am so sick of these mounts blasting in to my maps, killing everything before I can even get there. Game is sucking because of this. Can we keep mounts on the upgraded maps? There is a coolness to them but they overpower everything on the lower levels. I am ready to quit this BS.

This was actually an issue long before mounts came along mobs in the open world even the ones that are mini bosses generally die quickly before you get there sometimes. The wurm for example.

[PopeUrban.2578]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@PopeUrban.2578 said:

@Ceonaight.3087 said:I am a career low level map player without mount. I enjoy the game at that level , I play my characters to 80, kill them off and start over. I like the low stress action and really do find the mounts interfering in the low level maps to be irritating.

"I play the game in the exact opposite manner from which it is designed to be played. Please change the design meant to serve the vast majority of the player base because I deserve special treatment and can't be bothered to go play something with permadeath and a focus on leveling."

Actually the OP's point about tail sweep is relevant, it would do no harm to scale down tail sweep (should be the case anyway) because it does noone favours if whole group of mobs are aoed in seconds, thats no fun, and really poor gameplay for new players or otherwise who enjoy these zones. As for his gameplay style, great RPGs support many different forms of gameplay, and his chosen style is in fact how the zones were meant to be played.

The game was most certainly not intended for players to level to 80 and delete characters. That's the entire point of level scaling, and the entire point of having more core leveling zones than you need to actually get to 80. So that level 80 players are incentivized to still play in those zones with level 80 characters because they're not entirely trivialized.

That's also why every new expansion starts with the assumption you have a level 80 character, and actually GIVES you a level 80 character at the point of purchase.

because the game assumes you make a character, and then level it, gear it, and continue to use it.

Mounts in the open world are deliberate the same way gliders were. Anet wants you to see other players that have cool stuff you don't so that you're incentivized to get that stuff.

That said, the major problem here is that mount engagement skills aren't properly scaled in lower level zones the same way players are. That's what needs to be fixed. Players simply having mounts and using them to move around or engage isn't the problem. The problem is that "engaging" in low level zones means "instantly killing"

[Ellisande.5218]

@Aye.8392 said:Recently the daily was Queensdale event completer and I was attempting to do a couple of escort events where centaurs would attack a bull. There were 2 players who were mounted on raptors and when the centaur groups would spawn they would ride to the group and use tail sweep. Since I and most of the other players at the event were unmounted we were no able to get to the mobs before the high speed raptors had them dead -- 2 tail sweeps wipe out 10 centaurs with no trouble. However, when the problem was mentioned/described in map chat the two players both dismounted and followed the bull on to its destination without a problem. Our community is generally very nice when given the opportunity.

I would hate to see mounts disallowed in Core Tyria, but toning down the engagement skills is probably in order.

How about a superior alternative?

Tie event participation to a counter based on proximity rather than attacks. Yes, some players who are AFK might be able to farm gold afking in one area for months at a time, but that is paltry compared to the benefits to real players.

[Jheo.3015]

@Abakk.9176 said:

@Rayti.6531 said:I preferred if the underlying issue was resolved instead of making lots of customers angry by removing an advertised feature they paid for.

Like i said in another post... give all players a basic mount at lvl 10 or so and turn the damage off on the real ones (or remove them from core maps).

Whatever suits anyones fancy. As long as all playingfields are even.

My personal opinion is that all mounts should be removed from core game and preserve that as it is now.

The core game is already free, why would you want to give players a basic mount to even a playing field? I do not want to elaborate but GW2 is a game but also a business for the developers etc... maybe new players will actually be enticed to buy expansions when they see people on mounts and gliders, have you ever thought about that?

Why should Anet remove mounts from the core game when it is one of the selling points of POF?Better scaling on mount skills will alleviate some issues.

[Game of Bones.8975]

Not everyone has Hot or PoF so does that mean that you also want elites banned as well because they have an advantage?Play to your strengths instead of worrying about your weakness compared to other players (especially if you are not in PvP or WvW).

[Ceonaight.3087]

Thanks to all the calm thoughtful responses to my post. I now confess that today I bought the expansion and earned a mount. I did it because I ran into a number of nice competitors and it gave me another look. I still don't like the but - inners, however I am looking forward to covering some major ground on the raptor. I paid the 29$ and earned the mount in short order. Join em was my rational.

[Pax.3548]

@Ceonaight.3087 said:Thanks to all the calm thoughtful responses to my post. I now confess that today I bought the expansion and earned a mount. I did it because I ran into a number of nice competitors and it gave me another look. I still don't like the but - inners, however I am looking forward to covering some major ground on the raptor. I paid the 29$ and earned the mount in short order. Join em was my rational.

With time things should calm down, problems balanced and everyone can have their fun. But everyone will need to come to terms, new players will need to accept that players with mount will be moving around the world from now on, while the players with mounts will have to accept to tune down with the damage they deal, making mounts ideal for movement, but not for overkilling mobs in core Tyria.

[Zoid.2568]

High levels in low level maps have always beeen more powerful and killed everything faster. It has nothing to do with mounts.