Alliances will not bring players and guilds back to WvW

[Warlord.9074]

Unfortunately every one who has quit wvw for different reasons but a lot of the reasons guilds quit is because too many other guilds and players quit. The hope was an alliance system would retain players or bring players back to the game. By revitalizing the wvw population, the guilds would then have enough competition to warrant staying in the game or coming back.

Anet the problem is that ship has already sailed The hype has ended, and most people already gave up because the bleeding had reached a point that there was nothing to do anymore for most wvw guilds left. They were already bored of the game.

WARNINGIt would be a colossal error on your company's leadership to be betting the farm on using an alliance system the the players were promised as a "feature pack" long long ago that had been being worked on and developed for separate from an expansion and long before an expansion was being worked on.

The alliance system needs to come out before an expansion because nobody I know will buy the expansion for a dead game mode on the speculation that 1000s of others will buy it too and that will bring players back, because it wont happen. Your company will go bankrupt or something bad like that will happen I promise.

ANET I don't expect you will listen to me, I am sure you wont, This is probably a waste of time but you need to know.

[Dawdler.8521]

If they where already bored of the game what does any of this matter? They would leave regardless. Thats how being bored of a game works.

[Ysmir.4986]

People thinking that alliances are actually going to come out any day is kind of hilarious.

[Gop.8713]

They would make it more fun for those of us still here though . . .

[SkyShroud.2865]

Alliance isn't a magical fix though I agree some people do believe that.Also, statistically the number of return players are few. MMORPG just isn't a game most people would come back to when they quit. It is hard to start everything again, it is even harder when you got no familiar place to return to.

[steki.1478]

Pretty sure that guilds who leave don't leave because of population reasons. If guilds have problem with that, they transfer somewhere with healthier population and stay there until it gets too overstacked then move again. It's server pride people who usually complain about population because they cant prevent people from joining/leaving their link server and they don't want to transfer away themselves.

If something is making guilds leave the game it's the bugs that dont get fixed after years, meta that doesn't change after years, pug quality that doesn't improve after years of playing. Yes, every server has those that play since launch and still have no idea how to play. Then you have leechers who only ask for commanders, but never actually join squads/voice chat and are just there to tag some bags.

Not to mention that predictable matchups are boring (alliances change this thankfully), there's no incentives to win (it MAY happen after alliances, confirmed by devs) or even be competitive. The whole gw2 rewarding system is based on participating and just standing nearby instead of doing and achieving anything. That needs to change in wvw.

I see people asking for better rewards in wvw, but there's nothing really to be rewarded for. You can do almost nothing and get the same loot like a player who does everything, and even that "everything" isn't anything that takes much skill or effort. And as long as that exist, you'll have leechers in game and people who don't bother with improving, which is quite the opposite mentality of what guilds that leave the game have.

[TheBravery.9615]

Alliances is too little, too late. It won't fix the underlying issues.

[Dayra.7405]

@Ysmir.4986 said:People thinking that alliances are actually going to come out any day is kind of hilarious.

It doesn’t really matter if they once come or not. Should they come they are so late, that you don’t need them as you mostly have players for one tier left.

[Warlord.9074]

@steki.1478 said:Pretty sure that guilds who leave don't leave because of population reasons. If guilds have problem with that, they transfer somewhere with healthier population and stay there until it gets too overstacked then move again.

The reason they did that was becasue of population reasons. That was sort of the last breath for them and that ship has already sailed.They transferred and transferred and stacked, and stacked and quit. All of this already happened. The game was/is to the point that no amount of transferring or stacking by guilds can give them content. Obviously there are still people playing this game I am not arguing over that, but it is a minuscule fraction of what there was that's just a fact. And yes any game loses players after 7 years, but wvw is not like every other game and what has happened here is no less than a tragedy and its not normal, considering everything this game had going for it.

[Sovereign.1093]

how would you attract players to try and stay in wvw?

[Warlord.9074]

@Sovereign.1093 said:how would you attract players to try and stay in wvw?

bring alliances before the end of the year, which might bring enough players back to make selling a expansion pack profitable for the company, and might keep players interested enough till this time next year. Anything less than this I think its better for the company to cancel alliances and just delete half the servers now and put the game mode on maintenance mode.

[Cambeleg.7632]

@"Sovereign.1093" said:how would you attract players to try and stay in wvw?

1. Worth rewards for incentivizing new players to join. Yes, it's a "poor" reason, but let face it: many players want their spent time rewarded fairly.

2. Real balance between teams. Call 'em servers, alliances, gangs... whatever... but change the game mode for incentivizing the balance and avoid third teams to be stomped without mercy 'cos lack of interest or feeling of helplessness 'cos not having enough coverage/population.

3. Make structures really valuable, that people really learn it's important to attack/defend/capture.

4. Balance the value of PPK (Points per kills) and PPT (Points per tick). WvW is a massive fight and siege activity field; both scoring systems should be fairly balanced, avoiding the manipulation of matchups going up and down in the leaderboard. Every server should play both systems in a healthy way, and be rewarded 'cos this reason.

5. Give a purpose to the game mode, not only the "just for the love of big battles". Give it something deeper, that offers a real motivation and repercussion.

6. Offer places for GvGs and duels where a) deaths don't cause drops in the score and b) they can happen without bothering and being bothered. If so, give them an own game mode where they can enjoy this.

7. Make roaming valuable again. This includes making guilds really a thing for the game mode, not only a nice tag and lot of buffs.

8. STOP promoting the bandwagoning, this been one of the biggest cancers in the game mode.

9. Rework the structure upgrades. Some of them killed good part of the strategy (spy globes, for example).

10. Fix the [censored] lag that is caused in Stonemist, for the sake of...

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Honestly, if you're not playing for the fun of playing at this point, alliances will change nothing.

[Warlord.9074]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Honestly, if you're not playing for the fun of playing at this point, alliances will change nothing.

Ditto, problem is no amount of rewards are going to make players come back. WvW game mode content and fun are generated by the players themselves.

[Djamonja.6453]

Yea, like several other people have said, Alliances won't make any difference now. The alliance system needed to come out a year ago at least. If it comes out in 6 or 12 months it's just going to be like 1 tier in the current system.

[steki.1478]

@Cambeleg.7632 said:

@"Sovereign.1093" said:how would you attract players to try and stay in wvw?

1. Worth rewards for incentivizing new players to join. Yes, it's a "poor" reason, but let face it: many players want their spent time rewarded fairly.

2. Real balance between teams. Call 'em servers, alliances, gangs... whatever... but change the game mode for incentivizing the balance and avoid third teams to be stomped without mercy 'cos lack of interest or feeling of helplessness 'cos not having enough coverage/population.

3. Make structures really valuable, that people really learn it's important to attack/defend/capture.

4. Balance the value of PPK (Points per kills) and PPT (Points per tick). WvW is a massive fight and siege activity field; both scoring systems should be fairly balanced, avoiding the manipulation of matchups going up and down in the leaderboard. Every server should play both systems in a healthy way, and be rewarded 'cos this reason.

5. Give a purpose to the game mode, not only the "just for the love of big battles". Give it something deeper, that offers a real motivation and repercussion.

6. Offer places for GvGs and duels where a) deaths don't cause drops in the score and b) they can happen without bothering and being bothered. If so, give them an own game mode where they can enjoy this.

7. Make roaming valuable again. This includes making guilds really a thing for the game mode, not only a nice tag and lot of buffs.

8. STOP promoting the bandwagoning, this been one of the biggest cancers in the game mode.

9. Rework the structure upgrades. Some of them killed good part of the strategy (spy globes, for example).

10. Fix the [censored] lag that is caused in Stonemist, for the sake of...

And one of the most important ones: have meaningful and regular balance patches instead of adding fluff and more powercreep to classes/builds that dont need it.

[Warlord.9074]

@Djamonja.6453 said:Yea, like several other people have said, Alliances won't make any difference now. The alliance system needed to come out a year ago at least. If it comes out in 6 or 12 months it's just going to be like 1 tier in the current system.

If it came out now there might be hope but we are fast approaching uselessness and if anet trys to sell the alliance system as an expansion it will bankrupt the company cuz it will be way to late. It really either comes out before next year or it doesn't and thats that. But yes it needed to come out 6 months ago.

[Amura.6049]

anet doesn't listen to WVW players cuz they don't care at all. i really think they are just pretending working on alliance and ppl keep spending GEM for transfer or whatever. in this way, only Anet is making money but nothing really happened. A t the very end, they will say " sorry due to budget issue we need to stop this plan" lol

[Cambeleg.7632]

@steki.1478 said:And one of the most important ones: have meaningful and regular balance patches instead of adding fluff and more powercreep to classes/builds that dont need it.

Ooooof course, I forgot to add this one. But it would involve devs playing the game mode and understanding it really, not just going here and there across the maps for streaming.

[Sugar Min.5834]

Feb 2018 ~ Announcement of AllianceJul 2018 ~ 1st Update on Alliance ProgressNov 2018 ~ 2nd Update on Progress

The last talk on Alliance is like 9 months ago. And, it has been 18 months since they first announced it.

During this long period of waiting, WvW meta has not changed at all. It's always Scourge, Firebrand and Hammer Revenant. Once, Support Scrapper was meta too but it got gutted in Jul '19 patch and now it's back to the zerg's holy trinity of Scr, Fb and Rev.

Then, as if that's not enough, they implemented private squad, encouraging more Tags to be selfish and go tagless in a WvW environment where PUGs forms a major part of the World.

More players got tired of waiting in the dark and also their feedbacks being ignored, time and again, regardless of how constructive they are.

Doubts begin to grow into beliefs that Alliance wont't be here or will be too late too little to save WvW. And even if Alliance is real, meta is still the same and more commanders will want to form only meta private squads. New system, same problems.

Slowly but surely, more and more are leaving WvW and in another six months time, It does not matter anymore. Really ANet.

[Diku.2546]

---

Look on the bright side...problems with lag should get better as population levels continue to DROP on its long-term downward trend...that's been predicted and continuously been brought up for over 3 years & counting.

---

If any of this makes sense to you...please don't forget to give a thumbs up or helpful.

---

WvW is still on a path where the game attracts & enables toxic communities which is bad for the Long-Term financial health of ANet...imho

Examples of Team-Creation Mechanics that destroys any sense of a close knit personal communities & instead encourages toxic transient communities that are impersonal & void of any soul.

1) Server Linking - Killed Guest Server Communities2) Removing Language Restrictions for EU Worlds - Unintentionally is Killing our Language based Communities3) Alliance Linking - Planned Killing of Host Server Communities

Using Guilds in Alliance Linking to replace WvW servers will change the inter-personal dynamics & allow players to further encourage the creation of toxic communities as Guild Officers decide who stays or goes in being able to win.

---

Team-Creation is not the way to go. We need to Directly REPLACE the Match-Up system.

REPLACING the Match-Up system is far more efficient to achieve the results that matter in dealing with the WvW Population Imbalance that continues to be a major problem since GW2 first launched.

Being Ranked #1 needs to be earned & come at a cost.

1) Remove & Replace the current match-up system, but keep a system for World Ranking.2) Assign each World server a "single map" to defend - (Single BL or a Single unit of Multiple BLs owned by the same server).3) Let players pick any three "server owned maps" to fight on weekly - ( Existing Server Guesting re-purposed for WvW).4) During the week show players the top three enemies attacking their "home owned maps".5) Finally only reward players when they fight on a map or an enemy map that is "Ranked Higher or Equal to" their home map.

We need a simple & straight forward solution.

---

People only hear & believe what they want to hear...everything else is irrelevant.

---

Told you so...November 2018https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/732455#Comment_732455

Future of WvW - Heartfelt warning on the future of WvW over 3 years ago.2016-05-28Copy & Paste to use linkhttps://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-Linking-Beta/page/8#post6177416

Pandora's Box - Churn & Burn warning of commanders over 3 years ago.2016-06-11Copy & Paste to use linkhttps://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-6-June-World-Linking-Schedule-CLOSED/page/5#post6197744

World Linking was a Pandora’s Genie Crack Bottle - Should never have been opened2016-10-29Copy & Paste to use linkhttps://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/NA-World-Linking-28-October/page/2#post6383421

---

Still hoping that ANet will make the necessary changes to save WvW & themselves financially by using the above insight.

---

Not sure how many feel this way, but the below is how I feel:

Many WvW veterans that have left Guild Wars 2 will quickly return...IF WvW encouraged Long-Term Communities to develop while engaging players to return to fight in Healthy Competitive match-ups.

1) Players want a stable place to call home that gives them a reason to fight & die for their Home World.2) Match-Ups need to be balanced & by player's choice...while allowing for huge population size differences between teams.

WvW can still be salvaged & brought back to its former glory days...imho

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

[Tinnel.4369]

Giving this until sometime tomorrow morning before it's deleted (censored).

[Diku.2546]

@Tinnel.4369 said:Giving this until sometime tomorrow morning before it's deleted (censored).

---

Sady...you may be right...it's a price that many have paid, but ANet does have their reasons that I've come to understand & respectfully agree by.

I don't post often nowadays...as of today...I have a total of 116 comments & 2 discussions...some of which are not all there.

I'm still hopeful that the positive intent of my feedback found here...somehow gets through to the developers to encourage them to fix WvW.

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

[Dagre.2185]

@Ysmir.4986 said:People thinking that alliances are actually going to come out any day is kind of hilarious.

well, i mean, you'd think after half a decade they could finally release it. typically takes about that long to release a fully featured and polished game.

but anyways, that 'feature' would have been fantastic years ago. at this point, the only use it'll have is to make wvw seem more populated. might as well just do the megaservers like open world now. just add a queue for people trying to get in with guildies/friends and make it easier to see a list of all the phases. the only difference this alliance system is going to have compared to megaservers is purely perception.

oh and my server being a link now, since i've returned, i have to say that this perception really doesn't matter overall.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Diku.2546 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Giving this until sometime tomorrow morning before it's deleted (censored).

---

Sady...you may be right...it's a price that many have paid, but ANet does have their reasons that I've come to understand & respectfully agree by.

I don't post often nowadays...as of today...I have a total of 116 comments & 2 discussions...some of which are not all there.

I'm still hopeful that the positive intent of my feedback found here...somehow gets through to the developers to encourage them to fix WvW.

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Constructive, well thought, feedback is typically an asset. The thread overall though....ANet has shown it's not above removing criticism it doesn't care for, regardless of how true it is. They seem to be censoring at a much higher rate of late too (unless I'm just paying more attention).