Great server organization is killing WvW ... What do you think?

[shiri.4257]

where dem fight guilds at?

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I wish WvW was more popular with the existing player base (those who are gone will probably stay gone). The population disparity is just soul crushing. As an example, the last reset, I went to the other Alpine BL (not home) the second it was available and sat there. I counted FOUR people over the next ten minutes come into the map. Needless to say we were outnumbered for the next few hours (and I saw a ping about the red BL being outnumbered as well, but that map sucks so I get that).

Once I went out of spawn, I was chased by blob after blob. I get it, they were looking for a fight, and could only find the occasional roamer wandering by. I can't imagine someone new walking into that and then ever coming back to the game.

[Gop.8713]

This really isn't that bad. Some players don't care about gameplay and only want to 'win'. They are all stacked on bg and ignored by the other servers. Everyone else is spread out on the other servers and afaik playing the game. It's no harm no foul . . .

[Syrus.2174]

Dzagonur is quite stacked, that's not debatable. But it's not as bad as things I saw before, to be honest. The main thing the server combination has going for it is its well balanced activity throughout the day, in other words, few have such an active morning time, while also boosting strong numbers at noon and evening. But interestingly there's not often more than one map with a queue lately. It does feel a bit like people from GH might have transferred elswhere, hard to tell though, considering the perceived activity drop might have to do with summer being around and all.

I'm quite certain that Dzagonur will take up Kodash's position this Friday though, as ironical as that would be, considering that's why Dzagonur had become so stacked: people transfered there because of two reasons in the beginning: they were together with Abbadon for so long, guilds has spanned both servers. They wanted to get back together, and apparently a lot of people from Kodash decided Dzagonur would be the best choice for leaving their lonely ship, being stuck without a link server on an already not too active server is not something anyone wants. It'd be really appreciated if Anet reduced EU to 4 tiers, at least then we'd not have these linkless, dead servers around.+

I left Ruins of Surmia for Gunnar's Hold, because at the time that server looked like the only "non-link server" I could join. Most others were still "Full" or server I really had no interest in ever getting involved with again (being on a link server you get to see a lot of horrible things ... I mean other servers). That was before everyone else decided that hopping onto Dzagonur would be a great idea. Can't say it was a bad time, the people were also quite decent.

It will be highly interesting to see the next tranfer wave coming this Friday. The relink balance will be gone within hours, because that's how it works.When I was on RoS, linked with Abbadon, I played till I had the pips through and left - that was quick, because we were outnumbered almost the whole time, and I usually play at prime time. That's just not fun for someone who wants to do more than roaming, and two months of that? No thank you.

Is organization at fault? Well, to some degree, because whole guilds switching the moment relinks happen causes imbalance immediatly.I think the main problem lies with having too many tiers or too few players. The last four servers (all German main servers btw) all have barely above half the acitivity of the rest, if you look at kills and deaths and do some number juggling. Of course those will never be competitive, and playing on them means you will probably die of boredom rather than running into enemies, stuck in T5 for the whole two months. It is just a pain if you end up in such a link.

And besides that, big thumbs up to the Dzago commander running his morning shift every day!That's what brings activity. Public commanders are a big factor!

[ArchonWing.9480]

@shiri.4257 said:where dem fight guilds at?

@ the new meta; talking about finding good and fair fights but doing everything possible to make sure it never actually happens

[Handin.4032]

They could fix a lot of the relink problems if they only counted hours played by players above a certain reward level (i.e. gold rewards+). For example, my server will have a lot of people afk in spawn waiting until a tag shows up or until someone calls for defense. That time is counted as "in WvW' time, even if they're not doing anything. There's no way to prevent players from doing this (We also tend to get alt accounts from the people we're fighting logging in to fill up maps or tag watch). But, setting a certain reward level (high, but not too high) would ensure they're counting the time when players are active in WvW, not passive.

Also, anet has literally no incentive to fix the current system They make much more money off the people transferring than they likely would if they set alliances in place. We have gotten 0 time estimation about alliances, and even the supposedly "quick" Warclaw patch hasn't occurred many months after it was promised.

[Offair.2563]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World

Dzagonur (DE)

Full

+ Gunnar's Hold

Medium

The server is completely overstacked atm. When you field a 30-40 mann squad with 5-15 randoms at 10 in the morning while other servers barely have 30 people on all maps together, that's population advantage. Now add in the winners advantage of people on losing sides logging off, and you multiply the advantage even more.

You should check na T1And that's 1 server

Sure, let's check NA T1:

Blackgate

Full

+ Kaineng

Medium

- total dominanceFerguson's Crossing

High

+ Jade Quarry

Medium

- second with 50 points behind (similat to EU T1)Borlis Pass

Medium

+ Henge of Denravi

Medium

- last with 70 points behind first

Exact same situation. Blackgate+Kaineng are overstacked and crushing the other 2 servers. Where is the difference?

Kainengs pretty dead atm and bg has mapq ktrains 24/7 and check WvW stats its enough to not tick Below 220

And while you there check the globale dominance in player timezones...you notice gh+dzag to be in top for everythingBg Just to be first in everything

Yes, Kaineng probably just as dead as Gunnars, which still makes them probably provide 20-30% more WvW population.

You are also comaparing a single langauge, similar time zone matchup against a multi language, multiple time zones machtup. You do realize that especially Baruch Bay in EU for example sees a lot of night play from spanish speaking players from accross the world?

I'm just tired of this nonsensical flexing of "oh we are so organized" bs. It's population advantage. Always has been.

Those flexes are a compensation for small weeners.

[SWI.4127]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Swamurabi.7890 said:

@Dayra.7405 said:

@Swamurabi.7890 said:WvW would be more fun if Anet balanced populations based on skirmish results instead of player-hours, population or coverage.

That is not an absolute number, but depends on the opponents you have, e.g. Elona dominates T5, but lost T4.Using play-hours in fact makes sense, as play-hour differences ARE the main reason to dominate or get dominated.

Linking based on population in fact works quite well, but as long as the transfer system is not fixed, it only works for one week, then people stack together on the selected winner to get easier wins.

Equal player-hours does not mean equal competition. Please explain BG's now 43-0-0 skirmish record this match as being "competitive"

Coaxing the other servers out to play is more the issue.

And yes, BG shouldn’t have opened. The new devs haven’t seen the issue.

Left it on autopilot.

But the only reason why it’s 43-0-0 is because the other servers aren’t playing.

Again. It’s their choice.

You act like the servers are choosing not to play. In BP's case, the population isn't there. It's 2 medium servers linked. My guild has been raiding most days and we are outnumbered during the entire raid. We shouldn't even be in T1 yet the minimal amount of population we have still managed to win T2 because population is down EVERYWHERE. Luckily we enjoy fighting outnumbered, but is it any mystery why most servers do not like T1? Also why are we acting like 43-0-0 is some anomaly when it's been this way for years. BG cares the most about winning BY FAR and will do whatever it takes to win, no matter how detrimental it is to the game.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@SWI.4127 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Swamurabi.7890 said:

@Dayra.7405 said:

@Swamurabi.7890 said:WvW would be more fun if Anet balanced populations based on skirmish results instead of player-hours, population or coverage.

That is not an absolute number, but depends on the opponents you have, e.g. Elona dominates T5, but lost T4.Using play-hours in fact makes sense, as play-hour differences ARE the main reason to dominate or get dominated.

Linking based on population in fact works quite well, but as long as the transfer system is not fixed, it only works for one week, then people stack together on the selected winner to get easier wins.

Equal player-hours does not mean equal competition. Please explain BG's now 43-0-0 skirmish record this match as being "competitive"

Coaxing the other servers out to play is more the issue.

And yes, BG shouldn’t have opened. The new devs haven’t seen the issue.

Left it on autopilot.

But the only reason why it’s 43-0-0 is because the other servers aren’t playing.

Again. It’s their choice.

You act like the servers are choosing not to play. In BP's case, the population isn't there. It's 2 medium servers linked. My guild has been raiding most days and we are outnumbered during the entire raid. We shouldn't even be in T1 yet the minimal amount of population we have still managed to win T2 because population is down EVERYWHERE. Luckily we enjoy fighting outnumbered, but is it any mystery why most servers do not like T1? Also why are we acting like 43-0-0 is some anomaly when it's been this way for years. BG cares the most about winning BY FAR and will do whatever it takes to win, no matter how detrimental it is to the game.

I am not acting like anything.

It is the truth.

I will say, some of the small scale fights we’ve enjoyed (3-5) have been fun. Small groups are out there.

And I never said those groups have the numbers to beat BG. But 43 straight skirmishes is essentially tanking

Which I don’t blame them. But call it what it is.

[LetoII.3782]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:But call it what it is.

I'd call it denying the inevitable winner an opponent just managing to resist enough to make their win feel earned. Instead, Anet gets lowered numbers for their folly and BG gets another week of loitering to glory.

After all this time, it's the only sane course of action.

[shiri.4257]

@SWI.4127 said:but is it any mystery why most servers do not like T1?

because no one likes losing. it's ok mate, just transfer til you win!

[SWI.4127]

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:I am not acting like anything.

It is the truth.

I will say, some of the small scale fights we’ve enjoyed (3-5) have been fun. Small groups are out there.

And I never said those groups have the numbers to beat BG. But 43 straight skirmishes is essentially tanking

Which I don’t blame them. But call it what it is.

It's not tanking, people just don't play the game because it's not fun in its current state. Do you not see that? Nobody wants to have to poke T3 BG structures to get even the slightest semblance of a "fight". Which turns out being sitting in siege and getting clouded by 30 pugs for 15 minutes until a tag comes by with another 20+ to wipe you. So what you're saying is that the other servers in T1 should just grin and bear it getting blobbed by superior numbers? Why? How about BG changes its ways? You heavily implied that the responsibility is on the players because they don't "choose" to play. Please look in the mirror and realize how much this server is hurting the entire game mode.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@SWI.4127 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:I am not acting like anything.

It is the truth.

I will say, some of the small scale fights we’ve enjoyed (3-5) have been fun. Small groups are out there.

And I never said those groups have the numbers to beat BG. But 43 straight skirmishes is essentially tanking

Which I don’t blame them. But call it what it is.

It's not tanking, people just don't play the game because it's not fun in its current state. Do you not see that? Nobody wants to have to poke T3 BG structures to get even the slightest semblance of a "fight". Which turns out being sitting in siege and getting clouded by 30 pugs for 15 minutes until a tag comes by with another 20+ to wipe you. So what you're saying is that the other servers in T1 should just grin and bear it getting blobbed by superior numbers? Why? How about BG changes its ways? You heavily implied that the responsibility is on the players because they don't "choose" to play. Please look in the mirror and realize how much this server is hurting the entire game mode.

I would say you inferred it but meh.

Yes, BG bears responsibility. If you read my history, I have always advocated for BG to remain closed and not get a link. Even when BG listed at Very High, they were dominating T1. Part of that was their link, yes.

And the reverse holds true for the other servers. Coordinate, run a 2v1.

Or let one server remain in what amounts to the updated glicko hell.

The group I run with will still see fun, as when you are running 3-7, people engage you.

[Eremes Guile.1480]

@SWI.4127 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:I am not acting like anything.

It is the truth.

I will say, some of the small scale fights we’ve enjoyed (3-5) have been fun. Small groups are out there.

And I never said those groups have the numbers to beat BG. But 43 straight skirmishes is essentially tanking

Which I don’t blame them. But call it what it is.

It's not tanking, people just don't play the game because it's not fun in its current state. Do you not see that? Nobody wants to have to poke T3 BG structures to get even the slightest semblance of a "fight". Which turns out being sitting in siege and getting clouded by 30 pugs for 15 minutes until a tag comes by with another 20+ to wipe you. So what you're saying is that the other servers in T1 should just grin and bear it getting blobbed by superior numbers? Why? How about BG changes its ways? You heavily implied that the responsibility is on the players because they don't "choose" to play. Please look in the mirror and realize how much this server is hurting the entire game mode.

Yeap, just like SOS, and Kaineng, when they beat BG only to implode. So next plan is to beat BG, and implode after a few weeks. And BG re-gain the t1 spot again and all the server implode again, and all the fight guilds quit again, log in to the forums and cry "LOOK MAA BG IS BLOBBING AGAIN". Rinse and repeat.

This game is old af, you won't be getting any more fresh blood. Guild's are done with this game and have moved on. If you're still trying to beat x server, maybe you should re-consider spending your gaming time wisely.

[Sovereign.1093]

its easy to hate bg if everyone else is lazy. =p

[SWI.4127]

@"Eremes Guile.1480" said:

Yeap, just like SOS, and Kaineng, when they beat BG only to implode. So next plan is to beat BG, and implode after a few weeks. And BG re-gain the t1 spot again and all the server implode again, and all the fight guilds quit again, log in to the forums and cry "LOOK MAA BG IS BLOBBING AGAIN". Rinse and repeat.

This game is old af, you won't be getting any more fresh blood. Guild's are done with this game and have moved on. If you're still trying to beat x server, maybe you should re-consider spending your gaming time wisely.

The fact that you think people only do things in this game to "beat BG" is very telling. Like I said nobody cares about winning other than BG.

[Sovereign.1093]

@SWI.4127 said:

@"Eremes Guile.1480" said:

Yeap, just like SOS, and Kaineng, when they beat BG only to implode. So next plan is to beat BG, and implode after a few weeks. And BG re-gain the t1 spot again and all the server implode again, and all the fight guilds quit again, log in to the forums and cry "LOOK MAA BG IS BLOBBING AGAIN". Rinse and repeat.

This game is old af, you won't be getting any more fresh blood. Guild's are done with this game and have moved on. If you're still trying to beat x server, maybe you should re-consider spending your gaming time wisely.

The fact that you think people only do things in this game to "beat BG" is very telling. Like I said nobody cares about winning other than BG.

i think another issue is how do we make people care?

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Coaxing the other servers out to play is more the issue.But the only reason why it’s 43-0-0 is because the other servers aren’t playing.Again. It’s their choice.

Mostly it's coaxing the other servers out to die is the issue, that's relatively difficult, which makes the choice from their perspective mostly one sided.

@Swamurabi.7890 said:So BG is affecting the other servers in T1 to NOT play and also affecting the THREE servers in T2 to NOT win.Sadly this is on the mark here, as my server is one of the two bouncing between t1 and t2 this is exactly how it is. The level of effort that goes into NOT winning t2 by servers is more amazing than any other coordination I've seen in this game. T3 and T4 have by far been the most entertaining tiers, but it's hard to stay in them. I expect my server to not even be a host server by the next link, I feel bad for whichever server takes our place next.

[SWI.4127]

@Sovereign.1093 said:i think another issue is how do we make people care?

The post above illustrates it as well. Not only is there no incentive to win, there is actually disincentive to win T2 for instance. Sadly I think the biggest issue is that in order to do what it takes to win, you have to play a very boring style. Most people simply don't want to spend time walking yaks, scouting 24/7, etc. I can't say I blame them either.

[Sovereign.1093]

@SWI.4127 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:i think another issue is how do we make people care?

The post above illustrates it as well. Not only is there no incentive to win, there is actually

disincentive

to win T2 for instance. Sadly I think the biggest issue is that in order to do what it takes to win, you have to play a very boring style. Most people simply don't want to spend time walking yaks, scouting 24/7, etc. I can't say I blame them either.

i mean, how do we make people care?

bring back tournaments <3

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@SWI.4127 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:I am not acting like anything.

It is the truth.

I will say, some of the small scale fights we’ve enjoyed (3-5) have been fun. Small groups are out there.

And I never said those groups have the numbers to beat BG. But 43 straight skirmishes is essentially tanking

Which I don’t blame them. But call it what it is.

It's not tanking, people just don't play the game because it's not fun in its current state. Do you not see that? Nobody wants to have to poke T3 BG structures to get even the slightest semblance of a "fight". Which turns out being sitting in siege and getting clouded by 30 pugs for 15 minutes until a tag comes by with another 20+ to wipe you. So what you're saying is that the other servers in T1 should just grin and bear it getting blobbed by superior numbers? Why? How about BG changes its ways? You heavily implied that the responsibility is on the players because they don't "choose" to play. Please look in the mirror and realize how much this server is hurting the entire game mode.

It's more about the servers "not playing" than BG actually playing. The other T1 server actually has more, or they had more (not sure about now after they opened), but they had more guilds, more players, and more commanders. Problem was, they primarily all played on the weekend and never during the week. Then we have BG chugging along with 2-3 commanders playing almost daily between them with the same size group they had on the weekend that got crushed by the bigger blob.

BG has more pugs that play, so where exactly are all the pugs on the other servers? Did they get lost, quit, grew bored of the constant guilds shuffling around destroying their server? Surely all those "fight guilds" that constantly moved, closed their squads / ran hidden, and/or wouldn't let pugs join couldn't have had anything to do with the drop in population could it.... hmmmm

Would matter if BG was deleted and their numbers dispersed, if all these guilds that couldn't even hold a candle to BG's pugs continued the way they did and currently do, their numbers will continue to fall to the point they won't have anyone to run with or fight.

[SWI.4127]

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

The other T1 server actually has more, or they had more (not sure about now after they opened), but they had more guilds, more players, and more commanders. Problem was, they primarily all played on the weekend and never during the week. Then we have BG chugging along with 2-3 commanders playing almost daily between them with the same size group they had on the weekend that got crushed by the bigger blob.

BG has more pugs that play, so where exactly are all the pugs on the other servers? Did they get lost, quit, grew bored of the constant guilds shuffling around destroying their server? Surely all those "fight guilds" that constantly moved, closed their squads / ran hidden, and/or wouldn't let pugs join couldn't have had anything to do with the drop in population could it.... hmmmm

Would matter if BG was deleted and their numbers dispersed, if all these guilds that couldn't even hold a candle to BG's pugs continued the way they did and currently do, their numbers will continue to fall to the point they won't have anyone to run with or fight.

No server has more than BG. Full + Medium server (BG) vs High + Medium (FC) vs Medium + Medium (BP) right now. It's actually not even close.

Where are the pugs on the other servers? They either 1) never existed, 2) quit the game, 3) transferred (gee I wonder where). Must be nice being on the #1 destination server for years while asking other servers "jeez just get some pugs" lol. You guys are so out of touch, it's insane.

[shiri.4257]

The amount of quitters in wvw are more detrimental to the game mode than BG.

[aceofbass.2163]

@XANRAT.9367 said:It is what humans belive that well organized and focused is ultimately efficient yet look at our planet. Ultimate domination is inferior and self destructive as it lacks the checks and balances of the ultimate force of chaos.

Was this edge really necessary? lol