For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras!

[Bazsi.2734]

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Once again; Mesmer Profession is not the problem but +1 shotting trash design is. The only profession whose +1 shotting has never been nerfed is Thief Profession.

I don't really understand why some players fail to see that. +1 Shotting Thief is the sole longest Profession for 8 Years+ who is to be blamed for Guild Wars 2 population drop. As many including many others has pointed to Anet since Guild Wars 2 beta countless times; +1 shotting Thief Profession needed to be immediately nerfed because it will spread its damage to other Guild Wars 2 Profession Balances.

The is what happens when not dealing with the root cause; it spreads

8 Years later; +1 shotting has spread to all Professions

The reason that Mesmer gets the highlight is because Mesmer is a popular Profession including its clones designs; something that completely defies its original design and its root from Guild Wars 1

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mesmer

The damage has been done and is irreversible. With 8 years of Professions balancing; it has continually and countlessly made clear: +1 shotting is a good thing for the health of the game, it is here to stay.

The next upcoming Profession balance PatchThief Profession continuously and repeatedly remain excused as the root cause of the other Profession instability

'The Elephant In The Room'- The Root CauseThe only solution is to completely remove Thief Profession as the root cause of +1 shotting design

Game Over

Asking for Mesmer Profession to be nerfed will not resolve anything

People asking to remove an entire profession gives me such nostalgic feelings.... Is it 2012 november again? If I ignore where you said 8 years, this would fit so perfectly!

[Erzian.5218]

I think we need more clips of dying thieves, Mesmers and other squishy builds. Perhaps a fresh air ele.Fortunately, the majority of players (EU) doesn’t suffer from from the dominance of the invincible mantra because players are more honorable, thus fair and balanced builds like holosmith are popular instead. :)

[shadowpass.4236]

@Erzian.5218 said:I think we need more clips of dying thieves, Mesmers and other squishy builds. Perhaps a fresh air ele.Fortunately, the majority of players (EU) doesn’t suffer from from the dominance of the invincible mantra because players are more honorable, thus fair and balanced builds like holosmith are popular instead. :)

One of the stalwart mesmer defendants on the forums also seems to struggle very hard against condi thieves on EU. So, there seems to be more of a L2P issue on EU than NA.

• NA doesn't have a condi thief epidemic because we know how to fight against them.
• EU doesn't have any good mantra mesmers because none of them know how to play it effectively.

Also, I have an issue with oneshot builds across the board. However, mantra mesmer is the most reliable, frequent, survivable, fastest, and easiest to set up and land. This burst is also an AoE unlike a few of the other oneshot builds.

[Tayga.3192]

@shadowpass.4236 said:One of the stalwart mesmer defendants on the forums also seems to struggle very hard against condi thieves on EU. So, there seems to be more of a L2P issue on EU than NA.

• NA doesn't have a condi thief epidemic because we know how to fight against them.
• EU doesn't have any good mantra mesmers because none of them know how to play it effectively.

NA's advantage is having the only somewhat competitive sPvP team, not saying they are good or bad.Otherwise, EU and NA are equally bad but there are more mesmers in NA compared to more thieves in EU.

Also, I have an issue with oneshot builds across the board. However, mantra mesmer if the most reliable, frequent, survivable, fastest, and easiest to set up and land. This burst is also an AoE unlike a few of the other oneshot builds.

I agree that oneshot builds should be deleted but not by nerfing mantras. As I said, just rework MoP and GS.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:One of the stalwart mesmer defendants on the forums also seems to struggle very hard against condi thieves on EU. So, there seems to be more of a L2P issue on EU than NA.

• NA doesn't have a condi thief epidemic because we know how to fight against them.
• EU doesn't have any good mantra mesmers because none of them know how to play it effectively.

NA's advantage is having the only somewhat competitive sPvP team, not saying they are good or bad.Otherwise, EU and NA are equally bad but there are more mesmers in NA compared to more thieves in EU.

Also, I have an issue with oneshot builds across the board. However, mantra mesmer if the most reliable, frequent, survivable, fastest, and easiest to set up and land. This burst is also an AoE unlike a few of the other oneshot builds.

I agree that oneshot builds should be deleted but not by nerfing mantras. As I said, just rework MoP and GS.

Yes I agree with you. Both regions are equally good/bad in terms of player skill. EU just has more decent players so the match quality is better.

In my opinion, I don't think GS is an issue. There are non-oneshot power builds that use GS that actually require skill to kill people.

I'd like it if Anet were to remove damage modifiers from affecting attacks in stealth, remove Berserker Amulet from PvP, and nerf/rework mesmer mantras heavily.

[rwolf.9571]

As a Power Mantra Chrono. Meh whatever. It's only fun and viable up to mid-gold. Power Mantra builds are pretty useless higher up.

[viquing.8254]

@shadowpass.4236 said:condi thief epidemic because we know how to fight against them.

Thanks for the laugh.Ofc mantra mesmer win vs condi thief =) =) =) .You are that skilled that you anticipate each instant teleport from out of LoS, teach me please because with only 18 sec cd and 30 sec cd condi clear and random from Auspicious anguish, a fail = death.Not to say that once you get weakness you are useless.That's what I said, there is that few good players so that mantra mesmer can proliferate and one shot everything. We can agree about the l2p issue then.

[praqtos.9035]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Erzian.5218 said:I think we need more clips of dying thieves, Mesmers and other squishy builds. Perhaps a fresh air ele.Fortunately, the majority of players (EU) doesn’t suffer from from the dominance of the invincible mantra because players are more honorable, thus fair and balanced builds like holosmith are popular instead. :)

One of the stalwart mesmer defendants on the forums also seems to struggle very hard against condi thieves on EU. So, there seems to be more of a L2P issue on EU than NA.And NA has stalwart mesmer hater that cant l2p against mesmers(one trick pony lol)... L2p memes.

• EU doesn't have a mantra mesmers because we know how to fight against them.So, there seems to be more of a L2P issue for them.
• EU doesn't have any good mantra mesmers because none of them know how to play it effectively.Dont remember good mesmers playing double mantra ever, otherwise they would be farmed and stay in gold/p1. Do we even have any power mesmer left actually ?

[viquing.8254]

@praqtos.9035 :The only power mesmer I met this season and who actually is in top 50 was playing in duoQ at 3 a.m. (during off peak night.) so that's it, a killing noob build.

[shadowpass.4236]

@viquing.8254 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:condi thief epidemic because we know how to fight against them.

Thanks for the laugh.Ofc mantra mesmer win vs condi thief =) =) =) .You are that skilled that you anticipate each instant teleport from out of LoS, teach me please because with only 18 sec cd and 30 sec cd condi clear and random from Auspicious anguish, a fail = death.Not to say that once you get weakness you are useless.That's what I said, there is that few good players so that mantra mesmer can proliferate and one shot everything. We can agree about the l2p issue then.

You can react to the sword 2 teleport immobilize every single time if you look at when the nameplate disappears. Also, if you stand on the shadow return spot it makes it a lot harder for the thief to kite.

Letting a thief use his sword 2 freely is probably why you have issues against them. Also, the instant I get condi bombed (if I don't evade it/Blurred Frenzy), I'll distort, swap to s/t, and torch 4 to cleanse 4 condis and stealth. Then, I can blink away, mass invis, go for a oneshot on the thief, or stand on a no-port spot if I want to counter the teleports.

I can also just Mirror cancel the Lotus Training dodge to completely neuter the condi application for 2 seconds every 4 seconds.

[shadowpass.4236]

@praqtos.9035 said:And NA has stalwart mesmer hater that cant l2p against mesmers(one trick pony lol)... L2p memes.Dont remember good mesmers playing double mantra ever, otherwise they would be farmed and stay in gold/p1. Do we even have any power mesmer left actually ?

I actually have played mesmer almost exclusively this season and am currently 1622, top 30 NA on a build (glass cannon core mesmer) that I have very little experience on. My win ratio on mesmer is also higher than what I get on my ranger.

I find mesmer very fun to play because of how easy it is coupled with the low-risk, high-reward balancing approach Anet has taken with the class. I have never had easier games or an easier time farming ranked. Either way, I can recognize when certain aspects of the class are broken. I have also petitioned for nerfs to Sic Em ranger and bunker Boonbeast so this applies to my own class as well.

Again, Mur has been in the top 10 consistently on mantra mesmer nearly every single season. He's way better than I am at the build so it's been proven that it works at a high level (because it can insta kill the best players in the game without giving them a chance to fight back) as well as how incredibly easy it is to pick up and be effective for a relatively inexperienced mesmer player.

[shadowpass.4236]

@rwolf.9571 said:As a Power Mantra Chrono. Meh whatever. It's only fun and viable up to mid-gold. Power Mantra builds are pretty useless higher up.

Mur and CJ have both been in the top 10 consistently on mantra mesmer since the leaderboards were first introduced. I also recently picked it up a few days ago with close to zero experience on mantras and am currently in the top 30 with core berserker mesmer.

It's actually more effective the higher up you go because you can instantly kill the best player on the enemy team without giving him a chance to fight back as well as basically guarantee a kill every 12-30 seconds. It's very easily one of the strongest carry builds in ranked asides from tools holo.

[praqtos.9035]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:And NA has stalwart mesmer hater that cant l2p against mesmers(one trick pony lol)... L2p memes.Dont remember good mesmers playing double mantra ever, otherwise they would be farmed and stay in gold/p1. Do we even have any power mesmer left actually ?

I actually have played mesmer almost exclusively this season and am currently 1622, top 30 NA on a build (glass cannon

core

mesmer) that I have very little experience on. My win ratio on mesmer is also higher than what I get on my ranger.

I find mesmer very fun to play because of how easy it is coupled with the low-risk, high-reward balancing approach Anet has taken with the class. I have never had easier games or an easier time farming ranked. Either way, I can recognize when certain aspects of the class are broken. I have also petitioned for nerfs to Sic Em ranger and bunker Boonbeast so this applies to my own class as well.

Again, Mur has been in the top 10 consistently on mantra mesmer nearly every single season. He's way better than I am at the build so it's been proven that it works at a high level (because it can insta kill the best players in the game without giving them a chance to fight back) as well as how incredibly easy it is to pick up and be effective for a relatively inexperienced mesmer player.Did you said yourself tht mesmer is one of your most played classes? "Relativy inexperienced mesmer player".How you cant see that your thread looks like : "Omygod, certain player is good with certain build, just delete it please". (but its about mantras that nobody use and not being that good as you describe)I have told also that greatsword need a full rework to go away from a being a niche oneshot weapon . On EU if I would actually play vs best players that left, I would be on the respawn for the entire game most certainly.The only time it did work well on oneshotting everyone was unranked vs potatos, the rest didnt well that and nowhere near the god mode you described, add to it "relatively inexperineced mesmer player" and he wont get any results.I dont even play it myself, if they remove PU or delete MoP it wouldnt even affect me. I dont like PU/stealth spam builds myself, I would like also to see them gutted/reworked. Berserk amulet can be deleted too, if you think that helps, anyway only troll/oneshot builds use it. So tldr: I agree that oneshot builds shouldnt be a thing.

[shadowpass.4236]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:And NA has stalwart mesmer hater that cant l2p against mesmers(one trick pony lol)... L2p memes.Dont remember good mesmers playing double mantra ever, otherwise they would be farmed and stay in gold/p1. Do we even have any power mesmer left actually ?

I actually have played mesmer almost exclusively this season and am currently 1622, top 30 NA on a build (glass cannon

core

mesmer) that I have very little experience on. My win ratio on mesmer is also higher than what I get on my ranger.

I find mesmer very fun to play because of how easy it is coupled with the low-risk, high-reward balancing approach Anet has taken with the class. I have never had easier games or an easier time farming ranked. Either way, I can recognize when certain aspects of the class are broken. I have also petitioned for nerfs to Sic Em ranger and bunker Boonbeast so this applies to my own class as well.

Again, Mur has been in the top 10 consistently on mantra mesmer nearly every single season. He's way better than I am at the build so it's been proven that it works at a high level (because it can insta kill the best players in the game without giving them a chance to fight back) as well as how incredibly easy it is to pick up and be effective for a relatively inexperienced mesmer player.Did you said yourself tht mesmer is one of your most played classes? "Relativy inexperienced mesmer player".How you cant see that your thread looks like : "Omygod, certain player is good with certain build, just delete it please". (but its about mantras that nobody use and not being that good as you describe)I have told also that greatsword need a full rework to go away from a being a niche oneshot weapon (but they most likely wont). On EU if I would actually play vs best players that EU left, I would be on the respawn for the entire game most certainly.The only time it did work well on oneshotting everyone was unranked vs potatos, the rest didnt well that and nowhere near the god mode you described, add to it "relatively inexperineced mesmer player" and he wont get any results.I dont even play it myself, if they remove PU or delete MoP it wouldnt even affect me. Berserk amulet can be deleted too, if you think that helps :P . Power mes had enough nerfs.

I meant very little experience on core berserker mantra mesmer. I rarely touched this class during core or HoT and only started learning it after PoF came out. Up until recently, I also haven't practiced with mantras at all. So, the fact that I'm destroying people and rarely dying on a glass cannon spec that I just started playing just goes to show how easy it is for anyone to pick up.

Lol you are such a hypocrite. You tell me I'm exaggerating my claims about mantra mesmer, yet I have plenty of proof to back up my arguments. Meanwhile, people are telling you condi thieves aren't that hard to deal with, yet you insist they are without any reasons asides from the fact that they apply a few cover condis on dodge and you can't be bothered to stand on their return spot.

Greatsword is not a niche oneshot weapon. There are very well-rounded power builds on mesmer that actually require skill to set up kills. If you think it's only good for oneshots, you don't know how to use it properly.

I have oneshotted several high tier players recently (and consistently), including a few players who played competitively back in the day. YOU think the build is only good against "potatoes" because no one (including you) on EU can seem to play the build properly and don't know how to fight against condi thieves.

[Quadox.7834]

People should stop coming up with convoluted yet nonsensical and incomplete suggestions like "Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ" and of course adding "EZ" to the end to pretend that they are smart, while of course ignoring that the first hit would put you out of stealth and thus you would do full damage anyway. In other words it would only work for single-hit heavy-hitters like deadeye.

Second, targeting shit like mantra of recovery, mantra of concentration and fucking sword autoattack is just unintelligent unless the entire thesis of the post is to ruin its own credibility.

Third, it is sad that there even is a discussion to begin with, just delete mantra of pain and the prismatic understanding stealth extension, nobody above silver 2 has ever cared about or liked those.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"Quadox.7834" said:People should stop coming up with convoluted yet nonsensical and incomplete suggestions like "Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ" and of course adding "EZ" to the end to pretend that they are smart, while of course ignoring that the first hit would put you out of stealth and thus you would do full damage anyway. In other words it would only work for single-hit heavy-hitters like deadeye.

Second, targeting kitten like mantra of recovery, mantra of concentration and kitten sword autoattack is just unintelligent unless the entire thesis of the post is to ruin its own credibility.

Third, it is sad that there even is a discussion to begin with, just delete mantra of pain and the prismatic understanding stealth extension, nobody above silver 2 has ever cared about or liked those.

'nonsensical and incomplete suggestions??'

-Only in Guild Wars 2-

[Erzian.5218]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Erzian.5218 said:I think we need more clips of dying thieves, Mesmers and other squishy builds. Perhaps a fresh air ele.Fortunately, the majority of players (EU) doesn’t suffer from from the dominance of the invincible mantra because players are more honorable, thus fair and balanced builds like holosmith are popular instead. :)

One of the stalwart mesmer defendants on the forums also seems to struggle very hard against condi thieves on EU. So, there seems to be more of a L2P issue on EU than NA.

• NA doesn't have a condi thief epidemic because we know how to fight against them.
• EU doesn't have any good mantra mesmers because none of them know how to play it effectively.

Also, I have an issue with oneshot builds across the board. However, mantra mesmer is the most reliable, frequent, survivable, fastest, and easiest to set up and land. This burst is also an AoE unlike a few of the other oneshot builds.

+

@shadowpass.4236 said:I meant very little experience on core berserker mantra mesmer. I rarely touched this class during core or HoT and only started learning it after PoF came out. Up until recently, I also haven't practiced with mantras at all. So, the fact that I'm destroying people and rarely dying on a glass cannon spec that I just started playing just goes to show how easy it is for anyone to pick up.

Make up your mind. Claiming that nobody in the region with the larger player base can figure out how to play a build that's easy to pick up is laughable.

the "condi thief epidemic" is kind of a myth above gold anyway. At least in my last 10 games or so, there were more holos, spellbreakers, and i think even revenants than condi thieves.

[shadowpass.4236]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:And NA has stalwart mesmer hater that cant l2p against mesmers(one trick pony lol)... L2p memes.Dont remember good mesmers playing double mantra ever, otherwise they would be farmed and stay in gold/p1. Do we even have any power mesmer left actually ?

I actually have played mesmer almost exclusively this season and am currently 1622, top 30 NA on a build (glass cannon

core

mesmer) that I have very little experience on. My win ratio on mesmer is also higher than what I get on my ranger.

I find mesmer very fun to play because of how easy it is coupled with the low-risk, high-reward balancing approach Anet has taken with the class. I have never had easier games or an easier time farming ranked. Either way, I can recognize when certain aspects of the class are broken. I have also petitioned for nerfs to Sic Em ranger and bunker Boonbeast so this applies to my own class as well.

Again, Mur has been in the top 10 consistently on mantra mesmer nearly every single season. He's way better than I am at the build so it's been proven that it works at a high level (because it can insta kill the best players in the game without giving them a chance to fight back) as well as how incredibly easy it is to pick up and be effective for a relatively inexperienced mesmer player.Did you said yourself tht mesmer is one of your most played classes? "Relativy inexperienced mesmer player".How you cant see that your thread looks like : "Omygod, certain player is good with certain build, just delete it please". (but its about mantras that nobody use and not being that good as you describe)I have told also that greatsword need a full rework to go away from a being a niche oneshot weapon (but they most likely wont). On EU if I would actually play vs best players that EU left, I would be on the respawn for the entire game most certainly.The only time it did work well on oneshotting everyone was unranked vs potatos, the rest didnt well that and nowhere near the god mode you described, add to it "relatively inexperineced mesmer player" and he wont get any results.I dont even play it myself, if they remove PU or delete MoP it wouldnt even affect me. Berserk amulet can be deleted too, if you think that helps :P . Power mes had enough nerfs.

I meant very little experience on core berserker mantra mesmer. I rarely touched this class during core or HoT and only started learning it after PoF came out. Up until recently, I also haven't practiced with mantras at all. So, the fact that I'm destroying people and rarely dying on a glass cannon spec that I just started playing just goes to show how easy it is for anyone to pick up.

Lol you are such a hypocrite. You tell me I'm exaggerating my claims about mantra mesmer, yet I have plenty of proof to back up my arguments. Meanwhile, people are telling you condi thieves aren't that hard to deal with, yet you insist they are without any reasons asides from the fact that they apply a few cover condis on dodge and you can't be bothered to stand on their return spot.I'm not the only one who is saying that.Many of them dont even play mesmer to begin with, so its not like "mesmers mains defend their broken build".The most funniest proof you had zeromis that seen the purple smoke and sound but pretend he didnt see anything or another "best NA player" went 1x3 and died like a regular gold player, didnt even use photon wall or invul when he clearly seen everything. If your godly mantra mesmer would be that insane OP that noobs can play it would be 2 mantra mesmers every game.Greatsword is not a niche oneshot weapon. There are very well-rounded power builds on mesmer that actually require skill to set up kills. If you think it's only good for oneshots, you don't know how to use it properly.The same old burst combo from 2012 and with mirage ambush spam. Clearly dont know what its made for /sI have oneshotted several high tier players recently (and consistently), including a few players who played competitively back in the day. YOU think the build is only good against "potatoes" because no one (including you) on EU can seem to play the build properly and don't know how to fight against condi thieves.Wow, so pro, want a candy? You claim its can be played by inexperienced players but then you claim I cant play it and the entire EU region. A meme build that is doing great at NA only, I wonder why :)Mur and CJ have both been in the top 10 consistently on mantra mesmerSo they should delete a build that played by 2 good mesmers... Nerf good players plox.

The "most funniest" thing I find is that you completely leave out details in order to attempt to warp an argument into your favor.

Zeromis was literally 1v2ing on point and the sound cue for the smoke wouldn't have been heard from that far away. In other words, if he wasn't glancing directly behind him during the .25 seconds the torch stealth animation was playing from over the ledge of the ramp, he wouldn't have had any idea Shorts was there. Again, need I reiterate? Zeromis was ONE v TWO on point. So he was probably focused on the two players he could actually see instead of thinking to himself, "Well, there might be a mesmer right next to me that stealthed from halfway across the map that can deal 20k damage instantly out of stealth! I should dodge now, right?"

Seeing as how you clearly haven't actually read my posts, a bronze tier player that knows how to do the mantra burst properly would be able to consistently oneshot the best players in this game without giving them the ability to fight back.

You can't go and say, "It doesn't work against good players." Then when I have proof of it working reliably against good players, you go, "Haha, that doesn't mean anything." Lol like do you even know how to formulate an argument? All you do is just doubt everything the other person says and try to downplay their posts instead of providing evidence for your own responses. Get real here.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Quadox.7834" said:People should stop coming up with convoluted yet nonsensical and incomplete suggestions like "Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ" and of course adding "EZ" to the end to pretend that they are smart, while of course ignoring that the first hit would put you out of stealth and thus you would do full damage anyway. In other words it would only work for single-hit heavy-hitters like deadeye.

Second, targeting kitten like mantra of recovery, mantra of concentration and kitten sword autoattack is just unintelligent unless the entire thesis of the post is to ruin its own credibility.

Third, it is sad that there even is a discussion to begin with, just delete mantra of pain and the prismatic understanding stealth extension, nobody above silver 2 has ever cared about or liked those.

Then make it work like Hidden Killer and have the damage modifier removal linger for 2 seconds out of stealth. This would solve the issue.

You've probably missed a few metas or don't have the creativity or math skills to understand how effective those healing/utility/weapon skills are.

1. Mantra of Recovery has an incredible amount of healing on a short cooldown. It gives between 6555-10155 health on a 10 second cooldown with ZERO healing power investment that can proc on-heal runes frequently.
2. Mantra of Concentration is a 15s cooldown double stun break that also gives other powerful boons.
3. Mind Spike hitting for 7k just by autoattacking after stripping all of their boons with a shatter combo is usually more than enough to kill them.
4. PU has always been busted. The entire Chaos traitline makes mesmers extremely difficult to kill. There are currently builds in ranked that allow mesmers to escape and reset fights every 30 seconds. They are nearly untouchable by power, condi, and ranged damage.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Erzian.5218 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Erzian.5218 said:I think we need more clips of dying thieves, Mesmers and other squishy builds. Perhaps a fresh air ele.Fortunately, the majority of players (EU) doesn’t suffer from from the dominance of the invincible mantra because players are more honorable, thus fair and balanced builds like holosmith are popular instead. :)

One of the stalwart mesmer defendants on the forums also seems to struggle very hard against condi thieves on EU. So, there seems to be more of a L2P issue on EU than NA.

• NA doesn't have a condi thief epidemic because we know how to fight against them.
• EU doesn't have any good mantra mesmers because none of them know how to play it effectively.

Also, I have an issue with oneshot builds across the board. However, mantra mesmer is the most reliable, frequent, survivable, fastest, and easiest to set up and land. This burst is also an AoE unlike a few of the other oneshot builds.

+

@shadowpass.4236 said:I meant very little experience on core berserker mantra mesmer. I rarely touched this class during core or HoT and only started learning it after PoF came out. Up until recently, I also haven't practiced with mantras at all. So, the fact that I'm destroying people and rarely dying on a glass cannon spec that I just started playing just goes to show how easy it is for anyone to pick up.

Make up your mind. Claiming that nobody in the region with the larger player base can figure out how to play a build that's easy to pick up is laughable.

the "condi thief epidemic" is kind of a myth above gold anyway. At least in my last 10 games or so, there were more holos, spellbreakers, and i think even revenants than condi thieves.

I think you need to reread what I wrote. And if you read it again and still don't understand:

1. Landing a mantra burst is as easy and reliable as landing steal.
2. The playstyle of the build is similar to a thief using a mobile Shadow Refuge halfway across the map from behind LoS, rotating to a different point, using a 20k damage Steal on someone from stealth, then Shadowstepping away, gaining superspeed, reflecting projectiles, and stealthing again with a pre-nerf Blinding Powder to repeat the insta-kill Steal from stealth 12 seconds later.
   • In this scenario, if the person is running an extremely tanky build, they will still be left at 20% HP and be forced to blow several other defensive cooldowns to prevent the instant cast follow up burst. In other words, it can instantly guarantee decaps (even in teamfights because the burst is AoE) and make 1v1 matchups very easy for your teammates to win if the person didn't already die. You're also too far away after the burst for melee attacks to hit you or chase because you have super speed and they need to be able to close 1200 distance, which most classes cannot do very quickly. Then, you also reflect projectiles so they cannot damage you with the majority of ranged attacks. Finally, you have several defensive cooldowns left to avoid any potential damage before you can stealth 4 seconds later and oneshot someone else.

[Erzian.5218]

Now, I am really confused... why you are telling me this? My point was that the claim that nobody in EU can figure out how to play a build is a silly claim. It's like saying nobody on NA can play a proper holo/rev/whatever.

[viquing.8254]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:condi thief epidemic because we know how to fight against them.

Thanks for the laugh.Ofc mantra mesmer win vs condi thief =) =) =) .You are that skilled that you anticipate each instant teleport from out of LoS, teach me please because with only 18 sec cd and 30 sec cd condi clear and random from Auspicious anguish, a fail = death.Not to say that once you get weakness you are useless.That's what I said, there is that few good players so that mantra mesmer can proliferate and one shot everything. We can agree about the l2p issue then.

You can react to the sword 2 teleport immobilize every single time if you look at when the nameplate disappears. Also, if you stand on the shadow return spot it makes it a lot harder for the thief to kite.

Letting a thief use his sword 2 freely is probably why you have issues against them. Also, the instant I get condi bombed (if I don't evade it/Blurred Frenzy), I'll distort, swap to s/t, and torch 4 to cleanse 4 condis and stealth. Then, I can blink away, mass invis, go for a oneshot on the thief, or stand on a no-port spot if I want to counter the teleports.

I can also just Mirror cancel the Lotus Training dodge to completely neuter the condi application for 2 seconds every 4 seconds.

So what happen in real life :

• Once they saw you run a burst build, they will never stay in sight. Each time you stealth, they will teleport away (switching shortbow.) and you are far less mobile than a thief.
• They will engage you from out of LoS or with max stealth range.
• They have a way more spammable capacity on 2/evade than you have with your evade/2 sword.
• I'm not even mentionning plasma.
• 50 mirror uptime didn't exist since something like 4 seasons.

And it's worst versus burst thieves who always hard counter zerk mes since day 1.

That's the kind of thief I meet, not the type who get easy bursted and never look at you once they saw you are zerk. Again differents players.

[viquing.8254]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Quadox.7834" said:People should stop coming up with convoluted yet nonsensical and incomplete suggestions like

"Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ"

and of course adding "EZ" to the end to pretend that they are smart, while of course ignoring that the first hit would put you out of stealth and thus you would do full damage anyway. In other words it would only work for single-hit heavy-hitters like deadeye.

Second, targeting kitten like mantra of recovery, mantra of concentration and kitten sword autoattack is just unintelligent unless the entire thesis of the post is to ruin its own credibility.

Third, it is sad that there even is a discussion to begin with, just delete mantra of pain and the prismatic understanding stealth extension, nobody above silver 2 has ever cared about or liked those.

Then make it work like

Hidden Killer

and have the damage modifier removal linger for 2 seconds out of stealth. This would solve the issue.

You've probably missed a few metas or don't have the creativity or math skills to understand how effective those healing/utility/weapon skills are.

1. Mantra of Recovery has an incredible amount of healing on a short cooldown. It gives between 6555-10155 health on a 10 second cooldown with ZERO healing power investment that can proc on-heal runes frequently.Mantra of recovery has a absolutly bad heal/clic. And thoses clic = actions that you don't do to other things.
2. Mantra of Concentration is a 15s cooldown double stun break that also gives other powerful boons.Mantra of concentration is a shit speel who give less stab on activation than most other stab skills. Note that it only procure stab/bs that mean when you are under focus, it didn't help you at all because they will continue their focus on you.
3. Mind Spike hitting for 7k just by autoattacking after stripping all of their boons with a shatter combo is usually more than enough to kill them.Mind spike hit for 7k on a zerk target under 25 vulnerability while mesmer is under 25 power and three moon are alignate.
4. PU has always been busted. The entire Chaos traitline makes mesmers extremely difficult to kill. There are currently builds in ranked that allow mesmers to escape and reset fights every 30 seconds. They are nearly untouchable by power, condi, and ranged damage.Mesmer is not supposed to be killed by everyone and his grandma on 2 aoe faceroll click.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Erzian.5218" said:Now, I am really confused... why you are telling me this? My point was that the claim that nobody in EU can figure out how to play a build is a silly claim. It's like saying nobody on NA can play a proper holo/rev/whatever.

That's why I told you to reread what I wrote. You missed my point.

I understand it's a silly claim. I was just mimicking the responses I get when people say stupid stuff like:

1. Mantra mesmer doesn't work at a high level. Must be an NA only issue hurr durr.
2. Condi thieves are so busted hurr durr.
3. etc. etc.

Clearly, the common consensus from the EU forum-goers is that mantra mesmer is not an issue there. Why? Well, they say they never see them because they're all stuck in gold 2 because miraculously every single player above that threshold can reactively dodge a thief using steal from stealth (a.k.a. mantra burst). Mantra mesmer has been PROVEN to work at a high level for years. The fact that there are quote unquote, "zero" mantra mesmers that can pull it off at a high level on EU must mean that none of you can play it correctly. Right?

[shadowpass.4236]

@viquing.8254 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:condi thief epidemic because we know how to fight against them.

Thanks for the laugh.Ofc mantra mesmer win vs condi thief =) =) =) .You are that skilled that you anticipate each instant teleport from out of LoS, teach me please because with only 18 sec cd and 30 sec cd condi clear and random from Auspicious anguish, a fail = death.Not to say that once you get weakness you are useless.That's what I said, there is that few good players so that mantra mesmer can proliferate and one shot everything. We can agree about the l2p issue then.

You can react to the sword 2 teleport immobilize every single time if you look at when the nameplate disappears. Also, if you stand on the shadow return spot it makes it a lot harder for the thief to kite.

Letting a thief use his sword 2 freely is probably why you have issues against them. Also, the instant I get condi bombed (if I don't evade it/Blurred Frenzy), I'll distort, swap to s/t, and torch 4 to cleanse 4 condis and stealth. Then, I can blink away, mass invis, go for a oneshot on the thief, or stand on a no-port spot if I want to counter the teleports.

I can also just Mirror cancel the Lotus Training dodge to completely neuter the condi application for 2 seconds every 4 seconds.

So what happen in real life :

• Once they saw you run a burst build, they will never stay in sight. Each time you stealth, they will teleport away (switching shortbow.) and you are far less mobile than a thief.
• They will engage you from out of LoS or with max stealth range.
• They have a way more spammable capacity on 2/evade than you have with your evade/2 sword.
• I'm not even mentionning plasma.
• 50 mirror uptime didn't exist since something like 4 seasons.

And it's worst versus burst thieves who always hard counter zerk mes since day 1.

That's the kind of thief I meet, not the type who get easy bursted and never look at you once they saw you are zerk. Again differents players.

What happens in real life (asides from everything I stated in the post you quoted...):

1. The thief will not chain defensives for 9 seconds while you wait in Mass Invis. Instead, he will leave and you can break combat by walking halfway across the map away from him.
2. You can blink + diversion where the thief teleports to with shortbow 5 then blurred frenzy/distort because the thief will probably use steal in an attempt to interrupt the follow-up burst he "thinks" is coming. Etc. etc.
3. They cannot spam infiltrator's strike effectively if you stand on the return spot. L2P issue here. I've already stated how you can counter this ability. If you insist on ignoring my advice and let the thief freely S2 you from behind LoS, you deserve to die.
4. You can kite out a plasma by stealthing or going on a no-port spot.
5. I'm not talking about Mirror on dodge. I'm talking about the Mirror heal skill.

I've fought against several good thieves on NA with this build. They have years of experience on thief, I have hours of experience on mesmer. Read my post and watch the videos/clips of Vallun fighting me. This build is very easy to survive on. You can even see me landing a stealth burst on the engi in the second clip (while I was getting chased by Vallun) which he couldn't magically react to and evade like you and several others are making it seem.

Again, you refuse to take my advice on how to counter s/d thieves. I can survive against them pretty easily on core berserker mesmer, you should not be having so much difficulty.