For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Funkystuff.1563 said:i haven't played pvp a year and a half ago. i gave it a try this week and i got sick of it after facing a condi mesmer with illusions who was in stealth mode non stop and blinking away-healing and coming back . 2 holos trying to kill him for about 3 minutes. he spend the whole game staying on our close trying to make us abandon the game and reminding me why i left it in first place. Seriously this skillset and traits that a mesmer has in combination with the map awareness of a good player make it broken and totally unpleasant to play against. nerf this class or better rework it .

These days u can meet a holo, fb,DE and others that will make u feel the exact same lol literally the same cheese burst rotations over and over cuz they'll either delete u out right or over 75% of ur health and the builds and burst are chosen because of this and the fact that they have little counter play. Ofcourse u could fill half a page of possible counters to them that look good in print but not so much in practice.The pvp is bleeding players because of the poor state it's in and players who have these playstyles down and have jumped to the fotm feel like their pvp masters lol and try and defend the kitten and delude themselves into thinking the mode isn't dying cuz that's easier to admitting the truth. I put allot if hrs and funds into this vid and I don't want to admit it either but the classes as a whole need massive overhauls as far as mechanics and balance are concerned and pvp needs more fleshed out game modes and I'm sure we can all guess the probability on that ever happening, not at least in next 5 yrs knowing the rate anet pushes pvp material out lol. How many are gonna be staying around that long?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Whatever deletes their one sec burst u to death is great in my books. Other classes like DE etc as well. Part of the reason the pvp in this games a joke outside of gw2 players lol

pvp is a joke becouse every mid fight consists of scourge and firebrand that wankeachother on mid with shield/heal/boons and revives, had a fight where i did 540k damage, 1 teamfight. nobody died. just shieldwanking for days, thats whats really annoying.

Yeah can't argue with u about that, there are a few specs that need basically 2 or three players to take them down if their good cuz their sustain is way over tuned, the rest of the specs its cheese one burst downs over and over. man gw2 pvp is fun eh lol.

here is the thing, we were preety much cleaving them as 4man. but firebrand and 2 scourges outhealed all the cleave while taking no damage. fun fun fun fun fun fun. and if you DARE to get downed, guess who can easy cleave? mass off scourges that spam corrupt stability! its stupid that to counter scourge and firebrand you need more scourges and firebrand, or just avoid teamfights compleatly.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Whatever deletes their one sec burst u to death is great in my books. Other classes like DE etc as well. Part of the reason the pvp in this games a joke outside of gw2 players lol

pvp is a joke becouse every mid fight consists of scourge and firebrand that wankeachother on mid with shield/heal/boons and revives, had a fight where i did 540k damage, 1 teamfight. nobody died. just shieldwanking for days, thats whats really annoying.

Yeah can't argue with u about that, there are a few specs that need basically 2 or three players to take them down if their good cuz their sustain is way over tuned, the rest of the specs its cheese one burst downs over and over. man gw2 pvp is fun eh lol.

here is the thing, we were preety much cleaving them as 4man. but firebrand and 2 scourges outhealed all the cleave while taking no damage. fun fun fun fun fun fun. and if you DARE to get downed, guess who can easy cleave? mass off scourges that spam corrupt stability! its stupid that to counter scourge and firebrand you need more scourges and firebrand, or just avoid teamfights compleatly.

Yeah and if u manage to down one they have crazy sustain and razzing to pick their allies up while ur beating on them. Makes sense for a pvp mode I guess in anets minds.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Why are people not moaning about the arcane blast? That has no charge (sure fresh air is not as common)

[mortrialus.3062]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Aegis share used to be guardian exclusive, now mesmers can do it. You don't see me acting like a 4 year old about it. (I know you could technically chaos storm for an aegis proc to share.)Thanks to remember me that distorsion sharing was nerfed ...

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@bravan.3876 :The problem is that 95% of your arguments are objective : "it's noobcarrying", "it's skills", "it's braindead", "it's lame", etc. (Come on, where is the argumentation ?)Your argumentation isn't good at all if you don't understand the spike in my last post.You just manipulate opinion with no real data behind.Give me numbers, I agree with you. Give me skill argument, I will always write against.The next problem is that you aren't on the middle at all but slowly nerf mesmers patch after patch. The only difference with you and shadow is that you nerf step by step whereas shadow do axe nerf.And what is dangerous is because many people agree with step by step nerf because you know it's just a step. Now when you do the addition it's worst than ever.

Oh come on, i always explained very detailed and with lot of words why something is lame, op or unhealthy mechanic. Just read all my posts again they wouldn't be wall of texts if i only would judge. I also used a lot of time to explain why something is not op and doesn't need nerfs on Mesmer. But i mean you can stop fighting, you won, i am out here. Neither ppl like you nor ppl like shadow will agree on a little bit no matter how many facts or logic is brought up. He will open another nerf Mantra thread in few days with the same arguments already proven wrong about most of the stuff he crys about. You will never agree to any single little nerf, all is fine, fair and skillbased on Mesmer, even need buffs (only other classes need big nerfs i guess) no matter how much i or others explain. Do what you want, i am tired of that kitten.

I already read your posts in integrality much times, and they mainly contain objective view like in the CI discussion where CI was lame because PB is skilled. The few value you give are 5+ stealth duration which when we read the CD is not that op IMO.Again when we start looking about proves like seeing streams (not only the 10 sec vids of a mesmer one shotting someone shadow give.), we found that not only they are not that represented but also they don't 100% kill builds who aren't glassy and are hard countered by many +1 opponents.

It's not about fighting something and I already post balance suggestions with nerfs.

Ofc it was nerfed. Every class has received nerfs. Chrono is still the best in slot tank Even after 4 years worth of Chrono nerfs in pve.Distort share literally trivialized raid fights in itself. It had to go. Distort is still mesmer only. So is blur. Pretty sure ethereal fields are also mesmer only.

Give me one thing guardian has that no other class does. One thing warrior has.

Necromancer Spectral Ring is an ethereal field.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@alain.1659 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@alain.1659 said:Bring glamour trait back, re nerf staff 2(could be used to jump back onto walls and stuff years ago) buff staff 5 and sword 3 or rework them. Put some love into focus and sword off hand. With these in mind do a total rework on mesmer, changin its role into something else than a burst class ( which is all you can do with power mes in a competitive arena). Then remove the mesmer mantras. Remove gimmicky builds and so.

I have been playing it so long and there was something called cloneless mesmer back in the days. Phantas mes, shatter mes, glamour mes, condi duelist mes et. There were so many options.

There were so many nerfs on mes and so many bad new skills/abilities invented for other professions that mesmer lost its character/uniqueness. I feel that no mes player from pre hot is really happy with where the profession is going.

Buff staff 5? Are you high?

Not higher than those who whined this class into oblivion or the devs that gave unique class abilities to other professions and then nerf it into the ground, no.

Mesmer still has more class unique abilities than most other classes.

Like portal ?Or alacrity ?Or quickness ?Or moa ?Or group stealth ?Thanks for noticing it's not anymore the case. :3 <3

As a Mesmer main in PvP and WvW, I like to put my 2 cents in to help using 2 mins of research.

• Portal: No argument there as it was for the longest time mesmer exclusive
• Alacrity: (Added Oct 2015), Was given to Chronomancer. Added to rev on Feb 2017, meaning it was a mesmer exclusive for ~16 months (long enough to be considered exclusive) so there is no contest here either.
• Quickness: (Added Aug 2012), Was given to Mesmer via Time Warp, Guardian didn't get it until June 2015 when Feel My Wrath obtained it as a boon. Again, long enough to be considered exclusive to mesmer so no contest here.
• Moa: Also no contest as Elixir X didnt see it until June 2015 via Toss Elixir X. Mesmer had it Aug 2012 with Polymorph Moa/Tuna
• Group Stealth: Mesmer had Veil as of Aug 2012 and Thief had it at the same time, thus this wasn't a Mesmer exclusive skill (SR also had a longer duration) so this would ht the only incorrect claim.

Your Welcome everyone :)

Considering you seem to have an inability to read. Guardian had quickness through one of their tomes before feel my wrath was a thing.

You sure have a very bm way of saying someone is wrong. I admit that Tome of Wrath had it at launch so it was not a mesmer exclusive. I would strongly advise working on your communication skills if you want people to take you more serious kid.

[shadowpass.4236]

D e l e t e p l s.

[Lighter.5631]

@viquing.8254 said:that's why we don't see mantra mesmers pass gold in EU.

what do you mean, silver, gold, plat, legend all get to put in one game

[shadowpass.4236]

Here's a gallery of my matches from today:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" Please remove berserker amulet from PvP and nerf oneshot builds like mantra mesmer.(Or keep it in the game! I've never had more fun/an easier time farming ranked than when I've ran this build! It's literally the easiest rating I've had since release) ¯\(ツ)/¯

• "Mantra builds are memes"
• "They don't work against good players"
• "Just react"
• "Play tanky builds"
• "The problem with the OP is he tends to project best possible scenarios rather than realistic scenarios." - @"apharma.3741"
• "Mantras are easy to interrupt"

etc. etc. etc. I didn't die more than 3x (I died 3 times in a single match. All of the others were between 0-2 deaths.) or get less than 10 kills in 15+ matches on core berserker mantra mesmer and if you look at the leaderboards, Mur is rank 2 on mantra mesmer!

---

Here are some clips of me from Vallun's stream:

• he couldn't "react" in time
• oneshot
• part 1Vallun chasing me for two minutes. He's a thief btw, a "mesmer's counter"
• part 2I only died here because he interrupted my heal before I could get my mass invis off + there were 2 other people attacking me. If he didn't have his steal up in the 3v1, I would've lived and been able to break combat/oneshot someone else.

@Shao.7236You're in a few of these too

@bravan.3876 @Bigpapasmurf.5623 @ollbirtan.2915 @Leonidrex.5649 @viquing.8254 @lightstalker.1498 @kraai.7265 @yusayu.3629 @everyman.4375 @dronte.3416 @Simonoly.4352 @Justine.6351 @Xstein.2187 @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" @Firebeard.1746 @Naxos.2503 @Henrik.7560 @Azure The Heartless.3261 @Quadox.7834

[Stand The Wall.6987]

theres a ton of cheese in this game but anet won't do anything about it cuz they don't know how.

[apharma.3741]

"The problem with the OP is he tends to project best possible scenarios rather than realistic scenarios." - @"apharma.3741"

OK how's about you show the games where you lost as mantra mesmer while duo queuing? This was streamed btw.How's about you comment on your lack of impact in any game you weren't already going to win because of matchmaking being so lopsided?You only gained 8 rating yesterday, if I remember correctly, what happened to this "easier time in ranked" you're bragging about?

The problem is you base all your arguments on cherry picked information, screen captures, clips, games and lack consistency. You say you win every match as mantra mesmer yet only gained 8 rating, show a screenshot of 10 win streak but 4/10 of the games are engineer but what's crucial is the info left out, time, duo/solo, un/ranked.

I said: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes." This is the best way to get anything in the game changed, you make it so popular ANet changes it either because they agree or because they want to "shake up the meta".

[shadowpass.4236]

@"apharma.3741" said:"The problem with the OP is he tends to project best possible scenarios rather than realistic scenarios." - @"apharma.3741"

1. OK how's about you show the games where you lost as mantra mesmer while duo queuing? This was streamed btw.

2. How's about you comment on your lack of impact in any game you weren't already going to win because of matchmaking being so lopsided?

3. You only gained 8 rating yesterday, if I remember correctly, what happened to this "easier time in ranked" you're bragging about?

4. The problem is you base all your arguments on cherry picked information, screen captures, clips, games and lack consistency. You say you win every match as mantra mesmer yet only gained 8 rating, show a screenshot of 10 win streak but 4/10 of the games are engineer but what's crucial is the info left out, time, duo/solo, un/ranked.

I said: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes." This is the best way to get anything in the game changed, you make it so popular ANet changes it either because they agree or because they want to "shake up the meta".

1. Sure! Here's my entire record for today in ranked.And here's the scoreboard for the first match I lost on mesmer today! I still hard carried and went 15-2 with 420k damage but it wasn't enough D:For a total record of... 8-2 on mesmer today! (The engineer games don't count towards this, neither do unranked matches.)

2. As you can tell by the gallery I linked from the scoreboards and the game history, I had a very significant (and consistent) impact on all of the games I've played.

3. Unfortunately, as you can also see in the screenshots, I drop 20-30 rating per loss and only gain around 9-13 for each win. Thus, I need 2-3 wins in order to break even. In other words, yesterday, when I gained 8 rating, it meant I won a lot more than I lost.

4. My arguments aren't cherry picked. They are literally screenshots from my games today. You can't argue with objective proof that mantra mesmer has (for years) and still does work at a high level.

Anything else?

[apharma.3741]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:"The problem with the OP is he tends to project best possible scenarios rather than realistic scenarios." - @"apharma.3741"

OK how's about you show the games where you lost as mantra mesmer while duo queuing? This was streamed btw.How's about you comment on your lack of impact in any game you weren't already going to win because of matchmaking being so lopsided?You only gained 8 rating yesterday, if I remember correctly, what happened to this "easier time in ranked" you're bragging about?

The problem is you base all your arguments on cherry picked information, screen captures, clips, games and lack consistency. You say you win every match as mantra mesmer yet only gained 8 rating, show a screenshot of 10 win streak but 4/10 of the games are engineer but what's crucial is the info left out, time, duo/solo, un/ranked.

I said: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes." This is the best way to get anything in the game changed, you make it so popular ANet changes it either because they agree or because they want to "shake up the meta".

Sure! Here's my entire record for today in ranked.

https://imgur.com/a/yjiBso1

 

As you can clearly see, today, on September 16th, 2019:

• I lost 2 games playing engineer in ranked
• Won 7 games on mesmer
• Lost 2 on mesmer
• Won 6 more games on mesmer
• Lost 1 one more on mesmer

 

 

For a total record of... 13-3 on mesmer today! (The engineer games don't count towards this, neither do unranked matches.)

As you can tell by the gallery I linked from the scoreboards and the game history, I had a

very significant

(and consistent) impact on all of the games I've played. Unfortunately, as you can

also

see in the screenshots, I 20-30 rating per loss and only gained around 9-13 for each win. Thus, I need 2-3 wins in order to break even. In other words, yesterday, when I gained 8 rating, it meant I won a lot more than I lost.

My arguments aren't cherry picked. They are literally

screenshots

from my games today. You can't argue with objective proof that mantra mesmer

has

(for years), and still

does

work at a high level.

Anything else?

Your arguments were cherry picked for your original post as you didn't include the full breakdown of your matches. I had to point that out before you included it and imgur says it was created 13mins ago at time of writing.

Still, 1 person a trend does not make nor is there consistency to your matches played with one class even within a short span of a few days. Also what isn't viable in high level play nowadays? For the third time: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

Edit: You seem to have changed some stuff and one of the pictures has gone from your imgur album. You were 13/3 for ranked on mesmer, 3/2 for unranked.

[shadowpass.4236]

@apharma.3741 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@apharma.3741 said:"The problem with the OP is he tends to project best possible scenarios rather than realistic scenarios." - @apharma.3741

OK how's about you show the games where you lost as mantra mesmer while duo queuing? This was streamed btw.How's about you comment on your lack of impact in any game you weren't already going to win because of matchmaking being so lopsided?You only gained 8 rating yesterday, if I remember correctly, what happened to this "easier time in ranked" you're bragging about?

The problem is you base all your arguments on cherry picked information, screen captures, clips, games and lack consistency. You say you win every match as mantra mesmer yet only gained 8 rating, show a screenshot of 10 win streak but 4/10 of the games are engineer but what's crucial is the info left out, time, duo/solo, un/ranked.

I said: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes." This is the best way to get anything in the game changed, you make it so popular ANet changes it either because they agree or because they want to "shake up the meta".

Sure! Here's my entire record for today in ranked.

https://imgur.com/a/yjiBso1

 

As you can clearly see, today, on September 16th, 2019:

• I lost 2 games playing engineer in ranked
• Won 7 games on mesmer
• Lost 2 on mesmer
• Won 6 more games on mesmer
• Lost 1 one more on mesmer

 

 

For a total record of... 13-3 on mesmer today! (The engineer games don't count towards this, neither do unranked matches.)

As you can tell by the gallery I linked from the scoreboards and the game history, I had a

very significant

(and consistent) impact on all of the games I've played. Unfortunately, as you can

also

see in the screenshots, I 20-30 rating per loss and only gained around 9-13 for each win. Thus, I need 2-3 wins in order to break even. In other words, yesterday, when I gained 8 rating, it meant I won a lot more than I lost.

My arguments aren't cherry picked. They are literally

screenshots

from my games today. You can't argue with objective proof that mantra mesmer

has

(for years), and still

does

work at a high level.

Anything else?

Your arguments were cherry picked for your original post as you didn't include the full breakdown of your matches. I had to point that out before you included it and imgur says it was created 13mins ago at time of writing.

Still, 1 person a trend does not make nor is there consistency to your matches played with one class even within a short span of a few days. Also what isn't viable in high level play nowadays? For the third time: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

Edit: You seem to have changed some stuff and one of the pictures has gone from your imgur album. You were 13/3 for ranked on mesmer, 3/2 for unranked.

Sorry I counted a few of the same matches twice because the screenshots overlapped. Instead of 13-3, I went 8-2 today in ranked on mesmer. I deleted one of the overlapping images.

Again, Mur is currently rank 2 on mantra mesmer and he's been in the top 10 consistently since the leaderboards came out. CJ has also been high up there and Shorts is usually on the leaderboards when he plays mantras as well. So, it's pretty clear that the build works at a high level.

I also only have a few hours worth of practice on the berserker mantra build and I'm farming ranked harder than I do on my main. If that doesn't say anything in regards to how low-risk, high-reward the build is, I don't know what will.

[viquing.8254]

They should do a EU session separate from NA in this forum so we all can see posts relative to what we see. Look at last ajaxx stream for the EU version of there isn't mesmers in this game.

[apharma.3741]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@apharma.3741 said:"The problem with the OP is he tends to project best possible scenarios rather than realistic scenarios." - @apharma.3741

OK how's about you show the games where you lost as mantra mesmer while duo queuing? This was streamed btw.How's about you comment on your lack of impact in any game you weren't already going to win because of matchmaking being so lopsided?You only gained 8 rating yesterday, if I remember correctly, what happened to this "easier time in ranked" you're bragging about?

The problem is you base all your arguments on cherry picked information, screen captures, clips, games and lack consistency. You say you win every match as mantra mesmer yet only gained 8 rating, show a screenshot of 10 win streak but 4/10 of the games are engineer but what's crucial is the info left out, time, duo/solo, un/ranked.

I said: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes." This is the best way to get anything in the game changed, you make it so popular ANet changes it either because they agree or because they want to "shake up the meta".

Sure! Here's my entire record for today in ranked.

https://imgur.com/a/yjiBso1

 

As you can clearly see, today, on September 16th, 2019:

• I lost 2 games playing engineer in ranked
• Won 7 games on mesmer
• Lost 2 on mesmer
• Won 6 more games on mesmer
• Lost 1 one more on mesmer

 

 

For a total record of... 13-3 on mesmer today! (The engineer games don't count towards this, neither do unranked matches.)

As you can tell by the gallery I linked from the scoreboards and the game history, I had a

very significant

(and consistent) impact on all of the games I've played. Unfortunately, as you can

also

see in the screenshots, I 20-30 rating per loss and only gained around 9-13 for each win. Thus, I need 2-3 wins in order to break even. In other words, yesterday, when I gained 8 rating, it meant I won a lot more than I lost.

My arguments aren't cherry picked. They are literally

screenshots

from my games today. You can't argue with objective proof that mantra mesmer

has

(for years), and still

does

work at a high level.

Anything else?

Your arguments were cherry picked for your original post as you didn't include the full breakdown of your matches. I had to point that out before you included it and imgur says it was created 13mins ago at time of writing.

Still, 1 person a trend does not make nor is there consistency to your matches played with one class even within a short span of a few days. Also what isn't viable in high level play nowadays? For the third time: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

Edit: You seem to have changed some stuff and one of the pictures has gone from your imgur album. You were 13/3 for ranked on mesmer, 3/2 for unranked.

Sorry I counted a few of the same matches twice because the screenshots overlapped. Instead of 13-3, I went 8-2 today in ranked on mesmer. I deleted one of the overlapping images.

Again, Mur is

currently

rank 2 on mantra mesmer and he's been in the top 10 consistently since the leaderboards came out. CJ has also been high up there and Shorts is usually on the leaderboards when he plays mantras as well. So, it's pretty clear that the build works at a high level.

I also only have a few hours worth of practice on the berserker mantra build and I'm farming ranked harder than I do on my main. If that doesn't say anything in regards to how low-risk, high-reward the build is, I don't know what will.

What isn't viable in high level nowadays? You're likely to see people who play all sorts on the leaderboard, heck WP had rank 1 not that long ago on condi mirage in your region. Someone had been camping top spot for several seasons on necro in EU. It's a very weak argument in the state of the game to say that ranking alone dictates the strength of a build, you also need a lot of people to be playing it as good players can pretty much play anything, especially in NA and get a high placement. That's without mentioning the meme of last season's rank 1.

For the third fourth time: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

In other words get more people to play it on the level of condi mirage, holosmith, warrior etc.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"viquing.8254" said:They should do a EU session separate from NA in this forum so we all can see posts relative to what we see. Look at last ajaxx stream for the EU version of there isn't mesmers in this game.

As if players on EU wouldn't ALSO get oneshot... lol

If there aren't any mantra mesmers dominating ranked on EU, that just means that no one on EU can play mantra mesmers properly. Contrary to popular belief (on the forums), it does not mean that every single player on EU has instantaneous reaction time and wall hacks.

Now, compare this

Shao made to my clip on how a mantra mesmer should burst. I also killed Shao several times in ranked today (oneshot and non-oneshot) and has yet to return the "favor."

[shadowpass.4236]

@apharma.3741 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@apharma.3741 said:"The problem with the OP is he tends to project best possible scenarios rather than realistic scenarios." - @apharma.3741

OK how's about you show the games where you lost as mantra mesmer while duo queuing? This was streamed btw.How's about you comment on your lack of impact in any game you weren't already going to win because of matchmaking being so lopsided?You only gained 8 rating yesterday, if I remember correctly, what happened to this "easier time in ranked" you're bragging about?

The problem is you base all your arguments on cherry picked information, screen captures, clips, games and lack consistency. You say you win every match as mantra mesmer yet only gained 8 rating, show a screenshot of 10 win streak but 4/10 of the games are engineer but what's crucial is the info left out, time, duo/solo, un/ranked.

I said: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes." This is the best way to get anything in the game changed, you make it so popular ANet changes it either because they agree or because they want to "shake up the meta".

Sure! Here's my entire record for today in ranked.

https://imgur.com/a/yjiBso1

 

As you can clearly see, today, on September 16th, 2019:

• I lost 2 games playing engineer in ranked
• Won 7 games on mesmer
• Lost 2 on mesmer
• Won 6 more games on mesmer
• Lost 1 one more on mesmer

 

 

For a total record of... 13-3 on mesmer today! (The engineer games don't count towards this, neither do unranked matches.)

As you can tell by the gallery I linked from the scoreboards and the game history, I had a

very significant

(and consistent) impact on all of the games I've played. Unfortunately, as you can

also

see in the screenshots, I 20-30 rating per loss and only gained around 9-13 for each win. Thus, I need 2-3 wins in order to break even. In other words, yesterday, when I gained 8 rating, it meant I won a lot more than I lost.

My arguments aren't cherry picked. They are literally

screenshots

from my games today. You can't argue with objective proof that mantra mesmer

has

(for years), and still

does

work at a high level.

Anything else?

Your arguments were cherry picked for your original post as you didn't include the full breakdown of your matches. I had to point that out before you included it and imgur says it was created 13mins ago at time of writing.

Still, 1 person a trend does not make nor is there consistency to your matches played with one class even within a short span of a few days. Also what isn't viable in high level play nowadays? For the third time: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

Edit: You seem to have changed some stuff and one of the pictures has gone from your imgur album. You were 13/3 for ranked on mesmer, 3/2 for unranked.

Sorry I counted a few of the same matches twice because the screenshots overlapped. Instead of 13-3, I went 8-2 today in ranked on mesmer. I deleted one of the overlapping images.

Again, Mur is

currently

rank 2 on mantra mesmer and he's been in the top 10 consistently since the leaderboards came out. CJ has also been high up there and Shorts is usually on the leaderboards when he plays mantras as well. So, it's pretty clear that the build works at a high level.

I also only have a few hours worth of practice on the berserker mantra build and I'm farming ranked harder than I do on my main. If that doesn't say anything in regards to how low-risk, high-reward the build is, I don't know what will.

What isn't viable in high level nowadays? You're likely to see people who play all sorts on the leaderboard, heck WP had rank 1 not that long ago on condi mirage in your region. Someone had been camping top spot for several seasons on necro in EU. It's a very weak argument in the state of the game to say that ranking alone dictates the strength of a build, you also need a lot of people to be playing it as good players can pretty much play anything, especially in NA and get a high placement. That's without mentioning the meme of last season's rank 1.

For the

third

fourth time: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

In other words get more people to play it on the level of condi mirage, holosmith, warrior etc.

WP had rank 1 on condi mirage. Correct. However, if you want to talk about cherry picking information, WP got rank 1 during the first week of the ranked season quing before NA primetime. So, not only were less players online, but there weren't many high tier players that had finished their placements.

Sorry, but I disagree. I definitely would not be able to consistently farm ranked (highest yesterday was 26-0 in a ranked match), on any ACTUAL meme build. Mantra mesmer is incredibly powerful, hence why I'm completely destroying people in my ranked matches (including people in this thread who've defended the spec). So, if you catch me going 26-0 on renegade, feel free to point it out. lol

You act like I'm only using rankings to determine the strength of the build. I have screenshots, videos, and clips of myself playing the build and the results at the end of every match. What more could you possibly need?

I've already placed top 30 on EU several times with 120-180 ping so that should go to show that the skill levels between the regions aren't as different as you (and others) like to make it seem.

[viquing.8254]

If there aren't any mantra mesmers dominating ranked on EU, that just means that no one on EU can play mantra mesmers properly. Contrary to popular belief (on the forums), it does not mean that every single player on EU has instantaneous reaction time and wall hacks.When I compare the streams and matchs quality I have high doubts but whatever.

[apharma.3741]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@apharma.3741 said:"The problem with the OP is he tends to project best possible scenarios rather than realistic scenarios." - @apharma.3741

OK how's about you show the games where you lost as mantra mesmer while duo queuing? This was streamed btw.How's about you comment on your lack of impact in any game you weren't already going to win because of matchmaking being so lopsided?You only gained 8 rating yesterday, if I remember correctly, what happened to this "easier time in ranked" you're bragging about?

The problem is you base all your arguments on cherry picked information, screen captures, clips, games and lack consistency. You say you win every match as mantra mesmer yet only gained 8 rating, show a screenshot of 10 win streak but 4/10 of the games are engineer but what's crucial is the info left out, time, duo/solo, un/ranked.

I said: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes." This is the best way to get anything in the game changed, you make it so popular ANet changes it either because they agree or because they want to "shake up the meta".

Sure! Here's my entire record for today in ranked.

https://imgur.com/a/yjiBso1

 

As you can clearly see, today, on September 16th, 2019:

• I lost 2 games playing engineer in ranked
• Won 7 games on mesmer
• Lost 2 on mesmer
• Won 6 more games on mesmer
• Lost 1 one more on mesmer

 

 

For a total record of... 13-3 on mesmer today! (The engineer games don't count towards this, neither do unranked matches.)

As you can tell by the gallery I linked from the scoreboards and the game history, I had a

very significant

(and consistent) impact on all of the games I've played. Unfortunately, as you can

also

see in the screenshots, I 20-30 rating per loss and only gained around 9-13 for each win. Thus, I need 2-3 wins in order to break even. In other words, yesterday, when I gained 8 rating, it meant I won a lot more than I lost.

My arguments aren't cherry picked. They are literally

screenshots

from my games today. You can't argue with objective proof that mantra mesmer

has

(for years), and still

does

work at a high level.

Anything else?

Your arguments were cherry picked for your original post as you didn't include the full breakdown of your matches. I had to point that out before you included it and imgur says it was created 13mins ago at time of writing.

Still, 1 person a trend does not make nor is there consistency to your matches played with one class even within a short span of a few days. Also what isn't viable in high level play nowadays? For the third time: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

Edit: You seem to have changed some stuff and one of the pictures has gone from your imgur album. You were 13/3 for ranked on mesmer, 3/2 for unranked.

Sorry I counted a few of the same matches twice because the screenshots overlapped. Instead of 13-3, I went 8-2 today in ranked on mesmer. I deleted one of the overlapping images.

Again, Mur is

currently

rank 2 on mantra mesmer and he's been in the top 10 consistently since the leaderboards came out. CJ has also been high up there and Shorts is usually on the leaderboards when he plays mantras as well. So, it's pretty clear that the build works at a high level.

I also only have a few hours worth of practice on the berserker mantra build and I'm farming ranked harder than I do on my main. If that doesn't say anything in regards to how low-risk, high-reward the build is, I don't know what will.

What isn't viable in high level nowadays? You're likely to see people who play all sorts on the leaderboard, heck WP had rank 1 not that long ago on condi mirage in your region. Someone had been camping top spot for several seasons on necro in EU. It's a very weak argument in the state of the game to say that ranking alone dictates the strength of a build, you also need a lot of people to be playing it as good players can pretty much play anything, especially in NA and get a high placement. That's without mentioning the meme of last season's rank 1.

For the

third

fourth time: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

In other words get more people to play it on the level of condi mirage, holosmith, warrior etc.

WP had rank 1 on

condi mirage

. Correct. However, if you want to talk about cherry picking information, WP got rank 1 during the first week of the ranked season quing before NA primetime. So, not only were less players online, but there weren't many high tier players that had finished their placements.

Sorry, but I disagree. I definitely would

not

be able to consistently farm ranked (highest yesterday was 26-0 in a ranked match), on any ACTUAL meme build. Mantra mesmer is incredibly powerful, hence why I'm completely destroying people in my ranked matches (including people in this thread who've defended the spec). So, if you catch me going 26-0 on renegade, feel free to point it out. lol

You act like I'm

only

using rankings to determine the strength of the build. I have screenshots, videos, and clips of myself playing the build and the results at the end of every match. What more could you possibly need?

I've already placed top 30 on EU several times with 120-180 ping so that should go to show that the skill levels between the regions

aren't

as different as you (and others) like to make it seem.

It was a demonstration that anyone can get high ranks on the leaderboard regardless of actual skill (edit)[or build] and so leaderboard position and even being on it is not a good indicator of a builds actual strength or quality. Hence last season's rank 1 also.

Your "evidence" is subjective, that's the problem with it. You're not showing scores of people playing a clearly too strong build and instead showing a handful of people playing a strong build from a perspective that wants to see this build nerfed.

For the third fourth fifth time: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

You need numbers of players playing the build in ranked to the level of current Holo and condi Mirage so it shows on ANet's statistics. I don't know how I can spell it out any more.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Daishi.6027 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:one-shot from stealth because the mesmer stealthed halfway across the map and insta-killed me with ZERO tells or any chance to react.

Biggest bunch of BS and alone is proof of how lacking you are.

Outside of portal mesmer blinks once ever 30 seconds for 1200 range, and if mirage that's plus a couple jaunts and a couple leaps at the cost of endurance, and then MAYBE you get half way across the map, and that's more than enough for you to see them coming.

You say "No tell", but that "no tell" is your own lack of awareness for the map or your opponent. No one's fault other than your own if you can't anticipate a combo in at most a relatively short 5-6 second window while knowing that they need to end a 3/4 cast at a specific distance if they want to one shot.

lol when I said, "halfway across the map" ... I meant "halfway across the map."

If you're on a side node and are "aware" of the mesmer that stealthed at mid (literally halfway across the map!) you're either a liar or a hacker.

I didn't have to use blink, sword 3, jaunt, mirage thrust, swiftness, nor portal. So "MAYBE you get halfway across the map" is "proof of how lacking you are."

[Eleazar.9478]

Ima simple man i see mantra nerf i updoot (ive hated mantra from release they always felt so cheezy to fight)

[shadowpass.4236]

@"apharma.3741" said:

1. It was a demonstration that anyone can get high ranks on the leaderboard regardless of actual skill (edit)[or build] and so leaderboard position and even being on it is not a good indicator of a builds actual strength or quality. Hence last season's rank 1 also.

2. Your "evidence" is subjective, that's the problem with it. You're not showing scores of people playing a clearly too strong build and instead showing a handful of people playing a strong build from a perspective that wants to see this build nerfed.

3. For the third fourth fifth time: "If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

You need numbers of players playing the build in ranked to the level of current Holo and condi Mirage so it shows on ANet's statistics. I don't know how I can spell it out any more.

1. "WP had rank 1 on condi mirage. Correct. However, if you want to talk about cherry picking information, WP got rank 1 during the first week of the ranked season quing before NA primetime. So, not only were less players online, but there weren't many high tier players that had finished their placements."
2. I don't think you understand what the term "subjective" means. The videos and screenshots I've linked are FACTUAL. There aren't any opinions involved in the visual proof of the build's capabilities. I'm not even that good on it, yet I'm still farming.
3. This thread is my attempt to spread the word, as are the ques I've been doing these past few days on mantra mesmer. I'm not disagreeing with you on this, so you can stop repeating yourself over and over again.

[Shao.7236]

@shadowpass.4236 said:It would help if Blink cooldown wasn't so low, but I don't have any complains otherwise and you know why, I wouldn't proudly say people are smart lately either.

I get it that the cooldowns are low but if it's still possible to play around them, what can you do? Increase them? Sure, I would love to have mistakes be more commonly punished.

Still doesn't change the fact the biggest outlier is the ability to disengage very easily and make those low cool downs or big channels barely something to worry about. Everything else in a world where they would be forced to be right next to the person they are fighting, the level of avoidance with those cooldowns seems pretty fair.

Yeah, you've shown anyone can play it with little effort, but to me that doesn't justify anything other than it's at the very bottom of the skill ceiling in this game, if there's anyway for me to overcome them, I can't call them overpowered and since it's a team game, there's more factors to consider than just 1v1, which in my experience aren't really in the favor of 'em. Even you had to disengage and that just goes to show what the real issue is at this point, see how much of a difference it makes when people can't port away every 30 seconds they mess up with Mantras that can be used constantly without consequences at 1200 units away.

There was this other core mes right after we had our talk that ran around FFA and had to try like 20 times to kill me after I got the hang of it while I ran around chasing him for 5 minutes, was annoying but this is what I signed up for playing Mallyx instead of Shiro, things would have gone much differently and it wouldn't go as easy as waiting for the Phase Traversal, some people don't fall for that, I surely don't learning from the cheap shots. I guess this is where the idea of mes being fine comes from, Shiro Herald has all the tools to counter these annoying attempts to escape, Reveal and Phase Traversal being the most notable, Infuse Light has the greatest bait.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Shao.7236

As much as I dislike fighting against mantra mesmers, I honestly have a lot of fun playing them. It's very easy, I don't need any mechanics at all asides from the one-shot burst. The build is growing on me (even though I'd still like it to be removed from the game).

Mm... in regards to Shiro Herald being able to chase down a mantra mesmer's disengage. I disagree with this. The range on Phase Traversal is 1200. This is the same as the range on Power Lock. I fought against several meta revs today and all I have to do is Diversion their Unrelenting Assault, Mirror the Precision Strike, and daze the Phase Traversal with MoD. Of course, there's a bit more involved but those are the important ones for the most part.

Again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful but this is what I mean when I say you don't have much experience fighting against good mantra mesmers. It's not very hard for one of them to shut you down, escape, and come back to one-shot you in the near future.