For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras!

[Math.5123]

@viquing.8254 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Aegis share used to be guardian exclusive, now mesmers can do it. You don't see me acting like a 4 year old about it. (I know you could technically chaos storm for an aegis proc to share.)Thanks to remember me that distorsion sharing was nerfed ...

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@bravan.3876 :The problem is that 95% of your arguments are objective : "it's noobcarrying", "it's skills", "it's braindead", "it's lame", etc. (Come on, where is the argumentation ?)Your argumentation isn't good at all if you don't understand the spike in my last post.You just manipulate opinion with no real data behind.Give me numbers, I agree with you. Give me skill argument, I will always write against.The next problem is that you aren't on the middle at all but slowly nerf mesmers patch after patch. The only difference with you and shadow is that you nerf step by step whereas shadow do axe nerf.And what is dangerous is because many people agree with step by step nerf because you know it's just a step. Now when you do the addition it's worst than ever.

Oh come on, i always explained very detailed and with lot of words why something is lame, op or unhealthy mechanic. Just read all my posts again they wouldn't be wall of texts if i only would judge. I also used a lot of time to explain why something is not op and doesn't need nerfs on Mesmer. But i mean you can stop fighting, you won, i am out here. Neither ppl like you nor ppl like shadow will agree on a little bit no matter how many facts or logic is brought up. He will open another nerf Mantra thread in few days with the same arguments already proven wrong about most of the stuff he crys about. You will never agree to any single little nerf, all is fine, fair and skillbased on Mesmer, even need buffs (only other classes need big nerfs i guess) no matter how much i or others explain. Do what you want, i am tired of that kitten.

I already read your posts in integrality much times, and they mainly contain objective view like in the CI discussion where CI was lame because PB is skilled. The few value you give are 5+ stealth duration which when we read the CD is not that op IMO.Again when we start looking about proves like seeing streams (not only the 10 sec vids of a mesmer one shotting someone shadow give.), we found that not only they are not that represented but also they don't 100% kill builds who aren't glassy and are hard countered by many +1 opponents.

It's not about fighting something and I already post balance suggestions with nerfs.

Ofc it was nerfed. Every class has received nerfs. Chrono is still the best in slot tank Even after 4 years worth of Chrono nerfs in pve.Distort share literally trivialized raid fights in itself. It had to go. Distort is still mesmer only. So is blur. Pretty sure ethereal fields are also mesmer only.

Give me one thing guardian has that no other class does. One thing warrior has.

[Xstein.2187]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Aegis share used to be guardian exclusive, now mesmers can do it. You don't see me acting like a 4 year old about it. (I know you could technically chaos storm for an aegis proc to share.)Thanks to remember me that distorsion sharing was nerfed ...

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@bravan.3876 :The problem is that 95% of your arguments are objective : "it's noobcarrying", "it's skills", "it's braindead", "it's lame", etc. (Come on, where is the argumentation ?)Your argumentation isn't good at all if you don't understand the spike in my last post.You just manipulate opinion with no real data behind.Give me numbers, I agree with you. Give me skill argument, I will always write against.The next problem is that you aren't on the middle at all but slowly nerf mesmers patch after patch. The only difference with you and shadow is that you nerf step by step whereas shadow do axe nerf.And what is dangerous is because many people agree with step by step nerf because you know it's just a step. Now when you do the addition it's worst than ever.

Oh come on, i always explained very detailed and with lot of words why something is lame, op or unhealthy mechanic. Just read all my posts again they wouldn't be wall of texts if i only would judge. I also used a lot of time to explain why something is not op and doesn't need nerfs on Mesmer. But i mean you can stop fighting, you won, i am out here. Neither ppl like you nor ppl like shadow will agree on a little bit no matter how many facts or logic is brought up. He will open another nerf Mantra thread in few days with the same arguments already proven wrong about most of the stuff he crys about. You will never agree to any single little nerf, all is fine, fair and skillbased on Mesmer, even need buffs (only other classes need big nerfs i guess) no matter how much i or others explain. Do what you want, i am tired of that kitten.

I already read your posts in integrality much times, and they mainly contain objective view like in the CI discussion where CI was lame because PB is skilled. The few value you give are 5+ stealth duration which when we read the CD is not that op IMO.Again when we start looking about proves like seeing streams (not only the 10 sec vids of a mesmer one shotting someone shadow give.), we found that not only they are not that represented but also they don't 100% kill builds who aren't glassy and are hard countered by many +1 opponents.

It's not about fighting something and I already post balance suggestions with nerfs.

Ofc it was nerfed. Every class has received nerfs. Chrono is still the best in slot tank Even after 4 years worth of Chrono nerfs in pve.Distort share literally trivialized raid fights in itself. It had to go. Distort is still mesmer only. So is blur. Pretty sure ethereal fields are also mesmer only.

Give me one thing guardian has that no other class does. One thing warrior has.

Distortion and blur are just names for invulnerability and evade. There are a whole plethora of them on different classes.invulnerability skills.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerabilityhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evadehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drop_Gunkhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sonic_Barrier

I still think that different classes should have had class defining boons and fields.For example: Guardian should have been able to provide aegis only class able to and warrior should have been the only one able to provide might.Right now I feel like there is not enough differentiation between the classes and what they stand for.At the end of the day, you may press different buttons and get different graphics, but all outcomes similar and not that differentiated.

[viquing.8254]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Aegis share used to be guardian exclusive, now mesmers can do it. You don't see me acting like a 4 year old about it. (I know you could technically chaos storm for an aegis proc to share.)Thanks to remember me that distorsion sharing was nerfed ...

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@bravan.3876 :The problem is that 95% of your arguments are objective : "it's noobcarrying", "it's skills", "it's braindead", "it's lame", etc. (Come on, where is the argumentation ?)Your argumentation isn't good at all if you don't understand the spike in my last post.You just manipulate opinion with no real data behind.Give me numbers, I agree with you. Give me skill argument, I will always write against.The next problem is that you aren't on the middle at all but slowly nerf mesmers patch after patch. The only difference with you and shadow is that you nerf step by step whereas shadow do axe nerf.And what is dangerous is because many people agree with step by step nerf because you know it's just a step. Now when you do the addition it's worst than ever.

Oh come on, i always explained very detailed and with lot of words why something is lame, op or unhealthy mechanic. Just read all my posts again they wouldn't be wall of texts if i only would judge. I also used a lot of time to explain why something is not op and doesn't need nerfs on Mesmer. But i mean you can stop fighting, you won, i am out here. Neither ppl like you nor ppl like shadow will agree on a little bit no matter how many facts or logic is brought up. He will open another nerf Mantra thread in few days with the same arguments already proven wrong about most of the stuff he crys about. You will never agree to any single little nerf, all is fine, fair and skillbased on Mesmer, even need buffs (only other classes need big nerfs i guess) no matter how much i or others explain. Do what you want, i am tired of that kitten.

I already read your posts in integrality much times, and they mainly contain objective view like in the CI discussion where CI was lame because PB is skilled. The few value you give are 5+ stealth duration which when we read the CD is not that op IMO.Again when we start looking about proves like seeing streams (not only the 10 sec vids of a mesmer one shotting someone shadow give.), we found that not only they are not that represented but also they don't 100% kill builds who aren't glassy and are hard countered by many +1 opponents.

It's not about fighting something and I already post balance suggestions with nerfs.

Ofc it was nerfed. Every class has received nerfs. Chrono is still the best in slot tank Even after 4 years worth of Chrono nerfs in pve.Distort share literally trivialized raid fights in itself. It had to go. Distort is still mesmer only. So is blur. Pretty sure ethereal fields are also mesmer only.

Give me one thing guardian has that no other class does. One thing warrior has.One thing is easy to find :Guard : instant full condi clear which does 3k+ aoe damage while healing 2k+.War : an immunity to immobilize.BTW I prefer to be as meta as Gard was since day 1 than to have unique utility with a 60+ CD use.

@"Xstein.2187" said:Distortion and blur are just names for invulnerability and evade. There are a whole plethora of them on different classes.invulnerability skills.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drop_Gunk

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sonic_Barrier

I still think that different classes should have had class defining boons and fields.For example: Guardian should have been able to provide aegis only class able to and warrior should have been the only one able to provide might.Right now I feel like there is not enough differentiation between the classes and what they stand for.At the end of the day, you may press different buttons and get different graphics, but all outcomes similar and not that differentiated.Yeah the more time pass, the more class are uniformized.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

These changes are prob happening on the 17th and may work out somewhat so might as well see how they workout before arguing where the mantra skills fit balance wise. Facing and los may be enough to bring them in line, no need for deletes lol

[Abelisk.5148]

If you want to counter one shot mesmer, run a tanky build. It's not optimal in high-tier settings and only punishes players lacking awareness. Weaver for example just has to predict stealth reveals, and evade the rest of their burst. Even Holo has passives that prevent one-shot kills. And one-shot core mes has no mobility, if running the stealth build.

[Math.5123]

@viquing.8254 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Aegis share used to be guardian exclusive, now mesmers can do it. You don't see me acting like a 4 year old about it. (I know you could technically chaos storm for an aegis proc to share.)Thanks to remember me that distorsion sharing was nerfed ...

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@bravan.3876 :The problem is that 95% of your arguments are objective : "it's noobcarrying", "it's skills", "it's braindead", "it's lame", etc. (Come on, where is the argumentation ?)Your argumentation isn't good at all if you don't understand the spike in my last post.You just manipulate opinion with no real data behind.Give me numbers, I agree with you. Give me skill argument, I will always write against.The next problem is that you aren't on the middle at all but slowly nerf mesmers patch after patch. The only difference with you and shadow is that you nerf step by step whereas shadow do axe nerf.And what is dangerous is because many people agree with step by step nerf because you know it's just a step. Now when you do the addition it's worst than ever.

Oh come on, i always explained very detailed and with lot of words why something is lame, op or unhealthy mechanic. Just read all my posts again they wouldn't be wall of texts if i only would judge. I also used a lot of time to explain why something is not op and doesn't need nerfs on Mesmer. But i mean you can stop fighting, you won, i am out here. Neither ppl like you nor ppl like shadow will agree on a little bit no matter how many facts or logic is brought up. He will open another nerf Mantra thread in few days with the same arguments already proven wrong about most of the stuff he crys about. You will never agree to any single little nerf, all is fine, fair and skillbased on Mesmer, even need buffs (only other classes need big nerfs i guess) no matter how much i or others explain. Do what you want, i am tired of that kitten.

I already read your posts in integrality much times, and they mainly contain objective view like in the CI discussion where CI was lame because PB is skilled. The few value you give are 5+ stealth duration which when we read the CD is not that op IMO.Again when we start looking about proves like seeing streams (not only the 10 sec vids of a mesmer one shotting someone shadow give.), we found that not only they are not that represented but also they don't 100% kill builds who aren't glassy and are hard countered by many +1 opponents.

It's not about fighting something and I already post balance suggestions with nerfs.

Ofc it was nerfed. Every class has received nerfs. Chrono is still the best in slot tank Even after 4 years worth of Chrono nerfs in pve.Distort share literally trivialized raid fights in itself. It had to go. Distort is still mesmer only. So is blur. Pretty sure ethereal fields are also mesmer only.

Give me one thing guardian has that no other class does. One thing warrior has.One thing is easy to find :Guard : instant full condi clear which does 3k+ aoe damage while healing 2k+.

These are two different skills and a grandmaster trait you're describing.Smite condition cleanses 3 condis and deals damage. It also heals you with monks focus.Contemplation of purity is a full convert that doesn't do any damage. It also heals you with monks focus.

War : an immunity to immobilize.

It's called resistance. Something mesmer also has.

BTW I prefer to be as meta as Gard was since day 1 than to have unique utility with a 60+ CD use.

Guard wasn't meta in HoT.

@"Xstein.2187" said:Distortion and blur are just names for invulnerability and evade. There are a whole plethora of them on different classes.invulnerability skills.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drop_Gunk

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sonic_Barrier

I still think that different classes should have had class defining boons and fields.For example: Guardian should have been able to provide aegis only class able to and warrior should have been the only one able to provide might.Right now I feel like there is not enough differentiation between the classes and what they stand for.At the end of the day, you may press different buttons and get different graphics, but all outcomes similar and not that differentiated.Yeah the more time pass, the more class are uniformized.

This thread isn't about Guardian or mesmer unique abilities. Now that most, if not all your claims have been debunked. I'll show myself out.

[viquing.8254]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:These are two different skills and a grandmaster trait you're describing.Smite condition cleanses 3 condis and deals damage. It also heals you with monks focus.Contemplation of purity is a full convert that doesn't do any damage. It also heals you with monks focus.You can look at ring of warding if a condiclear with damage is not enough for you.It's called resistance. Something mesmer also has.Nop it's called warrior spint and it's way more efficient and unique that any resistance a class could use.You can also look at reckless dodge if it's not enough for you.

BTW I prefer to be as meta as Gard was since day 1 than to have unique utility with a 60+ CD use.Guard wasn't meta in HoT.Leaderboard was full of Guards during HoT.This thread isn't about Guardian or mesmer unique abilities. Now that most, if not all your claims have been debunked. I'll show myself out.If you think so, hf.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@viquing.8254 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@alain.1659 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@alain.1659 said:Bring glamour trait back, re nerf staff 2(could be used to jump back onto walls and stuff years ago) buff staff 5 and sword 3 or rework them. Put some love into focus and sword off hand. With these in mind do a total rework on mesmer, changin its role into something else than a burst class ( which is all you can do with power mes in a competitive arena). Then remove the mesmer mantras. Remove gimmicky builds and so.

I have been playing it so long and there was something called cloneless mesmer back in the days. Phantas mes, shatter mes, glamour mes, condi duelist mes et. There were so many options.

There were so many nerfs on mes and so many bad new skills/abilities invented for other professions that mesmer lost its character/uniqueness. I feel that no mes player from pre hot is really happy with where the profession is going.

Buff staff 5? Are you high?

Not higher than those who whined this class into oblivion or the devs that gave unique class abilities to other professions and then nerf it into the ground, no.

Mesmer still has more class unique abilities than most other classes.

Like portal ?Or alacrity ?Or quickness ?Or moa ?Or group stealth ?Thanks for noticing it's not anymore the case. :3 <3

As a Mesmer main in PvP and WvW, I like to put my 2 cents in to help using 2 mins of research.

• Portal: No argument there as it was for the longest time mesmer exclusive
• Alacrity: (Added Oct 2015), Was given to Chronomancer. Added to rev on Feb 2017, meaning it was a mesmer exclusive for ~16 months (long enough to be considered exclusive) so there is no contest here either.
• Quickness: (Added Aug 2012), Was given to Mesmer via Time Warp, Guardian didn't get it until June 2015 when Feel My Wrath obtained it as a boon. Again, long enough to be considered exclusive to mesmer so no contest here.
• Moa: Also no contest as Elixir X didnt see it until June 2015 via Toss Elixir X. Mesmer had it Aug 2012 with Polymorph Moa/Tuna
• Group Stealth: Mesmer had Veil as of Aug 2012 and Thief had it at the same time, thus this wasn't a Mesmer exclusive skill (SR also had a longer duration) so this would ht the only incorrect claim.

Your Welcome everyone :)

[shippage.1983]

As mostly a Mesmer main, I completely agree. There's really no counter play to mantras except to hard predict them or mitigate the damage. Mesmer really should not have instant casts in my opinion (yes I'm including shatters as well). Not to mention, I don't find Mantras fun at all to play with, and they're definitely not fun to fight against. Like if you really want to keep it instant, at least have them be a magical projectile that comes out so there's some counterplay.

But my ideal solution would be to get rid of charging mantras, and just have it be depleted. A good example of charging ammo skills that are at least more balanced are the Weaver's stance skills. When they run out of ammo, they naturally charge on their own. They also have a projectile that usually comes out.

Honestly I just think Mantras should work exactly the same way as Weaver skills. Also a far-fetched request, but also Firebrand mantas would be nice to work similarly, just because it's annoying to charge 3 to 4 mantras after every spawn.

[Xstein.2187]

@shippage.1983 said:As mostly a Mesmer main, I completely agree. There's really no counter play to mantras except to hard predict them or mitigate the damage. Mesmer really should not have instant casts in my opinion (yes I'm including shatters as well). Not to mention, I don't find Mantras fun at all to play with, and they're definitely not fun to fight against. Like if you really want to keep it instant, at least have them be a magical projectile that comes out so there's some counterplay.

But my ideal solution would be to get rid of charging mantras, and just have it be depleted. A good example of charging ammo skills that are at least more balanced are the Weaver's stance skills. When they run out of ammo, they naturally charge on their own. They also have a projectile that usually comes out.

Honestly I just think Mantras should work exactly the same way as Weaver skills. Also a far-fetched request, but also Firebrand mantas would be nice to work similarly, just because it's annoying to charge 3 to 4 mantras after every spawn.

Mantras are fine as long as they don't have anything to do with damage. Most of them are fine.However, mantra of pain just needs to be completely reworked into something else.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Xstein.2187 said:I still think that different classes should have had class defining boons and fields.

sry to butt into your discussion, but I read this and I have to say: absolutely no. this is the # 1 reason why we have metas that don't change since game release. there are other ways to make classes unique without gimping gameplay. some classes should do it best but no class should have a monopoly on anything.

[Mandatory.6590]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:I still think that different classes should have had class defining boons and fields.

sry to butt into your discussion, but I read this and I have to say: absolutely no. this is the # 1 reason why we have metas that don't change since game release. there are other ways to make classes unique without gimping gameplay. some classes should do it best but no class should have a monopoly on anything.

No, it's actually giving classes things that they should never have that keeps them meta.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Mandatory.6590 said:No, it's actually giving classes things that they should never have that keeps them meta.

like what? the majority of stale metas comes from class only mechanics.

[Justine.6351]

Lol, why not ask for nerf chronomancer too while you are at it.

[viquing.8254]

@"shippage.1983" said:As mostly a Mesmer main, I completely agree. There's really no counter play to mantras except to hard predict them or mitigate the damage. Mesmer really should not have instant casts in my opinion (yes I'm including shatters as well).Yeah moreover it's fine to have op instant casts on other class. Like clone death on mesmer was cheesy but it's fine to have unblocable 4k warrior evade spam.Not to mention, I don't find Mantras fun at all to play with, and they're definitely not fun to fight against. Like if you really want to keep it instant, at least have them be a magical projectile that comes out so there's some counterplay.We live in a meta where most 5k+ damages skill are instant, with near to no cast time or with 3 in 1 effects. Again start by the global environnement before focus on a class.Remember that before the "high mantra rework" MoP was mainly used to non-viable build who relie on proc heal on mantra cast.But my ideal solution would be to get rid of charging mantras, and just have it be depleted. A good example of charging ammo skills that are at least more balanced are the Weaver's stance skills. When they run out of ammo, they naturally charge on their own. They also have a projectile that usually comes out.Honestly I just think Mantras should work exactly the same way as Weaver skills. Also a far-fetched request, but also Firebrand mantas would be nice to work similarly, just because it's annoying to charge 3 to 4 mantras after every spawn.Did you know that the annoying mantra cast is supposed to be the counterpart of mantra ?Weaver is full of instant/ less than 1 sec cast skills but why not.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:I still think that different classes should have had class defining boons and fields.

sry to butt into your discussion, but I read this and I have to say: absolutely no. this is the # 1 reason why we have metas that don't change since game release. there are other ways to make classes unique without gimping gameplay. some classes should do it best but no class should have a monopoly on anything.

The problem in a world where all class are uniformized and to the same thing is that there will always be one who do 1 thing better than other who will be high represented. I mean the day necro are as good as 1v1, +1 and roam than in teamfight, why take other class apart for the colors ?Whereas if all class have particularity, yeah it has pro and cons too but it's easier to no have 1 must have class.

[Math.5123]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@alain.1659 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@alain.1659 said:Bring glamour trait back, re nerf staff 2(could be used to jump back onto walls and stuff years ago) buff staff 5 and sword 3 or rework them. Put some love into focus and sword off hand. With these in mind do a total rework on mesmer, changin its role into something else than a burst class ( which is all you can do with power mes in a competitive arena). Then remove the mesmer mantras. Remove gimmicky builds and so.

I have been playing it so long and there was something called cloneless mesmer back in the days. Phantas mes, shatter mes, glamour mes, condi duelist mes et. There were so many options.

There were so many nerfs on mes and so many bad new skills/abilities invented for other professions that mesmer lost its character/uniqueness. I feel that no mes player from pre hot is really happy with where the profession is going.

Buff staff 5? Are you high?

Not higher than those who whined this class into oblivion or the devs that gave unique class abilities to other professions and then nerf it into the ground, no.

Mesmer still has more class unique abilities than most other classes.

Like portal ?Or alacrity ?Or quickness ?Or moa ?Or group stealth ?Thanks for noticing it's not anymore the case. :3 <3

As a Mesmer main in PvP and WvW, I like to put my 2 cents in to help using 2 mins of research.

• Portal: No argument there as it was for the longest time mesmer exclusive
• Alacrity: (Added Oct 2015), Was given to Chronomancer. Added to rev on Feb 2017, meaning it was a mesmer exclusive for ~16 months (long enough to be considered exclusive) so there is no contest here either.
• Quickness: (Added Aug 2012), Was given to Mesmer via Time Warp, Guardian didn't get it until June 2015 when Feel My Wrath obtained it as a boon. Again, long enough to be considered exclusive to mesmer so no contest here.
• Moa: Also no contest as Elixir X didnt see it until June 2015 via Toss Elixir X. Mesmer had it Aug 2012 with Polymorph Moa/Tuna
• Group Stealth: Mesmer had Veil as of Aug 2012 and Thief had it at the same time, thus this wasn't a Mesmer exclusive skill (SR also had a longer duration) so this would ht the only incorrect claim.

Your Welcome everyone :)

Considering you seem to have an inability to read. Guardian had quickness through one of their tomes before feel my wrath was a thing.

[Simonoly.4352]

Anet could just add the mantra charges on enemy tooltip back in. Then you know when a Mesmer has mantra charges available at the beginning of a fight. It's not so relevant during a fight as you'll likely see the Mesmer charging it and either burning through various sustain to ensure they're not interrupted (which is great) or being a super risky dude and trying to charge without covering (which is even better).

Most people are fully capable of dealing with mantras. Anet just need to give people more information on when mantra charges are available like we used to have.

[dronte.3416]

What is this meme thread :D

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@viquing.8254 said:The problem in a world where all class are uniformized and to the same thing is that there will always be one who do 1 thing better than other who will be high represented. I mean the day necro are as good as 1v1, +1 and roam than in teamfight, why take other class apart for the colors ?Whereas if all class have particularity, yeah it has pro and cons too but it's easier to no have 1 must have class.

seems you didn't read what I wrote, so nvm.

[mortrialus.3062]

@shadowpass.4236 said:Hi @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"

I'm tired of getting one-shot from stealth because the mesmer stealthed halfway across the map and insta-killed me with ZERO tells or any chance to react.

• Mantra of Recovery is busted. It gives between a 6555 and 8515 heal on a TWELVE second cooldown. Fun.
• Mantra of Pain is bloated. 12 might stacks on a ONE second cooldown that can crit you twice for 4k damage each. Fun.
• Mantra of Distraction is busted. Two, instant cast, 1200 range, 1.5 second dazes on a TWELVE second cooldown that also recharges Diversion by 15 seconds. Insanity.
• Mantra of Resolve is literally one of the strongest utilities in the game. FULL CONDITION REMOVAL on a TWELVE second cooldown that also cleanses 6 more conditions afterwards. Fantastic.
• No one uses Mantra of Concentration but it's overpowered anyways. DOUBLE STUN BREAK 7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a FIFTEEN second cooldown. Amazing.

Here are some other ones:

• Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.
• Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted. It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...
  • Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a TWELVE second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???
• The third part of the auto chain on Sword does as much damage as the entirety of Blurred Frenzy. It can crit for 7k.

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. there are more skills but I don't feel like listing them right now tldr mesmer is still busted

Oh, and please remove Berserker Amulet from sPvP. Only one-shot builds use it and it's not fun, nor skillful, nor interactive for either party.

And before I get a bunch of G W 2 p l a y e r s telling me that mantras aren't even meta. I literally couldn't care less. What's the point of learning how to play the game if someone can just delete you instantly without even trying.

Overall agree, particularly about the offensive mantras like Distraction and Pain. I don't think anyone particularly likes mantras. Like you can see the joy in streamer's faces fade, including excellent usually plat 3 players, when they're up against mantras.

It's just fact of the matter that as far as the game goes, mantras are almost as low as it gets in terms of counter play. Once charged they are instant cast, meaning you can do damage or massive disruption with no animation investment, freeing you up to act using other skills. Not only are they instant cast, they have no projectiles. They cannot be reflected or mitigated with projectile destruction despite being 1200 unit ranged attacks. They're almost as free as it gets in terms of usage the only option a player really has to stop them is to hide behind walls. Against mantras it's never a matter of how well you counter play them so much as it's up the the memser to actively botch using them.

And when you're dealing with something that crits for 4k in an era where most players have 16k health that's just too much, too freely, too easily, too unpredictably. And no, charging them in the heat of the combat is not particularly hard for any remotely skilled mesmer.

I don't think the player base at large would miss the mesmer mantras if they were suddenly deleted. I think both them and greatsword are overdue for a complete rework, something to make them more fluid and balanced in it's distribution of damage and overall creates a power damage playstyle that feels less like exploiting halfbaked 2012 game mechanics to overlap 8 pulses of damage out all at once. At the very least the offensive mantras should receive projectiles giving them more valid actionable counter play as soon as possible.

[viquing.8254]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@viquing.8254 said:The problem in a world where all class are uniformized and to the same thing is that there will always be one who do 1 thing better than other who will be high represented. I mean the day necro are as good as 1v1, +1 and roam than in teamfight, why take other class apart for the colors ?Whereas if all class have particularity, yeah it has pro and cons too but it's easier to no have 1 must have class.

seems you didn't read what I wrote, so nvm.

Seems you didn't read what I wrote too, so I will explain clearier : it's easier to balance when talking about diversity when class have particularity, even if in a ideal world everyone should have option depending of builds.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Hi @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"

I'm tired of getting one-shot from stealth because the mesmer stealthed halfway across the map and insta-killed me with ZERO tells or any chance to react.

• Mantra of Recovery is busted. It gives between a 6555 and 8515 heal on a
  TWELVE
  second cooldown. Fun.
• Mantra of Pain is bloated. 12 might stacks on a
  ONE
  second cooldown that can crit you twice for 4k damage each. Fun.
• Mantra of Distraction is busted. Two, instant cast, 1200 range, 1.5 second dazes on a
  TWELVE
  second cooldown that also recharges Diversion by 15 seconds. Insanity.
• Mantra of Resolve is literally one of the strongest utilities in the game.
  FULL CONDITION REMOVAL
  on a
  TWELVE
  second cooldown that also cleanses 6 more conditions afterwards. Fantastic.
• No one uses Mantra of Concentration but it's overpowered anyways.
  DOUBLE STUN BREAK
  7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a
  FIFTEEN
  second cooldown. Amazing.

Here are some other ones:

• Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.
• Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted. It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...
  • Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a
    TWELVE
    second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???
• The third part of the auto chain on Sword does as much damage as the entirety of Blurred Frenzy.
  It can crit for 7k.

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. there are more skills but I don't feel like listing them right now tldr mesmer is still busted

Oh, and please remove Berserker Amulet from sPvP.

Only one-shot builds use it and it's not fun, nor skillful, nor interactive for either party.

And before I get a bunch of G W 2 p l a y e r s telling me that mantras aren't even meta. I literally couldn't care less. What's the point of

learning how to play the game

if someone can just delete you instantly without even trying.

Overall agree, particularly about the offensive mantras like Distraction and Pain. I don't think anyone particularly likes mantras. Like you can see the joy in streamer's faces fade, including excellent usually plat 3 players, when they're up against mantras.

It's just fact of the matter that as far as the game goes, mantras are almost as low as it gets in terms of counter play. Once charged they are instant cast, meaning you can do damage or massive disruption with no animation investment, freeing you up to act using other skills. Not only are they instant cast, they have no projectiles. They cannot be reflected or mitigated with projectile destruction despite being 1200 unit ranged attacks. They're almost as free as it gets in terms of usage the only option a player really has to stop them is to hide behind walls. Against mantras it's never a matter of how well you counter play them so much as it's up the the memser to actively botch using them.

And when you're dealing with something that crits for 4k in an era where most players have 16k health that's just too much, too freely, too easily, too unpredictably. And no, charging them in the heat of the combat is not particularly hard for any remotely skilled mesmer.

I don't think the player base at large would miss the mesmer mantras if they were suddenly deleted. I think both them and greatsword are overdue for a complete rework, something to make them more fluid and balanced in it's distribution of damage and overall creates a power damage playstyle that feels less like exploiting halfbaked 2012 game mechanics to overlap 8 pulses of damage out all at once. At the very least the offensive mantras should receive projectiles giving them more valid actionable counter play as soon as possible.

What I see in streamer's stream is very few mesmers (not in every match) and much few mantra. (just look ajaxx last stream during hours for example.).OFC no one will complain about mantra build removal because :

• For top player it wasn't ever meta so they don't care.
• For plebs it is OP so they are happy.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Whatever deletes their one sec burst u to death is great in my books. Other classes like DE etc as well. Part of the reason the pvp in this games a joke outside of gw2 players lol

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Whatever deletes their one sec burst u to death is great in my books. Other classes like DE etc as well. Part of the reason the pvp in this games a joke outside of gw2 players lol

pvp is a joke becouse every mid fight consists of scourge and firebrand that wankeachother on mid with shield/heal/boons and revives, had a fight where i did 540k damage, 1 teamfight. nobody died. just shieldwanking for days, thats whats really annoying.

[Funkystuff.1563]

i haven't played pvp a year and a half ago. i gave it a try this week and i got sick of it after facing a condi mesmer with illusions who was in stealth mode non stop and blinking away-healing and coming back . 2 holos trying to kill him for about 3 minutes. he spend the whole game staying on our close trying to make us abandon the game and reminding me why i left it in first place. Seriously this skillset and traits that a mesmer has in combination with the map awareness of a good player make it broken and totally unpleasant to play against. nerf this class or better rework it .

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Whatever deletes their one sec burst u to death is great in my books. Other classes like DE etc as well. Part of the reason the pvp in this games a joke outside of gw2 players lol

pvp is a joke becouse every mid fight consists of scourge and firebrand that wankeachother on mid with shield/heal/boons and revives, had a fight where i did 540k damage, 1 teamfight. nobody died. just shieldwanking for days, thats whats really annoying.

Yeah can't argue with u about that, there are a few specs that need basically 2 or three players to take them down if their good cuz their sustain is way over tuned, the rest of the specs its cheese one burst downs over and over. man gw2 pvp is fun eh lol.