Upcoming PvP Balance Complaints

[Mega.5791]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Mirage still has too much evade or invuln.

But If we include blocks and other direct damage mitigation/denial skills, along with endurance regen (and ini regen for thief) and passive traits; Mirage has less than every medium armor class, less than ele, and less survivability than war. In any case that isn’t direct access to on demand cooldowns; then it’s loses out on access over time.

Some you call out here, but there would have to be

massive

reductions to everything else before Mirage would “have to much”. You could remove thief’s flat endurance regen, then delete ranger swords and dagger, and they’d still have more than Mirage.

What would you honestly get rid of at this point? Reduce distortion so each clone gave half a second of invulnerability?

(...)OT:weaver's problem, imo it's the stab uptime and stunbreak uptime. they can easily cover it's weak point(fire/lightning)with high stab and stunbreak uptime and easily switch to water/earth for evade.(...)

Not denying weaver will be strong/meta, but the stab uptime is no issue in my view. Assuming spamming Primordial Stance and ToF, you can get ~20 seconds of permanent 1 stack of stab with 4 applications - and after that an uptime of about 35% of single stacks. Regarding the amount of CCs - corrupts not so often anymore -, that is not really much, though not a weakness either indeed.(Using Unravel bumbs this up, but only dagger builds use it and not for stab but mostly for Shocking aura.)€: Add 5s for the elite, forgot that. :grimace: Also adds like 7% to the continuous uptime.)

Stunbreaks, though, weaver builds generally lack those. ToF is the only stunbreak and while you can stark fights with 2 charges, they recharge only after 50s (!). That is a huge duration compared to PoF standards.(Some FA builds have Arcane shield - another stunbreak, but on a huge CD as well.)

[shion.2084]

This season I've faced a couple of weavers that were just unremovable solo from point. I play a holo so I'm suppose to have a high damage spike. I also couldn't afford to stay on point to contest. I essentially just had to give up and move on without help. Even with help it took a long time to deal with. This only happens with better players, the average weaver I see is quite killable, but the good ones... its like there's no point in fighting.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@shion.2084 said:This season I've faced a couple of weavers that were just unremovable solo from point. I play a holo so I'm suppose to have a high damage spike. I also couldn't afford to stay on point to contest. I essentially just had to give up and move on without help. Even with help it took a long time to deal with. This only happens with better players, the average weaver I see is quite killable, but the good ones... its like there's no point in fighting.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Weavers are in the unique position new or not so great players will be easier to take down than most of the others due to its base squishiness, higher skill floor and reliance on skillfull use of its defensive tools but a great player who is great on the class will utilize those tools effectively showing how OP they actually are.

[Lighter.5631]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Mirage still has too much evade or invuln.

But If we include blocks and other direct damage mitigation/denial skills, along with endurance regen (and ini regen for thief) and passive traits; Mirage has less than every medium armor class, less than ele, and less survivability than war. In any case that isn’t direct access to on demand cooldowns; then it’s loses out on access over time.

Some you call out here, but there would have to be

massive

reductions to everything else before Mirage would “have to much”. You could remove thief’s flat endurance regen, then delete ranger swords and dagger, and they’d still have more than Mirage.

What would you honestly get rid of at this point? Reduce distortion so each clone gave half a second of invulnerability?

(...)OT:weaver's problem, imo it's the stab uptime and stunbreak uptime. they can easily cover it's weak point(fire/lightning)with high stab and stunbreak uptime and easily switch to water/earth for evade.(...)

Not denying weaver will be strong/meta, but the stab uptime is no issue in my view. Assuming spamming Primordial Stance and ToF, you can get ~20 seconds of permanent 1 stack of stab with 4 applications - and after that an uptime of about 35% of single stacks. Regarding the amount of CCs - corrupts not so often anymore -, that is not really much, though not a weakness either indeed.(Using Unravel bumbs this up, but only dagger builds use it and not for stab but mostly for Shocking aura.)€: Add 5s for the elite, forgot that. :grimace: Also adds like 7% to the continuous uptime.)

Stunbreaks, though, weaver builds generally lack those. ToF is the only stunbreak and while you can stark fights with 2 charges, they recharge only after 50s (!). That is a huge duration compared to PoF standards.(Some FA builds have Arcane shield - another stunbreak, but on a huge CD as well.)

your statics disapproved none of my point..not sure if i understand your comment.

By stab uptime, it is mentioned as stab uptime for it's weak point and in relationship to the evade up time. stab uptime covers it's weakness, if you have less stab, you are more likely to get caught in fire phase then in turns shaved sustain without shaving evade and you were supposed to be more vulnerable in fire but because of the stab/stunbreak you get, u can easily get back to water/earth. i only use my stab/stunbreak on fire/air anyway, because i don't need them when im on water/eareth

[Stallic.2397]

I could see fire weavers becoming meta, and soon unkillable if they keep nerfing other specs. It does have a good balance between sustain and damage. But that's only because of pyromancers puissance. That trait grants them 25 stacks of might. Take that away and fire weavers are back to bunker mode.

It will get nerfed sooner or later. It seems like the devs are moving away from self granted 25 stacks in all classes. Let's just hope it doesn't kill fire Weaver.

As for Weaver evades in general, they only needed nerf is recharge time on twist of fate. Evasion is a core mechanic for ele since launch. Don't nerf the weapon skills!

Twist of fate recharges way too fast, that's why they seem unkillable

[Sindrener.1592]

Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

[bravan.3876]

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

[Mega.5791]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Mirage still has too much evade or invuln.

But If we include blocks and other direct damage mitigation/denial skills, along with endurance regen (and ini regen for thief) and passive traits; Mirage has less than every medium armor class, less than ele, and less survivability than war. In any case that isn’t direct access to on demand cooldowns; then it’s loses out on access over time.

Some you call out here, but there would have to be

massive

reductions to everything else before Mirage would “have to much”. You could remove thief’s flat endurance regen, then delete ranger swords and dagger, and they’d still have more than Mirage.

What would you honestly get rid of at this point? Reduce distortion so each clone gave half a second of invulnerability?

(...)OT:weaver's problem, imo it's the stab uptime and stunbreak uptime. they can easily cover it's weak point(fire/lightning)with high stab and stunbreak uptime and easily switch to water/earth for evade.(...)

Not denying weaver will be strong/meta, but the stab uptime is no issue in my view. Assuming spamming Primordial Stance and ToF, you can get ~20 seconds of permanent 1 stack of stab with 4 applications - and after that an uptime of about 35% of single stacks. Regarding the amount of CCs - corrupts not so often anymore -, that is not really much, though not a weakness either indeed.(Using Unravel bumbs this up, but only dagger builds use it and not for stab but mostly for Shocking aura.)€: Add 5s for the elite, forgot that. :grimace: Also adds like 7% to the continuous uptime.)

Stunbreaks, though, weaver builds generally lack those. ToF is the only stunbreak and while you can stark fights with 2 charges, they recharge only after 50s (!). That is a huge duration compared to PoF standards.(Some FA builds have Arcane shield - another stunbreak, but on a huge CD as well.)

your statics disapproved none of my point..not sure if i understand your comment.

By stab uptime, it is mentioned as stab uptime for it's weak point and in relationship to the evade up time. stab uptime covers it's weakness, if you have less stab, you are more likely to get caught in fire phase then in turns shaved sustain without shaving evade and you were supposed to be more vulnerable in fire but because of the stab/stunbreak you get, u can easily get back to water/earth. i only use my stab/stunbreak on fire/air anyway, because i don't need them when im on water/eareth

I simply meant, the values are not excessively high and have not been change (significantly) since PoF launch. Neither stab uptime nor stunbreaks are the problem why Fire weaver came up - it is the incredibly string condi clear in fire combined with single condition burst. That should be addressed before further nerfs, which might be necessary when the other builds get nerfed. But I'd prefer changing only Fire weaver relevant skills first, because changing ToF, stab duration or reducing the total amount of (random) evades hurts other builds as well. Like Water weaver, FA and D/D builds. Which are not the problem currently.

So, I'd be open to discuss suggestion! My proposal - as mentioned above - is:a) Reduce condi clears of transmute aura to 1 in PVP only. Maybe only for fire aura? Might hurt Tempest, but that's a whole different story. Maybe also add ICD for Sunspot to specifically address Fire weaver?b) The burn burst should be reduced towards more longterm DPS. Glyph towards a less spammy playstyle, maybe change the condi application by Primordial stance to not apply twice the condi if double attuned or something like that.

If it remains oppressive or Water weaver or so becomes a problem:a) Increase Riptide CD to 14s, maybe change the water field duration for less combos in total.b) The Primordial stance buff was random and unasked for anyway. Reverting that would be fine for me.

If you have more specific ideas, let's hear them! :smile:

[Sindrener.1592]

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

If they reverted swipe to steal and made blinding powder instant cast it would be kreygasm dp thief would be fkn amazing to play again

[bravan.3876]

@bluri.2653 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

If they reverted swipe to steal and made blinding powder instant cast it would be kreygasm dp thief would be kitten amazing to play again

Yep i clearly would try that again too. The remove of the instant cast on Blinding Powder indeed still hurts, i cannot understand at all, even worse that cmc said they think about removing instant skills even further... i am genuinely worried. The only thing i rly would remove is the unblockable on swipe, instant skills should not be unblockable.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

If they reverted swipe to steal and made blinding powder instant cast it would be kreygasm dp thief would be kitten amazing to play again

Yep i clearly would try that again too. The remove of the instant cast on Blinding Powder indeed still hurts, i cannot understand at all, even worse that cmc said they think about removing instant skills even further... i am genuinely worried. The only thing i rly would remove is the unblockable on swipe, instant skills should not be unblockable.

Why shouldn't they be unblockable?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

If they reverted swipe to steal and made blinding powder instant cast it would be kreygasm dp thief would be kitten amazing to play again

Yep i clearly would try that again too. The remove of the instant cast on Blinding Powder indeed still hurts, i cannot understand at all, even worse that cmc said they think about removing instant skills even further... i am genuinely worried. The only thing i rly would remove is the unblockable on swipe, instant skills should not be unblockable.

Remove unblockable and revert swipe to 1200 or even 900. That be sweet

[bravan.3876]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

If they reverted swipe to steal and made blinding powder instant cast it would be kreygasm dp thief would be kitten amazing to play again

Yep i clearly would try that again too. The remove of the instant cast on Blinding Powder indeed still hurts, i cannot understand at all, even worse that cmc said they think about removing instant skills even further... i am genuinely worried. The only thing i rly would remove is the unblockable on swipe, instant skills should not be unblockable.

Why shouldn't they be unblockable?

Because that the skill is instant is already a strong mechanic. To make that strong instant mechanic balanced the instant skill should not have big effects (like big dmg, big hard cc as stun etc.) by its own. The instant skill only should have a bigger impact when it is combined with other (not instant) skills for mightfull combos. Now combining instant skills with unblockable ability means combining 2 strong mechnics with less counter into one skill, that has a high chance of being too strong. Another reason is: Instant skills lack in animations and for that lack in every counter ability that is based on reading animations, so precasting channelskills like blocks or applied aegis by predicting an instant attack will come soon should not also disappear as counter for the opponent. It results in unblockable instants skill having remarkable less counters than other skills. When you then also add a no los ability to an instant range unblockable skill it starts to get ridiculous.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

If they reverted swipe to steal and made blinding powder instant cast it would be kreygasm dp thief would be kitten amazing to play again

Yep i clearly would try that again too. The remove of the instant cast on Blinding Powder indeed still hurts, i cannot understand at all, even worse that cmc said they think about removing instant skills even further... i am genuinely worried. The only thing i rly would remove is the unblockable on swipe, instant skills should not be unblockable.

Remove unblockable and revert swipe to 1200 or even 900. That be sweet

I don't mind a higher range, 600 feels a bit clunky but yes only when unblockable gets removed.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

If they reverted swipe to steal and made blinding powder instant cast it would be kreygasm dp thief would be kitten amazing to play again

Yep i clearly would try that again too. The remove of the instant cast on Blinding Powder indeed still hurts, i cannot understand at all, even worse that cmc said they think about removing instant skills even further... i am genuinely worried. The only thing i rly would remove is the unblockable on swipe, instant skills should not be unblockable.

Why shouldn't they be unblockable?

Because that the skill is instant is already a strong mechanic. To make that strong instant mechanic balanced the instant skill should not have big effects (like big dmg, big hard cc as stun etc.) by its own. The instant skill only should have a bigger impact when it is combined with other (not instant) skills for mightfull combos. Now combining instant skills with unblockable ability means combining 2 strong mechnics with less counter into one skill, that has a high chance of being too strong. Another reason is: Instant skills lack in animations and for that lack in every counter ability that is based on reading animations, so precasting channelskills like blocks or applied aegis by predicting an instant attack will come soon should not also disappear as counter for the opponent. It results in unblockable instants skill having remarkable less counters than other skills. When you then also add a no los ability to an instant range unblockable skill it starts to get ridiculous.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

If they reverted swipe to steal and made blinding powder instant cast it would be kreygasm dp thief would be kitten amazing to play again

Yep i clearly would try that again too. The remove of the instant cast on Blinding Powder indeed still hurts, i cannot understand at all, even worse that cmc said they think about removing instant skills even further... i am genuinely worried. The only thing i rly would remove is the unblockable on swipe, instant skills should not be unblockable.

Remove unblockable and revert swipe to 1200 or even 900. That be sweet

I don't mind a higher range, 600 feels a bit clunky but yes only when unblockable gets removed.

I had a feeling it was about channeled blocks.

You said yourself you want to avoid instant skills by prediction.

I reccomend dodge.

There are plenty of loaded skills, and if instant cast by YOuR rules means it cant be unlockable too, then I disagree.

The skill has to be TRAITED to interrupt, to do damage, and to possibly do more damage if you pull off an interupt, and if you want to remove boons (aegis), you need another trait.

4 traits, for a profession mechanic limited to 600 range...to even be remotely effective....yeah instant cast and unlockable are fine.

I doubt swipe is ever going to get a range buff.

Maybe beg for 750 like smoke assault.

As it is, it's good.

So, in conclusion. I disagree with your claim.

Skills can be loaded, even if unblockable, if they have other limitations.

[Daishi.6027]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Mirage still has too much evade or invuln.

But If we include blocks and other direct damage mitigation/denial skills, along with endurance regen (and ini regen for thief) and passive traits; Mirage has less than every medium armor class, less than ele, and less survivability than war. In any case that isn’t direct access to on demand cooldowns; then it’s loses out on access over time.

Some you call out here, but there would have to be

massive

reductions to everything else before Mirage would “have to much”. You could remove thief’s flat endurance regen, then delete ranger swords and dagger, and they’d still have more than Mirage.

What would you honestly get rid of at this point? Reduce distortion so each clone gave half a second of invulnerability?

nono, problem is mirage having too much evade uptime but it's attack are coming for all angles and also ranged, both thief/weaver are melee range attacks, Deadeye's dodge is super limited, also you are able to dodge while CC'ed, these are the biggest problem for mirage, you can't just bring something up and say other classes have more without properly comparing other part of the class.

It's attacks coming from all angles is a result of illusions specifically from condi, and is a bigger deal because of autos; which is a problem and is actively being addressed as we speak. This is a red herring and has nothing to do with the evasions. Also being ranged doesn't make a difference nor does it discredit any point regarding the other two medium classes. Besides I hardly consider being able to instantly port in and out of an opponents face depending on the build to have any real drawbacks of "melee" when the ports ontop of the evasion gives up the risk of being hit.

Deadeye may have limits however it can easily escape into stealth allowing it to stall any evasive cooldowns for when it whiffs, and flat out "not being target able" means you don't have to expend as many.

As for evading while CCed: mirage gets significantly less stability or flat out stun denials (like easy access denial [low down time, and not part of damage rotation or set up], or "port aways" on demand) That feature is at best on par, sitting on the same 2 evasions as the rest of the cast, while getting less endurance regen than any other evasive build. Plus this feature is only relevant after you've been stunned and eating whatever damage that entails, which is significantly worse than having a dodge readily available to avoid it or just regen-ing the health like some of the other mentioned classes.

[bravan.3876]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

If they reverted swipe to steal and made blinding powder instant cast it would be kreygasm dp thief would be kitten amazing to play again

Yep i clearly would try that again too. The remove of the instant cast on Blinding Powder indeed still hurts, i cannot understand at all, even worse that cmc said they think about removing instant skills even further... i am genuinely worried. The only thing i rly would remove is the unblockable on swipe, instant skills should not be unblockable.

Why shouldn't they be unblockable?

Because that the skill is instant is already a strong mechanic. To make that strong instant mechanic balanced the instant skill should not have big effects (like big dmg, big hard cc as stun etc.) by its own. The instant skill only should have a bigger impact when it is combined with other (not instant) skills for mightfull combos. Now combining instant skills with unblockable ability means combining 2 strong mechnics with less counter into one skill, that has a high chance of being too strong. Another reason is: Instant skills lack in animations and for that lack in every counter ability that is based on reading animations, so precasting channelskills like blocks or applied aegis by predicting an instant attack will come soon should not also disappear as counter for the opponent. It results in unblockable instants skill having remarkable less counters than other skills. When you then also add a no los ability to an instant range unblockable skill it starts to get ridiculous.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bluri.2653 said:Revert swipe back to steal or make it 900range at least please

I guess they will rather give it a cast time than this :sweat_smile: I am also curious what the trade off for Deadeye will be... Looking at already existing trade offs i assume it maybe will not be allowed to leave keep in WvW and PvP anymore or something like that. Will not add any skill ceiling to the spec but it will be unplayable. Balance issues solved, something that isn't used at all no one will complain about.

If they reverted swipe to steal and made blinding powder instant cast it would be kreygasm dp thief would be kitten amazing to play again

Yep i clearly would try that again too. The remove of the instant cast on Blinding Powder indeed still hurts, i cannot understand at all, even worse that cmc said they think about removing instant skills even further... i am genuinely worried. The only thing i rly would remove is the unblockable on swipe, instant skills should not be unblockable.

Remove unblockable and revert swipe to 1200 or even 900. That be sweet

I don't mind a higher range, 600 feels a bit clunky but yes only when unblockable gets removed.

I had a feeling it was about channeled blocks.

You said yourself you want to avoid instant skills by prediction.

I reccomend dodge.

There are plenty of loaded skills, and if instant cast by YOuR rules means it cant be unlockable too, then I disagree.

The skill has to be TRAITED to interrupt, to do damage, and to possibly do more damage if you pull off an interupt, and if you want to remove boons (aegis), you need another trait.

4 traits, for a profession mechanic limited to 600 range...to even be remotely effective....yeah instant cast and unlockable are fine.

I doubt swipe is ever going to get a range buff.

Maybe beg for 750 like smoke assault.

As it is, it's good.

So, in conclusion. I disagree with your claim.

Skills can be loaded, even if unblockable, if they have other limitations.

Not sure i understand your argumentation, what you mean with "loaded" skills? Dodge is a weak way to counter instant skills, because dodges can be baited to easy by instant skills. Ofc you also can bait blocks but these channelskills and also aegis application gives the target more time to also get distance etc. You have to time a dodge more perfect then a channelskill vs instant skills. Do you get what i mean? No clue how to describe that.

I think Anet added the unblockable as compensation for the decrease in range. In my view that made the skill clunky on one side but also unhealthy from the unblockable on the other side. I would like to see the unblockable get removed and if you think the skill then is too weak we can discuss conpensations. The one i would like to see the most is higher the range again. That would make the skill less clunky and more healthy in terms of balance of counters to it.

Yes indeed i think instant skills should not be unblockable in general. When you think swipe is too weak in its current form without that feature then i think there are ways of compensations less unhealthy. As you maybe recognised my argumentation wasn't based on how strong or weak swipe can be buffed by traits or how weak or strong it is as class mechanic aside form the unblockable-instant combo.

But maybe i can understand your argumentation better when i get what you mean with "loaded skills", until now i am fine with you disagree to me but i am not convinced that i am wrong. If i understand you right your argument for your claim that instants skill are no problem when also unblockable was only because you think swipe is too weak without it? If yes than as said, that can be adjusted in a healthier way in form of compensations, if that would be needed.

[The Ace.9105]

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Renegade is too .....too.....too late

Nah. Renegade is finehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JGMXUZEM1s

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@The Ace.9105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Renegade is too .....too.....too late

Nah. Renegade is fine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JGMXUZEM1s

More to the point, what are those keybinds

[Carnifex.3275]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

Thief still does too much damage for a sidekick.

Oh boy.... i'll just assume it's a troll post.

[The Ace.9105]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@The Ace.9105 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Renegade is too .....too.....too late

Nah. Renegade is fine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JGMXUZEM1s

More to the point, what are those keybinds

Razer naga keybinds.